Thanks for the kind words! 😊 I hope in a few years time every pilot has acces to a simulator at a location near them, I think that would improve learning, currency, fun and all other important aspects!
Nice to see someone else giving this a go. I am/was the developer of Parafly-Sim (also developed in Unity for VR) along with a custom hardware rig. But being the sole developer with a full-time job, I found it challenging to keep up the demand from its users. I also came to the conclusion that whilst there is a market for "some" educational experience to be had with this type of simulator, unlike fixed wing sims, it is very difficult to simulate true feeling (not just active flying) but the actual feel you get/require to paraglide safely. Hopefully you will get further than I did and have better success. :)
Hi andy, welcome to the channel and thx for the kind and extensive reply, is much appreciated! I recognize some of the struggle you speak of, this is also why we are aiming the businesses and not consumers (though we do train students with the sim, the main goal is letting the schools do that) and work with a license model. Developping is one thing, but also making a commercially viable product is a very different thing. Did you also consider going the b2b instead of b2c route?
@@Flightcoach Hi Bas, thanks for your reply. I think what you’ve achieved so far is really good, especially knowing how much work is involved. My preferred route was actually b2b, this started naturally with various schools (in uk and international) showing interest. But for the interest in receiving feedback as well as (free) cross platform and multi-hardware testing I decided to release alpha & beta versions to the public, not realising it would gain a lot of interest from general ‘gamers’ too. It was then involved in a paragliding study Matt Wilkes did at Portsmouth University which really boosted it back into the b2b route but by this time I was just so busy which meant keeping the dev up was a struggle. I tried to find another developer to come on board but had no luck. I regularly go back and play with the code but having since written a much better flight physics model (different project) I would prefer to port this over to Parafly-sim which again requires time… especially when I’m trying get out and fly!
Ah right. I think we can conclude time is the most valuable comodity out there :D We keep getting questions from potential "customers" that show it is really hard to estimate value. Like asking if they can buy the sim for 2k euro. LOL. While just the videocard that is needed to power our sim costs around that much. Estimating value can be a challenging thing for some people hehe. It seems our route so far is paying off, since two weeks we have our second operational sim now, being run by a large flightschool, our first B2B customer. I'm excited to see how we can contribute to the scene. For me this is my fulltime job, running Flightcoach. I have spent the better part of my time for two years on getting this off the ground, very happy with the way things are going. Can totally imagine if you do this in your free time, thats a struggle, respect!
@@Flightcoach yes Agreed, time has a lot to answer for. This was a particular issue with b2c, whilst I spent a lot of time on the visuals, they always wanted better but then were quick to feedback issues of decreased FPS (especially in VR). A lot just do not understand the requirements, GPU prices has now also increased the financial investment required for both b2c and b2b. But given the extra training that can be provided at a cost to the student makes it a worthwhile investment. I myself am still very much actively developing flight simulators, 3D environmental model and custom hardware interfaces (including motion). If you ever wanted help, testing or to collaborate in anyway I would love to help. I see a market for it here in the uk given the weather.
@@AndyGonzoGilbert thats so kind, might get back on that! If you are ever coming across the pond drop me a line, I'd be happy to meet up and show you our stuff!
Ok you challenged me: What does a minute of flying cost? I take my first longer flights as reference (during my license and honestly most of them I did cancel because of freezing in high altitudes/toilet issues). Excluding accommodation and travel costs, including course costs and costs for equipment and cable car I am at 2 €/min for those 2 weeks. In the future reasonable prices will cut by at least the half or a quarter of that. The simulator looks quite nice. I doubt you could learn how to center thermals without physical feedback but for training landings on small areas it's a great thing.
Hi Tobias! Well it all depends on circumstances of course but in my opinion you should count ALL the costs you make to fly. Else it is no point. An airline also counts the costs for advertising and insurances, not only fuel and pilot salaries ;) Even though we like/love flying, and we have fun on a flying trip, we make those expenses to fly. So counting from examples i see hundreds of times per year with students of different schools, a week of flying costs them on average around 1100 euro's. To be clear, this is people not living in the mountains. This is including all expenses, like equipment rental (or depreciation) fees for lessons, sleeping costs, expenses for eating, travel to and from the location, getting up the mountain etc etc) Now lets look at a beginner: In such a week, when the weather is ideal, they make around 15 flights, each lasting around 7 minutes. So that is 1100/(7*15) around 10 euro's per minute. When you fly twice as long, say you are learning to thermal, of course the costs are halved, so when you are getting into thermalling it becomes a lot cheaper. The interesting thing in this regard where the simulator really shows its value is that when you want to become better at something, you should not count the total minutes of flight time, but just the minutes in that flight learning the thing you want to improve in. If it is thermalling, you know sometimes it is really hit and miss. Did not catch the thermal? You are on the ground again and it takes you maybe an hour to get back to launch again. That 5 minutes of attempting to thermal might be the only ones you get on that day. You are correct in this version of the simulator there is no feedback, but in the next version which is almost done, we have servo force feedback. But even without it, thermalling also means positioning, flying the correct radius, correcting for wind drift and such, all concepts that can be taught/learned without that feeling in the brakes. We have helped a few dozen students improve their thermalling already, and expect to keep improving upon that with force feedback :) Thanks for your support and question!
@@Flightcoach Yes if I add the fuel cost and accommodation it’s 1-2 € more. It’s quite expensive but the freedom and experience you get back from it is priceless. In my case, I made my license 3 months prior to those 2 weeks training/flying courses. My intention was to finally fly in thermal air (at the beginner’s course they didn’t let us/we were not ready for it) and maybe just put the xc license on top. The first day we had no sun, only a short flight, the second day was more soaring than thermal uplift, but on the third day I experienced my first real thermal and why not hop to the next and next … and there I just got my first XC flight > 15 km, quite impressive. Turns out I made almost every day at least one XC flight up to 36 km and got 20 hours of airtime in 2 weeks. It even got a bit boring to always fly the same way back, so I started to try different routes. I’ve learned all those things you mentioned during those 2 weeks at least the basics of it. Understanding how wind drift or changing thermals works from the simulator would speed up that process. I can’t wait to see the next improvements of your paraglider simulator. It even might be a good training for wintertime. For me, the next step is for sure an SIV course next spring. Because now I am allowed to fly but I’m not sure if I already would say I can fly. The experience of extreme situations is still missing.
Thanks for sharing that story, sounds like you are really progressing fast! Wish you many happy xc kilometers then. And yes, during winter (down) time, some sim hours help immensely to stay current. Drop me a line if you are ever in the neighborhood and I ll happily have you as a guest in the sim :) good luck with the SIV. that was a great addition to my flying career when I did it
Thank you for this awesome intro! I definitely want to use this tool for learning. Your episode on Cloudbase Mayhem podcast was also super informative. This is now an absolute stop for me on the way to the Alps - someday... Still thinking over the Covid travel stuff - and I have asked my school/shop in Utah to look into getting one - they teach SO many pilots from all over US (Cloud 9)
Hey Walter you are most welcome, thanks for the kind words. Was a lot of fun being at the show. We are working on exporting simulators to the USA, where are you guys at? Point of the mountain? Would be great to get in touch!
@@Flightcoach this may be a resource several of our local schools could share. I am just an enthusiastic intermediate! Maybe UHGPGA club could coordinate- I will see if we can put on agenda- or you could maybe brief present on a zoom!
@@wmedlinmd sure! My email adress can be found on the about tab, would love for them to reach out. Talking to lots of schools and clubs from all over the world, hoping to help them with this innovation.
Did you think about doing a road tour? Guess there are many flight clubs and schools who couldn’t afford getting a sim but would benefit from pilots having the chance to use it. Not that Amsterdam isn’t a beautiful place but I would rather spend the four hours drive towards the alps 😂
I feel like this simulator can teach many important things and is very useful in some areas, but I feel like it would suffer in others. For example active piloting; I feel like its a very crucial skill that beginners should start to learn from the beginning, but its almost entirely based off the feel in the brakelines, on your back, and the G- forces you feel and in what direction. It makes me worry that a system like this could be counter productive for new pilots to gain these fundamental skills.
Hi Austin welcome to the channel and thanks for your great comment and involvement. Interesting point you make there, active piloting is very important skill indeed. We also have a version with force feedback, allowing you to really feel the (simulated hehe) air over the wing, via the brakelines that are then connected to servo's, this is awesome for for instance optimizing active piloting, because we can also get an actual readout on the response time of the pilot and the amount of applied (counter) pressure. I agree with your point if we put it like this: Learning to fly properly using a simulator always means alternating actual and simulated flight in an structured way. Some skills are best taught actual first and then perfected in the sim and for other skills it is vice versa. Therefore we provide a syllabus to help instructors use the simulator properly to get maximum results.
This is awesome work. I think you ought to look into modding the simulator into Microsoft Flight Simulator, so they can handle the worldbuilding, graphics, and audio, and you're just modeling the aircraft and getting the hardware right.
Thanks a lot, that is so nice to hear! We actually thought about that, but ms flightsim unfortunately is unable to handle the complex aerodynamics that go with accurate and realistic (p)pg control. The visuals of ms flightsim are freaking great of course.... but for our purposes the correct responsiveness is most important. But hey... who knows what the future holds!
@@Flightcoach Agreed that function trumps form in this case. The control apparatus you've built is incredibly exciting. Would be really fun to let family and friends try it out too.
Regarding VR: I've heard that showing hands without the arms in that kind of situation feels better because the hand positioning is accurate but not the arm.
this scenario behind you is where I learned to fly Azores! it would be awesome if I sold this software for a long time I've been using Vr . Congratulations great job.
Wow that is such a beautiful spot to learn to fly, never been there but saw it in one of JB Chandeliers videos, it is an enchanting place. Yeah VR is such an amazing technology, so happy we can now use it for paragliding too. Thanks a lot!! What do you mean you want to sell the software? Are you interested in becoming a sim operator you mean?
Ahhh ok, no we do not have a consumer version. It is a combination of hardware, software, manuals, training syllabus, instructor training, support, updates and maintenance contract and it is on rental basis
Thanks for your interest! We work with a full service franchise model, we don't sell simulators. Check out the website for more details and I'd be happy to hop on a call with you to explain more!
in our next version currently in prototype stadium we can simulate full stall, back fly, spin, helico and SAT with our acro model. This needs some finetuning still until we release it. Our goal for the moment is not to expand into SIV per se, but to investigate wether or not it is possible and would add value. We believe so but still in testing.
Hi hocke welcome to the channel! Might be in the distant future. We are providing it as a comprehensive training solution, with hardware, software, models, scenarios, training syllabus, instructor training, licenses, etc etc.
For people who can not come there in person do you have any plans to release the simulator in a VR game store like Steam? Just for the experience and not serious learning.
Hi Gaurav! That is a great question thanks for asking, our focus is on distributing this system worldwide to schools, so all pilots can go to a local club/school and fly there, get some tips/advice/lessons, that is really the strong suit of the sim in its current form. But indeed we are also thinking about if and how it would be possible to make a consumer version for those pilots that cant get enough of flying and want to do that at home too (i presume this is a loooot of people hehehehe). If you want to stay up to date on that front, sub to the channel and maybe to our newsletter via the website
Hi Rakesh! It is a great way to introduce people to flying for sure! We have different options when it comes to pricing, send us an email so we can talk further, check the about tab to find my address or check the site. Would love to continue this conversation
Hehe it is indeed way over qualified to be used as a toy. Bit like driving an F1 car on the kart track ;) but one might be coming to a school/club near you soon so you can give it a try!
How does the lack of pressure feedback impacts the learning? It feel like it's half of the piloting to me so I'm curious how it translates without this feeling.
Great question and welcome to the channel. For the top 10% of pilots worldwide i see that the lack of feedback on the brakes might be a problem, because their focus is mainly on how does stuff feel and how do i respond to that. For the other 90% of pilots it is not a problem at all, we have found after almost two years of working with the sim with all levels of pilots. Sure it would add something to the immersion, but for the vast majority goes: It is all about decisionmaking and coordination. All these things can be taught without force feedback.
@@Flightcoach this makes a lot of sense to me. As you say in other comments, it is used in combination with live flight. Active piloting is probably best learned in live flight, with the simulator covering a lot of other ground. I could see using it for basic flight control, flight optimization, thermal, flight strategy, landing approach, etc. Then go practice all of those in the sky to bring active piloting into the mix.
I believe the most important part in flying is knowing what to do when. i.e. when to fly, when not to, when to turn, where to fly. Active piloting is a very important skill but it does not take much time to learn in practice, while learning proper decisionmaking can take years and some people never get there ;) Thanks for chipping in!
Can students use their own harness? Or does the harness have to be modeled in order to work? Also, can they use risers which match their glider? Very cool!
thanks david! yes, it works with all kinds of harnesses, people usually fly in their own harness. And if you are a franchiser running one of our simulators we can fit any type of risers you'd like!
Hi Mario! We have different packages, as an example take our "landing course" currently priced at 649 euro. Usually takes students around 3 hours to get at the targeted level of proficiency, we work with a result guarantee. So if students need more hours they get em free of charge, but that rarely happens... sim training is that effective. :) If you are asking as a business/school owner please get in touch via e-mail and we'd happily get you a custom quote, we are currently taking pre-orders for worldwide shipping. Pricing depends on quite a few factors, bit much detail to go into in a comment ;) See website also for more details, love to hear from you!
My only disappointment in this is the fact it can't be used for a home setup without crazy fees and having to purchase their computer and gear. I could understand some equipment purchase requirements. I wish the best for you and your team, but I hope that some time here in the future, you could make a home model for peraonal use. I do understand that you're looking to sell as a training aid and dont want to sell out right for fear of some stealing the software and technology.
i dont know where you got that information, but it is incorrect :) we dont sell anything, we work with a franchise model, so nobody is purchasing our stuff, we provide a full service training solution for schools and clubs, hardware, software, operator training, license rights, syllabus integration, everything for a monthly fee. A fee which our schools easily earn back by selling just a few hours of training per month to their pilots/students, the rest being pure profit for them. We get the question about making a home version, but for now we dont see that working businesswise, since the production costs (without any margin) will be already way too expensive for 99% of potential home users. There are some great arcade like paragliding vr sims out there for home usage though but for now at least thats not our market. Thanks for your interest!
Thanks for the vote of confidence! Currently working hard on that, few months back we installed our second simulator at a large flightschool and currently in talks with a few schools both pg and ppg.
@@Flightcoach i found you, love your idea, you will be selling that so great, I'm a ppg pilots but i was inspired buy you guys pg pilots and your idea will sell so great with the computer and simulation, get the price and who wanna it gonna paid for sure, thanks for answer Fly Baby Fly. i had one Siv in my career i'm a new pilot 2019, i understand the safety factor. thank you so much you are doing a great job.
@@FlyBabyFlyPPG thanks for the kind words! I would like to learn to fly ppg too, seems like a great addition to pg hehe! If you are ever near Holland, let me know, come fly in the sim as my guest!
@@Flightcoach thank you for the invitation to the land of tulips, you come over west palm beach USA and we can fly together this apparatus hahahaaa, i'm type of lone wolf with so many books, this sport is Therapy for me and mix so great to a family man. your own testimony have all my respect you are simple an a clear man, I nearly died in motorcycle accident 2016 is how is discover paragliding with a motor in my back, and the fly is make by the wing the technique for a pg. with a ppg is just the take off, and all other improvements of flair without no winds at all. Fly Baby Fly (Yordankys Garcia)
OMG! West Palm Beach, I used to live close by in Fort Pierce. We are in talks with schools all over USA, I'm sure once we get a simulator going in Florida I will come help set it up. Need to check out cape Canaveral again, been 20 years since I visited. Then we can do a bit of flying too maybe :)
