Panasonic GH5S vs Alexa Mini 

How about after seeing the new 4k pocket cameras that shoots RAW?

haha, this is a Panasonic sponsored channel. look at their videos dude. the gh5 didnt come anywhere near the alexa footage and it started banding even when bringing the gamma down a bit, no crazy curves. It wasn't what you saw, it was what you heard that is making you feel the way you're feeling.

@@real.estate.video. GH5 looked better.

In the end, for the average person "on RU-vid". No one's going to buy an ARRI compared to a GH5s. If you plan on buying something that huge, you wouldn't be debating on buying a GH5s. Because in almost every case, a person who is buying a ARRI camera would have a camera similar to GH5s already. So my guess is that, this video is sponsored or caters to the GH5s.

Channel 8 Yes, good catch. I'll fix next time

no big deal, we know it is

totally agree with you Obi, I don't get it with youtube, there is always someone who have something to say about " nothing " ! She is doing cool testing , period.

you are so right Obi Wan Kenobi ;-)

I stopped watching there.

Interesting comments Ross but there are a couple of things. After a couple of days of shooting with either a RED or Alexa I'm not sure I'd say they were more useable than an adapted mirrorless or DSLR camera. The size and weight of a smaller camera packages means it is sometimes the better tool for the job and thats often the reason that something like a GH5 will be selected. Built up with accessories and batteries a full production camera (about 30KG) is heavy and unwieldy and I know if I was shooting without an assistant because of budget I wouldn't choose to use one just for the sake of it. Fact is the Panasonic cameras are serious tools now often used as B or C cameras on professional productions and frankly I'm grateful that I have more options open to me as a filmmaker, its not wise to take an elitist and esoteric view of equipment. Lastly, I'm not sure why you are miffed about what camera other people use to shoot whatever it is they are shooting, surely thats their business.

Im not sure you got the gist of my post Gavin. Yes a full production camera is heavy and often you require an operator along with A/Cs with various add ons, that's my point. That's where it makes sense to have someting like an Alexa suited to that set up if you can afford it, in that sense it is far more usable for the camera crew and is far better for standing up to on set rigours of a full 40 day feature shoot etc. Not only that but used properly the codec and sensor do provide a lot more information than the GH5. Even small advantages on certain projects can make a huge difference. That's not to say the GH5 is not a serious tool, I never said that. It's a different tool, that's what I said. A different tool for a different job or a particular area of a job. Im not sure why you think my views are elitist when this was my specified point. And of course it's their business what filmmakers use to shoot on. It doesn't preclude me from being miffed, that it's their business is a given. I'm sure some have very good reasons for using an Alexa to shoot Vox pops or whatever. I also know from experience others don't, they are the elitists who want to use an Alexa because of the brand, because they think no matter what it's the best. That's why I'm miffed.

Does anyone have any examples of the alexa actually being that much better other than to say 'its much better'? I don't doubt that it is but it would be interesting to actually see a side by side comparison where you can clearly see the difference as opposed to some slight slight difference.

You could watch any of the multitude of GH5 videos on ebay then go to the cinema and watch something, more info on what shot on what here: www.indiewire.com/2018/02/oscars-best-cinematography-cameras-lenses-2018-nominees-1201929841/ The specs do tell you a lot, for a start the GH5 can't record in 12bit, the Alexa can. As I stated in the original comment you need to know how to use those bits, some people don't. Alexa has a much faster sensor readout speed so there's less "jello effect". Dynamic range is considerably better: www.cinema5d.com/panasonic-gh5-lab-test/ Like it or not we live in world where a £50k industry standard camera that the worlds most skilled cinematographers demand unsurprisingly provides considerably better image quality (at lease technically) than a £2k prosumer camera. Seems pretty logical to me. None of that has to matter however, it depends on the overall look of the picture you like balanced with what you need to do with the image afterwards in terms of flexibility. I love the way the Alexa looks, although there's a lot of applications I'd use the GH5 for over it when the Alexa look or extra info isn't necessary.

Those arent apples to apples comparisons though. The movies in the cinema have top of the line lenses lighting set design and any number of other elements to make an image look better. I know the alexa has better stats and is better overall but I'd love to someone to prove how much better the picture actually is by doing something more than saying 'a 50k better is obviously better than a 2k camera' or 'it has better dynamic range'. Yes I know it has better dynamic range, but how much better, and actually show it to me so I can decide how much better I think it is.

I would definitely say yes. The GH5s should work extremely well in the available light in your typical club. Panasonic lens with OIS is def great, but depending on what you're shooting you may want to consider getting a gimbal stabilizer like the Zhiyun crane. Most of the stabilizers at that price point are going to be adequate.

Jeremy Woods I'm sure with an actual colorist color grading the footage, they could get it closer to the colors of the Alexa. But since I wasn't testing color, I didn't do that.

Dont know if anyone cares but if you're bored like me during the covid times you can stream pretty much all the new movies and series on instaflixxer. I've been binge watching with my gf lately xD

@Bruno Joey definitely, I have been watching on InstaFlixxer for since november myself :D

@Bruno Joey definitely, have been using InstaFlixxer for since november myself :D

but you already know what would happen :))

I know the Alexa will have better skintones, but I want to see how much better. I want to see how good the GH5S is by comparing it to the benchmark for digital skintones.

People often forget that skintone is not just about color, but also about texture. That's something a LUT can't change. That being said, that's remarkably close colorwise!

Agreed. I sadly had to go with a rigged out a6500 over the GH5 because of my budget and I hate the skintones so, so much.

SONY default color is shit and slog 2 takes forever to grade but have you tried shooting in Slog 3 with cine 4? Its actually pretty good that you can use iso 200 and pretty fast to grade and skin tone is good.

Light and RU-vid compression. Pull the sharpness down and don’t overdo the internal noise reduction and you’ll be fine with ISO 2500 in most dimly lit situations. Don’t be afraid to got higher if you can’t keep the important parts of the image above 30 IRE. Noise is only bad at around 25 IRE which will be hidden the shadows anyway after you grade the image.

skidz You're going to laugh at this. The card crashed in the Alexa out there by the lake. So, I had to cancel that day of shooting. I unfortunately did not have a spare card because they were all still with my DIT from the shoot I did the day before.

Jordan Sellers I'm in V Log on the camera setting, but then I just dropped the basic 709 lut from Panasonic in Premiere in the edit

lol

I'd suggest you wait for NAB to see if BM releases something new.

Ben Corwin I'm definitely exploring other LUTs for Premiere that is better than the basic LUT application. I was just trying to do what was the standard for most people when they are using premiere on this test since this wasn't a color test at all. I'll explore color options in the future.

I would LOVE to see how V-Log can be matched to the Alexa (the elusive gold standard). If we could bridge that gap, dynamic range will be the last frontier for these smaller cameras.

When I shoot log with my GH5s I like to use the ARRI lut that comes with Davinci Resolve.

This lut looks really good so far and the creator of the lut has worked very hard to accurately match the GH5 to the Alexa. I believe he is currently updating the lut for the GH5s. emotivecolor.com

Very cool! Thanks!

Michael Foster Small rigs cage, Tilta matte box

Fallen Star Features my experience with the older gh5 has been that that 150mb codec has been more detailed than the 400mb in most situations.

Avidcomp The first fix is simply to slow down the pan. The second is to shoot at higher frame rates, but that doesn't help when you need that 24p look. And yes, RU-vid and Vimeo make the pans look a lot worse than they are.

Thanks CineGal. If you have a moment I wonder if you could take a look at a clip from a film I made for my local community. If you start at 14:20 and play through to 14:42, you'll see a slow pan across framed photographs. In terms of the shudder effect, it looks awful. I shot on a 7D. Currently my kit hasn't been unpacked since I recently moved to the UK, so for now I can't access my project to see what settings I exported the file to upload to Vimeo. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Here's a link to the film:- vimeo.com/146970236 As soon as I get up and running again, I shall get some tests done and try to resolve this hiccup.

Avidcomp I looked at your footage (very nice work BTW!) And yes, that is the problem of pans at 24 frames. Take a look at this forum. It may have the answer for you. forums.adobe.com/thread/2227076

CineGal. Thank you for those links. I'm looking forward to getting everything unboxed and up and running so I can start testing and putting these lessons into practice, Incidentally, that was my second film. Some neighbours "pounced" on me having seen my new interest developing. I bought the 7D eight months earlier and enjoyed a rapid learning curve before "some life interruptions" - normality has returned and creativity and fun beckons.

GH5s body is $2500. Arri-raw-enabled Alexa Mini is $53,480 at AbleCine, so about $50,000 more for the Arri.

I guess the little guy holds up really well then.

Yeah, that thing punches way above it's weight.

ALX MEDIA it's the Fotodiox PL adapter. You can get it on Amazon, www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B008BBI4RQ/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thank you !

TripHoney It's actually H.264 internal. Spec sheet says H.264/MPEG-4 AVC

I think this is a custom Panasonic "flavor" of H.264, because many editors (Adobe Premiere, MAGIX Vegas, etc...) had to be upgraded to be able to open and edit GH5 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 files.

Or even more. The arriraw enabled version of the Mini is over $53k at AbleCine. No way is the Arri even 2x as good an image as the GH5s, much less 20x. And once you start adding accessories, that Arri is gonna get even worse budget-wise. I'd rather have multiple GH5s cameras.

You obviously have never worked on an Arri before genji931

I don't know man. Look @9:01 and that chromatic aberration compared to the same grade on the Alexa ProRes.

"Look @9:01 and that chromatic aberration compared to the same grade on the Alexa ProRes." I'm not entirely sure whether you were joking there. Obviously chromatic aberration is caused by the lens, not the camera.

DJK83 Purple fringing can also be caused by sensor processing and UV filtering.

💪 GH5s 💪

and a7sii destroys gh5s :) Want to see the a7s mk3 in autumn :)))

Henry Zhang fascinating because it’s mft

Jakub S. The a7s doesn't destroy the gh5s by no means. Especially in the video specs department!

Not when you consider color fidelity; the a7SII loses color fidelity at higher ISOs long before the GH5s does.

I actually shot noise tests in V Log and Cine D as well. You can definitely push Cine D higher into the ISOs more so than V Log. I'll be posting those tests as well. And I'm not sure about the native dual chip being different for V Log. I think it's either 400 or 2500. Where did you get 800 and 5000 for V Log native ISOs?

CineGal I hope I was reading it correctly but over on this Panasonic site it mentions that the dual native iso switches to 800 & 5000 in both HLG or Vlog profile: www.lumixgexperience.panasonic.co.uk/news/overview-of-the-technical-features-of-the-lumix-dc-gh5s/

Jonathan Houldsworth Thanks for sharing. Yeah, I read that. That's really interesting considering that V log doesn't handle the high ISOs as well as Cine D in the noise. I wouldn't think 5000 is the native for V log in the upper ranges. But I have those higher ranges tested in footage. I just didn't present them in this video since I was only comparing to the Mini that only goes up to 3200.

Yeah it does seem strange... I just went and ran a test with lens cap on to see noise at different levels in Vlog. With ISO set to 'Low' in the menus it was cleanest at 400 then just got gradually stronger up to 1600. Then changing it to 'High' in the ISO menu setting I started at 1600 which was then equivalent of 400 in the Low setting... it then got noisier up to 3200 where it suddenly goes even cleaner than 400(low) or 1600(high), as if it's hit native or applied stronger noise reduction. It then stays almost as clean up to and including 5000, after which it gradually gets noisier again. So yeah I'm not sure what that means yet but surprising results. I didn't try the full run through with menu ISO set to 'Auto' but might try that later too.

Jonathan Houldsworth I do know that keeping it at auto is best for noise because then the camera is deciding which chip to use at the different ISO settings. I.e. if you have it set to low, then crank the ISO, you are pushing the 400 native chip rather than letting the camera switch to the 2500 chip when it's best to do so. Auto lets the camera do that for you.

nadamal It's actually from the free music selection from RU-vid!

Aaron Green They were both Zeiss super speeds, but different mm. So, it could be the one lens behaving differently. Cause yes, when I increased the saturation to full blast, we got reddish friending on the wires.

Jive Bedonia No. It doesn’t have 10bit 422 colors which is what enables you to shoot Log and shape the image the way you want. Also it’s fairly unreliable. The GH5s and the Alexa are very robust cameras.

@@VariTimo bought a gh5 and gh5s since I put up this comment haha. But thanks for this

Jive Bedonia Good Choice. The GH5s is probably the best camera for narrativ filmmaking up to the Alexa. And the GH5 is the best documentary camera up to a C300 or an Amira.

I buyed these LUTs.. AWFUL!

Roberto Miroddi Can you be more specific about what you did not like ?

have you used? simply work really bad.. only sometimes works just decently. And works better with underexposed clip, that is a stupid manner to expose a LOG...

Roberto, I am the creator of GHa. I wish I could walk through using it with you in person, to see where and how it is not working for you. It is best to expose middle gray at 40ire, or higher. Nevertheless, I am just about to release a reference grade version of the conversion, with raw footage side by sides available so everyone can confirm for themselves that the reference grade conversions are, in fact, a perfect match (Really). You will get this, for free.

Phil Brown I'd have to test the A73 to give you an honest answer

A73 = 8 bit only, so there's no comparison

Sony's 8 bit is absolutely incredible. Many comparisons with the 10 bit on the GH5 vs the sony 8 bit files is almost no difference. I don't know if it's better on the GH5s though. Sony has a great 8 bit, and Panasonic has a poor 10 bit.

There is no such thing as good or bad 8 or 10 bit. These are constants. 8 bit = 2^8 while 10 bit = 2^10. One simply has higher color resolution than the other. On top of that, Sony shoots 4:2:0 vs GH5 and GH5s shooting 4:2:2, thus you are dealing with much more color blocking in the Sony. There are other factors that may make one look better than the other, and up until the GH5s, Sony def had a cleaner noise profile. But from a strictly technical standpoint, the codec and capture method of the GH5 is far superior. I actually prefer the look of my Sony camera most of the time, and shoot a lot of my stuff Sony. But when it comes to green screen, the technical numbers matter. I've done extensive testing and the GH5 is better.

Stephan Fleet so what I am looking for out the camera is a cleaner image in higher iso like 10000 to 12000 with definition in video. I have a Gh5 and a6300, so my next camera has to be better.