Doodlebud, I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but it is worth noting that any disassembly of the Pilot Custom 823 voids the warranty. Pilot does not recommend taking it apart for cleaning. Also, note that the Custom 823 as many reports of the barrel developing cracks after folks take it a part. It seems to be sensitive to overtightening. Overall, good video, but that info would be good to add.
Pilot repair in Florida refuses to repair cracked pens ! Mine cracked for no reason and the said the point was NOT removable ! They offered to sell me another 823 for $215.00 ! BS ! No more unrepairable cracking Pilots for me !
@@shiitakestick I love my 823 to death and have never had any problems, but my experience with that Pilot repair service in Florida has also been abysmal (the tines on the nib of my Vanishing Point came slightly splayed and the problem was getting worse, then one day the nose cone just fell off. When i sent it for repair they said the nib was unfixable and offered to sell me a new nib unit for more than they cost at jetpens/goulet. They did glue the nose cone back on free of charge but it fell off again like a week after I got it back. Two thumbs down.)
People worried about cleaning the 823 should just get the smoke version. It’s less translucent than the amber version-still translucent enough to see the ink level and watch the ink moving around a little bit, but not so much so that you easily notice residue and messiness inside the barrel. And as for residue of a previous ink contaminating a new ink upon subsequent refills, just embrace the fact that you’re getting a unique color experience every time you refill the pen with a different ink (unless it’s Baystate Blue, in which case you will learn a valuable lesson about flying too close to the sun with your ink choices, though it may cost you a $250 pen 🙃).
Same impression here, since I also have these pens - BUT the pilot cracked very soon, the Pelikan is my workhorse since five or six years. This may be just random, but I personally never will spend so much money on a Japanese pen, since I have not found a repair service in Europe.
Thank you for saying "current" grail pen LOL. We all think "when I get this pen... that's it.. I'll be satisfied, I'll be good, won't need any other pens......." Biggest LIE Ever! 🤣
@@Doodlebud Unfortunately, I think I am going to agree. I am a pipe smoker and I remember what was a grail pipe when I was a newbie vs. what it is now. Scary!
Now THAT"s a comparison. I'm fortunate to have both. Personally, I give my nod to the Pilot 823. It was wonderfully smooth out of the box (F) and it writes great for me. My mental answer to the eternal question, "if you could have only one..." it's the 823. Mind you, I really like my Pelikan 800 but it wrote too wet so I had the nib re-ground by Mike Masuyama (flex fine! it's great!). I also find the cap doesn't post dependably (easy to bump off).
I have both, and actually a few 800s. They are amazing pens. I wish Pilot added more colors to the 823. They did an exclusive for Bungubox in blue and it looked awesome. It sold out it in no time.
I hope you're able to get an 823 with a proper nib one day. Of the dozens of reviews I have seen of that pen, I think you're the only person who didn't say it was the best out of the box nib possible for under $500. That's so unfortunate :(
Great video, stands the test of time. I’ve had the 823 in smoke and amber for a few months now, M and F, and they felt good in my hand and wrote well-surprisingly I like the F most. However, I’ve been drooling over Pelikan since I got my first 205. I finally got the 805 in black/blue and, as expected it writes smoothly, wetness level is great. I knew from my last to go finer on the nib because they run wetter. I like that they have so many color options and that you can replace nibs. IMHO Pelikan 805 is best, not too big (M1000) or too small (205). I’ve attained my holy grail…for now.
Knockout video. Top topic. M805 which I own v Pilot 823 Custom the most attainable of my 3 Holy Grail pens. The build quality and after sales service on the Pelikan is amazing, I have 3 Pelikan pens in total 2 quite old and this M805 2 or 3 years old and with a ground broad italic. All 3 pens especially the older 2 are proper workhorse pens..
Don't buy the Pilot 823 until you have some experience with fountain pens, it is quirky and I really did not like it at first. The dealer did offer to take it back, but I decided to keep it. It is now growing on me and I may come to love it eventually. It takes some mastering, but may be worth the effort. Mine is a medium and being a wet pen, it has a tendency too fill small letters with my style, which I have to adjust. Perhaps not a bad thing.
Thanks for the review. I have two Pelikan 805's and enjoy them a lot. Build quality is superb and cleaning is also easy. I am considering the Pilot 823 but I don't have the best experience with demo pens as they seem to be dirty even if I clean them. I have the Pilot Heritage 92 in black because of that. Greetings from Turkiye.
Really don’t like vacuum fillers, so 823 is out. But the M800 is one of two pens on my wish list. The other is a Conway Stewart. Problem of what I am willing to pay for a pen. But it is just a manner of time. Great vide, thanks and keep up the good work
I don't smoke 'em but I do like their boxes. I pick them up at shops and turn them into pen boxes. Here's a how to vid I did: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nNYyctyOfQg.html
@@Doodlebud that s what I tried to say in my comment. Even if you can buy them on sale or a bid I think the pilot is less expensive in a proportion about 3 to 4 face the pelikan. Have a good nochevieja 🍾🥂
@@jesusdiezgrijalvo6036When I purchased my two pens, the M805 was about 20% more than the Pilot 823. Both were new pens. If the prices you're finding for the M805 is 3 or 4 times the price of the Pilot see if you can find a different retailer. I got my M805 from cult pens.
@@Doodlebud Oh, sorry! I didn't explain properly. When I said a proportion 3 to for I tried to say 3/4 times the price, which is 75% the price of the pilot vs the pelikan. This is not far from what you said. Thank you por your answer. Saludoa desse España. Take care.
I had a chance to play with an m800 this weekend and I can say that the Pilot would win for the price... although you might need to hunt around here in Europe. But the m800 was great, perfect size. I also tried an m1000 and it was too oversized for my hands.
This is like jewelry and cars. Totally subjective and a thing of personal preference. I like the blue one as blue is my favorite color so that's the one I would choose.
What is the fascination with demonstrator pens? I think it makes the pen look cheap. I would much rather take the Pelikan over the Pilot just on that point alone! Thank you for the video, it's one of the better ones I've come across!
Thx for the comment. Price is tricky depending on where you buy, exchange rates etc. Also sometimes you can find a great sale, coupon code, or find a really good used pen too.
I am still testing mine. I have a Pelikan M800 and a Pilot Custom 823. I have only had them 3 days but so far the 823 blew me away as soon as it touched the paper. Will keep testing but so far 823 is writing so amazing
@@Doodlebud yeah I need to play more with the pelican but I have to say that 8:23 is beyond smooth and just is such an amazing writing experience I hope the pelican writes very similar.
@@Doodlebud Japanese mediums tend to be more like a Western fine. I am happy with both the1911L and Sapporo (White Russian) in medium nibs and they have very little feedback. Having said that, I always tend to reach for one of my Pelikan pens when sitting down to write for any length of time. I like the extra weight in the M800 and M805.
Not sure why you didn't write 823 in your notes? You wrote 743? 14:38 Great comparison! I have the pilot. Love that thing. Trying to see whether or not I want a Pelican. My only pause is the level of wetness! I love how the Pelican looks though.
Great review. Thank you. Interesting. My Pilot 823 has a medium nib which is marked 15. Other RU-vid reviews I have seen Medium and 15 too. Very smooth writing as well, as per the other reviews. Have you got a dodgy nib? If I might comment, using different inks wasn't that helpful. Wetness for example, inks have different flows.
Think my nib was just an outlier. Inks, paper, etc still always a bit scratchy. Should send it to get tuned up at some point. But all in all a very good pen. Thanks for checking out my channel 😁
I absolutely love the Pelikans, but the M800 is a bit on the spicy side, price-wise. I really wish Pelikan would do the same with the M800 series as they did with the M200/M400. Make a more budget-friendly M800 with a steel nib and slightly downgraded trim.The M200 is great but a bit on the small side.
Yeah I hear ya, the size is much better on the 800 series, but price wise it's up there! Don't think it would hurt them to have a "basic" version of the pen. Just how BMW has their M series on cars. Can get the same size car, but if you want the high end trim, performance etc then you can get the M series & pay for it.
I don't know whether or not Pilot nibs are friction fit, but Pelikan M series pens all have screw-in nib units, so it's easy to swap them. I have both the models you compare in this video, and I disagree that the Pelikan is easier to clean. You can pull the rod all the way to the rear, unscrew the section, and thoroughly flush the barrel of the Pilot. I don't remember if you covered volume of ink that each pen will hold, but I believe the Pilot wins on that one. Aesthetically, I prefer the green- or brown=striped Pelikans, or else the solid black ones; not a fan of the blue-, grey-, or red-striped barrels. Finally, the plainer the nib, the prettier I think it is; ornate nibs, with a few exceptions, are overdone.
Nice comparison. I wouldn’t think to compare these two, but seeing your video, it now makes sense. I have the Pilot 823 and it is a smooth writing pen. I’ll have the M805 Stresemann soon. Now, I’m looking forward to doing my own comparison. Btw, I keep some of my pens in cigar boxes. I like the way you lined yours. Is that felt from a Crown Royal bag?
I use a router to make the wooden base plate with the pen slots. Then I buy fabric, use a sewing machine for the gold trim, glue it to the wooden base, then fit it to thr box.
excelente video solo a echo falta los precios actuales de ambos , yo tengo la 823 y me encanta mas adelante estoy interesado en comprar una M800, un saludo desde España.
@@Doodlebud Finally decided to cancel the Stresemann and buy the Blue Dunes with the palladium trim. Both of my “birds” have fine “bills” and are smooth writing instruments. I like the looks of the Pilot 823 but prefer Sailor which tends to have a similar feedback of a Japanese nib. For a smooth writing experience I like my inexpensive Pilot E95S. Smoooooooth!
I've got a pelikan m805 stresemann coming soon, in a fine nib. I like finer nibs and have all my lamy's (z50 nib & 2000 nib) in extra fine. Would you say that a pelikan F is good for daily use in comparison? Mainly use it to write math equations.
It all depends on how fine you want. "Typically" you want a finer line when doing math, but again all depends on your writing style/size. My EF on my 805 is pretty close to my L2K EF
I have a Custom 823 medium nib write very smooth but i would like something that writes thinner. For M805 Stresseman shall I go with EF or F to achieve this? Or the Pelikan F would be the same as the M I gave on the Pilot? One other thing I do not like scratchy nibs. Thanks!
I’ve always liked the Smokey coloured Pilot 823 with a medium nib. Matty Armstrong praised it highly. The other nib I use a lot are Stub 1.1 & 1.5 nibs. Can you get Stubs for the 805? The retailer I go to mostly says it’s hard to get the FA nib in Australia from Japan. Then having to an aftermarket feed. Both piston fillers? I’ll watch again, more comparison videos please.
@@Doodlebud Thanks I will check that out. Another major difference between the Pilot 823 and the Pelikan is price. The Pelikan here in Australia is around over double the price if you can get one. On the website I checked out, the blue was out of stock. Only a black capped 805 is available.
Anyone has any insights/experience on this: - Do the Pelikan M605 and M805 nibs provide the same feedback-smoothness factor for the same size (e.g. F vs F)?
I hardly use my Pilots, including the 823. It is dry and very sensitive to the ink used. Eg., Sailor Souten is fine in my 805, but unusable in the 823. Pelikan Tanzanite is excellent in every pen I own. It is dry in the 823. I write quickly at work. Every Pelikan from a 1933 100 to the M805 perform beautifully. Several of them have italic nibs. None are dry. My 823 is an italic broad. The italic modifications were all performed by the same artisan. You mentioned replacement feeds. I will explore that possibility.
I have an M800 with a EF nib. What would be comparable in the 823? I know pens from Japan are finer, so would a guy have to jump to a M? What is the feedback like? My M800 is perfect. Just slight. I have a Sailor 1911L with a F nib. That pen is too fine with too much feedback for my taste. Thanks.
The writing feel is VERY different. My M805 is an EF and a very firm nib with minimal livr variation. The Homo Sapiens is a fine but writes like a broad, EXTREMELY wet & very bouncy with significant line variation. So the two are very different when it comes to writing
I have the M800 M100 Pelikan and the Pilot 823 and 845. For me the Pilots are silky, glass smooth compared to the Pelikan. The Pelikans are not scratchy but they has a hint of feed back. On the Pilots there is almost no feed back at all. I think you need to try your tests again on Rhodia paper. Plain paper will give you a different experieice.
I've used every type of ink & paper on the Pilot, same result. I think mine is just a bit off. I've heard from each other review that their nib is super smooth. It happens sometimes when you get an off nib, was my turn this time
@@Doodlebud I had a scratchy M800 fine and I sent it back and Cult pens send a replacement and the replacent was perfect. You are correct. Nibs are so complicated.
I can't make a fair comparison here, as I've never used a Pelikan with a gold nib. But I have two Pilot gold nibs, an Elite (the E95s for the Japanese market, not the Korean one) in extra-fine and a resin Pilot Falcon in soft extra-fine. If I were shelling out this much for a higher-end pen, I'd probably go with the Pilot with an FA nib because it's more of a known factor for me and I'd be pretty apprehensive about being disappointed by a German nib I'd find not fine enough for my tastes.
This is why I did the video, to help give info for those who don't have both pens to reference/compare. But if you do like finer point nibs, stay with Pilot. Great fine points & lovely writers. My favorite is my vintage 1970's Pilot Elite. So good for that fine of a point! Here it is if you haven't seen it yet ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aefpZpy5fr8.html
Waaaaaayyyyy ahead of you my friend! 😜 Another viewer asked the same question and did a video just on this topic! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0rX6qQuV-ls.html
My only concern is the paper youre using. That looks like a regular school notebook which may be the reason you and I are hearing scratching from your 823. My custom 74 doesn’t make that sound unless I’m scratching out a word. Like you said it may be your nib... which I could possibly agree because your line with as you wrote (even though you just inked it up) is a bit wide for a fine ....... anyway I’m hoping its because of the paper youre writing with.
Looks like the ink is bleeding on that paper - wrong paper for fountain pens maybe? I have a Pelikan M800 with fine nib, and to me it's more like a B nib when compared to a M200 fine nib. Pelikan offers an exchange of the nib to any size F, M or B for free. EF nib will be charged with 79€. I took the plunge and asked for the EF nib exchange. It was horrible, there was really bad inkflow and I couldn't get used to the feeling ot it. In the end I returned the EF nib and I'm using original the F nib now. I still think it's too bold but the size of the pen and look is just my favorite. I recently got a Pilot falcon with a SEF nib and I have to say I really love writing with it because it makes my handwriting appear clear and precise.
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong pens, but in my money (AUD) the Pilot M800 is $700 and the Pelican 823 is $287, that's better than half the price of the Pilot. Sort of like comparing a Ford Fiesta to a 3 Series BMW in price. Given the closeness (and assuming you are not averse to vacuum filling) the Pelican 823 would win hands down on price alone. OR am I looking at the wrong pens?
@@Doodlebud That would be wonderful. I have seen different measurements given in different places. Specifically for the M800 I have seen measurements stated variously at 10.5, 11.0, and 11.6 mm. My cheap caliper measures my 823 section at 10.6 narrowest and 11.4 widest. It will help me a LOT if you can give me similar section data on the M800, narrowest and widest points.
Easy comparison. 805 is beautiful, mechanically excellent and writes like a well polished nail. 823 is just plain ugly, so ugly, is mechanically really good and writes like a fantasy of a perfect nib right out of the box. They are two of the four pens I always have inked.
I wish my M800 nib could feel like the 823 nib. Out of the box M800 is too broad and too wet and fussy with hard starts and skips. The 823 is beautiful. I often have troubles with Pelikan nibs whereas all my Pilots were amazing out of the box.
Mine were the opposite LOL. 823 is too wet for my preference and a bit too much feedback. I love the pen, but find my Pelikan provides a better writing experience
FIGHT! XD I didn't know the Pilot was a Japanese pen, the name is unusual. It is a hard choice between the 2, I really like the looks of both of them, but as you said, the Pelikan nib looks slightly better with the 2 tones. The piston fill mechanism was really cool, I usually carry pens in my pocket and sometimes they unscrew, I would worry about that with these piston pens.
The odd time the Pelikan cap gets a little bit loose, haven't had that with the pilot. These I always keep in a pen case. Too expensive to toss in my pocket. I prefer my pocket pens to be metal
However veering towards flex on the one hand and italic/music nibs on the other I’d say that for me Pilot nibs are outstanding. For me it would be the Pilot 823 Custom every time with the proviso that it came ready fitted with the FA nib. I find Pelikan pens strangely in-engaging to write with. Not so the Pilot. Pleased to hear that both pens score equally on build quality. Thank you.
It's not any "easier" to clean either one it's that you can actually see the tiny bits of ink/water vapor in the Pilot. It's the same in the Pelikan, but since you can't see them your CDO (OCD in correct alphabetical order) doesn't fire up.
Well, Polit is a Japanese brand, if you write anything in Japanese or Chinese, maybe you will need a little bit of scratchiness there for you. But that's personal too.
this video is very informative, BUT I think this is not the "right" comparison for both pens. The Pilot Custom 823 is comparable to the Kaweco PVD Gold, the Diplomat Excellence A2, Faber-Castell E-Motion, or maybe a Diplomat Aero with a 14C Nib. All are excellent fillers and in the same price range. If you want to compare a Pilot pen with a Pelikan one, I'd take the Pilot Custom 845. Both are more or less in the same price range, both have bi-colored nibs, just the materials are not "that" comparable. I think the "right" comparison would be a Pelikan Souverän M805 and a Montblanc 146, a Pilot Custom 823 with a Sailor 1911. There is one very important element about comparisons between Western and Japanese fillers, the last ones are made to build kanjis and not to write cursive, that is the reason why Japanese fillers are made to write finer lines.
It is cheaper than Rhodia etc, but still fountain pen friendly. For the 823, regardless of the paper it's still scratchy. Sometimes you get a nib that's just a bit off. It's still a fantastic pen, & if a different box with the same fine nib was picked from the shelf when my order was filled, I'm confident it would be smoother.
Me so jelly for your M1005!!! 🤤 That for me is a serious grail pen. That & an Omas 360 or and Omas with Arco. What size nib did you go with for your 1005? Is it the Stresemann?? 🤤🤤🤤
Doodlebud Yes it's the Stresemann EF but writes like a broad. I ordered the 1000 EF nib. The 00 series nibs seem to write better than the 05s. Maybe just me.
@@Hawker900XP daaaauuuummmm didn't known the 1000s wrote that much thicker, thanks for sharing that valuable info right there! 👍 I haven't had the fortune to compare 00 vs 05 nibs to see any difference. I thought it was just a difference in the finish.
@@Hawker900XP I can’t understand the problem I hear regarding line width of Pelikan nibs. Some say they write like a “fire hose”. I have a new M800 fine nib and it writes like a Western fine. The vendor was asked to check and tune the nib prior to shipping and it is exactly what I ordered. Maybe not every retailer does this as a free service.
Great comparison. I have them both. I love them both very hard choice. I will say however that if you like a smooth nib my pilot 823 is so smooth it's like writing on glass. I prefer the Pelikan M1000 over the 805. Much easier to clean the Pelikan. My Pilot 823 is a medium and it's Super Smooth. In fact the smoothest fountain pen in my collection. First time I wrote with it I was shocked
Yeah it ain't cheap. I tried a 400 & 600 at a pen club meeting, but they were just too small for me to enjoy. The 600s have a bunch of colour options too!
Oh damn you're right. I did that on my phone with emojis and didn't notice the sideways mix up! LOL thanks for pointing it out. You passed my test, I was testing people all along! I'll fix it now
The 823 is definitely not worth the money. The barrels easily crack due to subpar plastic and the gaskets that seal force it so disassembly or not. The fact that Pilot says don’t disassemble is a cop out. This is especially true given the prolific Chinese clones that allow complete tear downs. For this reason, the 823 is a joke. If you love the nib, get a 743
@@Doodlebud tbh, my actual favorite is, "Amazingly, few discotheques provide jukeboxes." But the inclusion of a recently imported word makes it second place. Plus it doesn't explicitly declare use of alcohol, so it misses that 'party' vibe I so enjoy in my citations.
My 823 hasn’t been inked in years. I’ve had a Pelikan M605 inked everyday for years. I prefer the M600 weight to the M800 line. I prefer the M800 to the 823 also. Pelikans are utterly dependable and a joy to write with. The 823 nib is not as pleasurable. I much prefer the Pelikan filler.
@@Doodlebud indeed - I'm in Europe and here we can get the Pilot for about 250€ and the Pelikan is around 450€ but it depends on the day and position of the Planets. I managed to get two M1000s for less than the M800 last year (per pen).
@@Doodlebud Yes - no more cheap UK import to continental Europe after Brexit. 20-25% VAT on top of everything. I got e pre-brexit M1000 "B" nib in Green stripe for 376€ last year from Purepens in the UK.
Depends on where you purchase the pen. My M805 was about $100 more than my 823. If cost is the only factor, a $3 zebra fountain pen would be better than both of these pens
After being in the hobby, and approaching two years, I have to place these two into the aspirational/orthodox fountain pen category. I am not there yet, but included with this group, would be Visconti HS, and MB146. Standard inks, lighter use, cleaned frequently. A tie between both pens in this round.
I was unaware of the international standard price differential limit set by the Institute of RU-vid pen reviews. I'll be sure moving forward all comparisons of pens are all priced within $0.20 of each other. Otherwise it sounds like I'm breaking the laws set in place by the governing body
I understand where you come from, but right now in Germany I would need to pay 350€ for each of these. I know the Pelikan hast a full price of 450€, but you can get one easily for 350, which is the price of the Pilot as well. So in reality it's the same at this moment
First, I wish eople would learn the difference between "scratchy", "rough", and feedback". It's aoften difficult to know what a complaint is when the complainer doesn't know the difference. "Scratchy" means the tines are misaligned. The nib will literally scratch the paper at times. This will only happing in one direction, left to right, or right to left. "Rough" means the tipping hasn't been polished properly. Roughness usually happens in every direction. "Feedback" is intentional. Some people enjoy a bit of feedback. Good pencil feedback. t's caused by intentional grinding and polishing the nib a certain way. And it will make a nib last decades longer. Fully eight opercent of nibs, particularly on high quality pens, are over-polished at the factory, just a hair short of baby's bottom because, well, this is how the RU-vid generation demands their nibs, as silly as it is. RU-vid did the same thing to the world of knives. Anyway, these three terms are not interchangeable. Pelikan nibs, like Platinum and some Sailor nibs, are known for having some feedback. This is NOT a bad thing. If you have a Pilot nib that isn't butter on glass smooth, you should send it back. Or frame it. You found a very rare nib. This is triply true with the 823. It doesn't just have the reputation of having the best nib under five hundred dollars, it has the science to prove it. Depending on personal taste, the Pelikan may be the prettier of the two. I think it's one of the ugliest pens made. but I think pens are beautiful that other people hate. There is, however, no comparison in nib and writing quality. You may find an individual Pelikan that's better than an individual 823, but nine times out of ten, the 823 will have a smoother nib. If you're wise enough to put a soft nib on the 823, and a gold nib that isn't soft, which is not the same thing as "flex", makes very little sense, the contest doesn't even matter in individual cases. Pilot makes the best soft nibs by far, while Pelikan barely makes adequate soft nibs. In truth, Pelikan, Platinum, Sailor, and Pilot are are good brands, but Sailor and Pilot are three steps above the other two, once you get into the next level of pens.
Buttery smooth nibs were always a selling point, it's not the modern invention. There is a lot of old pen advertisements on the web to that effect. In more modern times, if you, say, search archives of alt.collecting.pens-pencils, you will find the same topics, including searches for pens with the smoothest nib, surprises that Varsity is so smooth, and so forth, dating all the way to the start of ACPP at the beginning of the 1990-s. My personal observation is that the notion of "nice feedback" became widespread around the beginning of the 2000-s. There's nothing wrong with preferring nibs with feedback, and nothing wrong with preferring glassy smooth nibs.
