Part P - No training or qualifications needed!!

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Back in a 2014 review DCLG Select Committee chair Clive Betts MP questions the then minister Stephen Wilson MP and Bob Ledsome, director of Building Regulations and Standards over the fact that using a competent person scheme may result in an untrained and unqualified worker installing the work in peoples homes.
The select committee had a number of concerns, many of which I will be highlighting in the next few videos, including the response to the ministers ignorance with not taking their advice seriously.
This was initially just uploaded to LinkedIn and Twitter, but I have uploaded it here on request.

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9 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 29

@rickybee4537 6 лет назад

From all this the question is how many years do you need under your belt to be tagged "qualified"? I think more than anything there also has to be recognition for people who have experience and years of it but haven't got "qualifications". I know of and I was one of those people who work under company umbrellas and when the company went I and many other colleagues had shit loads of experience and no qualification as we were company trained and worked under that status. So should we or an electrical engineer go to college for three years and do an apprenticeship? I do agree that everyone should be trained and have some form of "qualifications", nobody should spend three years trying to memorize the Building Regulation Booklet etc. etc they will not make you fit for site a perfect classroom layout is nothing like a disgusting loft or crumpling plaster, tiles floors, etc. etc. . These materials should be consulted and interpreted correctly and as to interpretation that is a whole new ball game. Experience and qualification in my honest opinion comes with getting your hands dirty and getting tripped up so a classroom can never give anyone all the scenarios. Even when you are qualified through city and guild 7671 route you will find something in the real world that makes you swear and call someone an A**hole.

@peter-e2q Год назад

Completely agree with you. It irritates me also that interview panels tend to rely more on pieces of paper that say ‘this person is clever’ than actual experience. The people I once worked for, took on a computer technician (80s era) because he had two degrees from the Allen University. He was asked to strip down, clean, reassemble, and reinstall… a computer cooling fan. Stripped and cleaned it, could not reassemble it!!! No practical experience.

@peter-e2q Год назад

Pointless point!!! I have no qualifications in electrical works other than 50 years understanding. However, if I, as a handyman, installed electrical cabling/equipment, it would not be legal unless and until passed by a qualified and authorised person. His inspection will determine whether I did it correctly, or failed to do so. In which case, he would reject my work and the customer would not have to pay. Surely, work undertaken within the scheme, can never be accepted unless fit for purpose, regardless of who did the work. A good DIYer or handyman, or a qualified electrician, can ALL make mistakes. This mp is a knob.

@JURASSICDIVERUK 6 лет назад

This is absolutely a classic especially at the very end! 😀

@simongreenidge6454 6 лет назад

On one end of the spectrum is the "fully qualified" electrician who has completed a couple of years on an Electrical Installation college course and then done their 3 to 5 years of on-the-job training and then passed their "AM2" exam. At the other end of the spectrum is the domestic installer with no more electrical training than a 5-day course to get their "Part P". Surely there is a need for a decent intermediate level (sitting somewhere below the AM2 and well above the current Part P) that comprehensively prepares an individual to be a domestic-only electrician? The current traditional belt 'n braces approach to becoming an "everything" electrician seems to be overkill for anyone only interested in domestic electrics.

@SparkyNinja 6 лет назад

Hi Simon, City and Guilds did try to square this circle with the introduction of the 2397 - which is a domestic scope NVQ Level 3. It was introduced as the formal solution and recognition from C&G that domestic scope electrical installers exist, prior to this they had never introduced domestically targeted training, maybe the 2392 if anything. Unfortunatley the uptake on this new NVQ qualification was low as the competent person schemes were the obstacle to industry for these new entrants, it wasn't qualifications - it was recognition and membership with these schemes. So the schemes overrules the training sector by continuing to offer membership to Part P trained individuals and some of them (Napit) still provide 5 day training packages. They have taken their role given to them of assessing competence and have twisted it so that they now determine competence.

@andyb9548 Год назад

The laughable situation where OND qualified electricians, 4 years apprenticeship, 15 years in industry on ships, oil rig and offices doing wiring - can't rewrire their shed, but a 5 Day wonder who was a brickies labourer last week can.

@richardjones3112 Год назад

100%.👍

@ChooseLife.YourLife 11 месяцев назад

This situation im in actually. 15 years experience with a 4 year apprenticeship, done domestic, commercial & industrial. After leaving a company and wanting to work on my own im not allowed to sign off work cause im not part p. Its so ridiculous

@ef7480 4 месяца назад

There has to be an interview somewhere with a Napit CEO ‘so, you were aware of this particular electrician registered with your competent persons scheme had left unsafe work whilst also using logos on his adverts that were not justified, yet you still did not suspend his membership, or investigate the unsafe work, correct?’ “Yes that is correct”

@leeward5576 6 лет назад

The truth is coming out, well done SN :)

@westinthewest 6 лет назад

Does it matter who does the work as long as someone checks it at the end and confirms that it complies with BS7671?

@SparkyNinja 6 лет назад

The concern is how that is actually done.For example one of the fundamental principles of BS 7671 is Regulation 134.2.1 which states that "During erection and on completion...". So the practice of a competent person checking the system to BS 7671 at the end of the installation is a non compliance to BS 7671 to begin with.

@rowifi 5 лет назад

Presumably sockets could be installed badly, with potential for future arcing if the terminals were not tight enough, yet still pass the electrical tests. Unless the final tester physically inspects everything then there's always that risk.

@deadpoolion4850 3 года назад

@@rowifi but surely wouldnt the tests spot bad connections through their meter testing? Also sorry for the late reply I just wanted to say lol.

@rowifi 3 года назад

@@deadpoolion4850 I can't see how a meter test can account for a low resistance reading that just happens to be loose and move over time due to building movement or thermal expansion and contraction..

@deadpoolion4850 3 года назад

@@rowifi An accurate meter reading would be able to check for bad connections through the resistance reading being high. Also thermal cycles cant be avoided even on perfect termination so thats why maintenance should be carried out and connections should be tightened.

@andrewej482 6 лет назад

Time so called Part P Electricians were scrapped

@digitaria Год назад

I am shocked at his answer, I didn’t know that you didn’t need any qualification or experience to wire a house. That can’t be right, can it? Then there is the fact that you can go through an LABC inspector rather than a Competent Scheme provider, but this still means that you need to know what you are doing. I here the arguments all the time about apprenticeships and AM2 etc. I was on an Inspection and testing course (updating my certificate) with a couple of older guys whom have completed all manner of electrical installations, BUT, never tested any or couldn’t identify the different types of RCDs. These guys had years of working experience but I had far superior technical knowledge. In this case am I an electrician and they are not? I would beg to differ their as their experience is very valid. I thing the trade should be split into categories, Containment specialists(including jointing), Installers (cabling first and second fix) and Tester (inspection, testing and commissioning). That way every one knows where they stand.

@paulstimpson8977 8 месяцев назад

The problem is that Electricians tend to be good at a particular thing and working for a company you can end up being assigned to that task, natural of course because of the benefits to the company. However this is bad for the electrician as they will then lack experience in other areas. Of course it is quite difficult to keep up the all round experience even if you wanted to, you might not get to do MICC for years for instance. That said I would disagree with splitting them into categories. I think the system is fine as it is but perhaps some sort of CPD should be introduced such that these other areas get a refresh from time to time.

@harveysmith100 3 года назад

"They don't need to have any training, that is true?" "Well, errh, yes."

@12leckie 6 лет назад

That is totally amazing!

@truthwillout7909 2 года назад

They make you sick.

@skinautique30 6 лет назад

the 2391 is a joke. open book 4 questions, that a second year apprentice would walk

@co2maker88 6 лет назад

craig mercer don't you mean 2393?

@skinautique30 3 года назад

@@co2maker88 no I dont

@grahammackie3117 2 года назад

The '91 still has around 7 hours of assessment. The actual level of the delivered content hasn't changed. For me, it's the level that all electricians should be at but that's never going to be the case. Yes, the centre marked written questions are pretty straight forward (and yes only "4" questions, but they're split into several parts each) and you'd expect electricians to completely nail it but believe me, this doesn't happen often. Some candidates will scrape a pass online, some will nail it, depends on the effort that they put in. It was my understanding that it was simplified due to pressure from other awarding bodies producing "easier to achieve" Level III qualifications. I personally think the old '91 and it's closed book written papers were better at cutting the wheat from the chaff but it's now down to test centre assessors with the practical assessments to hold the line. The problem with that is that some assessors can let candidates through even though they've not proven competence.