PART II...What's deadlier, a .25 or .30 caliber airgun? 

I took delivery of a Hatsan Mod 130S in 30cal. I do NOT have a chronograph to shoot over for velocities but the "Sound" of the 30cal pellets striking the back of the pellet trap is FEROCIOUS!!

Ok, love the premise of the video. I love the science of it. BUT, and I hope this makes sense to many reading it, FPS for the .30 was way too low compared to the .25 cal. For some reason, we have lost love for FPS and gained so much more attention and respect for FPE (not me). WHY? Well, there can't be FPE without FPS and GRs (weight). FPE is a biproduct of FPS and FPS + GRs of a projectile will determine penetration/tissue damage. Lead dome pellets are basically solids and it take a lot to deform them to any degree. The .25 cal pellet is much narrower than the .30 cal dome. The .30 cal dome is short and stubby as opposed to long and slender like the .25 cal dome you used. As a matter of fact, they might be similar in length. So with comparable FPE #'s, the .30 is easier to stop and will do LESS tissue damage/penetration. Also, the more FPS you have, the more a bullet will deform under stress when it hits water based mass such as flesh. And FPE is calculated as FPS x FPS x Grains / 450240. So we are clear, I'm not a .30 cal fanboy by anymeans. I've always been a fan of the .25 cal moreso. I've done a ton of hunting with both. In short, i would like to see a video with both calibers being pushed to the same speed. So basically 975 fps for both, or whatever. I will add something else for all to ponder, the powder burner world does not make two different caliber guns do the same FPE. No one does that. They straight up say, .308 Winchester vs .30-06. Or .300 Win Mag vs 7mm Weatherby or .338 Lapua Mag vs .50 BMG. Reason being is that you dumb down one round to suit your argument and its not a true representation of the offerings of the "DUMBED DOWN" round.

I like to see the same tests at around 70-100 yards. I think that distance is more representative for real life situations and could give other results.

Donnie your choice of black shirt and black background looks like your head and arms are floating in air. That really helps with your telling of the speed of our moving thru space.

Thanks for the video ! This was exactly what I was looking for to make my choice.

Donnie I see you haven't posted in 8 months . I just got into pcps . Why did you stop??? This is the kinda data we need please start this up again!!!! This is an amazing. Screw the haters!!!! You should test .22 .25 .177 . Test slugs, pellets , what ever you can . I found this very informative. Thank you

Excellent presentation and testing.

Preach, Baker Airguns, Preach! Another awesome video and demonstration.

I love the smaller caliber, lighter projectile, higher velocity generally equates too more deadly videos. You are a much-needed man of science in this world. Though I do firmly believe in hydrostatic shock. As you simply put a lot of guns cannot generate the velocity needed to achieve such a violent reaction.

I'd like to know the air guns and and type of ammunition used. Also, I understand the pellets have bounced off of the pigs head (which is surprising) and that is important because when hunting you want an ethical kill, but in terms of self or home defense, I'm only concerned with stopping the threat. The US Military switched to the 5.56 caliber to change the method of use. They could carry more rounds, but they were aiming to maim or wound so their comrades would carry the wounded off the field. It takes 1-2 people to carry a wounded soldier. The .22 caliber has more homicide counts than any other caliber here in the US. Though small and under powered, the .22 is known to enter and ricochet inside a person's body. That is why, I stress which air gun, ammunition and stats are important for this test. All in all, it's a great question. Good video :) Edit: I should also add, a heavy object will keep its energy longer than a lighter object. So a pellet or slug which is heavier should be more effective at a longer distance, right?

Interesting… as I sit here with a .177, .22, .25 & .30 cal pellets lined up on my coffee table. Just watched a guy take an Elk from the back of the head at 60 yards or so with a .30 cal… dropped like a sack of potatoes! You are correct, looking at the size and weight of the .30 cal, it’s not intuitive 🤣 My .30 barrel is on order for my FX Impact Mk3 so soon I’ll know for myself! Only question I had was the difference in barrel length. The .25 was shot thru a longer barrel and more FPS vs the .30 cal was a shorter 500mm and at lower FPS? Not arguing your point… just curious if all things were equal… love to see those results as well. I guess ft lbs of energy only count on small game? Great vid!!

Great video, I love your common sense, I can relate to you in many ways, thank you!!!

I wish you would add info on FPS and rifle you are using. This info would be helpful.

Liked this video just from hearing you say what you say in the first 1:00

Thank you for this video!!!!! This series was awesome!! This topic is why I believe the next big "wave" in our hobby is gonna be high velocity .177cal heavy grain slugs. Reason I think this is because of the velocity you can achieve coupled with the penetration, it'd be like shooting needles through butter😅.

I appreciate your efforts and passion on this topic! But we cannot apply physics where it favors our arguments, and not take it physics completely in all aspects. Please let me preface my argument, that I wholeheartedly believe that any errors you may have made a simply an oversight, and not an attempt to push your point of view. You are a man of the highest integrity! 1. Ammo the penetrates 25% deeper causes 25% more damage: This point is only taking into account 1 dimension of a 3 dimensional problem. I will do some simplification so I can leave calculus in my back pocket. Let's make the assumption that both ammunitions are square. And let's assume the .25cal ammo traveled 10" into the game and destroyed only a .25cal square as it traveled through the game. the .25cal ammo will destroy .25 x 10" of flesh or 2.5 square inches of flesh. The .30cal ammo will only travel 7.5" if the .25cal ammo traveled 25% further, and it will destroy .30 x 7.5" of flesh or 2.25 square inches of flesh. 2.5" vs 2.25" of square flesh damage has the .25cal has 10% more damage over the .30cal in your test, not the 25% you alluded. If we did a linear extrapolation to an imaginary .025cal round that had 100" of penetration, do we think it will be more deadly? The answer is probably not because we are in ice picking territory. 2. There is no such thing as Stopping Power in airguns: The way airguns kill prey is by causing damage to nervous, respiratory and circulatory systems. If you shoot prey with an airgun producing 100fpe at the target that traverses completely through the animal, not all of the energy was transferred to the animal. The animal will most likely still die, as you most likely damaged the circulatory and respiratory systems, but the animal may still run away, if the skeletal and nervous systems are still in tact. The First Law Of Thermodynamics states that energy cannot be destroyed, only transferred. If a round with 100fpe on target expanded after entry so it only travels 1/3rd the way through the prey (transferring, let's say 40fpe to the prey in the process) , physics tells us that the remaining energy in the round is transferred to the animal. This is akin to a pro boxers jab. That energy transfer on prey can be enough to knock it out, just like you can be knocked out from blunt force trauma in a car accident. Hopefully these things give you a bit more to think about! I also did a video on this on my channel. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aVre4vvh1PQ.html

I like your style.... I know, that you know.... We can't count that high 🤣 I'm interested in whether the projectile mushroomed? Can we get Barnes to make some copper hollow points? Great point proven on penetration. Steered me away from .30 on a future purchase Now I'm seriously considering .22 just for ammo availability and shot count per fill. You earned my sub

The simple reason is mv^2 (where m is mass and v is velocity)... when you make the energy equal, the smaller cal is wins because the velocity needs to be increased for the smaller cal to "match" the energy of the larger cal... a faster/ smaller dia round will always penetrate more. And penetration matters more with smaller calibers because they do not have enough energy to do enough hydrostatic damage - which is what opens up a wound channel. In short, at the speeds and mass you are working with, the 25 will always win

Very interesting results. Now what about with slugs?

Great video, however I think its important for any new airgun people to undersand that yes the 25 is better to a point it depends on what your hunting and the power of your gun, a 25 max potential is lower than the max potential of a 30 cal. My concern the test is a little misleading . Kinda like telling the stronger bigger kid to take it easy so the other kids get a trophy. run the test at matching FPS and things change. . Bottom line is if your trying to chose an airgun cal for hunting always consider the full potential of the gun for the caliber not whether you can restrict it to run a test. A 30 cal will not penetrate further at the same FPE as a 25 until the 25 has to travel so fast it destabilizes . you can put a whole lot more power behind a 30 cal making much it much more deadly at the same speed and leaves the 25 taking his ball and going home.. 😮😅

A 25 goes deeper than a 30 A 22 goes deeper than a 25 A 1.77 goes deeper than a 22, 25 and a 30

Great test

It would be interesting to see what a crow magnum would do if you cut slits into the hollow point cup

Very interesting, Donnie over here in the 🇬🇧 UK the .25cal has never been a real go to calibre mainly because of its trajectory but now with some manufactures now producing lighter pellets hence cutting down trajectory , Cheers 😊

I shot a starling with a flat head 22 pellet from low power air pistol..... no penetration but killed it stone dead I believe iy overloaded the nervous system?

So would a .25 be deadlier then a .50 ?

Yet another great video. Just wondering if that also translates down to a .22 at 70 ft/lb being even deadlier than the .25? More “Penetration”?

Thank you for a very interesting video,

They need to be tested at equal velocity. The wood is already dead! 😳. I have a Marauder shooting JSB 25’s 880 and a BT65 shooting JSB 44’s at 920 and the .30 hits far harder

Can't deal with stupid! GREAT JOB BRO.

I think you're testing is flawed. A 30 caliber has larger frontal area so you can't just go off of foot pounds of energy velocity is what dictates penetration as long as the slug or pellet holds together. As an example if you could shoot a 0.25 caliber 60 grain slug it would penetrate further than a 60 grain 0.30 caliber slug going at the same speed because there's less frontal area on the 0.25 caliber. So try shooting the different calibers at the same speed and the weight of the .30 caliber slugs should be 20% heavier than the weight of the 25 caliber slug because that is the percentage difference in the size between the two calibers

So a .25 pcp is deadlier then a .30 pcp slug?

Actually the measurement is incorrect as the first pork loin was cut on an angle and the 25 caliber pellet went through one more inch of meet on the first loin. And the difference was 4 in on the second loin so the total difference would have been 5 more inches of travel for the 25 caliber pellet.

.45 and .50 next?

cool video

You're talking like you invented the .25 :). For example in Romania the airguns are speed limited by law to 220m/s. Since the Hatsan Blitz .30 develops 221m/s from factory I would rather own that over the .25 energy.

Excellent work as always brother! Thank you for the information! And don't worry brother; you're pretty....lol! Pretty smart, pretty cool, pretty funny, etc.etc. !!! Keep up the great work man!

My air rifle never groans🤣

I am a believer!

So according to this video, Is any state that allows a 30 caliber air rifle for legally taking a large game Animal, Should also allow a 25 caliber erair rifle for the taking of large game animals.

Haha. Haha. LOL. You said rational people LOL now that was funny 👍🤣👍

So bigger isn't necessarily better right ? At least that's what I keep telling my girlfriend ! Lol

My m3 is shooting 54 grain slugs with 120 fpe , I think that would beat a 25

Im always a day late and a dollar short. Just got a blitz in .30. Oh well live and learn I guess

Great information. Just really GREAT! (and... you are pretty) LOL

What were the velocities of each pellet? If both are making same energy, it would seem the .30 cal is handy capped by the lower velocity required for both to obtain equal FPE? I believe the sectional density of both projectiles are very close. The deciding factor is velocity. Redo test and run the 30 at the same velocity as the 25. My hypothesis is wound channel length will be similar if your testing was based on velocity. Your findings appear to be accurate based your parameters. Based on my understanding (I'm no expert) Hydrostatic shock is generally said to start at velocities above 2000-2200 fps. The temp wound cavity must expand greater than the tissue's ability to stretch and recover. Air gun hunting is most similar to bow hunting as cause of death will be from organ damage or loss of blood, not hydrostatic tissue damage. I've enjoyed your part 1 & part 2. Please do a part 3 and make your test based on velocity and repeat with same projectiles. I wonder how the extra PFE of the 30 will effect the test?

The moral of the story my honorable airgun friends is... increase the fpe of the .30 ? 🤔

This is with non-expanding pellets. With equal fpe, the 25 would have more velocity and less frontal area to expend it, so it makes sense that it would penetrate deeper. By limiting the 30 cal FPE to that which the 25 can attain, you are placing the 30 at a disadvantage. Max out both calibers with a mid weight expanding slug. Also if the rifle you're using isn't able to shoot 30 cal projectiles to their full potential, that is another disadvantage for the 30.

I chose the .25 caliber because it was in the middle of the range of choices. .50 caliber has far more disadvantages to be reasonable and .177 was out of the question, so it basically came down to magazine capacity and air consumption. The .25 caliber is a perfect all around size that covers all the bases and checks all of the boxes.

Great video Donnie. The question is, Did you grill and eat those loins after the test?lol

Very interesting!! I do disagree with you about the entry wound. To me the 30 looked like there was more damage but I also feel this would play into what you are saying and that the .25 retains it's energy to cause more penetration after the initial hit. Great stuff man!!

from my research it seems .25 is better close range but the .30 retains its energy at over 100yds makes me happy that my pistol carbine is .25 and my sk19 rifle is a .30 .22, .25, .30 are the calibers i use most and .25 really is the perfect blend of cheap ammo plus respectable power

Interesting video. Might be a more accurate representation if the impacts were set up at the same velocities instead fpe. That said I have taking a 240 lb wild boar at around 45 yards. I used an fx impact compact m3 with 44.75 grain .30 hybrids @ 885 fps. Great video!

This was one of cooler RU-vid videos I've seen in awhile. Educational, informative, funny, and most importantly entertaining. I love this guy doesn't take himself too seriously.

Watched both videos. They both made sense, and as a bonus .25 through .27 caliber projectiles have better ballistic coefficiancy allowing them more accuracy and range as well. Thumb up on both videos. 😎

A pigs skull is not as hard as a 1/2 oak board so im confused but i can tell you its all about fps not fpe because we are comparing 25 vs 30, not "fpe",,the test you did was what pellet penatrates deeper with same fpe. Now do a test with same fps..better yet i think ill make that video, lol, but still a good video thanks

A very interesting movie. You're right in this case. I am very curious what the situation would be like shooting with the same Slugs (JSB) at a distance similar to that used for hunting, for example 50 yards.

People underestimate the power of air guns …. They are almost self defense worthy nowadays

Ok, if I need more penetration, I wouldn't trade my 30 cal fx for a 25.....I'd switch from soft lead pellets to a pointed, harder lead slug. Realistically, who tf would pick a pellet for a 300 pound pig? Now as for .30 not more deadly on the small game it was designed for? I call bullshit all day long as this gun does far more damage at 55 ft/lbs than my .22 mag which makes 300 ft/lbs energy.

First, I appreciate your time, and love adding science to this project, but, yes there is a but.... why are you testing the .25 to its max energy level and not the .30 to its max? if we want a, what is deadlier comparison, let them stand on their own merit and max power. In science everyone knows if you put the same amount of pressure on a smaller surface it will penetrate further. Knowing this, your hypothesis is skewed in favor of the .25 because you stifled the full potential of the .30's, max capability but not the .25. Sorry, It is what it is. Laws of science, are pretty straight forward. My .25 can hit over 95 fpe with the right projectile, and rifle. my .30 however can produce over 220 fpe with the right projectile and rifle, and at that energy, it will do way more damage and effectively be more deadly than my .25. And yes I love shooting comparing then potential of everything I shoot. In a real hunting situation, it is important to match gun and ammo to game, determine your surroundings for over penetration in case of pass throughs, and as you said choosing your target and aiming properly is key. but in 63 years, shooting for 50, have found Dead is Dead. Do not take a shot you are unsure of! Practice, then practice some more, because regardless of what caliber is used, You are the Instrument as to what is deadliest! Love the Video Brother! One day, when I grow up, I just may take up making some videos myself....Keep doing what your doing!

30 cal is significantly slower then the 25 cal. The 25 cal will do more based on the velocity. Increase the fps of the 30 to be on par with the 25. You'll get different results.

Speed does make a difference! Weight and diameter makes a difference. Shape does make a difference. Minute and variable! Nice vid bro. Now get the bbq hot and bothered! Oh yeah!!!!!!!

It stands to reason, that 2 separate projectiles moving at the relative speeds necessary for both to impact with nearly identical fpe, the deeper penetration(ooooh-ahhhh) will go to the projectile that is receiving the least amount of resistance due to it’s diameter. I’m sure you would have very similar results if you compared the .22 and .25, or the .177 with the .22, at the necessary speeds to create matching fpe. I remember reading about, so I repeated it-using my Whitworth .375 and a variety of factory hunting loads, and my 75# compound bow. The experiment was, as I set it up, to stand 20yds away from a 5gal bucket filled with sand, and fire projectiles out of both weapons at the bucket and record the results. Not one of the .375 hunting rounds passed through. While every field tipped arrow that I fired, did. Regardless of the overwhelming disparities in power, every bullet performed the way that it was designed by expanding from the tip back, and effectively increasing it’s overall diameter thereby increasing the resistance. While the lowly 400, or so, grain arrow, moving at roughly 300fps, producing in the neighborhood of 70ish fps-passed through every time.

Great Video!!! As you stated. Shot placement is #1, Penetration is #2. As an air gunner, most of my shots are focused on putting a pellet in the animal’s brain. In order to do that it is imperative that you have a round that can penetrate the skull. Your video definitely proved that the .25 cal was the better choice.

What is THIS sorcery and heresy! We are going this fast in all these circles and the earth ISN'T flat!? We'd be flung off and some of us would be burned as we entered the Sun as it revolves around us! You better be quiet before you get burned at the stake lol. Now..is penetration really all that important? oooOOOOOoooooOOOOOH YES! for sure! While size certainly does matter if there is a big enough discrepancy in it, ya still have to be able to reach the sweet spot and of course shot placement is vitally important for the best results..ballistically speaking of course, What did y'all think I meant? I have numerous air rifles and among them I have both break barrel and PCP rifles in .25 cal and they are deadly! I did buy an AEA .30 cal PCP with a Dony silencer two years ago and it is also a beast. I love that rifle! I bought it because the price was right and I just really wanted it. I have not really done any real comparisons between them. I trust in and rely on you for that truthfully. Anything bigger than a coyote I hunt with my powder burner rifles anyway. GREAT video and I believe you solidly made your point. And Hell yeah you're pretty, don't let anybody telly you different!😘😉😄

It’s critically important to discuss velocity, bullet weight, and sectional density. The sectional density of a projectile is a great indicator of penetrating capability and it’s probably best to use a velocity that is typical for hunting guns for that caliber. The penetrating capabilities can vary greatly across a small range of bullet weights and velocities.

Love your video Donnie I been watching them since you were doing them in the basement in your house. You cut through the BS and show the true numbers love it!

i checked google search about hydrostatic shock juxtaposed to my view point. a search says consensus is around 2600 fps to begin generating hydrostatic shock. and so my view point is being aware of definitions of hydrostatic shock and hydrolic shock. if i was a bucher i would have tested my method on buchered pigs head first to figure how to make it work. would be interesting to use butchers air rifle and data to see if it duplicates on butchered heads. i analized this in search of power modding a 30 cal to its max fps with fpe so out side of context of 70 fpe maybe do a vid on the 30 and 25 both doing 935 pfs using the above mentioned ammo. its fun stuff

Why not compare the .35 pellet at 70 foot pound. This total bull, a .22 at 70 foot pound will als penetrate deeper as an .25. A beter test would be to schoot the .30, .25, and the .22 at the same speed of 285 m/s (935 f/s) which considered the ideal speed in Club. What about engery retention at long distance. Looks like you want to proof your own preference of the .25. Killing pigs with an air gun is also strange, when I worked in a slaughter house they where stunned with electricity than hung and pled. Cows got a spike through the head to do the same thing, they are unconscious hung and there necks are being cut. This way most of the blood is out of the karcas.

That's why time travel is IMPOSSIBLE. Since we are moving through space at incredible speeds, even if you could move through time, on the other end, a VACUUM is waiting to welcome you.

Which would you rather be shot with... a 22lr or a 45. Alternatively shoot some clay and look at the wound channel ,The .30 is bigger. When hunting shurley it's all about energy transfer.

You guys are gonna see me soon I have a law enforcement convention south of you. Afterward I'm driving up to get my rifle. I'll do a video of my first hunt with it and send you the link.

The people in these comments refuse to believe anything other than what they already believe. As someone who spent a year doing these types of tests i 100% agree penetration is the key to killing power with this types of rifles/pistols and projectiles. You will never convince the naysayers

Same fps? Same weight gr projectile ammo, then do ur squared root formula... Then shoot do the test!

Excellent demonstration ! Been an air gunner 50 + years now. The innovation and styles have come a long way. Yet, the same old debates are alive and well... Freaking awesome!🧙🏻‍♂️

If they were different caliber then they were different size holes. This is the most boring and hard to watch video ive ever seen.

Donnie, it's a great video like usually but I was wondering, how about comparing .30 and .25 with equal weight and fps. NSA has .30 43.8grain slugs as well as .25 43.5grains same metal density that would be very interesting. Considering somehow the slight difference in weight witch is 0.3grains

My dog understands the first video ...it was so well presented

Donnie, I love the video (actually all of them) however comparing two different calibers at the same FPE only proves that one caliber performed better at the fpe tested, not that it is "actually" better. This is a logical fallacy. When comparing the total surface area of the projectiles .30 has 44% more surface area than .25. This means that to make the test fair you should have taken the 70 fpe that you were shooting the .25 at and increased the fpe by 44% for the .30. 70 X 1.44 = 1.08. So basically you should have been shooting the .30 at 100 fpe for a more accurate comparison.

i agree with you on all points except you being pretty, maybe pretty scary?

Hi :-) I have been watching your great videos. I am considering buying a bolt action for backpack hunting in .25 or .30. But as a PCP newbie I need your help. I find the PCPs interesting when we talk about a distance between 50 and 100 yards, and there are plenty of videos of people doing great shots in that range and even further distances. As you must likely know .308 is the favorite caliber in use for snipers long distance shots but the other 99% of the soldiers use smaller calibers for closer combat, for this reason I think that your two great videos left an important question unanswered; at what point of reasonable longer distances does the .30 higher mass has an advantage over the .25? Does it?. It would be awesome if you could apply your same smarts to do a test at these not uncommon higher distances because there may be significant projectile behavior changes… and nobody else has done it! Thank you.

Donnie, your two part video series (Thank you!) are very accurate. I tested both a 25 and a 30 calibers in real hunting conditions. Folks that disagree, are entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. I read the comments for those fellow Air-gunners that disagree with the factual results, I say please stop licking the lead pellets, you’re losing cognitive value. Ha, Ha!

With break barrel air guns I think the lighter brain projectiles are deadlier because they reach faster velocities and penetrate deeper with similar foot-pound energy behind them but when you get the PCP again you have a lot more power in that extra energy is going to make a lot of difference from 25 to 30 caliber in my not so humble opinion

My thinking is that a .30 Cal may be preferred as it will stop sooner. It seems both will get the job done. Hitting bone will certainly change the depth. It would seem a .25 caliber may be able to take a larger animal, such as a pig or deer, perhaps with more success? Nice review! ❤ A perfect excuse to buy both!

You are pretty thanks man cool video

the earth aint spinning, just lost me BSSSSSS

Thats why the Huben K1 in .25 with 140joule (33shots/fill) is more deadly than the .30 FX dreamline 105joule and even as the unregulated AEA HPmax in .35 with an dropping peak over 200joule but under 140joules after 12shots.

what I want is speed of each pellet as it left gun

With the meat test, you shot the 3p cal on the right, and then the 25 on the left, so how are you measuring 3p on the left later on the second loin?

I'm still not convinced. Example. Seting aside a "head shot", my brother has a vintage 35 Remington carbine lever action. When using a blunt nose bullet, a deer drops where its shot. When using a pointed bullet of the same grain, the bullet passes through, and the deer keeps running. So, it's obvious "knock down power" is important. Saying that, conduct the same test at 50 yards and see if the .25 caliber pellet is the winner. And then at 100 yards. What caliber retains more energy at those distances?

I love thinking about crazy stuff like how fast we're zooming through the universe! LOL

Your comparison is dumb. The point of bigger is better is due to weight. You can't take a heavy for caliber 25 and then a average weighr caliber 30 and then also make the 30 go slower than the 25 so they have equal ft/lbs to show that all being equal the 25 is better. Yes of course it will be because of its momentum to sectional density. You need to get their sectional densities the same which means the 30 cal will need to have a heavier bullet going the same speed as a lighter weight 25cal. Then compared the damage done. This will likely mean the 30cal will have 20ft/lbs more energy, all things being equal. Then you will see the true performance of the 30cal.

Once again - excellent content Donnie. My Physics teacher was a Major in the British Army. At age 12 this main impressed on me the following example of Force over Area. He took a Plimsole and flayed my arse with it for being insubordinate. Disappointed with my expressed level of anguish. He changed tack, and used an Ebony Ruler on my thigh. Still frustrated by my less than adequate expression of remorse or apology. He then used a cane. The Plimsole left red marks. The ruler left a welt. The cane split my cheeks open. I still didn't apologise, but I learned my Physics lesson. Guess I got a head start on some folks. And to further support my real world experiences of training Load over Area. As a qualified Structural and Civil Engineer, I had to walk around my Construction Sites in Boots. As a trainee site manager, fresh out of TECH - My Supervising Project Director gave me a safety briefing Day 1. THE most important point - DO NOT RUN AROUND ON SITE! Here's the thing - I'm then 22 weigh 205lb and train 5 nights a week for three sports. Running, fast, was a competition. SO I ran on site. I ran over broken bricks, lengths of 4 x 2 . Formwork, Trench Shields, you name it - everything. That is, until the day I ran and had a nail come up through my boot and right through my left foot! I mean ALL the way through!!! Now, I'd run over hundreds of lumps of 4x2 and bricks and not one penetrated my boot. I ran onto ONE nail and it nearly ruined my sports career. My Boss - when he saw me at the First Aid Shed - took one look and walked away. LOAD on cross sectional area dictates penetrative force folks. Fell free to try this at home on yourself. For the armchair experts - place the hand you use the least on a hard flat surface then, taking your wifes rolling pin with the other hand....................

Can a .30 cal still humanly kill a hog?

Any gun you find in this two calibers, the 30 will ALWAYS have a higher FPE then the 25, but if you intentionally set them up so both artificially have the same FPE, then your results dont mean anything, they just satisfy your bias and fool the ignorant, what a ridiculous test. Plus penetration is not even telling half of the story

The FBI uses projectiles fired at the same _velocity_ and not the same kinetic energy. Your results are inconclusive at best, and deliberately disingenuous at worst. Re-do the experiment, and this time actually follow the procedures of the people you cite your testing methodology for. In the meantime, I'm going to use your video to argue to my local game warden that it's totally ethical and humane to take a deer with a Crossman 1337, since clearly .177 is far superior to .25 at 20fpe.

It's not fair to match the FPE, you should match the FPS. 1000 fps for the .25 and 1000 fps for the .30 I can assure you, the .30 will be far superior.

Hey Donnie, would a .177 have more penetration then a 22 or 25 ? Trying to find my next pcp air rifle - but I’m not convinced bigger cal equals better at all - I mean theirs videos of a 177 killing a black bear with one shot to the head - given that 177 has higher fps and straights straighter and farther, it just seems like the 177 is best for what I intend on ( small to medium game around my house ) what say you Donnie

Well, let's look at what White Muzzleloaders used to call THUMP. My .30 carnivore swings hanging cans more vigorously than ANY of my other break barrels. Gives my Marauder a good run too... I've not penetration tested on anything reliable yet, but for small game, I'm totally comfortable.

What is more deadly ? Your doubt? Or your confidence ?😂 Truth is hard to swallow in This world that offers only lies and death. You want to fit in and be accepted. Believe the lies. But truth is tough. Only few will find truth. The gate that leads to life is narrow and only few will find it. That’s because The truth is stranger than fiction . Truth is too hard for most to swallow. Beware of doubt and even more your confidence. Lean not towards your own understanding! Counter intuitive is right ! A fool will laugh and mock what they don’t understand. But wisdom searches and weighs and test truth 😂 We all fall for our own intuition. Peace