I'd love to have Bob Bakker come to my home on Thanksgiving and give us a presentation on Dinosaurs and birds and whatever else came to his brilliant mind! He'd definitely get a plate and a beer.
It's crazy to see Bob Bakker and Larry Martin (RIP, he passed away on 2013) arguing whether dinos and birds are related. Today, we can't but accept the overwhelming truth that birds are dinosaurs. According to the Wikipedia page, professor Martin even worked in Dakotaraptor and Caudipteryx, proving he humbly accepted his mistake.
Dr. Martin is a really interesting study in how a scientist can be set in their ways and clinging to an old hypothesis even in the face of compelling evidence.
It's not set in his way. At that point, there truly was no link between Archaeopteryx, Deinonychus and everybody else in Maniraptora. I think the group itself didn't existed in phylogenetics at that point. Deinonychosauria was an old group weirdly shaped in the Theropoda group.
That is especially true with historian's. Today, I'm sure we still teach about Columbus discovering America and Jesus being a white middle class American. We need to start looking at things with our eyes opened.
To be fair to Martin, this video is from before the really compelling evidence from China started to be described. It was pretty well evident-archeopteryx was so similar to other dinosaurs that one of the few archeopteryx fossils we have was long confused for a compsognathus-, but it wasn’t a totally unreasonable assumption that birds may have been from a separate archosaurian lineage, since many pre-dinosaurian archosaurs had a similar bodyplan to theropods, and there was a common misunderstanding through the mid-nineties at least about the way coelurosaurian (dinosaurs like T-Rex and deinonychus) arms and wrists worked, which seemed to be different to those of birds-that idea has now been turned on its head, and it’s widely accepted that at least derived coelurosaurs like those I mentioned had shoulders and wrists that worked more like birds than not. If you want to see people who are really burying their heads in the sand, look at the people who are still arguing that birds aren’t dinosaurs in the 2010s, not the ones from the 1990s.
When two paleontologists beef, do they release diss papers on each other's work? Or do they duke it out in a dig site with their grad students forming a circle around the battle grounds while each take their turn with the mic?
Larry Martin had a theory based on the evidence at the time, it's just a shame he couldn't have backed off a bit on his stand because he was a fairly gifted and passionate paleontologist, looking back now it makes him look inflexible and lacking imagination, because he has been totally proven wrong in every conjecture he made in this program with Bob Bakker being pretty much on the money with his.
Remember too fossil evidence from places like China did not appear till the 2000's to really flesh things out. Martin for instance was right avian-dinosaurs are not directly descended from Raptors, nor Archaeopteryx. They were their own lines who shared a common Dinosaur ancestor with non avian-dinosaurs. But that there many extinct lines of avian-dinosaurs and others not considered in the direct line of avian-dinosaurs like the Opposite Birds, called Opposite due their wrist being in the opposite direction to avian-dinosaurs. So it until fossil and genetic evidence appeared and was brought together, the origin of Avian-Dinosaurs was a confusing mess.
Larry Martin was adamant in his unproven theories, which by now have almost all been dis-proven, this excellent 90's program illustrates that stubbornness to accept alternatives despite the lack of evidence for his.
Remember as Horner has said of late, it wasn't until genetics matured enough and we could look back into bird and reptile DNA. That we started discovering things that never even occurred to us before.
This doesn't have anything to do with this subject but I thought I would mention that Professor Bakker has a wonderful book called "the dinosaur heresies". I believe it was his first book to make the argument that most dinosaurs were warm blooded and actually much smarter than previous paleontologists believed. The point I'm making is that professor Bakker was always willing to challenge the status quo.
larry martin died in 2013. he thought birds evolved from longisquama in the middle and late triassic.longisquama is a small diapsid reptile in kyrgyztan. He probably share the same idea with sanker chatterjee. both assumed birds evolved from small diapsid reptile in the triassic.
They seem determined that Reptiles came first and then Dinosaurs and the rest branched off from them. Yet most Fish are not reptiles and supposedly it was effectively a fish that first climbed up out of the water onto land. As such it would then be possible for that common ancestor to have been warm blooded or at the least partially so. Reptiles and Dinosaurs would then have branched from that common ancestor and later on those creatures that eventually became Birds would have branched from the Dinosaur side. Just as Mammals eventually branched off.
No, the Deynonychus did not kill with its claw like a kick-boxer; mechanical reconstitutions have been made, showing that the claw could not even tear a pork rind; it was probably used by those filthy little bastards to maintain the prey when they bited it .
I really hope that this series could have a remake,with latest evidence and theories,as well as whole new CGI,Paleoart and animatronics to reconstruct those remarkable creatures. Other Points tha I noticed: 1. In one part Larry Martin refuted the hypothesis of raptors climbing trees. Ironically,after more researches,there are more evidence supporting them being able to climb trees. 2. Godzilla could fly,but not by flapping its arms. One could see Godzilla VS Hedorah to know how Godzilla fly.
Have this channel uploaded the episode Boneheads? (Season 3, episode 3)? If so, may I have a link? If not, will you? Thank you in advance for any answer.
You should thank the Lord that he saved the mighty dinosaurs in the form of birds. Because God is all so loving while the devil's rebillious nature should be blamed for mass extinctions throughout prehistory
You are a metalcase. If Iguanodon and Megalosaurus are dinosaurs, then all descendants of the most recent common ancestor between them are dinosaurs. And birds are among those descendants
I would like an honest to goodness reboot of the series sometime, with the new evidence we have now, as well as new cgi we could take advantage of. After all we have rebooted Cosmos.
It's amazing how, after all these years, some people in paleontology are still making claims about dinosaurs that would require bones to be broken to even begin to get them into the necessary position to do the thinks they believe they did!?
i appreciate the ideas of larry martin and bob bakker, i like their ideas when talk bout dinosaur. guys make the extension of this video call it dinos in the air part II
In my opinion, Raptors actually evolved from birds, which evolved from other therapods. The raptors have just way too many feathers to have a nonaerial cousin.
Not really. It seems that Raptors and the other avian like dinosaurs all share a therapod ancestor. So we have multiple lines of non-avian dinosaurs who would go on to evolve into bird like dinosaurs, but not directly related to avian-dinosaurs. Its why Horner likes to say the dinosaurs never really went extinct, only the great marine reptiles and pterosaurs actually died. In fact once we realized birds are species of dinosaur, did the fossil record finally make sense. In fact in the time of non-avian dinosaurs, we have never found an avian-dinosaur over 50 pounds (25kg). Which is why the avian-dinosaurs survived KT event.
Actually Larry Martin continued his opposition to the Birds are Dinosaurs hypothesis long after the discovery of feather dinosaurs, he was a talking head in PBS nova's four winged dinosaur in the mid 2000's ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-47Gv0i05tp4.html In fact later on he appears to have decided Microraptor and the Deinonychosaurs are actually flightless non dinosaurian birds.
12:35 QUOTE: the problem with the theory is its younger, its hard to be younger than your grandparents....well i got news for Dr Larry Martin im most certainly younger than my grandparents
