Peach saying that about Luigi is where it really clicked how bad the bizarre cynisism towards Luigi was. She'd never say something like that about him, it was very out of character and almost made her feel like a mouthpiece for the script writer.
The Luigi mocking is so odd to me considering that it takes place _after_ Dream Team…y’know, the game where Luigi becomes a vital factor in saving an entire kingdom through his dreams alone. They seriously need to cut him some slack!
What I don't get is how hard they botched that joke because Paper Luigi is kinda a joke. It would of been easier to have the paper characters be rude to him in reference to their Luigi. But no, every character does it.
It's honestly such whiplash how Dream Team goes from diving deep into Luigi's character, exploring his insecurities and showing how much he loves his brother, from being the hero of the story even....to Papa Jam shitting on him non-stop.
Paper jam seems to me like a game that ran out of resources to make. I think that this game was already a warning sign in retrospect that alphadream was financially in trouble.
I think it just gripes me because Paper Jam came off of a series that propped Luigi up as being able to stand up as a Hero in his own right. He saved Mario from being poisoned, helped the baby bros when mario went missing for abit, was the one to lead the charge into battle against a Bowser who had the powers of a whole universe and dreams. Hell Luigi is hailed a Hero in the Bean Bean kingdom and called by his name by the officials and locals well before Bowser does and the Mushroom Kingdom inhabitants do as well
@@toledochristianmatthew9919 I think that woulda made more sense, that luigi never went with mario on his journeys and even became a major villain in thousand year door
@@chrange9714 The point is that both Sticker Star and Paper Jam have very uninteresting stories, but Sticker Star still does better environmental storytelling than Paper Jam.
@@rockoman100 One, neither games have uninteresting stories. They're simple yes but so is 90% of Mario games including the M&L ones. Simple doesn't equal bad. Two, Sticker Star definitely doesn't do environmental storytelling better than Paper Jam does
@@chrange9714yeah, obviously simple ≠ bad, but that's not what anyone is saying. Paper mario on the N64 had a pretty simple plot, but it had more substance to it. Bowser didn't just appear once in the intro, get peach with precisely 0 lines of dialogue from anybody, and then at the ending as the final boss, every chapter had its own little story to it and there were characters you interacted with, which made the world feel alive, and in between every chapter there were intervals where you played as peach and went around the castle while trying not to get caught. The general plot is still simple, but there's more to it, while in Sticker Star and Paper Jam there's nothing (tho I still feel like the problem is mostly worse with SS)
Flanderizing Starlow to make her hate Luigi even more is so funny to me because 1 starlow isn't in the series anymore and 2 in Smash, Solid Snake himself explains that Luigi is just as strong as Mario, and there is no way Starlow has more credibility than Snake. Now I want an M&L game with Snake.😊
@@skywardarceus I totally respect your opinion, but not many people share that opinion. I'll share mine. Sticker Star is middling at best when viewed in a bubble, and is the worst of the series when you view it after the joyous fun of the original, the peak gameplay of TTYD, and the heartwarming/wrenching story of Super Paper Mario. Sticker Star does not have the story, does not have the gameplay, and does not have the fun.
@@DoctorTex That's probably the nicest way to say that OP is objectively wrong. But I don't disagree with your notion. Sticker Star did absolutely nothing to reinvigorate the series. And unfortunately influenced the next 2 Paper Mario games after.
Imagine if the villa at Mount Birr was a Swiss chalet-themed dungeon where you had to go through all the staff areas in order to gather the staff keys to access the resort proper, and you had to explore the rooms of the hotel in order to find where the Peaches were being kept, and you had to navigate construction equipment set up to make the hotel more comfortable for Paper Bowser, culminating in a boss battle against the 3d chief of staff and head of the paper construction chief on a ski lift going up to the highest mountain where the Peaches were being kept in a lodge... ... But that would take too much time away from the player's busy schedule of repeatedly falling off bridges.
paper peach being mean toward paper luigi doesnt even make any sense i usually like paper luigi more because of this aspect, he is a completely different character especially in supet he is more anxious that coward, and he has trust problem, and can be manipulated easily through a simple self esteem boost but he is more capable than ever before, i really dont understand how can you belittle such character
Yeah Paper Luigi was one of the 4 heroes and was needed to help save the universe, I can't believe they made Paper Peach have such a low opinion of him.
Brothership already looks like it avoids almost all the issues in Paper Jam and we have exactly 1 trailer. God I'm so happy this New Soup style/Mario Mandates thing is dead.
@@Rediscool9 The trailer introduced a lot of gameplay elements that seemed to address my biggest critiques of botw, but they hardly made any substantial use of the mechanics they introduced
Now that you mention it, the amount of dread and hate of the type of “self-aware humor” that’s constantly done in this game and many other video games or movies in general, makes me feel like the game is telling me, “caring about characters and story makes you a fool”. I hope that Brothership is going to have more emotional and triumphant moments that not a joke.
@@AurumAlex64 Indeed. Maybe that’s why I like a lot of Nintendo games in general. They are sincere in the ways that no matter how absurd or silly something looks, a lot of Nintendo games do make an effort to show moments that are importantly and impactful. Also you earned yourself a sub! :3
Mario & Luigi Paper Jam and Sonic Colors shake hands at having stories that give players a reason not to play, rather than a reason for the player to care about the gameplay.
Paper Jam was released at a time where it felt like it was, well, cringe to actually feel genuine emotions Everything must be ironic, everything must be said with a glance aside to the camera and a quip and an "erm" I feel like in recent years people are realizing just how sick and tired they are of stories and writing like that And that any writing that still carries these traits let's say, is rightfully mocked Not to say it can't still be done or anything, but it's definitely been OVER-done by this point
I think it's mostly in the delivery. Thousand Year Door and Superstar Saga both had jokes about how often Peach gets kidnapped, but they didn't look at the camera and go "I guess it's THAT point in the story!"
This game could've looked so different if it was made with the previous M&L games and Super Paper Mario or Thousand-Year Door in mind. I wonder if we'll get a real crossover in the future now that both series are supposedly back on track.
The most enjoyable thing about Paper Jam (or "Paper Jam Bros.", as it is for some reason named over here) is actually, ironically enough, due to its lower quality, and that's its abundance of insane glitches. Said glitches include being able to clip out of bounds almost anywhere, being able to activate a cutscene during a load transition (which lets you move around while holding R to fast-forward, meaning you can move around at hyperspeed), or escaping a mission and then beating the final boss, causing you to be unable to return to said boss and thus bricking your file. This sheer level of brokenness (?) allows you to beat this otherwise very long-winded game in less than an hour, which I like to interpret as flipping the game off.
I think this is a pretty refreshing critique on the game, coming at it from a different angle than what I've seen before. The apathy argument is strong, and knowing the state of AlphaDream in its final years, you can see how miserable and tired a lot of the staff was by the end. I wasn't sure at first about the lengthiness of the "everyone is mean to Luigi" bit, but thinking about it more I agree it is really uncomfortable. I think its so interesting how many things feel corrupted when the makers of a game don't care. What should be a grand adventure becomes a pointless endeavor, what should be fun combat becomes a tedious slog, and yeah what should be playful roasting becomes weird and cruel when all of the goodwill is removed. The game is so resigned to everything, and hates itself for it. Its truly a haunting look at the game, what an incredible analysis.
I think Paper Jam's version of the "giant battles" was another thing that fell short. Bowser's Inside Story, Bowser literally dies from crushing then becomes giant to take revenge and put the boss in its place to debut the idea of big people fighting. Dream Team has Luigi grow with the dream powers to subdue the enemy that's otherwise terrifying him, and the touch screen's the most iconic part. Papercraft Battles... You're riding an oversized cardboard figure to bash other oversized cardboard figures. They're not any sort of threat, and I'm not aware of why they even feel the need to do this. Just like, kick a green shell on the little dudes carrying the things. There's not even any engaging controls aside from dashing and throwing your Papercraft into things, which consumes energy recharged by a rhythm minigame for some reason.
so I got a fun story that I doubt anyone else can tell y’all about this game vs dream team from a very specific pov: the differences in how certain reviewers got the games, specifically ones with kids. So for context, my dad ran a small game review blog thing, focused mostly around Nintendo products. So sometimes, he would bring me and my brothers along to special events, because yknow, kids love video games and all that. Because of this, I got to play and own both Dream Team and Paper Jam early. For the dream team event, we went to a downtown skyscraper in a nearby city, where we took an elevator to an upper floor, and entered a fantastically themed meeting room. I’m talking food, a cutout board, even a guy dressed as Mario. When we got the games, they came with Free 3Ds’s, color coded green or red, with matching special stickers you could put on the back so that when you were playing the games, you would look like you have a Mario or Luigi moustache. The people running the event were genuinely enthusiastic and everyone had a great time, and it lasted for about an hour, enough time for me to get to the dunes area iirc. Now flash forward several years to the same kind of event, but for paper jam. Again, we go into an office building and take an ever stir to an upper floor. This time, the event is taking place in another meeting room, but instead of the fun decorations or anything of that sort, it’s just a normal board room, with a few reporters milling about. We once again get the games, and they come with NEW 3Ds XL’s, but instead of the fun and interesting colourful backs, it’s boring, bland, pure black, inside the same normal box you would find at a GameStop or Walmart at the time. And instead of the moustache stickers, we got some cheaply made papercraft models we could assemble. I don’t think I actually saw any of the other people there even touch them. I don’t think I saw the guy giving out the games and 3Ds’s interact with anyone after that, and the reporters felt tired and lifeless. It also only lasted long enough for me (who was essentially speedrunning the game with my additional skill of 7 years btw) to get to the end of the plains level. so to summarize, the dream team event was fun, personal and passionate, while the paper jam event felt corporate and sterile. If that doesn’t say something about the differences between these two games, I don’t know what does. Also that second 3Ds got stolen in high school from my locker, while I still have the first one, peeling sticker and all. clearly I was much more attached to one of them, lol.
23:56 Wow, I never knew this game was so mean to Luigi, it sounds like this was written by people who make those Mario fan animations where either everyone hates Luigi, Mario and luigi hate each other or luigi hates Mario for getting all the fame. Luigi isn't a helpless, bumbling narc that Mario has to put up with, he genuinely pitches in and helps save the day, the Paper Mario series never did him like this.
A major problem, AlphaDream lost alot of their team during and after Dream Team. It explains why Paper Jam was so scaled back and nothing was constant.
8:23 Funnily enough, in the japanese version as well as some other translations of Paper Jam, they at least attempted to give the areas SOME general theming by giving them all names that all references the Paper-Doppelganger plot of Paper Jam. For example, Mt. Brrr is called "Mirror Image Mountain" in the german version and Sunbeam Plains is called "Pair Plains" in the japanese and portuguese version. So yeah, no idea what happend with the english version. Either they didn't give a fuck about the theming or they knew that give the areas themed names would save them from being generic as fuck.
The funniest thing about paper jam is that it’s named after a thing that’s annoying and wastes your time. Kinda fitting honestly. Edit: Okay never mind he made the joke I’m the video, oops.
Imagine if this game actually combined the original Paper Mario's mushroom kingdom with M&L's. There was so much damn potential in this crossover, imagine the original partners helping out in battle. We could've had Merlon, Kammy Koopa, the star spirits, literally anyone. Who was supposed to be hyped for this game if they threw away like 90% of both series' source material?
As someone who skipped this game but has been replaying Dream Team (i.e. actually finishing it because I never did back then) due to the Brothership hype, seeing what it's really like is just. Heartbreaking. It's a slog of a game with weak story *and* it's needlessly cruel? Absolutely painful. I'm glad I got recc'd this video! Here's hoping Brothership takes more cues from Dream Team to really shine (which it seems like it is!).
I looked it up, the Twinsy Tropics theme is called "波打ち際の物語" in the Japanese version, which translates to something like "The Story of the Shore". This makes me wonder just how much of the game's problem stems from translation. Were all of those jabs at Luigi in the original? Edit: The location names all seem to be themed after "look-alikes" in the original. Pair Plains, 50-50 Desert, Overlap Forest, Mount Look-alike. These were all lost in translation to English.
Thank you for sharing this. That song title makes way more sense. And so do the area names. I really don't understand what was going on with the English translation
35:50 Here you make a point about a sin of game design (and all entertainment): making the player the ass of the joke. It makes us realize a difference in ways that a piece of entertainment can make fun of its audience. Most games do this by poking fun at the players' implied personalities or beliefs. Super Paper Mario famously did such with the entire character of Francis. Francis is a creepy otaku gamer that represents the player, and the negative connotation of gamers as a whole. The jokes aimed at him are cathartic because Francis is the villain, and deserves the insults the game throws at him. Making fun of the player through Francis is making fun of the player for reasons they deserve. Because gamers do deserve to be made fun of for their stereotypical behavior. But even then, the player doesn't deserve to be made fun of just for playing the game, right? This is what happened in the two worst levels of Super Paper Mario. 2-3, the level in which Mario is put in debt and has to pay off 1,000,000 rubies by having the player hit blocks hundreds of times, and 5-3, in which archeologist Flint Cragley sends you down and makes you backtrack through a cave multiple times to find a key that he had on him the entire time. It was these levels that showed the first emergence of the Sticker Star / Paper Jam poison happened earlier than most remember. In 2-3 and 5-3 however, the game insults Mario, a character who does nothing wrong to deserve it, solely to insult the player controlling him by wasting their time. Mario has done nothing wrong other than try to help, as likewise the player has done nothing wrong other than try to have fun playing the game. It's one of few times that a game is actively mean to the player, and it's not surprising it happened again in Paper Jam.
I think making jokes at the expense of the player can be a tricky thing. Super is a great example that straddles the line often. I agree with Francis being a positive example of making fun of the player. You also bring up 5-3 in Super, but I would argue 5-1 has maybe the most egregious example, which sees you backtrack to the beginning of the stage to type "Please" multiple times to an NPC so he can give you an overly long code that you need to input in at the end of the stage. Not good.
For 2-3, if you know the pass code to the safe upstairs, then it basically invalidates the need to actually work your butt off on the mansion's power plant for 1000000 rubees.
Sticker Star is absolutely the worst of the two games in my eyes and it isn't even close, but you make a good point in that it at least has a lot more 'going on' than Paper Jam. Paper Jam is actually a pretty fun game with funny writing, it's just presented in the most boring setting and alongside the most uninteresting story they could possibly create. Sticker Star's gameplay is genuinely painful, and is only slightly redeemed with a strong presentation and a few memorable moments. I don't remember any event that took place in Paper Jam.
Personally I consider Sticker Star the more boring of the two because at least Paper Jam's combat is very solid, some argue it may be the best in the series, so Paper Jam does legit have something to go back to, as opposed to Sticker Star where the few things mentioned it has going for, they're ultimately not there the whole game, some are just lil sparks at best, and most of it isn't as interesting or exciting when actually playing them
the part where you asked if boring was worse than bad reminded me of that experiment where people were put in an empty room with nothing except a button that shocks them and people pressed the button cause pain was better than boredom
I really disagree with your assertation that the Nabbit chase in Neo Bowser Castle is an unwarranted roadblock, I'm pretty sure that it is optional but also I found it to be one of the few storytelling moments in the game that actually had soul. Him intermittently joining forces with Mario and Luigi to do his baddie bros shell attack against Bowser's enemies, and eventually transitioning from fleeing from the bros to playing with them was really cute and honestly felt like one of the best executed examples of wordless storytelling in a Mario game. I also really liked the personality that some of the Koopalings (especially Roy and Wendy) showed in their battles, exhibiting a sibling rivalry that I haven't seen in any of their other appearances. You are right one-million percent though about essentially everything else in the game being dreadfully boring. The sterility of the Mushroom Kingdom in this game is distractingly apparent. Calling the game self-deprecating is a very good way of describing it. That scene you showed on screen where the green toad is being held by the Paper Petey Piranha, and you are meant to skip his dialogue with R because he is comically long winded, left me jaw dropped at the nerve the game has to try and make that joke when it so frequently makes the player waste time getting around arbitrary road blocks and collecting paper toads, in addition to other NPCs that are similarly long winded but in an unironic way. I do also think that the game deserves some more respect for its combat though. Deckbuilding in a Mario RPG feels like a creative yet logical advancement on the badge systems in Dream Team and TTYD and it made the combat so much more enjoyable and raised the skill ceiling. I also really think that the enemy attack patterns are the best they have ever been in this series. I was grossly underleveled in this game, but the combats were still extremely engaging, which is not something I can say about Partners in Time or Superstar Saga. Those games feature boss fights that, if you went in underleveled, were very dull in their second half since the attack patterns--once you learn them--are so easy to dodge successfully that your eventual victory is already all but guaranteed, and you just have to keep throwing out the same special attacks to chip their HP down to 0. Paper Jam avoids this trap with increased character customization options, more interesting attack patterns, and the addition of Paper Mario--who fundamentally changes the way that you can dodge attacks. In all of the other games you can press A + B simultaneously to dodge basically any attack with very little thought and without being punished, but Paper Mario doesn't allow that since it is impractical to press A + B + Y simultaneously during each enemy attack, which forces you to be more engaged with each battle. I personally really value the battle systems in these games, so the excellent system and its application present in Paper Jam easily gets it to clear Dream Team in my eyes. If you value the story and worldbuilding elements more though I can totally see why you would prefer that game over this one. Great video btw! Everything is laid out and explained really well, I even brought it off my second monitor and onto my main one midway through the video because you did such a good job keeping the topic interesting.
Thanks! I will absolutely admit I have a bias in favor of story and worldbuilding over gameplay. If you give me a fun story, I'll be more than willing to slog through some uncompelling gameplay. I think my issue with the Nabbit chase is that it feels way too long. In my recording, it lasts about 27 minutes, which really feels unnecessary for what is an already overstuffed final area. But I do like the little details you pointed out, and agree with the Koopalings as well. I love the Ludwig/Larry fights. Edit: Oh, also, I forgot, they do the hold down R joke multiple times in the game; when the Toad in Peach's Castle talks about finding out the Peaches are in Mt. Brrr, he starts off: "Please listen carefully. None of this fast-forwarding business, OK?"
Yeah, Paper Jam at least got the combat very right, so there's at least something you can look forward to when playing it or going back to it, while Sticker Star, the stuff mentioned in the video sounds neat on paper, but none change the fact most of the game is either a very boring or annoying experience tbh, especially on repeated playthroughs
I played the first hour of paper jam and had to put it down. If the other games were like a hearty meal, this is one was like eating a literal sheet of paper. Sure you could do it, but why would you?
I bought Bowser’s Inside Story when it got rereleased, I had wanted to play that game more than any other Mario game growing up. I was absolutely blown away, so I immediately bought Dream Team, and following that, (even though I remembered pegging it as a stinker from the trailers,) Paper Jam. I instantly picked up on the vast emptiness and road blockiness of it all. The completely vapid storytelling. It feels like there’s nothing there. Not to mention that empty X button. I feel like Paper Luigi’s loud, sarcastic, bombastic personality would’ve been great to bounce off AlphaDream Luigi. Or maybe even a select few Paper partners to incorporate a little more Paper Mario into the battle system, and break up that roadblocky feeling in the overworld.
I do wanna say that Paper Jam did try to have a location name theme in Japanese (said being mirror images and duplicates) but it was unfortunately lost in translation. The way I see how you've framed this, Paper Jam is essentially everything Sticker Star got wrong story-wise, multiplied tenfold and pasted onto Mario and Luigi for a chronically uninteresting experience that just leaves a bitter nothing taste in one's mouth.
It really isn't, Sticker Star has has the worst plot and you know what Paper Jam didn't get wrong that Sticker Star got wrong arguably the most? The gameplay and exploration and puzzles and stuff, seriously look at Chuggaconroy's review the game feels like they were trying to make a game as tedious and boring and unfun as possible.
One thing the game got over Sticker Star is the battle system, which is what salvages the game, though barely because everything else is lackluster as heck, makes for a mediocre adventure before the fights
Huh, you're right. The only one that got really got properly localized to English was Twinsy Tropics. And I'm guessing Doop Doop Dunes was meant to be "Dupe Dupe Dunes", but a misunderstanding made it that nonsense word instead. (I doubt it was meant to be an intentional reference to Doopliss)
I still say that Paper Jam nailed the battles and enemy patterns. Don’t think any other game is as difficult in normal battles than Paper Jam from having to keep an eye on 3 characters instead of normal two.
This game would have been so much more tolerable if the Bowsers were actually doing something to the world. Imagine if instead of dropping cardboard onto the map for no reason other than to slow your progress, they were trying to terraform the Mushroom Kingdom or something. But nope, instead the game goes for the same crutch that was a trope by the time of the first Paper Mario game.
The game and characters seem to make fun of Luigi to feel better about themselves/make themselves feel cool. It really doesn't make them look cool, it makes them insecure losers. Especially Starlow.
I find it very funny that THE MOMENT the Mario and Luigi series comes into contact with Modern Paper Mario, they get their worst game yet. Paper Mario after Sticker Star was literally a poison lol
When I first played Paper Jam I thought it was too short, not in playtime, just... it felt like the story was about to finally pick up a little and then it ended. I didn't even care about how long I had been playing for, I was totally ready to go into the book and see what the "second half" had to offer, but nope, that was it. It left me sincerely unfullfilled and I haven't replayed it since. Here's to Brotherhood being Brothergood.
While I completely agree with most of your points in this video (and am SO beyond happy to see someone talking so positively about Dream Team, seriously besides the tutorial I cannot fathom the vitriol that game gets) I'm not sure if I can totally agree with calling it a worse game than Sticker Star. Normally I'm in the same camp as you, genuinely. I think being boring is worse than being bad. It's a reason that, say, I dislike Shadow the Hedgehog more than I do Sonic 06. So I completely get where you're coming from with that angle. The only problem for me is, like you said, battle wise Paper Jam is mostly sound and arguably some of the most fun mechanically in the series. So that's at least some very, very scarce moments where I can at least say I'm having some fun with it. Meanwhile, Sticker Star is actively being literally mean to the player of the game itself both in AND out of battle with the horrendous Thing sticker nonsense and some genuinely unfun but totally intentntional trolling. While Sticker Star definitely feels like it tries to have more heart in these generic Mario environments than Paper Jam ever would, that's honestly what makes it even MORE frustrating for me. With Paper Jam I at least know what I'm getting into - it's NSMB environments that are just a means to an end. Meanwhile Sticker Star feels like it's constantly reminding you that it CAN put more effort in, it CAN have more interesting things going on, but it will ultimately always fall back to the troped, safe Mario setting we have all grown numb to. That certainly isn't to say it's still better and more engaging than Paper Jam, but at least I still feel like I'm playing an RPG with Paper Jam. I'm getting experience, leveling up, earning genuine new abilities as time goes on that aren't some one time limited use resource meant to literally roadblock you. It just feels like a better game. But obviously that's just my own take. And Paper Jam is still ass, lol. Fantastic video, I'll definitely be sticking around for more and checking your other stuff. ❤
Yeah, I can definitely see that. Like I say in the video, the "being mean to the player" is definitely not a critique unique to just Paper Jam. I think maybe people got the wrong impression from this video thinking I'm, like, Sticker Star's biggest defender. I really don't think it's all that great of a game, but I have slightly more respect for it than I do Paper Jam.
Disliking either Sonic 06 or especially Shadow the Hedgehog just means you don't have anything of value to say on art in general, especially if you like Sonic Heroes, a game worse than Shadow the hedgehog in every way which also has all the same problems, yet because no one shoots a gun or drives a bike people think it's actually better somehow. I grew up on Shadow the hedgehog, and it still proudly stands as a golden standard of what a great video game should be, especially in terms of atmosphere. Don't you dare besmirch that name ever again, you utter fool. Go play Sonic Mania if actual art is too much for you. Leave it to people with refined tastes. I'm only halfway joking, maybe even less. I hate Mania, genuinely.
@AurumAlex64 I can totally see the perspective on that, I definitely never took it as you defending SS, just pointing out how it still had far more going on with it than Paper Jam at the least. Which is does, that can't be denied.
From what I've seen this game utterly fails to capture the charm of both Paper Mario and M&L and as a result ends up being a big pile of nothing. Thank god we have the TRYD remake and Brothership now.
I couldn't 100% finish Paper Jam cause of many of the reasons you listed, but I will say that the combat is still extremely good, and tied with BIS it has my favorite standard boss theme in the M&L series (Big Bang slaps so hard honestly; also the Dry Bowser secret boss is incredible!)
God, the beginning hit me hard because of how true it was. After a sudden nostalgia trip and playing Dream Team after who knows how long, jumping into Paper Jam was a whiplash, jumping from something bright, diverse, and awesome to something… dull, repeated, and… a bit less awesome. Veering off a bit, although I would often play Paper Jam at night, I would find myself yawning as well even when just traveling around the map. I feel like the reason why the Dash Socks were introduced was *because* of how more open spaced everywhere was. (Oop, I just made it to the point where he also points that out in the video but thank you for reading my ramble lol)
I feel like this game should have Paper Luigi be Mr. L the entire time as a recurring boss. It would go well against the constant Luigi bashing the game does.
While it would be cool to have Mr. L back, the problem is the context behind it, as Luigi (in Super Paper Mario) was mind-controlled to be Mr. L and a robotic god. Although it would be cool if Luigi and his paper counterpart were to team up and become evil out of revenge for being mistreated, it would go against their character.
@@CalmTrickster03 Honestly Paper Jam could have been the one moment in time where I would be fine with ignoring the canon timeline, just so we could see characters like Fawful and Dimentio interact, even though they’ve both long since died in their respective canons.
@@MySnugglePuppy The paper characters are coming from a book anyway, right? It’s not like the Dimentio pages would have all been destroyed, so we only need any contrivance for the M&L Characters. (And now you have Dimentio, so you can probably make it happen…)
I mean, the story could just have Kamek casting a spell on him that causes him to relapse. Also they should’ve had a Papercraft Brobot, it literally would’ve been perfect
I'm very glad to know it wasn't my fault for never finishing this game. I loved Bowser's Inside Story & Dream Team so much, and I wanted the new game to be good so bad that I forced myself to play through half of it before I couldn't continue
“Who, let’s face it, is… Luigi.” Wow I never thought I’d see a game where Peach actively shows resentment for one of the main duo responsible for her rescue. Ouch
An additional point on the “this game was seriously rushed and made by people who didn’t have anything else to give the series” point The glitches in this game are insane. Nearly every rock in this game has a way to clip out of bounds. Nearly every scene has at least one way to clip out of bounds which as I said is most commonly a rock for some reason, and the speedrun literally skips so much that if you use the route and mess up a specific order of buttons on mt brrr you LITERALLY CRASH THE GAME.
THANK YOU. You actually got me questioning whether I actually prefer Sticker Star over Paper Jam, and I despise Sticker Star. I still am not inclined to believe the sanitization was due to needing to reuse assets though. There are MANY examples where they had to make a brand new asset to insert a random mainline character with no prior history in the series, where they could have reused an asset from Dream Team to at least have some of M&L's original characters show up. The only case where they did this was Starlow. They weren't interested in reusing sprites of Popple even though it would've been nice to see him back. But Nabbit was worth making new sprites for. DT had basic NPC sprites for many species that could have populated the land (and no, just because it's the Mushroom Kingdom doesn't mean it has to be only Toads, heck the Brock species ORIGINATED in BIS which took place in the Mushroom Kingdom). Heck even the sprites of the main cast, who WERE in Dream Team, aren't reused from it. PJ takes place at a slightly different angle meaning they all have new sprites to fit that angle. Bowser is the most noticeable, but Mario and Luigi also are at a more frontal angle, closer to their Dream World sprites from DT but not quite that head-on. This game was not cutting corners in terms of making new sprites. It also wouldn't have been any issue at all asset-wise to reuse sprites from PM:TTYD and SPM, they use the same sprite style as Sticker Star and would only have needed to be downscaled. Why are we randomly fighting King Boo and King Bob-Omb instead of oh idk, Doopliss and the Elite Trio? Heck King Boo's segment features a lot of ghosts transforming into other characters, THAT'S DOOPLISS'S THING. And if Bowser's the main villain where the heck are his three goofball minions that DT established as recurring members of his army and are literally IN the final scene with him?! The only reason I can think of for not using them is because they'd clash with the more basic vanilla take on the Mario world, which again had no reason to be used in the first place. This isn't a crossover between NSMBWii and NSMBU with a side of miscellaneous 3D Mario characters. It's a crossover between Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario, yet it seems more interested in aiming for the former character-wise. TL;DR: They could have made this a love-letter to the legacy of both series with ample usage of their original characters, while creating LESS new character sprites than they did for this game. The 2010s was an era where it was painfully obvious the Mario IP was under tight regulation, but we didn't fully understand the nature of it until Origami King's interviews, at which point it was coming to an end anyway. They probably didn't want us knowing about the nature of the restrictions in 2015, we were already complaining enough without that knowledge. So I still think there's more to the story than the excuse they gave in that interview. DT's development simply started early enough that it got away with a lot more.
We actually know dream team started dev in 2010 as the devs said it took 3 years where as sticker star started in 2009(someome said it in the iwata asks on sticker star) I do feel the truth about paper marios oc restrictions will never fully be known as its not just dreAm team that had them and modofied stuff during the mostly generic mario time of 2011-2016. The 2 yoshi games released then also did. Toad restrictions apply to all stuff theres no denying that same with giving mario species hair or making new “king/boss” versions of them but only paper mario had the no ocs in the mario style thing going on and is still that way today as stuff like tennis aces and super rush have both ocs and modified stuff like the ice hand based on the mario 64 boss.
These are all good points, and there's probably more to the story than what these interviews have laid out, but I still do think budgetary/time constraints did play a part. Paper Jam just feels like a noticeably sloppier game than its predecessors, not just in terms of dropped storylines, but also in how glitchy the game is (See the Son of a Glitch video for some good examples). It just seems to me like development on this game didn't go as smoothly as was planned, leading to relatively unpolished game for Mario standards. I think it was just easier to slot in generic Mario mainstays like King Boo than to try and figure out how to slot in unique characters like Doopliss and Fawful in a way that made sense. But I really don't have an explanation for not reusing more from Dream Team.
The game was seemingly made in a year and a half at max as well thats less than even partners in time took to make going by how much time was between it and dream teams japansese release dates.
This game made me realise that Starlow is the most pointless character in these games now. In BIS, she had an actual reason to be there, but in everything after that, she has legitimately no reason to be there. Why is she coming along in DT? I don’t know and don’t care, but in gameplay she needs to be there to affect Luigi in the real world when you’re in the dream world, so there’s kind of a reason for her to be in this game. In this game, however, she has NO purpose throughout the entire game. She isn’t helpful, does nothing that would make her vaguely important, and the Luigi bashing, which, alongside her general personality, actively makes her unlikeable. You would’ve been better not having her here at all or just having a different partner to adventure with the bros. There is no reason for her to be here, or for her to stay a part of the franchise. Thank god she isn’t in Brothership.
You know why she's there: Because otherwise you wouldn't even be able to tell it's a Mario and Luigi game. Everything else is so bland and infuriatingly boring you're only able to tell it's a Mario and Luigi game through it's bones, which just makes it even more infuriating.
I think she was in Paper Jam, as they were only allowed her as a helper character. Original characters were restricted with this game, so they were only allowed starlow
@@sophiebubbles07. The true reason is unknown, but probably has to do with marketing and, bigger than that, merchandising. If all of your games follow a similar aesthetic and design philosophy, it makes marketing piss easy and helps sell merchandise even more. Of course, in this case, it only resulted in most of the casual market not seeing a reason to buy some of these games over others and, therefore, losing sales. (Especially for the Wii U titles like Color Splash. That game sold like 800,000 units, which is a disaster for a Mario game, and part of the reason that failed to sell is because the casual market jumped ship after how bad Sticker Star was.)
They could have made so much funnier just by making one bowser constantly trying to betray the other without both realizing that they are trying to do the same thing with one another meanwhile both bowsers Jr became closer and closer ending with the kids ditching their father's and becoming the final boss. You could even make a plot point about bowser learning to trust other or his paper self
I'll give Sticker Star this, at least I was able to finish the game. Paper Jam feels so empty in comparison. You had Decalburg, the Yoshi Sphinx, boo mansion, wiggler's poison woods. Areas that I can still remember even after years. Paper Jam just feels like Mario and Luigi on autopilot
The absence of the Bonus Points system is what ruined Paper Jam for me. The entire Mario and Luigi gameplay loop feels totally empty without it. EDIT: Jesus I forgot how mean spirited this game was lol💀💀
I heard that the devs KNEW that they couldn't make a proper paper mario and mario & luigi crossover. ...So, WHY THE FUCK DID YOU? Why not just MAKE another Mario & Luigi game!? Why shoot your new M&L game in the foot like that? People bitch and moan that the BiS remake was when the series started to decline, (even tho the remake is good) and yeah, while it didn't sell as well, I think THIS game was the start of the downfall.
Amazingly in depth video, I'd love to see you talk about Sticker Star since you seem to have a much more interesting view of it rather than just "its bad thats it"
I'm not kidding this might be the ONLY mario game I disliked so much, I couldn't even get myself to finish it. Uninspired areas, characters and the gameplay with all the toad rescuing makes this just a really bad game in my opinion. Even in games like Sticker Star I had lots of fun. Yes, there’s a lot to hate about it, but it was still paper mario at it's core with unique areas with cool concepts to go through. Paper Jam had nothing of that. A series KNOWN for it's unique areas and crazy concepts and cool characters. And worst of all, the idea of combining the paper mario world with the real mario world has SO MUCH potential, yet it flopped so hard. I'm super excited to see the series return with a banger game. Glad I got this video in my recommended :)
This has convinced me to replay partners in time. I swear, the way it handles its narrative is so underrated - the balance between humour and seriousness is perfect
Watching this video I realized something. I really like paper jam but I like it almost exclusively for its combat and that one plane ability in the overworld and didn't remember a bit of the story
8:19 Here are some ideas I have for Paper Jam location names: 1. Sunbeam Plains - Inspira Gardens (referring “inspiration”) 2. Doop Doop Dunes - Shredda Sandslide (referring to paper shredding) 3. Twinsy Tropics - Originul Waves (referring to originality) 4. Mount Brr - Wild Waxer Resort (referring to wax, the material that crayons are made of) 5. Gloomy Woods - Furnish Forest 6. Neo Bowser Castle - Bowser’s Cardboardicopia
Bowsers: WHO THE HECK IS THIS GUY!? I tried getting into the villa only to realize that you can't. WHAT WAS THE POINT OF HAVING ONE!? I didn't have a bad time replaying this but having the game break on me soured the experience.
I really appreciate the Luigi defence in this video! Luigi’s always been the butt of many jokes in this franchise, but part of the charm of it for me has always been that it is Mario AND Luigi. You normally never get the sense that either of them could succeed in the adventure without each other, and that through it all they really do love and care about one another. From little interactions to things like how they pick each other up when one gets downed in a battle it makes for some really fun and unique moments unlike what you would find in any other Mario franchise.
Thank you for this video, it pretty much puts all my thoughts about this game into words. It's disappointing that the game was budgeted as it is, though it feels like an insult that Starlow is the only M&L character to return in this game when her only role is to shoot down Luigi at almost every opportunity they interact. It's impossible for me to call this the true 5th M&L game when it breaks so many conventions of the series for the worse and has little to nothing to offer that the other games already did better. Brothership seems like a step back in the right direction, so hopefully it'll be great! That being said, I love Nabbit so I am glad whenever he appears in Paper Jam lol
Man, what a great analysis. You did an incredible job summing up all of my problems with this game. In my experience, I disliked this game for how unmemorable, repetitive, and at times unpolished it is. (It crashed during boss fights three times.) But this video has given me so much more to think about. It hates Luigi because he’s genuine is such a great way to sum up the plot, and I love how you referenced Partners in Time for its great Star Hill Segment, giving both Luigi’s more time to shine them this game ever would. I’d love to see your analysis on all the other games, especially Partners in Time, since I feel that game gets dunked on way more than it deserves, especially when compared to Paper Jam.
Yup, I love all the other Mario & Luigi games, so I will definitely be covering them at some point down the line. Partner's in Time is still great, even if it's not my favorite. Also definitely agree wit the game being unpolished. I remember on my first playthrough accidentally softlocking in Twinsy Tropics by flying the Paper airplane into some rocks that you can't move out of. It was very strange. Couple that with some of the crazy glitches you can do in the game, it's pretty clear this game was budgeted.
I feel like the comparisons to sticker star are very unneeded. You talk a lot about how sticker star has the basic ideas of a story and characters, but you don’t talk about what that game misses (Bowser and Peach not being present at all until the very end, most levels being very vapid and having nothing going on plot wise, and the frequent road blocks through thing stickers that only exist to pad the game out). Comparatively, Paper Jam actually has decent character moments and plot relevant details. The story doesn’t just take a back seat like it does in Sticker Star, you actually are reminded of your goal. Both of these games do things better than the other, and worse than the other - but both still create an unsatisfying product through different ways. I feel like it would have been far better to talk about Paper Jam in its own merits instead of comparing it to a game that has completely different problems. The way you framed this video makes it seem like your defending Sticker Star instead of actually going into the heart of what makes Paper Jam a less interesting game than other M&L titles. This is especially evident in how you barely talk about the combat, something Paper Jam does incredibly well in. It feels like you’re intentionally mostly ignoring the good parts of Paper Jam to make Sticker Star look better. I do really like the idea behind your video, as discussing the lifeless world and narrative of Paper Jam is something that deserves more attention, but I feel like you really didn’t need to compare it to Sticker Star. It just takes away from the main point you’re trying to emphasis in your video, atleast in my opinion
While I do genuinely feel Sticker Star is a better game overall, I would hardly call it a great game, or even a good one. When I praise Sticker Star for placing Royal Stickers in each world, that's really faint praise, because that's the bare minimum in terms of what the game could do. The problem is that Paper Jam doesn't even clear that bar. I think where I disagree is Paper Jam having decent character moments and plot relevant details. Sure, we see conversations between the Bowsers and Peaches and whatnot, but those are also the scenes laden with dropped plot lines, failed emotional beats, and self-deprecation. And its all in service of a story that's ultimately just a generic as Sticker Star's. So in the end, I'd argue that Sticker Star and Paper Jam's overarching story is really of comparable quality, Paper Jam just takes a few more text boxes to get there. In contrast, I really do think the Wiggler in World 3 is a better piece of storytelling than anything in Paper Jam, and PJ practically invites this comparison with its similarities in the first portion of Gloomy Woods. So I think I really only compare the two games when I think there's something that can be directly compared (and while it is true that I ignore many of Sticker Star's flaws in this video, that's only because they are, as you say, bespoke to Sticker Star, and this is not ultimately a video about that game). To be fair to myself, I do think I do a decent job hedging throughout the video. I acknowledge the often frustrating levels at 20:27, when I say "Now Sticker Star often undermines itself with the specifics of some of those levels." I acknowledge the lackluster story at 21:22, when I say "Sticker Star's level and world design adds meaning to the game where its story often falters." I acknowledge at 36:42 I talk about some of the game's positive qualities, including how it improves tutorialization from Dream Team and its "pretty excellent combat." Earlier, at 21:58, I talk about how I like how the game gives context to how we learn new overworld trio moves. And for what it's worth, I do talk at length about many of Sticker Star's very real problems in my Color Splash video (but obviously, that's a completely different video and shouldn't be prerequisite knowledge for this one). As for the combat, I didn't mention it because, honestly, it really didn't affect my opinion of the game. I think it's good, but it wasn't good enough to make me not disinterested in the game as a whole. I did attempt to do all the Expert Challenges this most recent playthrough (minus the arena bosses), and I kinda wish I hadn't. It meant that every time I encountered a new enemy, I would have to stop and spend 10 or so minutes learning their attack patterns, which made even the combat feel like a slog instead of a welcome reprieve from the rest of the game. But I recognize that was my choice to do those challenges and not something the game forced on me, so I didn't want to put that against the game. But it doesn't change the fact that once all is said and done, my takeaway from Paper Jam won't be its fun combat, it will be its lifeless world and annoying self-aware humor.
Absolutely incredible video! I feel like i had a unique experience with this game, and i felt like sharing. Back when this game came out, i was in an active mario roleplaying community. It was overwhelming characters from the Mario and Luigi games and Paper Mario. (As well as OCs, of course, but they usually existed in those universes specifically.) This was a group of probably like 100 people, who were drawing art and writing stories on the regular, just out of sheer love for these characters and worlds. We were excited for Paper Jam! There was a ton of speculation about what itd be and how cool itd be to see some paper-only characters in the Mario and Luigi sprite style. We all had high hopes to see these worlds collide, even if we didnt get a ton of specific characters showing up. (Though we all hoped they would!!!) I couldnt afford to get Paper Jam when it came out, as i was a broke college student, barely getting by. But a lot of people did. I heard exactly 3 things about the game. 1. That peach talked about dying her hair purple. 2. The scene where Paper Peach walks out of the cage. 3. The year of luigi reference. And that was IT. No new blogs popped up. No new art was drawn. Nothing. This community wildly didnt like sticker star or color splash, but characters like Huey and Kersti had blogs. People TALKED about them. Even if it was just to complain, they popped up in the conversation. Even the Starlow accounts didnt reference this game, because it was so...nothing. This was in the PEAK market for the game. The people who loved mario so much that theyd spend so muvh time and effort to exist in these worlds. To let these stories continue. To see these characters be happy and have fun. To create characters and interactions that never happened in universe. And i saw 3 things about Paper Jam. Nothing else. And i think thats a shame.
I loved how you worded everything and got your ideas across! I'm Especially a fan of calling the game a funeral march, it's very apt. I appreciate going more in depth than most videos on the game. Here's hoping with Brothership
It would've been cool if the game's plot started with Bowser kidnapping Mario in advance of his standard "take over the kingdom" plot because Mario always gets in the way and thus is trying to preempt it this time. Except it'd be Paper Bowser abducting M&L Mario, leaving the two Bowsers to come into conflict with one another, and Paper Mario and M&L Luigi can team up themselves to stop it instead. That'd rectify the problems with having the expanded party, while still easily letting both series' mechanics shine with their own character.
I can remember dream team coming out when I didn't have a 3DS and then hearing paper jam come out when I actually got one. I don't know why I didn't think about playing dream team first but I decided to get paper jam when it came out. The only real thing I remember from the game other than reusing the same enemies and designs over all from the generic Mario universe is trying to catch a lot of paper toads which was one of the most annoying things to do in the game. I'm so excited for Brothership because it actually has its own new characters once again that we have not seen in over 11 years from the series!
These issues can be seen even in the one part of this game that's widely liked, that being the battle system. Ive heard people say it's the best battle system in the series, however that's *severely* undermined by the fact the opponents have drastically less character than the bosses of prior games. In Bowser's Inside Story alone; there's a fountain gone haywire, Bowser fighting his own castle after it's taken over by another faction, a living neural network with heads that change states like a lights out puzzle when attacked (Kretin is one of my favorite bosses in that game but I digress), a parasitic grub magical girl and a rival to Bowser who fights in a cage match and later gets ice powers to mirror Bowser's fire. Even the most standard fare boss in that game, Wiggler, has an interesting twist in being a farmer. Paper Jam just has "ooo but theres two of them ooo". The regular enemies display this too, naturally. Character is one of the most important things about a boss, since it's what sets them apart from any other kind of challenge, it's their X factor. Lose that and there's a problem. Edit: Somehow, even the standard boss theme fits into my issues with the game. Sure, the second half is really good, but it's not worth slogging through the first half every loop to hear, just like how the battles aren't worth slogging through the story to experience.
ive always found the "bro" nature of mario and luigi very endearing, and by that I mean how despite many other characters dogging on luigi, mario refuses to do anything without him because he knows luigi and has faith in how capable he is, proving them wrong.
@@StoneColdBowlingBall well, what else am I supposed to call a timeline of events in that universe? I'd like to believe that universe to be "real", an immersive experience. '^^
I feel like the worst part about games like this is that it could have been good, it's missing stuff like a good overworld game play loop and story which shouldn't be that hard mainly because you hit the nail on the head 4 times already, it has good fights but that's it and it's sad.
I remember when I bought this game several years back (can't believe its been 9 years) and I always felt this sort of emptiness that I couldn't put into words (apart from "bland"). To be fair, I really do feel that blandness was a fairly universal issue with mario games in the final years of the wii u and 3ds. Paper Jam is just another one on the pile
Man, I remember playing Paper Jam and thinking it was pretty fun...then I remembered that there was nothing to look back to. We thought Sticker Star was bad? At least it TRIED in some cases. Tried and failed, yes, but still tried nonetheless. Even if Sticker Star has tons of flaws, it still felt more like an interesting adventure than...whatever nonsense this was. I think Ben Yahtzee Croshaw of Zero Punctuation/Fully Ramblomatic put it best in one of his videos: "Regular ZP viewers will know that many years back, I began supplementing my annual top 5 and bottom 5 with the blandest 5 games, as well. I started doing this because being bland is not quite the same thing as being bad, in my estimation. Bland is worse than bad. A lot worse. Sometimes, people ask me if I prefer to review good games or bad games, and frequently I reply that they’re about equally as fun. It’s the bland games, the mediocre ones, that feel like a chore. The only reason we play games (or experience any kind of art) is to make ourselves feel something, and even contempt and disgust are feelings. That being the case, the very worst thing a game can do is not provoke much feeling at all."
I can’t believe you managed to make Paper Mario: Sticker Star actually seem good by comparing Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam to it. I totally get what you’re saying, but I would still rather play Paper Jam over Sticker Star, since at least Paper Jam’s battle system is solid and not completely pointless. Still, that bit at 35:49 about the game constantly having a laugh at your expense, it reminds me of a conversation on Twitter/X about “jokes at the players expense” in Paper Mario games, stuff like General White in The Thousand-Year Door or memorizing a ridiculous long pattern in chapter 5 of Super Paper Mario. I feel like to got out of hand at some point in Paper Mario, and it sucks to see that element preserved and ever present in Paper Jam.
Edit: I forgot to explicitly say- real fantastic video! It was super well edited, you conveyed all your ideas clearly, and the camera work at the beginning was excellent. Definitely gonna check out your other stuff soon! Anyways, back to my original comment :] Fascinating video! I played this game when it came out and hated it. I felt like it'd betrayed everything I loved about BiS and Dream Team, and while I don't fully agree with that assessment anymore, you really hit the nail on the head about Paper Jam being a whole lot of nothing. I remember reaching Neo Bowser Castle and just... stopping, mostly because I didn't want to give the game the satisfaction of me finishing it. I know that's really petty, but that's the choice I made. I do disagree with your thoughts about Paper Jam being... intentionally cynical, I guess would be the words? It sure does seem that way, I just struggle to imagine that it could've been intentional in a Mario product people got paid to make. (or, if it was intentional, that it could be that pervasive across the whole game) That being said- that doesn't invalidate your feelings about it! (I mean, it wouldn't anyway, but yeah) The fact the game can be read as blatantly attempting to waste your time says... a lot. A lot. It's sad M&L's original games went out on such a whimper originally, but here's hoping Brothership hits it out of the park. It feels good to have Mario RPGs back, and I'm hopeful for the future! :)
Thanks! To be clear, I do not think the game is intentionally cynical in so far as the developers wanted to make fun of the people playing their game. But I do think the collection of self-deprecating jokes paints a pretty poor picture of the game overall. The jokes become more than the sum of its parts, so to speak.
My reccomended order Superstar Saga 3DS -> Partners in Time -> Bowser's Inside Story DS (3DS is good too, but DS is the definitive version imo) -> Dream Team. If you only play two though it should be SS3DS and Inside Story
I agree with this order as well, although I'm undecided whether or not I prefer SS over DT (though consensus seems to like Superstar Saga more, so take my opinion with a grain of salt).
I think of those four listed, Partners in Time is the only one potentially worth skipping. It's not bad, but it's not great either. I don't think SS, BiS, or DT should be skipped, as all three are fantastic. SS probably has the most well-connected and cohesive world in the whole series, and it's the only game in the series where the Bros. attacks are all based on field abilities and not on items, but it also arguably has the easiest combat of all the M&L games. Field exploration in SS is peak, with extensive segments where the bros have to split up. The 3DS remake of SS is probably the definitive version, though I don't like how it changed the swimming mechanics to allow you to swim to unlimited heights, thereby contradicting much of the level design of the underwater sections. Above ground, the remake beats the original easily.
@@Crusty783 I prefer the 3DS version of inside story just because I don’t have to destroy my lungs on that one giant battle. Also bowser jrs journey is fantastic and the best Mario story we have gotten in years
After Brothership trailer was realised, I thought since this game is no longer the finale or something that has influence on the rest of the frenchise, people were gonna come back to this game with an open mind. Turns out that this game not very high reputasion is getting even lower.
Dream team is still my favorite game in terms of gameplay , but BIS was the best in the series to me in terms of story and quality.. I don’t even think brothership can top that one.. that game is iconic and still the most compelling one.. it was done so beautifully.. I don’t think we’ll ever get an experience like that again.
just finished my 100% hard mode playthrough of dream team, and was looking to play a few more of the M&L games, as they're the only RPGs that I really enjoy. Glad to see it's getting recognition. Would love to see a whole video about it in the future.
This felt more like “40 Minutes of Roasting Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam” but it was really well informative! For the last 9 years, I knew it was an underwhelmingly mid missed potential of a game but this was the first and probably best video I’ve seen of explaining just that! Really hope Brothership fixes a lot of its previous errors so as to rinse the sourness off my mouth.
Paper Jam was one only of two games I’ve ever lost. I was not all too sad to have lost it. I also really enjoyed Sticker Star, but I think that’s largely due to the fact that it was my first Paper Mario game and thus I had no expectations about what a Paper Mario was supposed to be genre wise and with the sticker museum, interpreted the game as a sort of fun collectathon with light RPG elements, instead of a watered down rpg first. It definitely has a lot of issues but I think expectations about what it was supposed to be are a huge part of why it was hated. I think fundamentally Sticker Star is a bad *Paper Mario* game but it’s not a bad game.
funny seeing this recommended to me in the midst of a mario rpg revival, but it was definitely needed and a good watch on why this game falls flat. i hope brothership and the eventual next paper mario wont fall into these pitfalls
I feel kinda bad for introducing this wall of negativity after such a bright spot, but I've been working on this three weeks before the direct, so it was pure coincidence. I really thought Mario & Luigi wouldn't be seeing the light of day again for another 5 or so years at least.
Partners in Time did a significantly better job at combining elements between multiple Mario series. That game is pretty much a crossover with Superstar Saga and Yoshi's Island.
It's weird, do people not like Luigi more than Mario? I always thought people liked the underdog better lol. Seeing his confidence grow in Dream Team was one of that game's many highlghts
