Here's how I'd book it. Hammerstein is nice, but I need this to begin in Philly. I'm asking Vince to build me my own facility. A new ECW arena. Small, but much nicer than the original. I'm putting the belt on Raven to start. Him, Sandman, Rhyno, and Dreamer in a fatal 4 way elimination match. Once he has it, the possibilities become very interesting. Dreamer and Sandman become managers right away. I'm gonna have Dreamer training my boys, Levy too if he wants to. I'm also gonna let him pick his heir. I know who it'd be. CM Punk and Raven had that chemistry you just don't see much. I build Punk as the antihero that becomes an enigma to Raven. Not a rivalry initially, but rather a form of courtship. Use Angle, Dreamer, Raven to "Recruit" him. Don't let him lose to anybody for 6 months. The losses need to create the story. Side note: Bobby Lashley and The Hardyz are my other belt holders. I'm not booking a women's division. It'd be inauthentic. ECW wasn't about that. Raven, after recruiting Punk for a while, sours on the indecisive nature of Punk. He's built this kid up, he's got him in the ring with him on the mic. He's grooming his protoge. Punk doesn't worship Raven adequately, therefore he's a nonbeliever and must be punished. You also use this space in time to build two factions: Ravens Nest, a nihilism cult and people who follow Punk without his needing to speak to them. A messianic cult. You create a series of three singles matches. No normal stuff, this is ECW. 1. The most violent hardcore match you've ever seen on cable. It was on a b network, so it would've been less controlled. This ends in a draw. Both knock each other out somehow. This is where the factions come in. That first match needs to happen after Raven has had the belt for almost a year. That was unprecedented in ECW. Make Scotty the exception. Create a sense of "Romanism", that belt isn't leaving our homegrown guy. Ever. This is where you really start to push guys like Lashley and maybe a Zach Ryder or Evan Bourne. Bear in mind, this is peak TNA AJ styles era too. I'm signing him. They follow Punk. He's the chosen one. 2. A vicious PPV cage match. Think the ones they actually had but bump that up 2 notches. You have to let Raven win, but it has to be a steal or just flat luck. He gets thoroughly dismantled, but through some sort of angle gets out intact. This is where Punk starts to become the Cult of Personality. The Voice of the Voiceless. A face Raven. A foil. He speaks to how the young talent is getting shelved for the "Old guys who got rich by quitting, got bailed out, and now they won't pass the torch". It creates something we never really got to see. A new take on how the NWO( the Nest is this, except they didn't invade, they're just bad rulers.) should have ended. Before the finale, you gotta figure out a way to put all the belts on Nest guys, because that's how the end starts. You get Styles over, have him beat Rhyno for the TV title. Who got him there? Punk. You get a good young tag team to take it from Nest members. I'm thinking Bourne and Ryder. They beat, let's say, the team of Richards and Kidman. Who pushed em and built em? Punk. Now, Punk has beaten every heel on the roster, taken away 2/3 of the jewelry from the Nest, and now the Nest is questioning it's leadership. A mutiny is coming. 3. Not sure how you get this on a PPV, but essentially the finale needs to be a simulated snuff film. A "real" deathmatch. It needs to happen in some sort of warehouse or compound. The Nest. Raven has to win here to reinforce his dominance over his flock. It needs to be cinematic. A showdown between cult leaders. A big circle surrounds them. Those are the respective cults. No civilians, no crowd otherwise. Joey Styles must be announcing. Make it feel like he's been abducted in order to settle this. The fight ends up with Raven getting the upper hand in a cheap way. A non Raven way. A betrayal to the flock. They revolt as Punk is about to be ended. The Nest save him. They give him time to recover. Raven, ever aware of the situation, tried to escape. He's stopped. Punk beats him mercilessly. Fight over. This last part is the essence of it all. Punk is handed the belt by a weary Joey Styles. Notice how I never mentioned Paul. There's a reason why. During this arc, Paul becomes disillusioned by Raven. His favorite guy let it all go to his head. You mirror Raven's ascension with Paul's decline. He likes Punk, but his heart is broken. By the finale, Paul is seriously considering closing up shop because ECW isn't itself anymore. Its a cult now, not a religion anymore. As Punk takes the belt, you see Paul looking on. Eyes meet. Punk smiles a bit and looks at the belt. "Its just a pretty piece of garbage, no more , no less." And the he drops the belt on the floor and leaves. Raven, now conscious, attempts to retrieve it but is stopped by Paul, who has already picked it up. "It's mine, he doesn't want it! What about me!" Raven screams. Paul, rattled but firm: "No Scotty, it's not. It's mine, and I'm gonna do what I should've done 2 years ago." Paul then walks to a trash can, and asks Sandman for a lighter and some whiskey. He asks RVD for a joint. He pours the bottle on the belt, lights it on fire, and lights the joint with the belt and dumps it in the garbage. "It never was going to be the same, I knew that. We were fools." Raven, now now resigned to his defeat, sulks over bloody and battered. "I need a beer, Sandman." He's given one. Paul takes a big toke and hands the joint to Raven. "We built it, and we destroyed it, but at least it was ours" Paul says. Raven smirks. "Quote the Heyman, nevermore." That's how you book it.You don't relaunch to become mainstream, you relaunch to end it properly. You fold it up, and bam! Half that roster became main eventers. It essentially would render all other promotions useless. You use 2 years to build to the end. You create a bunch of names in the process. Paul finally gets his legacy.
If I were Vince McMahon, I would have bought the ECW arena and renovated it (it would have to be done for national TV). I would have held ECW weekly in that arena, because you're guaranteed an ECW crowd, which was half the magic of the original ECW. I wouldn't have moved Big Show to ECW (doesn't suit), Kurt Angle was fine though. I'd have moved some other ECW originals they had at the time to the brand too (Chris Benoit, Super Crazy, Kid Kash etc.) & tried to hire a few more, because they didn't have enough guys on their roster. Short term, I would have turned Angle heel very shortly into the new show & had him feud with Rob Van Dam for the Title, that would be the main event of their first PPV under the new brand. Long term, I'd be focusing on hiring guys like Punk (which they obviously did) and more guys like that from the indies that the ECW fans would have knowledge of. Don't bring in WWE rejects like The Basham's, Test, Hardcore Holly (no disrespect to them, but they were WWE 'rejects' at the time). And the obvious things would be; keep it totally separate from WWE, don't change the rules that they had in the old ECW, bring back the Tag Titles and Television Title that they had on the original ECW, let Paul Heyman have the ultimate say in booking (not Vince).
Notice how Heyman spends the majority of the time looking and speaking directly to the person that mentioned Raven. he's not talking to the audience and telling a story or accessing his memories, he's talking directly to a fan and engaging that single individual.
Paul Heyman is definitely a man I would invite to one of those historical dinner parties. Einstein? Newton? Caesar? Nah, give me Paul.E, plenty to eat and drink and a comfortable chair!!!
Undertaker was amazing but it was hard to take him outside of the actual show. He couldn't do talk shows (watch his train wreck the first time he appeared on Regis and Kathie Lee) so he had a tougher time drawing money and getting mainstream coverage. I'm not sure who Vince's greatest character actually was though, it's a good question. They involve Vince and the wrestler working together, so Hogan, Austin, Cena etc weren't really Vince's creations. But he played a huge part in it.
You could argue Dreamer or Sandman was as well. Sandman was the perfect example of showcasing a wrestlers strengths and hiding his weaknesses. Same with Dreamer except Dreamer had more utility as he was ok in ring and had use as a promo/booker/behind the scenes figure.
Sabu’s work in TNA between 2004-2005 was exceptional. Especially his feud with Abyss. 2 Characters that didn’t speak. But told such an exceptional bunch of stories.
@@brandonsmith5880😂😂 You do know he's the reason why ecw went out of business? New Jack said he gambled all the money reason why so many wrestler was getting bounced checks.
@@Gameking92888yet they al love him still. He made so many guys known or led them to joining the bigger two companies which made them a ton of money that they wouldn’t have had without Paul.
Ravens character in WCW was definitely watered down compared to ECW, but WCW still did a great job with raven and the flock. I watched WcW as a kid and didn’t know about his ecw run, and thought his group was so cool and unique. Heyman should be saying that WWE ruined raven
Part of the problem was the NWO. If the NWO hadn't happened, hadn't been a driving force for so long, hadn't politicked to hold people down, maybe Raven wouldn't have gotten watered down
But WCW did ruin him once they did that storyline of him being a rich kid. And before that, in 97-98 they could have booked the Flock a bit higher in the cards but doubt the top names would have gone through it 'brother'
Agree 100% on Sabu .Unless you saw him in his true prime years , it’s hard to explain how great he was .We saw him in person on numerous occasions during those early years and couldn’t believe the things he was doing .Truly ground breaking stuff .
I remember seeing him work for an indy promotion here in Vegas in like 94 or 95, I forget. The promotion sucked, but was built around Sabu. He was the champion. Also, Ultimate Warrior showed up and did promos, but I don't think did very many matches. Back to Sabu, he was doing stuff I never saw before like the triple jump moonsaults off a chair. I remember thinking he was gonna be a legit top guy somewhere soon. It sort of happened in ECW. I really thought he was gonna be the goat. I even told friends about him. I believed he was from India, and wasn't sure if he spoke English or not since he never spoke. What an awesome character at the time.
Paul Heyman will always be one of my most favourite people in all of professional wrestling. The man just gets it. Every little thing. He gets what makes fans tune in or out. He gets what ticks the right or wrong boxes. He is by far one of, if not the smartest brain in the business. Love Paul. Absolutely love that man.
Just not a smart brain for business unfortunately, Would absolutely have loved ECW to continue past 2000 and continue to push the envelope, Who knows what the industry could look like now
Someone pointed out recently that Raven was on the cover of WCW/nWo Revenge with Goldberg and Hogan (and Nash) and no one thought it was out of place. That gives you an idea of how good that character was. He could've been bigger but Bischoff and Hogan weren't going to go for it because he was a heel and not part of his group. He also wasn't Hogan's generation so Hogan wouldn't get it.
Very true, I thought it was cool he was on the cover. He may have been mid card , but he had a strong character, strong group behind him, and had great feuds that the fans cared about (ie Benoit, ddp, etc)
Now that you mention it I remember back in the dah I lived in a country where we did not get WCW. However the only wrestling game on N64 were the THQ games. Me and my cousin would use Raven and we had no idea who he was.
The way Heyman describes Raven is the issue with Hollywood taking all these IPs and continuing them or adapting them years later. Most of the projects are failures because they didn't create the characters, they don't know the soul of the characters, and they have to change it to make it theirs and ot usually ruins it and makes it about the original in name only.
My dad had the pleasure of booking Sabu in our county jail around 2013. He said he was a chill guy and didn’t give anyone any hard times. He stayed overnight and they never saw him again.
This is one of the few times I have heard Paul actually shoot straight recently... I respect that anything current/active he kayfabes, the man is soo good.
Whenever Vince is completely done I feel Paul Hayman should stick around with Triple H to do creative with him. Don't see Paul going to AEW. Not saying he wouldn't but he makes WWE feel alive right now
This man was pretty brilliant when it came to story lines and the talent. He was also a real grease ball. But ya got to give him props/respect for a lot of stuff he has done for the wrestling business.
Sabu and Raven are two of the only ECW originals that I grab CAW's for in every wrestling game they're not in. RVD is my first if he's not already on the roster, then it's those two followed by Sandman and Dreamer if I have the room in the end with other stars from NWA, TNA, WCW, WWF, ROH and other promotions both new and old.
I was always a fan of the Raven character. I remember his in-ring debut on Nitro against Scotty Riggs. He picked up the mic and went 'there's no reason for us to fight'. I'd never seen that before.
Totally fair comments on Raven, Eric Bischoff has said multiple times on his 83 weeks podcast that he didn't get Raven as a character or as a person, so Paul definitely isn't sh*tting on Bischoff and Vince McMahon, unless you're a main eventer that he's created, he's not fully invested in you, as the invasion angle showed... A lot of people have said Sabu should have got a lot more than he did
I honestly believe if they'd brought ECW back now with Triple H running things it would have been so much better, imagine the NXT Black&Gold era stars mixing with ECW originals (obviously a lot of them are too old now and I realise that) but it would have been amazing. Finn Balor vs RVD, Ciampa vs Sabu, Nakamura vs Tajiri... just imagine it
I had just got back into wrestling in 2006 and that was the year the relaunch of ECW happened. I was hyped up for it but in a few months it took a huge nose dive. I had a weird feeling right after they went to the hammerstein ballroom and that match with Big Show vs Batista the ECW crowd booed them out the building, I just knew they were gonna stop catering to that hardcore audience. I went to December to Dismember that same year and was disappointed and heard days after that Paul Heyman left the company. I was like yup WWECW is done
I always thought that ece showl had been the mature brand,, WCW the family Saturday morning brand and WWE just doing what they do. You place the characters in the slot/show they fit into. By trying to tie all the shows together it just became a mess. I like watching, but I'm not going to watch more than I e or two.shows a week at best.
Everybody giving Paul love. Remember he's also the guy who would say anything and would snow the guys about ecw. He also didn't pay guys sometimes too. One of the reasons guys left was because of the hefty regular paydays.
I may not have been in the room but I totally get what his character was supposed to be. Everything he did was done with some intent. That's why he's my personal favorite wrestler/entertainer. He really knew how to manipulate a crowd and purposely only gave as much effort as he had to just to get the reaction. He would literally sit in the corner before the match started to prove a point.
The thing about both Bischoff and McMahon is that they didn't bother to delve into the Raven character as it was. If they had, THEN they could have written and booked him very well. They wanted to change Raven, rather than just go with what had already been created. I wonder if Heyman actually attempted to "educate" either of them on the character, or just let them blindly do their own thing? If the latter, then Heymen himself is partially at fault there. I do disagree with Heyman about one thing.... Despite him being a Heel, I liked Raven. I understood him, because he represented my generation. We were ignored, and when not ignored, we were abused, and when we tried to stand up for ourselves, we were ostracized for it.
And of course, some of us suspected Raven's horrible family life etc wasn't cut n dry as the Raven promos had most believe. Some of us saw an actual privileged, spoilt kid who had everything, but wanted to be the grungy, broken, bitter outcast. And yeah, Raven turned out to be what some of us suspected. Which, in all fairness, made the Raven character one of the most relatable, compelling and frustrating ever
Only The Dudleys and RVD were top stars in other promotions and WWE booked them good and if RVD didn’t get pulled over with Sabu he would have had a longer reign
I love Paul so much because he's one of the greatest minds in wrestling history. Whatever he touched it turns into gold. I absolutely love how he breaks down the creative work behind the raven character. He's so relatable because he represents the working man while being a creative genius. I cms listen to him talk all day
Small NC town of Mooresboro, so small that just a few people dying/leaving the place would remove it from atlas consideration. Raven makes an indy appearance around '09/'10 or so. Town's pumped, packed gym, area's biggest morning radio guys were even there for the main event. We wait through nobody after nobody, then The Offspring starts blaring. We go wild. Raven comes out, says hello, and tells us he's been trying a standup routine he wants to share with us. Immediately does the hicks-with-missing-teeth stereotype jokes to an audience that cant believe it. Turns out the nobody he was facing was intended to be working face and Raven pulled the funniest fucking audible he could, and it worked. Will never forget.
I ALWAYS liked Raven, and i thought he was super over in ECW and WCW with the whole Ravens flock thing. i could never understand why the WWF didn't do anything with him??
Love hearing Raven get his due, even if just to a small audience. Way too underappreciated for how good he was. Which is wild to me, especially in WWE where they wont push certain guys because they cant talk, but can go in the ring. Raven was one of the best promos out there, and could also have great matches.
If Paul Heyman teaches a class of public speaking, he would be a billionaire. The greatest speakers would learn a thing or two from him. I'm a Paul Heyman guy.
wasnt goin to comment unless he mentioned sabu and he did sabu is my #2nd fav wrestler of all time and yes heyman is correct early sabu was clean (BOTCHLESS) to watch he was way ahead of his time ......... and yes he was leg droppin people through tables them early days as well POINTS TO THE SKY !!!!!
It’s so funny Hayman & Cornett disagree but also agree so much. Corny even says that Hayman is the NY version of himself. The 2 best minds in the world of wrestling.
To all of us and every ECW fans that watch ECW over 20 years ago that watch ECW are the best wrestling fans in the world the Philly fans are true ECW fans and legends for next year’s WWE hall of fame in Philadelphia pa the legendary Paul heyman and raven deserves it 1000 percent love these guys and respect these guys they both deserves one Paul heyman is Philadelphia hero and two raven was really born from Philadelphia these 2 1000 percent deserves it thank you Paul and thank you raven
I jus gotta say…FUCK YES!!! Glad to see this out pouring of respect for Raven and even more happy that it’s comin without him having to pass away for everyone to realize his greatness…I been sayin for years how great ECW Raven would fit in about any era
Idk, Raven was gold on Nitro still..til wcw fkd it up, but to this day Raven is in my top 10 of all time,.would always make Raven on create a character on wrestling video games. Super underrated & WWe didnt handle him right at all either...I hope one day hes in the Hall OF Fame
@@Charsi_Escobar I heard it also had something to do with when Raven was Johnny Polo in WWF, he went on a drug-fueled night out on the town with Shane and Stephanie.
Paul Heyman, low key, also explained why Super heroes have so many paths and backstories. Why the Infinity Wars weren't about Lady Death with Disney. Imagine if Tolkien gave Lovecraft a half finished Lord of the Rings....
I agree with Heyman. Saw him at an indy promotion here in 94 or 95. He was the champion and the promotion was built around him. Ultimate Warrior made appearances and did some promos, but hardly had any matches if any at all. Anyways, as far as Sabu goes, I was in awe. I never saw anyone do the triple jumps off chairs into tables, etc. Plus, they made it seem like he was the man. I remember telling my Indian best friend about him. I said he was awesome. My friend asked how big he was. I said 6ft0 220, i think. He said he would be a giant in India (this is before Khali) lol. I really thought i was going to see him as the man in one of the big 2, and he would be the goat. Fast forward years later, i saw him in ECW tagging with Rob Van Damn. Oh, by the way Van Damn was in that indy promotion too. He was just a mid card guy. I never thought he would be anything, and didnt know what skills he possessed. He and a partner (i forget who), tagged against the Powers of Pain. The POP were still jacked back then and destroyed Van Damn and his partner. However, i think the POP lost by DQ. Not sure if they didnt want to beat their guys since, i think the POP were coming in as attractions and would be leaving, or what. They should have just had the POP go over because Rob and his partner looked like jobbers anyways
I don't usually care how a wrestler is booked or who deserves a push or whatnot, but Raven is the exception, I feel so many good stories were thrown out because they didn't know what to do with him. Kane (even Undertaker) could have gone under Raven's spell and/or manipulation as one storyline. Raven as the real Higher Power and chastising Taker for "getting soft" and "ruining the plan". Even if during the Alliance a story where he injured a bunch of Originals Vince didn't want (or know how) to use as a way to make sure ECW stayed dead could have been captivating TV. And while Raven was used better in WCW, he wasn't used great there either. Many a people would have paid to see him vs Hogan. Sting, Hall, Nash, Flair and so on and so forth
Loved that match when raven stared beating the late terry funk into a bloody mess. Then big dock dudley comes out of nowhere. Then Tommy dreamer chocked slammed him through all of those tables.
Raven is probably my favorite wrestling character of all time. Some wrestlers had "the look" that got them over (Warrior) or the ability (Benoit) or charisma (The Rock), but I always loved watching Raven simply for his character. I didn't even need to watch his matches, since his promos were so enjoyable. I loved rooting for him while simultaneously rooting against him. To this day, my favorite wrestling moment is his return to ECW when he won the tag titles with Dreamer against the Dudley Boyz. I can't imagine what it would've been like to be there at the Trocadero that night.
ECW would’ve had a massive additional stream of revenue had RU-vid been around at the time. They could’ve uploaded all of their shows and made 💵 off the views like NWA has done in recent history. They would’ve never needed to worry about TNN.
I once read that Shane McMahon suggested to Vince to buy ECW, run it like another official development territory while moving their format to running weekly PPV shows like NWA-TNA did in 2002-2004 and monthly internet PPV supercards. All of these ideas in late 2000 prior to ECW going to bankruptcy in April 2001. But Vince knew it would just be cheaper to buy ECW tape library from the bankruptcy court.
I’m sure lots of those guys would’ve loved to stay put. But the pesky aspect of needing their checks to clear so they could pay their bills got in the way. It’s great to be booked as the top guy in your company but not if you can’t keep your lights on.
Mike Awesome should have had a bigger part to play, if he had made the decision to go to WWE instead of WCW when his contract with ECW expired, guy was incredibly agile for his size. Would he have had a longer career, definitely and when he did eventually come to WWE it was way too late.
Raven was one of the best heels of all time. Think of how many heels you remember that weren't in the nwo that you actually remember. The first one to come to mind is Raven and the Flock.
I remember seeing some of those matches as a kid.. And I fully, and completely agree with Paul Heyman when it comes to Sabu. He honestly was a damn good wrestler that did not really get the credit he deserved during his time. TNA used him well though for the time they had him and what kind of condition he was in physically. Great matches overall in both ECW and TNA. Not soo much the places in between sadly.
"he came from a broken home" I know what Paul means, that's ECW, but I can't stop thinking about Raven in WCW when he was like in a sitcom with his fancy mom and like casual sunday morning Sandman 😂
On something to wrestle with Bruce Prichard said there was an idea of WWE buying the ECW arena. If I was fantasy booking I would have WWE immediately buy and Refurbish it. better lighting better electricity dont want a black out like barely legal lol.
