Paper Mario TTYD is not perfect 

Too many people take "not perfect" as "bad, and you're dumb for loving it."

I love the ending cutscene, but the fact that it is unskippable is unforgivable. Every time you lose to the final boss (which will be several times because the fight is difficult), you have to sit through the whole thing over again. It really brought down the whole conclusion's pacing for me.

Backtracking wouldn't have been as tedious if the maps weren't so narrow and enemies weren't as cheap on the battlefield. It's next to impossible to avoid some of them.

It’s funny because Luigi has really cool partners and a cool story. They should make a paper Luigi game that follows the story written into TTYD

I remember thinking it actually took 3 days in real time on the train and leaving my wii on

I don’t hate TTYD, I hate all the people who scream in your face for not thinking it’s the best one in the series and can’t actually respect an opinion

1:57 EXPLAIN THE HERESY OF THAT YOSHI NAME

man this game is the epitome of replaying it and quitting at "that part" except this game has 4 "that part"s directly in a row

it has its flaws, but i still call it the best in the series.

The backtracking issue never hit quite the same for me. In Chapter 4 it makes sense to go along the trail multiple times. It is to highlight how hopeless Mario feels without his partners. They want you to run into those enemies. Then they want you to do it again with Vivian to get the hang of using her and to show her importance. Chapter 7's General White quest also has a reason. It is a sendoff to the story. You go to each area and talk to all the important side characters to reflect on your journney before taking on the X-Nauts. The game is not perfect, but hopefully my view can help others apperciate these moments.

I agree that people don't admit to the flaws in my favorite game as much as they should. That said..... you CANNOT blame the community for Sticker Star.

I hope you go back and play SPM again. It's not perfect either, but it's still really good, and perhaps you could make another video on the good and bad of that game as well.

I just recently played this game for the first time, and I completely agree. It was good, but I just don’t understand the unbridled praise it gets.

I feel like you're downplaying chapter 3 by calling it fighting with a cheesy subplot. . Chapter 3 may be small in size, but it's the characters, creative fighting, and the story/mystery build up, that causes people to fall in love with it. There's a reason why people consider it their favorite chapter.

Even though I absolutely love this game, you're right. I never really considered how much better the level design is in the first game in general. Personally I still think I like TTYD just a bit more than the first game, if only because the combat system is nearly perfected in my eyes (Stage hazard RNG bullshit aside.)

"Paper Mario is still to this day an anomaly to me personally as game series." I thought you were a person, not a game series. Ahahaha.

Yes, TTYD is not perfect. That is why I wanted to see the proper sequel of it. Better Paper Mario.

I’d love if you’d do a video on Mario and Luigi: Super Star Saga. I remember that game being such a great time.

imho, backtracking done right is the one we see in color splash. you literally hit a wall that forces you to go and explore into another direction wich will later (can be multiple hours) give you the solution to come back and explore that path again. it is adventuring puzzle done right

3:04 Wish I could have +Hot as an ability.

Finally, some one talks about this games main flaw. Still, this game is amazing even with the backtracking problem

1:58 Explain why that yoshis name is what it is. Now.

Paper Mario is one of my favorite games of all time and it’s aged so damned well

Finally, someone that shares my beliefs about the game. The game is absolutely amazing, but you hit the nail on the head with all the flaws. I can only hope that if we do get a new paper mario experience that your criticism is accounted for.

FIGHT THE PIRATE THEN HE HELPS YOU OUT Super Mario RPG did it first.

great video man I look up to your channel. Your videos are fascinating and very well thought out. Thanks for putting out good content

The reason we don't mind all the backtracking is because the environments just feel and look really nice. We enjoy them a lot and don't mind seeing them again and again.

To be fair TTYD has gotten better with every new terrible entry

Anyone else laugh out loud when they read Yoshi’s abilities?? “+Floats over gaps +Allows you to violate child labor laws via riding him like a lawnmower” lol 😂 😂 😂 😂

The game has many flaws, but poeple love it, not just for nostalgia, but it's gameplay. Thousand Year Door holds some of RPG's worst backtracking design in my opinion, but still to this day, is one of my favorite RPG games. I pretty much agree on all complains mentioned in the video, in spite of truly loving the game. I normally don't like/dislike video's, but this one gets a like from me for constructive crticism.

Just played the game for the first time ever, and OH MY GOD IS THE BACKTRACKING AWFUL!

If the game had less backtracking. It would be more enjoyable.

Oddly enough I think Paper Mario: Color Splash has the best level design, for the most part, the only minor complaint I have is when Mini Stars are placed next to each other, but most of the time those are optional and just connect the paths more, which I guess is useful to get the Shy Bandit, otherwise the Backtracking isn't very tedious since the locations are generally shorter and easier to get to, The Mountain Sage and The Surfing Key Toads that you need are right at the start fo their Level, and Justice Toad is only a tiny bit farther. The Rescue Squads are able to be collected with actually zero backtracking. Overall Color Splash has more unique levels and a more interconnected world than the other games, too bad about that battle system though..not that I hate it

the endless fetch quest i remember is maya's medicine from maplestory omfg

Bold words, personally still one of my favorite games of all time, but i can see its flaws

Unpopular opinion, but I've always preferred the first Paper Mario to the sequel. It's as if you've put my feelings into words.

The Excess Express' lack of combat was actually its strongest asset imo. The serene music combined with mystery and surreal atmosphere/final enemy were the highlight of the game to that point.

I'm actually glad to see a video that's critical of TTYD, because while I loved the first Paper Mario and I've played all the way through it a million times at this point, I just didn't like TTYD as much. To the point where I've never even finished it and basically gave up on it eventually. And I haven't even bothered with the games after that except Sticker Star, which lasted all of one play session and I haven't touched it since.

I think something to add onto the backtracking every chapter makes you do is just how bland every area in the game is in terms of level design. It's almost always just going in a straight line ("hallways with enemies"), vertical movement is severely limited in comparison to the first game (example, Flower Fields, while being my least favorite area in PM64, at least had a huge central hub to it at the beginning with multiple paths, rather than having two exits to the right and left like basically every map in TTYD). This is a problem I've always had in the last few years, and it bugs me just how quick people are too completely ignore it in favor of pretending the game has no issues. Thank you for making this video, this is something that needs to be put out there because this game, like many others, ISN'T completely flawless, and being a fan of the first game I've grown tired of its accomplishments being ignored in favor of just being grouped in with TTYD out of obligation, while endlessly singing the praises of the second game. Nobody is willing to give PM64 the credit it deserves because "it's good, but not as good as TTYD", and I'd love to see that opinion change by exposing TTYD's flaws to see them put on more even ground, and to work out what works best in both games to create a potential perfect fusion in a hypothetical sequel

As a kid, I got stuck on Chapter 6 because I didn't realize the kid wanted an autograph of the train conductor...

Paper Mario The Thousand Year Backtrack

I hold a lot of nostalgia for old RPGs on the GameCube. TTYD, Pokemon Colosseum, and Custom Robo are some of my all time favorite games. That being said, your criticism is totally valid and I appreciate you bringing to light some of the problems with the game. With all the fanfare this game gets on the internet, it's kinda hard for me to think about flaws the game has because no one else is gonna talk about them with me. I enjoyed this perspective a lot, thank you.

"Paper Mario TTYD isn't perfect" Internet: So you've chosen death Joking aside, I agree with most of your points, except everything you said about chapter 3 Chapter 3 is the best chapter, the only complaint I have about it is that it's too short

I played through TTYD somewhat recently and had a lot of the same thoughts. Great video!

May not be the perfect, but it’s still my all time favorite

some of the stage hazards, like the light box falling from the ceiling, offer a static buff to you. making it so any enemies that physically touch you get zapped and take damage. so not all of them are bad. I'd say it's more to add charm, and play on the fact you're putting on a play

The Salt Factory I found this video really interesting keep up the amazing content. I really enjoy your videos! :D

also the game sufers from stright line paths where the majoraty of the games rooms are just stright lines linking the major locations

I was mad when I saw the title, but damn it you're right.

One of my top favorite games, but all the issues you list are the reasons why it couldn't reach becoming a masterpiece

I have felt this way for a long time. I'm glad someone else has thought the same thing as me. This is way I actually prefer the original Paper Mario over TTYD

the fog doesnt affect the speedrunning community because we usually beat bosses in 1-2 turns

Someone finally acknowledged it!

I saw the title of the video and instantly, my mouth started frothing and I entered an unstoppable rage state, killing 3 and injuring dozens

I didn't even play the game, but there is something about your voice and the quality of your scripts, that makes me love all of your videos.

Playing through TTYD I always found myself wanting more of the combat and boss fights just because of how awesome and fun the battle mechanics are, so yeah the fact that the game is filled with a whole bunch of really long cutscene-heavy segments like the train and the post-chapter Peach/Bowser missions is incredibly frustrating. Definitely my biggest complaint with the game, much more so than the backtracking. Also, thank God I'm not the only one who hated those goddamn Puni bastards.

I'm glad someone like you were willing to address this issue. I have a huge issue with backtracking, specifically with the fast-travel pipes, because they make side-content so much longer than it needs to be, but people just tell me it's not that bad and I'm overreacting. Sure, they can have the opinion that the backtracking isn't that bad, but I was upset that they couldn't at least understand why I found it annoying. It's nice to see other people have the opinion that the backtracking in this game is really annoying, and not just the General White quest, which isn't even that bad when compared to other portions of the game, like you mentioned. The fast travel pipes could unlock immediately after you make it to an area, instead of when you get a new upgrade. The pipes could also appear much closer to the surface, so you don't have to go all the way down or back up when using them. Chapter 4 could've had multiple paths, each one progressively shorter than the last, leading to the Steeple, which open up as you play through the chapter. Maybe there are bridges that are out of commission and it's taking the shadow people time to fix it, once they are all turned back to normal. Chapter 5 could've had at least one branching path, closer to camp, that Bobbery goes out on before he becomes weak and needs the Chuckola Cola. The game's worlds are just simple hallways with no branching paths. The backtracking wouldn't be so bad imo, if there was more to the levels, and something to differentiate each trek through them when backtracking. But nope... it's the same portion over and over again.

This is exactly the reason why I never finished TTYD. I got close, got stuck at the end, and got distracted. Now, every time I try to return to it I just lose interest due to the weird chapter layouts. The original is my favourite in the series!

You forget the lack of suspand save during the pit.

hmm as a kid i actually liked how the ttyd partners were similar to the first game. it got me excited lol wouldve loved a shy guy partner tho. i remember hoping for one as a kid. i liked the references to the original in general as a kid actually. i liked comparing it to another game i loved.

The sole reason why I prefer PM64 over TTYD is the chapters. You just mention why I dont really like the chapters in TTYD that much.

Although I never noticed the bad stuff as a kid, I can see just from the video you're right. great video!

Honestly I think the reason so many TTYD fans hate Bug Fables so much is because deep down they know how much it bodies literally every problem the original trilogy had

This is probably the first video on this site that wasn't just "wEll eVeryThiNg elSe iS peRfeCt". All these complaints I've had with the game for years. The partner thing especially bothered me. Overall, great video on a long overdue topic.

It receives all the praise because it's the last traditional PM game. Like how SPM gets praised because it's the last game to carry the soul of the first 2.

Luigi has a blooper partner, jussayin, plus he has that funny garlic partner

I get the feeling a lot of folks only noticed that all the Paper Mario games have relatively slow pacing once they got to the later ones.

13:53 I don't think that fan feedback is responsible for the direction that modern Paper Mario went, as Kensuke Tanabe just doesn't listen to it. Also I've never heard "TTYD-Fans" praising the paper mechanics of that game. This would usually be like one of the last positive points to mention, when talking about it. Positives that fans rather express are: -Interesting, sometimes emotional story -Unique characters and designs -Strategical combat (partners, badges, superguards etc.) -Unique/Creative locations The problem is that the community has been split in two by changing the series in its core and stripping it of unique characters and the gameplay it was loved for! I can recommend watching a video called "Why Paper Mario refuses to change" for further information on the development of the series.

Maybe that was why i liked the first game more, but never really knew why

And Sticker Star is not the spawn of the devil and worse than death. PM fans really need to sort their shit out.

10:09 so we just gonna ignore what he named the yoshi kid

Love this game to death, though the backtracking in it was always slightly annoying to me. It's a great JRPG for kids.

I like Sticker Star, sorry folks.

Great video, you surely adressed its shortcomings. For anyone interested in a game like TTYD, there is an indie RPG called Bug Fables on Steam.

You're points about over hype/over praise and ignoring of flaws is how I feel about Mother 2, even though I like the game a lot.

Wait, chuckola cola? Like the one in Mario and Luigi superstar saga?

chapter 4 is actually my favorite but thats only because i absolutely love vivian and her character arc, and being forced to only use her through half of the chapter is 100% okay with me also doopliss and the twist for this chapter is pretty cool too, shit blew my mind when i was 10

i love your videos dude

I actually don't mind the backtracking. It lets me keep going back and enjoying the scenes and levels while still continuing the story.

When you made that analogy to the first game, that really made sense. There really wasnt any backtracking at all in the first game, unless you count finding the magical seeds, but if youve played the game multiple times, you just pick those up along the way. Also I love chapters 3 and 6 in ttyd, I dont think there are really any flaws to those, but id agree on the other chapters. However ttyd is still the best imo, the good outweighs the bad

Good points! I wish these things got brought up in more retrospective videos about the game, because you're definitely right. The Puni Tree and Twilight Town chapters nearly killed my replays of this game just with how tedious they get, despite still loving the game overall. I thing the love for this game mostly comes as it's an upgrade onto the original Paper Mario, where the mechanics and partners are generally the same, but with a much more interesting new world and villain than standard Mario fare. The improved writing and depth to combat really put it above the original for me. Even with the backtracking, it feels more like the version of the game I would recommend to people. Plus it's just way funnier and more entertaining, I know most people don't like text-heavy chapters but I absolutely love the murder mystery and battle arena chapters because the characters drive them so well.

Nothing is perfect, but this is really, really, really really good.

I have a special relation to The Thousand Year Door. I never played it myself but played games next to my brother when he did. Still I've always hailed it as great because I followed the story and whenever I would look over, a gem of a writing piece would make me lol. Also the world felt so rich, just from the visuals and the different characters. I think a lot of the fetch quests and backtracking are passed over as problems because all the way through, you have writing so great that a person just glancing at it can tell that it's something special.

Still back when *not perfect* is way better than anything today, from the big publishers.

Thems is bold words and I have so much respect for you for saying them

All right after playing about 25 hours of Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door, I can officially say it's more like a love-hate relationship for some people. I love the combat, the story, and the environment. It's got everything most turn-based games lack in the department of keeping a person invested. While most turn-based games try to make combat engaging normally in the end game it always turns down to just using the strongest thing and whacking the monster over and over. Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door doesn't actually do that, because sometimes the strongest attack or special isn't the most useful or viable in a current situation. And with how the gameplay works this turn-based system is the most engaging I've ever played. The environments are extremely fun to explore and I think while the hidden items may be a bit to hidden, I do like they tried to pad the back tracking with something worth exploring. I don't really pick on the back tracking personally because the GameCube discs are incredibly small, and I understand they're trying to put the most content on the small things. Yes this is a long monologue on this game from a review that's years old, but I like this game enough to point out some of its good points. The only bad points I see in the game are the fact that since it's 2dish I find myself hating the platforming and sometimes the task that gives you a way to monotonous to be fun. A good example for me personally is the puny quest line, where you have to both escort the punies while also eliminating all the enemies and solving puzzles. For me the punies always got stuck on something and I even had a bug where two punies got stuck in the cage you're supposed to release them in so I had to figure out a way to get them out which took me 2 hours of trial and error. But for playing Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door for the first time ever, I think it's a great RPG and maybe the best turn-based game I played, but I do see where some people might have some issues with some of the minor mechanics and some gameplay issues. But all in all it's in really fun game.

Finally an original opinion

Having replayed TTYD recently, it's clear more than ever that the game isn't perfect. but goddamn will it never stop being perfect to me.

I personally loved the first game (and Super Mario RPG), and liked TTYD, but I think not as much. But we have to take into account that I was a child for the first game, and a teenager for the second. So the childhood wonder wasn't there and it probably affected my experience.

i love both Paper Mario games, two of my favs of all time. also really like the spin-off on the Wii. shame they never made more Paper Mario games.

You perfectly summarized my opinion

There’s this sliding scale of gameplay and charming story between rpg, paper mario, and ttyd where the gameplay/design gets worse as the story gets better, and it’s always been weird how ttyd got all the praise despite the fact that great playing jrpgs are way fewer than jrpgs with good, charming stories. For me, the original paper mario struck the best balance between the two.

While I agree with every criticism presented in the video, all of them were things I've already heard over a decade ago when the game first came out. Nobody that I've ever talked to about these games has ever pretended that the first two Paper Mario games were perfect, the most they've said was that they were better than the three games that followed them. Since Sticker Star and Color Splash got such a negative reaction from fans, they naturally aired their grievances in public forums like RU-vid and Twitter. This overwhelming negativity and a desire for a Paper Mario game that wasn't a complete and total waste of time and resources probably led to the misunderstanding that the first two games are seen as perfect by the community. Combine that with the fact that the devs hand waved the criticism by redirecting the fans to the Mario and Luigi series and I'd say those guys have a decent reason to be frustrated. This misunderstanding has led to a plethora of RU-vid videos that spread the notion that Paper Mario fans were looking at mediocre games through rose tinted glasses further just for the sake of building this strawman that they can boldly destroy with their contrarian opinions. It's gotten old by now but the machine'll probably rev up again once another Sticker Star sequel is announced. If the entire purpose of this video was to get the point that "TTYD isn't perfect you guys." across I feel like that point was already made several times over by now. Sorry if this comment comes off as rough man, I really do like your videos but this one just came off as pointless.

Oh man the fucking cage in Boggly Woods, getting puni's caught on that has costed me at least an hour of my life. Great video, this is a true criticism of this game.

The worst part about Chapter 4. Even if you know fake Mario's real name you still have to go back and listen to the crows. as some of the letters are missing.

Thank you for this video, ever since Color Splash and Origami King everyone brings up how perfect this game is, like if its FFVII of Paper Mario. It's a good game, but its not perfect. I replayed it since a long time youtuber I follow named WoolieVS started it, and 30 hours in about to get that bastard Captain White was like "This is just a good game, not a 10/10." I love some chapters and I only use Gombella, Bobbery and the Godlike Yoshi. But the random fog, backtracking and some of the nothing Peach and Bowser levels are a glaring issue making me not like it as much as the first Paper Mario. And i played this paper mario more day 1, dropped it and started a new savefile last week.

In a way, it's kind of refreshing to look at the game's negative aspects for once. I still absolutely love the game, though.

This really drives home the reason why this game is so beloved, and I believe the answer is the characters and clever writing. Man, sucks that they NEVER go back to the one thing that made those first games so damned good........

I think one thing that highlights just how much time(backtracking) they squeeze out of each location is that TTYD chapter location is generally smaller than a Paper Mario 64 chapter location. They both have 8 chapters, but the main story of TTYD manages to be roughly 30 hours long and Paper Mario 64 roughly 20 hours.

This game isn't perfect, but I don't think anyone actually would say that and want to be taken seriously. No game is perfect.