Ozone Rush 6 - My first spiral dive (360) ever, goes wrong ! 

thank you for the support. I have no bad feeling here, I know I made error(s) and I am proud of it because errors lead to learnings. I guess (some) people are desperately feeling better than everyone else. But no worries, these bad comments are stimulating RU-vid algorithm a lot. I guess we can see something positive in every negative situation ;)

I do feel more secure under it than under my previous low B. Love this wing!

@@LudovicReenaers really?? Is that because it’s just newer or actually feels better to fly

@@AMJB100000000 Really! I went into bumpy +7m/s thermals last week-end and I really felt safer. Collapses were non-issues, the wing kept its way. It feels more predictable and has wayyyy less roll than my ancient PHI Tenor. Performance are better, by far. The only thing is that big ears do not self-recover, it needs pilot input. It is really an excellent wing!

@@LudovicReenaers that’s awesome! I really want this wing once I get a few more hours.. I have a buzz it also needs a pump to get the ears out, it’s no problem though. Lucky you sounds like your season has begun enjoy! 😀

@@AMJB100000000 I'll surely will :)

I bearly noticed. I only realized when watching the video. It happend so fast, i only heard the wing flapping for a second

Indeed, you are thinking correctly (in my opinion). It went a bit better at the end ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IyAtOE3P4pk.html&ab_channel=LudovicReenaers

'in real flight in a pod you should do spirals reclined and stretched'. Why? If you do a spiral, you know you are doing a spiral so why not bring your legs in? Even if it's an unintended spiral, you have plenty of time to get your legs in. Makes no sense risking twists and installing bad muscle memory. Anything dynamic, bring your legs in.

@@7up-weee Yes! Thank You! Anything dynamic with important weightshift -> legs in.

I agree with that. Feel safer than my ex five years old low B

I appreciate the fact that your comment is constructed. I'll try to answer to every aspects of your question. First of all I went for an SIV 3 years ago but it was canceled after 1 day because of the weather (only went through collapses and autorotations at that time). after that COVID and 2 years without being able to fit an other SIV in the calendar. While I think spirals are a good tool to study the way energy flows in the wing and helps to generate bigger pitch shoot (english not my mother tongue), it has not clever real life application (but for accro pilots, but that is an other story). Indeed, if you want to escape an ascending zone, wether it is around +10/12 m/s and you only need big ears and accelarator or you are in Vz > 12m/s (so under a cumulonimbus) and spirals are not enough to save you. considering the potential consequences, spirals are not clever choice (in my opinion). This to explain why this was my first spiral and I must confess, I was a bit surprised by the energy delivered!... Inducing a mind freeze. on the pod harness I guess I wanted to try (I am having both kind of harness and decided to do the SIV with the risky one.). This is the Neo Suspender and it has almost the same behaviour has a seated harness (thanks to the koroïd protection) during the SIV it did not lead to any complication even if I admit it could have been. For the wing, I used to flew a PHI tenor (low B) for the past 4 years. This wing had a lot of roll (and I mean a lot!) and comparing to the Rush 6, was way more difficult to handle. Going out of a thermal with such a pitch does not frighten me at all and would not end like the situation pictured in the video (I already handled it with no issue. Furthermore, without the energy generated by the spiral, the pitch would not be so strong.). In the video, going out of the spiral for the first time surprised me and mixed up left and right hand causing some light roll before the pitch back. It tooke me about one seconde to think about how to counter the pitch (symetrically or not)... 1 second too much with the consequence you can see. But Has you wrote, the Rush saved me by not changing direction, not inducing yaw and re-inflating properly. That is why I think the Rush 6 is adapted to my skills (so does David Eyraud) and is safer than the low B I had and that was way more sketchy. Additionaly I would mention, that I am always surprised by people evaluating the skills of a pilot by only observing 43 seconds of SIV without context... But you ask for more context, I appreciate it. Just to give you a complemntary view on the topic, this is what made a 30 years of experience pilot made with a delta 4 in the same course, later during the week : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-07ALFOj4NmU.html

Man, its a B wing!! Its there to save him and doing its job, its not a CCC wing.

@@LudovicReenaers Spirals do actually provide useful real life skills. If you find yourself in an autorotation you are basically in a spiral and you have to know how to handle it, potentially with very limited altitude, before you hit the ground. Also, knowing how to catch the pitch dive is extremely useful if you're flying in strong thermal air. Years of experience clearly doesn't matter much, as you've pointed out. What matters more is how much you've actually learned and how current you are with each maneuver. If you've been flying in calm air for 30 years not doing anything too extreme, you can't be expected to suddenly know how to do these maneuvers by yourself.

@@DrAElemayo Autorotation are actually completely different from spiral dives. So does their exits. A spiral exit can eventually lead to an autorotation, not the other way around. Flying in active air can lead to autorotation, but will no lead to spiral. spirals do not happen spontaneously. That was the sens of my comments. Famous instructor agreed ;)

Actually, the right hand brake is needed (and not sufficient here) this is called « compensation » and aims at compensating the roll (you can hear the teacher saying « à droite, à droite, a droite »). What caused the incident are two things: left input that induced more roll. I felt it and it tooke me one seconde to understand it, more than enough to avoid me to catch the dive in time…. Same analysis from the teacher

Always a pleasure, we are a community ;)

Absolutly and i forgot to swooosh at the end :D

@kemar je suis pas certain de comprendre le truc avec le démon 😅

the cause of the dive is me not catching it… because I induced too much roll Ith my left hand. This tiny bit of unforeseen roll was sufficient to freeze my brain and caused me not to catch the dive. 100% my fault

Stronger left input could have resulted in an inversion, like in a wing over. With, ptentially, worst conséquences

He induced a rapid exit to his spiral by going straight hands up. Since it was not a deep "locked in" spiral, the wing naturally pulled itself out. Since he exited quickly by going hands up the wing pulled back, far behind him into a high AOA position. This deep pendulum/high AOA put the wing close to stall. At this point as the arrow points out, he drops his left hand, inducing a partial stall. The left side of the wing is out of energy. The right side wants to surge, and he correctly puts his left hand up, allowing the left hand to surge and stall recover also. However, since the wing is alllllll the way back, it surges super hard and tosses him towards the wing. This could have been avoided by making a smoother exit from the spiral instead of going straight to hands up. If he wanted to intentionally make such a rapid exit, he needed to stay hands up and not push the wing behind him - as the arrow in the video notes. Then he needs to make a quick catch of the surge as it comes to stop the wing from going in front of him. The rush is a pretty helpful wing though and had he not dropped that left hand he probably wouldn't have surged so drastically. Even still you saw though that the wing collapsed and then caught him instead of tossing him into the rock/sock.

:D when it happened, I barely noticed... seeing the video afterward, got me a bit nervous ....

Trouser biscuit ❤️😂😂😂you got me on that one 😂😂 Actually, I barely noticed the wing flaping… later on, watching the video, the trouser biscuit finally found its way out😅

@@LudovicReenaers I'm trying to do this myself and I'm still at ground-handling so I just panicked when I watch everybody's videos that way when I'm actually flying I'll be a little bit ready to spot a problem.

@@markmcgoveran6811 please take courses, don’t do it alone by yourselves

I understand your point of view. I had a siv that was chancèles after one day(bad weather). Flew 150 jours under a low-cost b and never had any situation that was close to a 360. Anyway, my low b was way less secure / stable that my current so called high b. This is just à marketing concept. Instructors generally agree with that. It is also relates to what kind of terrain you fly.

@@LudovicReenaers fair enough. Be careful and enjoy!

@@LudovicReenaers People get bent out of shape when they hear new-ish pilots on high B's. I don't really understand it. The passive safety and how they recover from collapses on these new high end B's are ridiculously good. Anyway, that looked like a fun ride! I'm sure you learned a lot.

@@SimonHergott I agree 100%. I guess people stick to the "aspect ratio" topic. but if you can handle asymetric stall, this is not really an issue... Also people think spiral dive is the thing to learn before anything (while I would rather tend to learn autorotation first since it is more prone to happen in real life)... but have your ever heard any pilot saying : "well I was flying and then boum! spiral dive!". I never did :) ... If you really need to go down and you are not under a "cumulonimbus", spiral dive is the worst choice (considering potential consequences), while finding sink area is more clever... if you are under a cumulonimbus, well, this is sad and spiral dive won't help you (+30 m/s)... So spiral dive is very interesting to learn in order to understand wing behavior but absolutly not a milestone...

​@@LudovicReenaers The spiral dive is a basic maneuver and should always be learned first if a new pilot can. Gradually of course. A full speed auto rotation is essentially a SAT with half your wing stalled and it's more tricky to exit than a spiral dive. If a new pilot is getting themselves into full blown auto rotations then they haven't been taking the time to learn how to enter and exit a turn or spiral using proper weight shift in combination with brake. Teaching someone to deal with autorotation first seems like trying to teach someone to run before they can even walk. I flew with a new pilot once who didn't have a good grasp on weight shift. He would thermal with no weight shift, all brake, and he ended up putting himself into a rotation.. luckily he ended up in a tree and not tomatoing out on solid ground. His error could have been prevented had he been practicing how to properly engage in spirals. And once you have that dialed, then dealing with an asymmetric or unintentionally stalling out one side of the glider is pretty simple to deal with and you'll never enter a full auto rotation in the first place.

:D

Yes, it is softer. But never drop the ear while spiraling or it will be way stronger than simple spirale.

@@LudovicReenaers Oh, never thought of that, thanks for the heads up!

Well Actually,… yeah, quite a bit, I must admit. But mainly afterward, while looking at the recording. On the spot, I just heard the wing flaping….

@@LudovicReenaers you had another go at one?

@@riverrose3089 Actually, quite a few :) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GeHWO0oqmkQ.html

Yes, indeed. But there many others after that :D

I'm guessing this is a translation issue. By "first 360" I think he means first spiral descent

@@The.FlyGuy true, in French we also call that : "des trois / six" ... In English isn't it "spiral dive"?

@The Fly Guy I edited the title and the description of the video in order to comply with your comment. Do not hesitate if you spot other errors :)

Yes, that too. I also amplified the roll to the right with my left hand instead of compensating with right hand. That made me overthinking about how to correct the roll while catching the dive. It led me to catching the dive wayyyyy to late, after the frontal collapse.

@@LudovicReenaers you don't. You brake symmetrically. Yes the roll to the right was unavoidable, the huge collapse probably was (at least for part of the wing)

@@nigo1787 the cause of the dive is me not catching it… because I induced too much roll Ith my left hand. This tiny bit of unforeseen roll was sufficient to freeze my brain and caused me not to catch the dive. 100% my fault

I did not even noticed. Just eared a « Flap » then i saw the video. That’s when the poop came :)

it's not a wingover, it's just an opposite roll, which is one of the 3 ways to enter a spiral dive.

The Rush 6 won't enter a spiral like that it needs more input. If you were to pull 30cm it will only do slow 360. Have owned and been flying the Rush series since the Rush 4

My french is a bit rusty but I think the instructor said "neutral position" when the glider picked up speed. And when the pilot suddenly changed to left he said "still right!" I think it should have been a vanilla spiral.

@@NoLiability I don't think that's true. You just need to weight shift and/or pull the brake more. Once you're in the spiral, you then have to pull just enough brake to maintain the angle you want.

Thank you for the constructive comment. Now, everyone knows you are an expert. We will all learn from your experience and hopefully, one day, we will become as talented as you are🙏

@@LudovicReenaers I’m no expert ( only done about 1/2 doz ) but proper ‘ locked in ‘ dive the wing will all of a sudden drop forward on entry and you and the wing are facing almost downward and ripping around, in just one rotation you’ve lost a heap of height . The wing is highly pressurised and you really feel the ‘g ‘ forces ramming into the harness, Just saying

@@squashum778 yeah I know what it is. Check other vidéos and you ´ll notice. A clever instructor will not send you into a full spiral at the fisrt attempt, like here. One have to start somewhere.

sure, not everyone is as good as you are, sire.

@@LudovicReenaers no hard feelings bro.. be safe have fun😉🤙🤙🤙

His harness wouldn't have prevented the collapse. He was doing SIV in a harness he probably regularly flies and began the maneuver sitting upright like he should.

comments seems mitigated on that subject... To me, in this video, there is a lack of parameters to evaluate such an assertion. But it doesn't seems to stop you for judging without knowing. I guess it has to be, somehow, satisfactory to be trolling around :/

@@LudovicReenaers no there are enough parameters. it’s not about trolling, but about telling you that you should reconsider your self assessment - anyways- it’s your choice , fly safe.

@@philipv3098 if at least there was an argument… but it seems that there is none but your own self esteem. I Asked the trainer if i was under the right wing. He said that I did. But you mat be more ski les than David Eyraud. Spiral dives are not even useful maneuveurs. obviously, you don’t seem very knowledgeable on the topic.

@@LudovicReenaers ok just tried to help you man. I have been flying for 30 years. You cannot even properly exit a spiral- If you think a spiral is not useful than I cannot help you… Why do you think people here are commenting against you? They want to help you. Get down from your high horse. How long do you fly ? Ffs man …you fly a closed harness and don’t even know the basics…

@@philipv3098 In new Zealand you only Fly EN A in school. After that you are on B's. I learnt to fly on a Rush 4. The problem in this sport is people like yourself who think they know what's best for every one else. So ffs get off your high horse ya prick