Please find and read two books - The Glorious Church by Watchman Nee and The Practical Expression of the Church by Witness Lee. And as you read, pray that “ He May give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the full knowledge of Him, the eyes of your heart being enlightened.” (Eph. 6:17-18).
I spent my life with evangelical churches and was introduced to local church by my wife, did not hear about it before, It is true and I did not hear or read anything against Christian faith that I know, more meeting and home meetings and Christian conferences and gatherings that strengthens the Christian group, since brother Lee from China it has Chinese culture of solidarity, We as Christians should practice mercy instead of watching one another to criticize. any one believe in Jesus in the World and go to church and read bible and make it live, is my Christian brother ( Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Local Church, Pentecostal, Presbyterian.. .....etc
The church is NOT our mother, but a fellowship of people who believe in sola scriptura and sola fide and who walk together in line with the Holy Word of God.
@@pastorrandy The point is that God didn’t give us the Holy Spirit so that we would have some American, rugged individualism Christianity where it’s just a single believer and the Holy Spirit. Jesus gave us the church. What St. Cyprian was getting at is the church is like a pregnant woman’s womb- where saints are produced in order to spread the Kingdom of God. And if the Church is the bride of Christ and God is our Father, it’s only logical to conclude that the Church is our mother. It’s an analogy, bc yes- we are the church in some respect, but unlike us, the church is incorruptible and won’t fall like we often do. It’s akin to @the people OF Israel l, and Israel with all of the promises God has made concerning it. But greater are the promises of the church than that of Israel. I hope that makes sense 😂 All in all, the analogy is: the Church is the womb where saints are produced.
@@JoshAlicea1229 The Church cannot give birth to saints. Saints become a part of the Church AFTER they are given birth by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit places us into the Body of Christ, not the Church. Rather than comparing the Church to a womb, I would compare it with a nursery at a hosptial, where the infants are cared for, not created. I am not saying we do not need the Church, as you implied in your comparison with "American, rugged individualism ", I am saying that the Church is not our Source of spiritual life. The Spirit gives life, the flesh counts for nothing.
The thing is that the local churches ONLY reads books by Witness Lee and some by Watchman Nee. This is not normal since when in meetings people will mention Witness Lee just as much as Jesus, if not more.
iam a baptised Greek Orthodox and embrace The Catholics as my brothers I was was introduced to the Local Church in my town I was attracted to the talent teaching of the brothers .Yet as they that taught and preached unity on the other hand, pointing at and expousing blantant lies about the Catholic Church . the viewpoint of Watchman nee is skewed by the reformation as though th church began in1500 . There are wonderful Protestant brothers embracing Catholics in true ecumenicalism right here locally . Yet the Local church cloisters itself and closes it self off ttitude towards the churches around them least as Witness Lee term get Christianity germs on them....They point the finger at Christianity being infected by Nicholaitism and ar just as infected and being a nondenominational denomination with hidden aspects of clergy laity. Why aren't you willing to sit down and have Koinoia with your fellow Christians? Judge yourselves first with sober judgement before pointing a blaming finger at others . If im off base correct me if Im wrong
chapter and verse? show me where the term "local church" shows up in scripture. also the church is not a local congregation, it is the believer, the body of Christ. not a building, or congregation
how do you define "to the church in Corinth", "the church in Jerusalem"? IMO, the absence of the term doesn't mean that the concept behind the term is found nowhere in the Bible (e. g. Trinity, etc)
I never mention building, but there's nothing wrong with building. to be sure the church is the body of Christ, not the building, my question: is there any gathering of the body of Christ? where do they gather? how do they gather? how do you define "to the church in Corinth", "the church in Jerusalem" written in scripture? your answers to my questions are what I (and perhaps Paul Washer) mean by the local church
yes believers can and do assemble but that is not the church. my question for you is do you GO to church. and if so how is this possible if you are God's temple you as a believer have the holy spirit in you. you are part of the body of Christ. so how do you GO to church? you are always IN church, you are the church
Tom Ray I agree with you! We don't go to church. Because the church is not a place. But if each person is a church, isn't their gathering also a church? If book is book, isn’t their gathering also books? Each person is the body of Christ, but if one person is the body of Christ, the body of Christ becomes many. I believe that the body of Christ is one and the organism. The Book of Corinthians 12:12 saying “Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ.” And I want you to read Corinthians 12:21😊 The church is the body of Christ. And the body of Christ is not one person but many parts.
🤔 all i heard was philosophy against philosophy. May you give us more of the word, rather than thought brother? I pray God gives you an inkling of Solomons wisdom ❤
The local churches planted through Nee and Lee are of the most mature substance in all Christianity. Without the issue of the divine nature for the believer the body of Christ can not be made ready to be the bride of Christ. This is the work of the local churches and the man who criticizes this is without wisdom and a natural man and not a spiritual man.
They are one of the most exclusive, sectarian and divisive groups out there. They claim to be for the oneness, but it is not the oneness of the Spirit nor the Body of Christ; it is the oneness of the teachings of Witness Lee.
Nee and Lee did uncover some deeper Biblical truths (actually much or most of it was borrowed from Christian speakers before them, they just copied and consolidated it), and the local churches did recover a couple genuine Biblical practices such as calling on the Lord, exercising the human spirit, and prophesying (despite the way they prophesy is just repetition of things Lee said, which kind of annuls the unique function of prophesying)….. However the local churches are absolutely a cult. Both social and heretical. They are a hierarchical authoritarian system similar to the Catholic Church in how they function. They are clergy-laity because they uplift their speakers and elders above the nominal saints and the members are only supposed to speak what Witness Lee said, and they’re encouraged to do so verbatim. This was promoted and propagated by Lee himself and the small clique of leaders he set up to succeed him on his thrown after his death. And they are a system of man worship, uplifting Witness Lee (and to a lesser extent Watchman Nee) to god-like status. In fact Lee often alluded to himself being the “acting God on earth” and “the minister of the age,” which was an attempt to consolidate his control and power over the churches he set up Furthermore Witness Lee invented and curated several major erroneous and heretical doctrines that center around cult mind and behavior control. Two of the major ones are “getting out of the mind” and “blending to erase differences.” These two and probably a few other ones are major tools of mind and behavior control. And historically the local churches have been a separatist and sectarian movement very similar to the Amish. They practice a certain type of asceticism which repudiates certain things they deem “worldly” and pressure their members to conform to this mold. This damaging behavior has caused mental illness, broken up families, and in severe cases the loss of life According to my studying of this matter (I am a former lifetime member born into the local church system) the major deviations in their practice started with Watchman Nee and his books Authority and submission, Spiritual authority, and The Breaking of the outer man and the release of the spirit. These books are centered on power of control of leadership and the “breaking” and submission of those below in the hierarchy. In my view this is where the major cult behavior started There is a massive amount of evidence out there that proves they’re a cult and proves that Witness Lee was their cult leader. He propped himself up as a king amongst the churches that he founded, he centralized power through LSM (Living stream ministry, which is the base of operations or worldwide centralized headquarters of all the local churches Nee and Lee set up), and he dictated what happened to the churches and how they functioned. Doing so often in malicious and manipulative ways to consolidate his power. It’s his system that he set up to benefit him, his children, and his family. LSM made the Lee family very rich and it’s now making the “blended brothers” very rich Ultimately the local churches are a very deceptive and subtle sectarian cult that uses lying, manipulation, and intimidation to further their agenda What did they lie about? They lied about the fraud Witness Lee committed against all of the members he took money from to fund a business with one of his sons. They lied about systemic sexual assault scandals that were committed by another one of Witness Lee’s sons as well as several elders in various localities, and they lied about how they paid back saints who gave their life savings for Lee’s failed business ventures (they used the saint’s own tithe money to do so, which is illegal and fraudulent) How do they manipulate? They say one thing and do another in many ways. They claim they are accepting of all Christians that don’t meet with them (they are not). Witness Lee claimed there was no centralized power structure in the local churches, however he and his cohorts under him absolutely exercised absolute power over the local churches and when a local church wanted to practice autonomy the leading elders in that locality were besmirched of their reputations and summarily demoted or fired from their positions of leadership How do they intimidate? They use fear of the loss of the millennial reward to keep their members loyal and attending (which makes them lots of money in various ways through tithes and proceeds from book sales and training seminars). And they threaten their members never to talk bad about any bad behavior of their leadership by telling the members they will be rebels if they do so and say they might die or get illnesses if they “uncover the brothers,” which is a way of telling on the bad behavior of the leaders. So basically they threaten you to keep your mouth shut if any major sins or crimes are being committed by their leaders. This lead to systemic sexual assaults and sexual abuses as well as fraud which damaged many of their members. Some who left were threatened and when they wrote their testimonies they were threatened and their reputations lied about and they were also threatened with litigation in an attempt to keep them quiet (you can read all about this in various links below) There’s plenty of evidence of this online. Much of which are testimonies from former members on the abuses they suffered and the reasons for their departure from the local churches. Here are a few sources sources (apologies that it’s a little disorganized) localchurchdiscussions.com/vBulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=47&d=1273066418 artemisbelt.wordpress.com/2011/06/29/a-history-of-the-lord%e2%80%99s-recovery-in-the-united-states1/ assemblylife.com/a-future-and-a-hope/ (full book and website) bibleread.online/all-books-by-Watchman-Nee-and-Witness-Lee/book-Speaking-the-Truth-in-Love-John-Ingalls-read-online/14/ (says it all here, testimony of former elders who resigned due to unethical leadership) www.concernedbrothers.com/repent/BroLeesRepentanceWhyMissedTheMark4.pdf freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/ freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model-pdf-download/ www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=8227&forum=40&post_id=&refresh=Go blendedbody.com/4LCD/ModernMysticalTeachingsandtheWordofGod.pdf thecuriousfellows.wordpress.com/2023/11/15/select-quotes-from-witness-lee-regarding-the-lords-recovery-christendom-christianity-and-the-overcomers/ Lee admitting to wrongness- www.concernedbrothers.com/repent/BroLeesRepentanceWhyMissedTheMark4.pdf Lee admitting there’s a special class and rank in the recovery- shepherdingwords.com/twisting-ron-kangass-words/ concernedbrothers.com/Toronto/Reconsideration.pdf ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vNfqTOAfB4U.htmlsi=_3LJvFESa5Y3obZE ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tRkcT5tU578.htmlsi=iJA-MSmiOHVjcndV blendedbody.com/4LCD/How_To_Recognize_Cults_7_Characteristics.pdf assemblylife.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/chapter1.pdf ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-n-2QoHtRerA.htmlsi=f1v6njHEbnvulZcE (really good) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hPPdutV9xzk.htmlsi=S2TX2K3gD2LzReXm (really good on authority at the end, watch whole thing) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0z6RmKxH-BY.htmlsi=1lkX_O1_oPwobCah ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3hQfq4pHtiw.htmlsi=xtLSglHmLnBzY-E1 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wvHPZuki_-Y.htmlsi=HEUUlck4GudNMV25 (this one is good on cult practices) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-I22t8CVYHrU.htmlsi=yFRb5fe1LcBq0yIx (good on Nee and Lee history-read comments, particularly bp5722) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4cXvByMqVrQ.htmlsi=ffCA4EEXCcSwminK (good on authority and comments) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Hp83-QWhV68.htmlsi=zv8wV2mCzgNWhC_s (regarding the LC being good or not, even Lee said at one point that people are trapped. said it in various ways. also touches on lukewarmness and deadness, which may be caused by Laodicea and Nicolaetin behavior. maybe 50% retention rate of their children) metaphorical conclusion www.open-letter.org (wow) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Church_controversies ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-g9tQLWR2_zk.htmlsi=IY4ET3Qzn9vBpLJz www.johningalls.com/#/reader/chapter/49/0.0.19.0.0.80 (website) www.pfo.org/Pressing%20Truth%20to%20the%20Extreme.pdf (on Jessie Penn Lewis) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jfOv9-6yE-U.htmlsi=yHP3_o0238LDVV4F (really good) localchurchdiscussions.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=350 ru-vid.comJU7mR6dHT4M?si=7KPHjPAVFUGoTqvW thelordsrecovery.org/thread/ ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ZzhvIizk0Sg.htmlsi=_uPM50mydKiNpPO9 (very good) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VEp1QIERgeM.htmlsi=s6WOQzl43c8Si9FP ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FAoFgzxXZTY.htmlsi=kWFzWqFHtpGrgF7X (good, sums a lot up and eye opening) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2Nhbfz80KdU.htmlsi=2DSqA4MpciqqVfAq (good on authority) (very good around 16:00 on pretentiousness and sanctimoniousness) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-R7szsZw1GYI.htmlsi=WuFThzjRAuQjBDZ4 (ending is great) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Tnai6i0SdhQ.htmlsi=H03VErMpBKv0x86f quarantinedvoicesspeak.com/uploads/3/4/5/7/34571211/lettertoleaders.pdf www.laymansfellowship.com/public/CommunicationsWithSteveIsittRegardingTheThreadofGold2006-2007.pdf localchurch.web.fc2.com/PDF/AHistoryoftheLordsRecoveryinUS.pdf reviewingchurchhistory.com/uploads/3/4/7/1/34712424/deviatingfromthepath.pdf lcinfo.org/?page=news stephenisitt.com/about-us/ thebereans.net/forum2/forumdisplay.php?f=342 www.concernedbrothers.com/Truth/Sanitized.pdf
There’s nothing we can do right now. Despite the fact that they’re a legitimate cult, they ironically have the most advanced doctrine and Biblical practice out there Which of course they use to sucker people into their messed up system
The perfect church on Earth does not exist and you cannot make the perfect church. If you can prove me wrong and find this church DO NOT JOIN IT!!! If you do you will spoil it.
Opps i jumped the gun i should have researched where you are coming from i assumed you were a member of the Witness lee Local church ... the Lords Recovery ...sorry
Paul established elders in the local churches not pastors.. Pastors and teachers as the other accession gift ministries are the work of the ascended Christ not a democratic election of a church board. As is spoken Paul selected elders in each city and church of that city where he ministered. Not doubt that many of the elders would have the gift of being a pastor or an evangelist or a prophet . those functions are not suddenly transposed upon a individual simply by some elders laying hands upon that person and giving them a job as such
Please don't take WatchNee or WitnessLee as man gods,like later Day Saints. Nee and Lee had amazing revelation of of the word of God. We can study that as a guideline. But instead of meditating and dividing the Word of God ourself and sharing it to our brothers and sisters in Christ, the reading of Lee's or Nee's writings only are not good. It will become an another cult.Beware of that. I agree that anyone have no insight or revelation of the word of God to him it is good to read the writings. or read the Word of God as it is. Once a man of told me that if you have no particular massage from God to preach in the church one Sunday don't worry you just read one or two chapters from the New Testament and make people to listen that.. God can speak to them. So please don't try to make these men of God as man gods.. I like local churches.
