The Riddler character was an egomaniacal genius, not a psychotic internet leader. I think this video is correct and crystallized for me why I didn’t care for the film.
He was an egomaniacal genius, or did you watch the film with a blindfold on and ear plugs in? It’s pretty damn clear that his actions were fuelled by his bruised ego. He didn’t kill those people and flood the city because he was genuinely trying to wipe out the corruption from Gotham, but because he felt personally wronged by them. At his core, the Riddler is an extreme narcissistic cyber terrorist with obsessive compulsive disorder, and Paul Dano nailed it.
The whole movie felt like a pilot episode. A test run. "Here is Joker. You like him? if this movie does well, you might get him in another movie. And we bring Penguin back. But first... RIDDLA!"
@@zemox2534 I'm sick of this garbage riddler. He acted way to much like jigsaw....with an annoying nerdy look...ew talk about basement dwelling neckbeard. I actually couldn't finish the movie...
I'll admit, I burst out laughing when I saw the Riddlers chat going 'TICK TICK BOOM!' during one of the hostage scenes. You can bet your arse something like that has happened online
The movie took a huge nosedive when they finally revealed The Riddler. It's one of the reasons I haven't been able to rewatch the film. I get about an hour into it and then remember that all of this takes me to Dano's terrible take on a bad guy.
Finally someone else who thinks the same as I do on this! It had all the right ingredients for a great Batman movie, weighed down by the cheap, underwritten villain story and Dano casting.
I feel like paul dano was perfect for the role but the script writing was completely ass for me. Robert lines in the movie felt like a teenager on their edgy phase writing a wattpad angst about love and justice story tbh.
@@Delete240 it was bad. To the point I couldn't finish the movie. Birthday cards? Really? First off riddler would NEVER 2nd dude this script was written like a children's neckbeard story...it was BAD
The Riddler, or really the jealous little orphan just didn't have much to do with the Renewal Project at all. Hence he ends up in a cell ranting about Bruce Wayne. He went to great lengths to get even the other orphan, Bruce the privileged. Should have used Victor ZsasZ, at least his parents were dead. Riddler had a dad, he was an A55
Totally disagree with the video. I think Dano's Riddler is incredibly well written. All of Riddler's political grandstanding was just a mask for an angry, insecure, man with a narcissistic complex. Dano's Riddler targets corruption, not because the corruption itself is inherently bad, but because he feels personally wronged by it. He's not going after Gotham's corruption for purely altruistic reasons. He does it as a selfish way to cope with his trauma; he's a clear mirror to Pattinson's Batman in this regard. Riddler hates that he's been forgotten, let down by Gotham's institutions, while the rest of the corrupt still live great lives. The problem is that he cares more about revenge than any form of objective justice. He cares more about making himself feel better. It's why he tries to kill Bruce Wayne. Bruce isn't really corrupt at all. Riddler just feels personally wronged by him. Bruce gets all the attention, from the media, when Thomas dies. Attention that Riddler, and all the other orphans, should have got through the renewal fund but didn't. This is the core of Riddler's character. This desperate need for attention and recognition that stems from very early childhood trauma. An entire lifetime of feeling unrecognized. The sick feeling of being invisible coupled with being forced to watch people receive undeserving praise, turns Edward into a narcissist with delusions of grandeur. At the end of the day, he wants to be seen. Edward saw what Batman was doing. He saw all the media frenzy about this crazy vigilante. So, inspired by Batman, he dawns his own mask and finds power in it. Edward was forgotten by society, but everyone would recognize the Riddler. The man who exposed Gotham's corruption and lies. That's why he goes after Gotham's criminal elite. All of his elaborate killings and videos were simply a shortcut to that attention. He cares more about looking like the hero, like his idol Batman, than actually being one. He's so delusional that he genuinely thinks he'll be seen as a hero for flooding Gotham (resetting the city to zero by passing judgment like God; an example of his narcissism) and assassinating the mayor. "They'll remember me now. They'll remember both of us". But at the end of the movie, Ridder is wailing in his cell. Why? He accomplished flooding the city. He exposed and killed most of Gotham's corrupt. He just missed out on the mayor and Bruce. Why is he this upset? Because once again, someone else has "stolen" the attention away from him. The news is only talking about Batman. There's zero mention of the Riddler. This was supposed to be Riddler's moment. He thought everyone, the news included, would be praising him for wiping Gotham clean. Showing Gotham real change by washing it of its sins and renewing it's promise. But no. All everyone wants to talk about is Batman. And this is where the true comic book Riddler is born. The one obsessed with outsmarting Batman because everyone praised him when they should have been praising Riddler: the "true" savior of Gotham. The city didn't recognize him as their hero. Fine. Then they will have no choice but to recognize Riddler's true genius when he inevitably takes down their fraud of a hero called The Batman.
also i think it's unfair to say that the batman takes from the joker movie. The movie was already deep into production by the time Joker was released. The movie was already shooting a couple months after Joker was released, so the script for the movie was already finished. This movie only took so long to come out because of the pandemic.
@@neareed9241 I remember seeing the trailer to 'The Batman', then seeing it get postponed a full year due to the pandemic. Totally unheard of at the time.
This riddler is literally just the joker movie. I watched this movie and everything was good except the riddler. Best riddler is from the animated cartoons and gotham. This Riddler is just straight up bad and while not boring he was just goofy.
I liked him. Cryptic, humanly detached, cerebral. I didn't like him singing 'Ave Maria' to Batman, it was cringe and took me outta the movie; but that was more a fault of the direction, the tone of the scene. Dano did a good job overall.
Breaking news: Riddler is cringe!!!! In other news: water is wet, and the sky is blue! Newsflash, they Riddler is meant to be cringe. Is this the first Batman story you’ve consumed where the Riddler is the villain?
@@Delete240yes but he's also meant to be a genius, he's also meant to be ruthless, and lastly, while he may be an oddball, cringe isn't how I'd describe him. He's zany, but not hamfisted. He's eccentric, not screaming, singing fool
"Paper-thin, perfunctory, by-the-numbers" is exactly how I'd describe The Batman as a film overall, not just Dano's performance in it. Cinematography aside, it completely missed the mark for me on so many levels. It was simultaneously too long and yet somehow wasn't long enough to tell a compelling story, develop the characters or raise any emotional stakes for the sequels. It's a movie that takes lazy advantage of the assumption we already know and love the universe going into it, and doesn't bother to put effort into enhancing that love any further by contributing to much aside from cool visuals and soundtrack. It starts off with The Riddler clearly committing a murder, and then the whole second act forces the audience to sit and wait for a downright doltish Batman/GCPD to catch up to what we, the audience, already know and saw. Zero mystery. A ton of needless exposition and characters whispering nonsense at each other. It wasn't a layered "whodunit" or clever film noir as people caught on the hype-train have praised it to be. It's no more than a walking, talking mood board with a Hollywood budget. They could have cut the running time in half and still accomplished whatever they were trying to communicate. It's not dark because of its depth, substance and weighty themes, it's dark because someone forgot to turn the light on in every scene. It's ultimately a slap in the face to the hardcore fanbase in favour of tickling the fancies of a casual audience interested in endless merchandise and toys, and a drawn-out excuse to produce the inevitable Blu-Ray trilogy boxsets and several TV show spin-offs (Colin Ferrell's laughable Deniro-plagiarized Penguin is getting his own series... ugh.) Catwoman was definitely the best character portrayal in the movie (not exactly a high bar to pole-vault over though in comparison to the others), but her chemistry with Batman was non-existent and pure cringe. They both seemed to be 'interested' in each other for no other reason than both being young and hot wearing form-fitting spandex. No depth, no character exploration, just mindless bedroom eyes and emo-simp Battinson leaning in for a smooch. Their stale scenes together served as better fodder for Tumblr teens to make animated fanfic GIFs out of than actually telling a proper story with any interesting, quotable dialogue. I could go on for several more paragraphs about how convoluted, disjointed and poorly structured this film is, along with how much of a slog the whole thing was to sit through, but it's making me sick just talking about it. Looking forward to the next instalments where we get more 3-hour increments of super dark slow-stepping brooding-whisper-man doing his thing -- but this time, it's WINTER in Gotham and everything is tinted slightly BLUE instead of ORANGE! WOW!!
The fact is, that this character has never gotten much attention or screen time before this version of the Batman. Really, the only other times in which the Riddler got recognition was in the portrayals done by Jim Carrey and Cory Michael Smith. Now, I know Jim Carey’s Riddler is a classic, but he was never played with that much seriousness, nor was he intimidating in that role. More of a class clown type ordeal. And as for Cory Michael Smith. He played a small role in a not so big Tv show (Gotham) barely sparking any public interest in this character. And sure, Paul Dano doesn’t play this role well but he doesn’t play it bad either. And it’s also not a bad thing to be influenced by those before you, or other roles that you’ve done. Maybe there are similarities there, and you simply take inspiration from that. I think Paul Dano gave this version of Riddler the life it’s been severely lacking. As every other portrayal has been less than lackluster at the most. One major problem I find with this version of the Riddler was the script itself. He says a lot without actually saying anything meaningful or that important. But Paul Dano’s overall performance was very well done I feel. Especially the breakdown scene, and singing Ava Maria. Quite frankly made him look like a creep, which I guess is a good thing. But who knows what the future holds for this character. Personally, I think this version is simply just a stepping stone for another.
I agree that he performed well and honestly probably felt capped with what he was trying to deliver. The plot and script is bad and lacks meaning, shock or unique punch. He is simple a terrorist who breaks down in vertical (phone camera view). His game of playing with Batman is a series of hits on corrupt government
@@Delete240 he ruined it. This dude can't riddler. Look at animated "the batman" from 2004 THATS riddler sadistic...funny but smart. Now this one can rot with that hades awful penguin...ew
I thought if he had more interestingly intended crimes he could have remained as awkward and disconnected as he was. That would have been good. But when it really came down to just terrorism, the van bombings and organizing followers to commit mass murder and doing exactly what the Joker did targeting corruption. Also why is everyone a horrible shot. Why is out Batman's villan dumb enough to literally shoot a Mob boss from his own fucking window. Like yeah he wanted to get caught to play with their minds, but having a villan behind bars and still commiting crimes aint shit. And again with the same bullshit where every villian does the green goblin move and tries to convince the hero to swap sides. His physical force was low, ok thats fine, but his mental game was not there either. Sure he was a /b/tard from 4chan maybe who didnt get mommies milkies but when they had him locked up the games were over. It was just an oh no terrorism. What if the riddler used the police corruption to just get out? Why didnt he ruin batmans identity? Why was he simply a poet commiting terrorism. I agree, pretty ham fisted and wasted a really cool villian. I think the act himself did well but they cant not write a story.
I agree with just about everything other than I don’t think the movie let catwoman flex as much as I wanted. This also could set you up to explain why disagreeing with the politics of a movie doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t enjoy countless other aspects of it.
I REALLY wanted to like this movie as a whole but just couldn't. And Riddler was definitely one of the problems I had with it. He's one of my favorite Batman villains. As I heard someone once say, he's the thinking man's villain. He tests Batman's intellect and wit rather than his brute strength. Paul Dano's Riddler was none of that. He's just a loud obnoxious child looking for attention like a deranged influencer. Maybe you could say they wanted to be more original with him but he's WAY too much like the zodiac killer if he was a batman villain.
I value this take on the Riddler. If you've ever worked with psych patients, you wouldn't think the interrogation scene was overacted. It was subdued, really. And a darkweb incel with a following is a way more plausible threat than a frozen guy, a clown, a roided wrestler, or straight-up ninjas.
Paul Dano could have been a better Riddler with a better script. He is near the top of my list of actors who never seems to get enough script relative to what he would be capable of. This movie basically gave him almost nothing to work with.
Hilarious ending, good video! I think Paul Dani has good moments in the film as Riddler, but there certainly isn't enough there to help him stand out when compared to other villain adaptations.
I wonder why they placed the camera so badly in the interrogation scene.. a bit lower and the reflections would not hide the eyes and at the same time it would have at least felt a bit more dangerous.. this way you would have at least a 5% better impression regardless the quality of the acting..
@curtissmith8152 I personally like when movies dont try to copy the source material. But the thing is this riddler isn't too far off from the New52 Riddler story wise only difference is that he wears a black mask and that he lost.
An extra writer had to come in to save the day. The flooded street part is lifted straight off the page of the comic! and Tacked on with masking tape. If you read my comments, my discontent is not from expecting them to be copying the source material, there is a ton of diverse stories spread over a wide range. They went so far off road with Dano that they just left the name tag and created someone else. Please read my comments, my criticisms have a lot more merits. Bawuce Wain@@Invincible-Under-the-Sun
The video of the guy with rats in a cage is straight out of DK with Heath as they giggle while killing/torturing them. Are you saying I don't know where they were going with Dano? Pretty easy path.
Yeah, you lost me at the joker. That to me was overacting. His laugh sucked the air out of the room. Personally didn't really care for Catwoman neither. Not so much her acting but her tie in to the plot felt a bit forced imo.
No better Joker then Jack Nicholson, Ledger sucked. Dano's Riddler was just a different take. It was ok. Batwoman nah! Penguin was Devito. Robert Pattison was a bad Batman, Michael Keaton will always be my Batman!!😊
I really liked the points you made RE the thematic stuff and how batman low-key always necessitates copiganda-- also the stuff Abt joker and reverting that back into a Batman movie but I still really liked dano in this one
Also I wouldn't say the online left hates joker but definitely a lot. A plurality even maybe but as zizek would say the movie was basically an ideological slate for the viewer to project their political meaning onto
I enjoyed the almost homoerotic fanboyism gone too far aspect of Dano’s riddler. I felt the inclusion of Penguin just added too much fat and bogged down the whole movie with yet another Italian name to keep track of. I agree wholeheartedly this Gotham was so effective and an actual character. No fake grime like Nolan who seems to have never gone down on a women and enjoyed real delightful disgust.
This Riddler is my favourite villian of all time.. I think the "stitching" is what makes him phenomenal. Making something work despite so many parallels and concepts combined together is difficult, and Paul Dano and Reeves pulled it off.
@@Mikey-em8hs I know a lot of people like it, but I was really loving the movie until they "revealed" the riddler. I get that, he's supposed to be a pathetic incel but the over acting by Dano was unbearable.
@@jtothey1993 you’ve 1. Never met an insane person, and 2. You don’t understand the Riddler’s character. Crazy people act over the top, that’s why they’re crazy. The whole point of the Riddler as a villain. He’s cringey, goofy, annoying, but also deranged, sadistic, extremely intelligent, and extremely dangerous.
@@Delete240 Love all these assumptions you're making about some random person on the internet. I like Paul Dano as an actor in other things, so I don't mind saying that I didn't like his performance in this movie. You can just deal with it.
I heavily disagree honestly, I believe that Todd Phillips version was more cowardly and vague with it's politics than The Batman. It has very little to truly say outside of, 'Rich people bad' and, wealth inequality leads to societal instability. The protestors in 'Joker' are portrayed as sheep, people who have no plan or end goal and simply cause chaos and instability because they are frustrated. The only indicator of why Gotham is so economically fucked was the winding up of the mental health facility that Fleck has access to. The how and the why is not explored. It's progressivism is very vague, also, it's framing of women is rather skeevy to say the least as Arthur stalks and obsesses over his neighbour, hallucinates about her and then invades her house and what he does to her is left in the air. This could very well appeal to an incel audience, who feel similarly alienated. The 'rich bad' messaging has been used by facists as well like Mussolini and Hitler. It means nothing. It's not socialist. Joker's ideas and even visual motiffs are all borrowed from better written films such as Taxi Driver, King Of Comedy and Network. The Batman explores class warfare from four POVs, Riddler's (which the film literally opens in from), Catwoman's, Batman's and Jim Gordon's. Riddler's end goal is similar to every Nolan villain you are correct there, but that doesn't mean the movie is condemning his greivances, or sympathizing with the neoliberal elite. If anything, the main villain of The Batman is clearly framed as Carmine Falcone, who uses the Renenwal fund as his personal bank account and has every single member in Office in his thrall, He owns the most capital in Gotham, both in terms of wealth and in terms of politics. And John Torturro's performance of Carmine was menacing in a very understated and subtle sense, the gravelly voice, the dead eyes, the static physiciality, he feels like a crocodile, calculating and unsettlingly still. As someone, pulling the strings from behind the scenes, making Carmine feel creepy and hidden instead of loud and overbearing makes total sense. Riddler's whole life was ruined by the failure of the social safety nets he was promised by simpering, out of touch, and plastic Bill and Melinda gates type, ivory tower billionaires. When Riddler tells his story, he isn't framed as some creep, the camera is very empathetic. When he has that breakdown and starts screaming it's quite evident that he's having an episode. A lot of people are certain that Bruce and Edward are on the spectrum. Heck the writer who worked on this movie also worked on a Batman comic thematically and visually inspired by the movie has Bruce's childhood shrink diagnose him as possibly on the spectrum. Through Catwoman, the movie questions Bruce supposed moral high ground by exposing him to the reality of economic desperation and crime and privilege. She has a blatant monologue as well where she literally chastisizes him for his black and white, ivory tower moralizing. Gordon is the everyday working man that just wants maintain law and order and social stability. He isn't interested in abuse of power through corruption or challenging the system. He is the middle class. The Batman also questions Bruce's hallowed legacy by showing his father as a calculating, facetious, desperate demagogue who tried to have a reporter silenced for reporting the truth about him to the general public. He's very clearly a slimy asshole and a far cry from the benevolent father in Nolan's version or the macho family man like in Snyder's version. And the Riddler is never shown having any political ambitions that include leftism. As I've said earlier, being anti elite or anti establishment is also a popular Facist approach to violent mobilization. That doesn't mean it's painting revolutionaries as facists, you have to jump through a lot of personal conjecture to make that conclusion. He is an acclerationist, and he wants to accelerate societal decay. This was explicitly stated in the Joker deletd scene, where Joker identifies Riddler's motivation as strictly personal, not political. Like for example, there was this racist asshole named Gypsy Crusader who (not surprsingly) dresses up as Joaquin Phoenix's Joker and has a huge online following where he abused minorities and women on Omegle. He was also planning somehing similar and was calling himself an accelerationist but of course the FBI busted him and had him a speedy trial, because mass surveillance in real life is far beyond anything you could dream up in fiction. Ultimately, Batman mobilizes the people of Gotham using his persona to help them stand together symbolically uniitng them through hope. The bright red flair is an excellent visual motiff as he instills in them a sense of hope and optimism and call to action. Batman reasses his own prejudices and understands how and why crime and corruption are intertwined. It's a good fucking ending, If you hated this but you liked Wonder Woman 1984 (which I also loved), it's a clear double standard I must say.
Very much agreed with everything you say here, with only the exception of how the film frames Thomas Wayne. If it hadn't been for Alfred's speech where he convinces Bruce that Thomas was a good man who made a mistake, I think your assessment of how it frames him would be correct. And it would've been ballsier of the movie to really commit to that characterization.
@@andrewwilliford9068 I dont know think making Thomas two mustage twirling evil would let a lot of people off the hook. The idea it only the bad billonares...that the issue. It more having that much power and wealth gives people to much power where their mistakes cause more harm. Making Thamos to evil make other people on the top go "Well Im not THAT bad...ain't eating babies like Thmoas wayne
@victornieves1794 The Batman: - Younger Catwoman and Batman - Police don't fully trust Batman yet - Penguin - A masked menace is exposing the corrupt of Gotham due to a personal wrong - Batmans parents were also caught up in some shady shit That... that doesn't remind you even faintly of the first season of the Telltale series?
Real leftists are just as Pro Gun as the far right, not everything is a binary. I found most this movie underwhelming, it is my least favorite Live Action Batman movies including movies only tangentially connected to the mythos.
