Pennsylvania's Keystone High Speed Rail Corridor at True High Speed?

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Looking at the Federal Railroad Administration's high speed rail Keystone Corridor and what it would be like to build a true HSR line from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The route runs through the Appalachian Mountains, Harrisburg, and Lancaster It would potentially service 9 million in Pennsylvania.
Leave a comment and also join the continuing discussion at the Discord Lucid Group: / discord
0:00 Intro
0:13 The Keystone Region
1:30 HSR Guiding Principles
3:25 Philadelphia-Harrisburg Tilting Only
4:36 Philadelphia-Lancaster HSR
8:37 Lancaster-Harrisburg
10:00 Harrisburg-Pittsburgh
20:23 Pittsburgh International
20:42 Travel Times
22:12 Costs
23:10 Up Next
23:24 See You On That Big, Beautiful Freeway!
Video clips used from Pexels.com and Pixabay.com. Both are excellent free video clip and image repositories.
Image attributions:
By Raymond Wambsgans from Akron Ohio, USA - Amtrak Pennsylvanian GE P42DC approaching Altoona Pennsylvania, CC BY 2.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
A westbound SEPTA Paoli/Thorndale Line local on Track #4, westbound Amtrak Pennsylvanian (New York to Pittsburgh) on Track #3, and eastbound Amtrak Keystone Service (Harrisburg to New York) on Track #1 all meet at the curve on the four track Keystone Corridor in Rosemont, located about eleven miles west of Philadelphia. While normally pulled by GE Genesis P42DC diesel electric locomotive, on this run the "Pennsylvanian" was being powered by a AEM-7 electric locomotive (#924) as far as Harrisburg where it would have to change to diesel as the Norfolk Southern owned grade from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh is not electrified. The eastbound "Keystone Service" train is being pushed by a AEM-7 (#950) as well. Built, owned, and operated for more than a century by the Pennsylvania Railroad, since April 1, 1976, the grade (including all stations) between Philadelphia (30th Street Station) and Harrisburg (MP 105.2) has been owned and operated by Amtrak over which SEPTA also has operating rights for its Philadelphia regional rail commuter service between Zoo Interlocking (MP 1.9) and Cork Interlocking (MP 68.1) although by agreement between SEPTA and PennDOT, revenue service is prohibited west of Parkesburg (MP 44.2), the last station in Chester County. This portion of the grade was electrified by the PRR in 1915. Photograph by Bruce C. Cooper (original uploader)
A westbound SEPTA Paoli/Thorndale Line regional rail train departing from the Bryn Mawr station. Photograph by Bruce C. Cooper (original uploader)
Topics:
Amtrak
Keystone Service
Pennsylvanian
Amtrak Airo
Alstom Avelia Liberty
Acela
SEPTA
SEPTA Airport Line
Villanova
Berwyn
Exton
Coatesville
Elizabethtown
Harrisburg International Airport
Carlisle
Pennsylvania
Red Rose Transit Authority
Capital Area Transit
Breezewood
Everett
Somerset
Norfolk Southern
Pittsburgh Regional Transit
Monroeville
New York City
NEC
Northeast Corridor

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14 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 232

@de-fault_de-fault 7 месяцев назад

The amount of time it takes to get from Philly to Pittsburgh currently is beyond annoying...For me in the NYC area, Pittsburgh feels too far to drive, too close to fly, and it's just too slow by train (not to mention just one train per day currently). I would love to see this happen.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

Ultimately we're talking about viable and competitive options. At least I am. That's what I want any time I'm going anywhere: as many good options as possible that I can pick from. Whether it be HSR or just better passenger rail than current, good roads, good airports, good transit...

@ommy7672 7 месяцев назад

It's drivable I've done it

@de-fault_de-fault 7 месяцев назад

@@ommy7672 I’ve done longer drives than that (Indianapolis and Toronto to name two) but Pittsburgh just annoys me because it seems close enough that the train should be way faster than driving, yet it just isn’t that way right now.

@ema63613 Месяц назад

This would be high speed from New York to Pittsburgh for around 20 billion. So here's my first question: What would be the cost/time for high speed from Pittsburgh to St. Louis going thru Indianapolis? Second question: Cost/time of St. Louis to Albuquerque? Last question: Cost/time of Albuquerque to Los Angeles?

@oldgandy5355 7 месяцев назад

I like the "flyover" depiction showing the terrain considerations. Makes the entire presentation much easier to understand. Good job.!

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

It's a nightmare, right? I'd love to go visit there some time. Seems like really beautiful country. Just terrible for building in a straight line. :)

@oldgandy5355 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew I've been across central PA several times, but I find I prefer the northern route across on US 6 for scenery. It doubles the travel time, but the stress level is way down. Definitely not a good route for rail lines, high speed or low speed!

@pedromorgan99 7 месяцев назад

Grade separeted is more important. At 3 miles a minute u dont want and risk of anything in the way..

@iamsandrewsmith 7 месяцев назад

Wow -- 3 hours and 47 minutes from Pittsburgh to NYC? My recent Amtrak trip on that route took 10 hours, so that's a ... slight improvement. Also, the current route is 444 miles, so using the PA Turnpike right of way saves distance. Incidentally, the Turnpike's right of way began life as the South Pennsylvania Railroad.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

That's with a moderately high-speed route, not trying to push it or anything. An improved NEC main line would cut about another half hour off that.

@neighborhoodpranksters6214 7 месяцев назад

Wow, what a great video! As someone from the Pittsburgh region who has looked plenty into the current rail infrastructure of the state, I never would have thought that the I76 idea would be possible like that. Explained excellently!

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

Having made quite a few of these videos now, I've come to realize that all routes are possible, and the question comes down to expense. I've had to tackle a couple of ideas that I thought could not be done at first glance. However, in committing myself I not only found a way, but it was easier than I imagined when I first saw the light at the end of the tunnel. Although, I think that's generally the case in life.

@H3lue 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew Not sure how feasible that ending 5 mile tunnel though under Pittsburgh would be. Pittsburgh has been trying to build a just 2 mile subway from Oakland(neighborhood) to Downtown for over a century now and they've estimated that tunnel would cost $2 billion alone. Now I know economy of scale factors in to HSR to make the cost cheaper but still...

@matthewgarcia1499 4 месяца назад

Agreed plus I love how it makes use of those existing abandoned tunnels as well..

@pineapplepizza27 7 месяцев назад

As a Lancaster native you have no idea how much the land use around the station bothers me. The PRR used to run straight through downtown 😮‍💨

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I was a bit surprised by all the open lots there. But with a HSR station on one end and the lovely downtown area on the other, I think there would be a lot of potential to improve the area around the station and in between.

@benhogan7036 6 месяцев назад

Check out the county’s train station area plan… give it a Google. The station will have a new entrance on the north side and mixed use development all around. Things are looking up!

@LucidStew 6 месяцев назад

@@benhogan7036 I wish I would have ran across that before the video. It's nice, but they're big fans of parking lots, for sure. One thing that struck me about the study was that the neighborhood just south of the station is 19.6% carless households. This is an opportunity to expand that, but they plan for TWO THOUSAND parking spaces...

@jasonkohl8033 5 месяцев назад

The only redeeming quality of the parking lots adjacent to the train station is that they're very cheap to redevelop into something useful when demand grows.@@LucidStew

@ThatBullB Месяц назад

Being a Lanc native, I hope the pronunciation of Lancaster irked your soul as much as it did mine! LAN-caster is in California. Lang-KISS-ter is in PA

@matthewconstantine5015 7 месяцев назад

That would be nice. I was giving serious thought to moving to Pittsburg, but when I saw the 7+ hour train ride to Philly... Nope. That's too removed from the Northeast Corridor. With a high speed connection, it makes the city much more attractive.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I see this as part of the narrative. Moving intercity and long distance rail out of an all-day or multi-day and into a reasonable travel time a person would expect from other modes. Flying would beat 3 3/4 hours hands down, but sub 4 hours is so much more convenient than 7 1/2.

@writtwoodson6879 4 месяца назад

About a week ago Citynerd produced a great video, revealing the strongest 56 city pairs. I was astonished how early Pittsburgh to New York popped up, then Pittsburgh to DC popped out with a strong showing. --- You were correct to look for a more southernly route across Pennsylvania, as opposed to the existing corridor. The best approach would get passengers from NYC/PHL along with DC and Baltimore traffic into the same corridor at Johnstown. --- Some of my ancestors lived in mountain towns in the 1850s when the railroad was first built. I realized that the existing route is where it is, because that is where the canals went. in 1850 --- An economic solution would take the PHL route from Mt. Union into Bedford and the DC and BAL traffic from Hagerstown into Bedford. --- Pennsylvania needs to work with Maryland like Virginia is working with North Carolina.

@LucidStew 4 месяца назад

Yeah, I liked that one as well. I think it has a couple of flaws. His gravity model tends to bias toward near city pairs that are maybe TOO close. His model is based on extremely rosy train performance, extremely poor airport performance, and extra car time that doesn't make much sense. I think the reality of the average HSR sweet spot triangle is a fair amount smaller than the one in the video. Also, he's not taking cost into account, which makes a big difference on routes that are going to be expensive for what you get, like NYC-Buffalo and Philadelphia-Cleveland. This is especially true when you combine that with his 165mph out-of-the-city average cruising speed. Both those routes would be so expensive with the amount tunnelling that would require...

@lestismyname 7 месяцев назад

Even thouhg it's just bus service, the bus service is really good and Lancaster is definitely surprisingly urbanist for it's size. I think the people would really benefit and really enjoy a high speed stop. Would also bring in easy tourism from around the country improving the town!

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I've not been there and my familiarity is through Google maps and a little research. However, it seemed like the downtown area was mostly capable of being elongated toward the station. I think it would be a good bookend to the downtown area over time, with the north end more residential, and the southern end more commercial. Might be nice to have a short trolley loop in there somewhere along with all that. The current downtown area is very charming and is certainly a draw.

@kyleansel1021 7 месяцев назад

I live in Lancaster and yes, the downtown area is slowly but surely making it's way north towards the station. Lots of mid-rise housing going up along N Queen St. and the station area has tons of mixed use zones and bike infrastructure proposed. Lot's of the undeveloped land around the station is finally getting used. LNC is PA"s second busiest station and the 21st busiest in the country. Many people (myself included) enjoy taking the train to Philly, and a high-speed service would be welcomed. @@LucidStew

@davidjackson7281 7 месяцев назад

Either this or Ohio's 3 Cs. Harrisburg to Pittsburgh coincidently is about the same distance (90%), travel time and construction cost as the proposed Brightline West route. Would prefer the $11.7 B alternative even though it is 55 minutes slower. A 3:30 ride would beat a car or the Pennsylvanian by 90 minutes and 4 hours respectively.

@tonywalters7298 7 месяцев назад

And would beat driving nonstop by about 1.5-2 hours depending on routing and traffic.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

Interesting take. I wonder what the existing route would look like with a tilting train. Or what these proposed routes would look like with a conventional high speed electric. I'll work on it for the Discord after I get done with the news.

@nickdueber2586 7 месяцев назад

Excellent content! This is really good and approachable. I would love to see this for all over the country. its awesome for people that are looking up specific corridors or city connection concepts for HSR.Keep up the good work! i look forward to each month's HSR update videos too!

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

Thanks. It was a ton of work. I'm glad it was appreciated. :)

@Robbi496 7 месяцев назад

Also PRR's Broadway Limited made NYC to Pittsburgh in 7.5 hours until the late 1960's!

@jg-7780 7 месяцев назад

Neat proposal! I'd probably add a stop on Bedford PA with a shuttle to Altoona, since Altoona has a metro population of 120K and is currently served by Amtrak.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

Generally the idea with HSR trunk lines is that they're meant to be a main branch in a rail network. Think of it as an interstate in relation to surface streets. In that regards, you'd have something like this IN ADDITION to the existing regional rail services along the Norfolk Southern ROW.

@jbreezy101 Месяц назад

I think HSR would be best served as having maybe 1-2 stops. I would think that there’d be none until Lancaster (SEPTA is expanding there in a few years) and none until Harrisburg (the local Amtrak trains can operate that) unless you build the airport stop. Then there would be 1-2 along the HAR-PIT route - one serving state college Huntingdon and Lewistown (shuttle or just keep running the Pennsylvanian) and another serving Johnstown and Altoona (this would be the most beneficial station if Amtrak puts it there). I also like adjusting the existing NS-run route to serve state college if possible.

@edwardmiessner6502 7 месяцев назад

When I saw the jagged Norfolk Southern route you showed, I said to myself, "Ugggh! Better to take 81 and the 'Pike!" Glad you have the same idea! 🥰

@kskssxoxskskss2189 7 месяцев назад

Wow, how have I not seen your channel before. Baaad algorithm, bad bad, because my feed includes lots of other train and transit stuff. This is by far the best I have seen on this aspiration, and shout out to some really informative comments as well. Like so many others, my hope is for the 3CD (includes Dayton) on a multiple run daily schedule. Considering the constant and apparently futile efforts to streamline the 71-70 interchange in Columbus, and the good cities to the west, there needs to be an east-west route to at least Kansas City (not the current crap that sends us to Chicago first) and east into the unconnected cities of West Virginia and eastern Ohio.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I like the Chicago Hub area a lot for regional HSR, although I agree on a de-emphasis on Chicago within that. Eventually I'm going to make a video where I try to approach that from a more European style with metro bypasses and trunks between, so attempting to drive THROUGH Chicago is removed as a concern and the inevitable slow-down through urban areas is avoided. Might be my next one. I'll have to think about it.

@PandemicSoul 5 месяцев назад

9:40 Pittsburgh is currently building a smaller airport and preparing to demolish its overbuilt one in the next 10 years.

@owenmorris5441 7 месяцев назад

Great video! Would love to see your plan for HSR between DC and Norfolk/VA Beach using a crossing over the Hampton Roads between Newport News and Norfolk. What a game changer this route would be connecting DC, Richmond, the peninsula (Newport News, and Hampton) and Norfolk / VA Beach!

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

Southeast Corridor will not be hurting for representation here, I can promise you that. There is a lot going on there and a lot to talk about. This topic is in there, for sure.

@MrJamieBattle 7 месяцев назад

That’s my home :)

@hdevine825 7 месяцев назад

This seems like the hilliest corridor video of yours I have seen. It is interesting to see the additional considerations that the elevation brings.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

And honestly, the more I look at it, I'm probably underestimating some of these tunnel lengths. It would have really helped if I'd been able to drive I-76 just once. In 3D staying near the interstate at an acceptable grade is far from straight forward in places, so it goes beyond just drawing a line. It makes me appreciate the engineering that went into the existing routes in the area realizing some of these are well over a 100 years old.

@nikolasmarosfalvy2691 Месяц назад

This one is worth every penny poured into it IMO. Major E-W connector for highest level NYC-CHI HSR plans.

@JakieJake88 7 месяцев назад

Thank you for the analysis! As someone who had frequented this route (live in Greensburg, traveling to/from NYC and Philly) I’ve always imagined HSR. My only major concern would be the politics that HSR met with California’s. Eliminating other metro areas just for times sake wouldn’t be DOA. You’d have to connect Altoona, Johnstown, and Greensburg. One route I’ve always played with is diverting a bit and hitting State College since it’s a large university town. Then you’d be able to hit the three previously mentioned cities, you’d find some more flat ground going along some of the mountain, and would probably find actual funding.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

But then you run into CAHSR's financial problems trying to be all things to all people. Ultimately SOMEONE must be skipped and maybe we're better off in the U.S. getting used to the idea that HSR is actually not for small markets. For those we would want regional rail feeder lines. And then you have the HSR trunk/regional feeder chicken or egg quandary, but in that case I support the chicken first.

@thedapperdolphin1590 7 месяцев назад

None of those places you listed have large enough populations to really justify having high speed rail connected to them.

@JakieJake88 7 месяцев назад

@@thedapperdolphin1590First off, fantastic name 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 I think the overall issue with not having a stop between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg is you’re missing A LOT of people who take that train. Again, having ridden it frequently, there’s a good amount of people that get off and on in that area. And to assume they’d just go to Pittsburgh is not going to happen - Greensburg is about 55 min and would be the only feasible one; Johnstown is almost 2 hours and Altoona over 2 hours away. Plus the other stops already on the Keystone Service that have been cut.

@JakieJake88 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStewI totally understand and agree with the chicken/egg problem. It’s definitely a Catch 22. As I mentioned above, the issue is the Keystone line overall is successful because of how many people take it between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg that you’d be cutting off. To assume strictly that Pittsburghers would take it is a pretty big jump for supporting financially. Also, the 376 corridor is unfortunately not viable at all. It is VERY hilly and you’d have to knock down a lot of buildings for it to fit 😬 I’m honestly not trying to be a pessimist haha I’ve just thought about this a lot and I would love for it to happen and just have thought about the realistic way it could happen financially and physically

@IrishBavarican 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew As much as following the Turnpike would be the optimal route, going from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh without hitting a single city in "Pennsyltucky" would never, ever happen in this state. The GOP has controlled the State Assembly for almost 30 continuous years and will probably control it for at least a dozen more. And they're able to do that by holding all the areas that the Turnpike route skips (and doesn't even pass near). If proper passenger rail ever comes to PA, it will have to be a slower, more inclusive route.

@brennanconway3728 7 месяцев назад

Pennsylvania's GDP is 722bn so assuming a 10 year time frame the strict alignment alternative is 0.15% of PA GDP. The more expensive option is still only 0.26% of GDP over 10 years. The tax increase required to fund this would be negligible if even required at all

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

Seems pretty doable over a 15-20 year process, especially with federal help. Philadelphia-Harrisburg has already seen significant strides in terms of sealing the corridor. I ran across a chart in my research where the big draw for this line is actually Harrisburg-NYC, but Philly gets you on the NEC, so the connectivity for Pittsburgh could be a huge driver for traffic. Of course at 7 1/2 hours that doesn't exist now.

@brennanconway3728 7 месяцев назад

This would make Lancaster (and maybe even Harrisburg) commutable to Philly and would be a huge boon to those cities which already have high Amtrak ridership and regional ties to southeastern PA. ROI on the eastern section is a no brainer As someone who currently lives in Pittsburgh I'd personally love the HSR across the state but unless you also connect it to Cleveland/Columbus and on to Chicago I'm not sure the case for the western section is quite as strong since there are no major towns or cities between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh. There's obviously high travel demand between Pittsburgh and points east but that's a lot of money and a lot of rough terrain to cross to connect to what is essentially a single mid-sized city that's been losing population for 70 years If you do build this, the 11bn alternative is probably a more reasonable investment. It would still beat driving and probably even flying between Pittsburgh and Philly, and might even be competitive with a flight to NYC

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

Yeah, I agree on the Chicago Hub side. This is one of those connector routes that becomes much more compelling with build out of the corridors it would connect. I'll cover Pittsburgh-Cleveland, and possible Pittsburgh-Columbus eventually.

@thedapperdolphin1590 7 месяцев назад

The Pittsburgh metro area is rather large though. A lot of people just moves further into the county. The city is just artificially smaller than it needs to be because the county is so broken up, and the city hasn’t expanded its territory unlike other cities. But a Pittsburgh to Columbus extension would make so much sense. I can’t imagine it not happening natural following a successful PA rail line, especially if the 3 C Ohio rail line also happens. Pittsburgh is in a really good position because it’s basically the connecting point between the northeast and the Midwest, so basically everything going between those two regions would have to pass by. The only other option would be a stop in Erie on the way to Buffalo from Cleveland, but there’s no way that would happen before a Pittsburgh/Columbus connection.

@andrewgreen376 7 месяцев назад

The mushroom cloud icons for demolition at 9:13 were sort of amusing to me considering Three Mile Island is sitting at the bottom of that image.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I noticed Three Mile Island while looking at the area to put things together. I always thought it was closer to the coast. I totally didn't make the connection when I was putting in the demolition nukes. Thankfully I didn't do anything like that out by Somerset where the Flight 93 Memorial is.

@EuropeanMapping 7 месяцев назад

Another good video

@ToviahBotwinik 7 месяцев назад

This is one my favorites that you've done! Maybe this is because I'm from the region, but this seems like one of the most worthwhile ones considering the cost and the connections. Cutting the trip down by 5 hours and essentially eliminating the need to fly between these cities would be amazing!

@futon2345 7 месяцев назад

That would be awesome

@Whatneeds2bsaid 7 месяцев назад

Great video as always! Man oh man, that west of Harrisburg geography is *tough*! It’s kinda crazy that the feds rammed a highway through there. As mentioned by others, I could get behind this if Pittsburgh is connected to Chicago, otherwise this is gonna have to wait. Not a geologist (and I can’t find it now), but I read an article a while back about how a lot of leftover coal waste might make tunneling through the Appalachians more complicated, so we need compelling networks on both sides to really justify the endeavor.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

Initially I thought "ok, straight line". Then I took a good look at the map and thought "how is this going to be possible?", then I took an even better look and it wasn't as bad as I thought. But, that's usually how these videos go. :D

@ChrisJones-gx7fc 7 месяцев назад

the original Pennsylvania Turnpike followed a railroad right of way graded by the New York Central that never became a railroad. NYC built it to compete with the Pennsylvania Railroad, its biggest rival for New York-Chicago traffic, in response to the Pennsylvania building a parallel route to NYC's along the west side of the Hudson River. That route later fell under NYC ownership, and remains a busy freight route today for CSX.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Yeah, I noticed pretty quickly that all the best routes across the Appalachians there were already taken for some reason. 😄

@edwardmiessner6502 7 месяцев назад

14:53 A DC to Chicago HSRy can join your suggested route at Breezewood PA. A flying J and a station would do wonders for Breezewood and keep the trains from possible interference with each other. No longer would Breezewood be just a glorified truck stop with TRAFFIC LIGHTS on the interstate!

@Cptn.Viridian 7 месяцев назад

Great analysis, but I always want to see what you happen if we just said screw terrain and drilled some huge Allegheny base tunnels instead. As the shortest path (as the crow flies) between a potential Chicago hub and the Northeast megalopolis it could be more worth it within a nationwide HSR plan, if a biiiiiit of a stretch construction/money wise.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

It really kind of depends where you start and where you end. My first thought was straight line between where I-76 enters the 'valley and ridge' and Latrobe, PA where NS would take it the rest of the way to Pittsburgh. However, the area around Johnstown was such an intense nightmare that I immediately threw in the towel.

@lindsiria 7 месяцев назад

I love these videos as I've thought about HSR routes a ton over the years. I'd love for you to do a Vancouver, Seattle, Portland route... As I haven't been able to figure out a way through north Seattle to King Street Station without it costing tens of billions. (Seattle has very little room to build, even underground). It makes me think that HSR will likely go to Bellevue instead of Seattle. I'd love to know what you'd think.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

Oooooh, so make ME do it... Pacific Northwest is 3 videos away in this series.

@lindsiria 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew haha yes. I don't have the video editing skills to make my own videos! Plus, I love to see other people opinions, especially well thought out opinions like yours. I can't wait to see more of this series! Thanks again

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

@@lindsiria I recently had to back off on pace because I was getting increasingly bad repetitive use effects in my mouse elbow. Having adopted a bi-weekly release schedule rather than weekly, things are improving. I'm hoping to be able to manage 3 releases a month. At that pace, it shouldn't be TOO long before I get to it. Guessing 3-4 months.

@marcusnavarra8356 7 месяцев назад

Crossing the Appalachians with HSR is one of those things that is going to be very complicated. They will probably have a computer find the optimal route.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

One component left out here is geotechnical, and that is one aspect that could change things wildly. My general assumption was that tunneling near existing tunnels would be reasonable. That's not the smallest assumption. It's definitely a tricky area to try to get a huge engineering project through.

@marcusnavarra8356 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew They'll probably get a computer model to spit out a few different routes and then find which one poses the least risk, geotechnically. The most likely outcome is that the best crossing is somewhere else in the Appalachians, and we'll just build one really good route and funnel all HSR services between the east coast and the midwest over the one crossing. From that perspective, it makes sense to locate the crossing further south, since it would allow better connections between the southeast and the midwest. There's also the issue of competition between a keystone HSR and an Empire Corridor HSR. Building two routes that close to eachother doesn't make economic sense.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

@@marcusnavarra8356 I don't have any idea where the most geotechnically pleasing route would be. However, at about 1,000 miles in length I think the Appalachians could support more than 3 HSR crossings. Of course as it stands now, that sounds excessive. However, if we're talking a situation far into the future where there are thousands of miles of HSR in the U.S., that might make sense.

@MikeWiggins1235711 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew It sure sounds like this is a job for ... maybe ... Switzerland? Sitting back and looking at the whole HSR problem between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh, it makes one wonder how rivers like the Susquehanna and the Hudson were able to cut a way through the Appalachians at ALL! Maybe Nature is pointing out an easier way to cross the mountains starting at Harrisburg, forget Pittsburgh, and go for the bigger prize of better HSR connectivity from New York/Philadelphia to Chicago by heading north to Williamsport, PA, then making a hard left and continuing to Youngstown, OH. Easy for ME to say, huh? 🤭 Great analysis job, Stew, as always!!

@IrishBavarican 7 месяцев назад

@@MikeWiggins1235711 The Susquehanna is actually older than the Appalachians. It didn't cut through them, the upheaval of the earth's crust wasn't powerful enough to displace its flow. That's why all the cuts through the mountains are called water gaps instead of canyons.

@timnewman1172 7 месяцев назад

Have you considered doing a video on a high-speed route from Kansas City to the Twin Cities? It could be a worthy project, especially if it also connected the Des Moines metro area in this route...

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I have not, but I will add it to my city pair list.

@timnewman1172 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew Cool, thanks!

@emperor192 6 месяцев назад

I wanted to let you know that there has been a study done on this possible hsr route which was not using the I76 corridor. The route would go up to state college and go further to pittsburgh. The reason this route was thought to be better is due to hitting many more towns and cities than the I76 route (they did a study on this one too).

@LucidStew 6 месяцев назад

What's the name of the study?

@emperor192 6 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew Pennsylvania high speed rail feasibility study on market demand.

@jbreezy101 Месяц назад

Nice. I would love to see rail to State College, would definitely affect the State College Regional Airport but be fun. The fullington bus station used to be a train station before the tracks were ripped out. And that station is near the west end of State College and the University.

@gingercat7925 Месяц назад

That would be awesome for game days.

@rebeccawinter472 3 месяца назад

Super great analysis. I sorta love this - and your principles at the beginning. Would be great to maybe cover some of your analysis in the visualizations - either before or during. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@LucidStew 3 месяца назад

I do that in the City Pair series. The point of the visualization series is to provide some lighter reading, so to speak. The 3D visualization, however, will be in all of my videos going forward, so you can kind of imagine where it might be in places in videos like this.

@rebeccawinter472 3 месяца назад

@@LucidStew absolutely. Just a vote for emphasizing the “why” and “how” of the routes you choose in addition to the “what” (and how fast), when you present the visualizations. Thank you!

@alexisdespland4939 7 месяцев назад

in the Philly area to improve access to yje service the broad street m subway line should get a branch service ending at the Cornwallis heights station in northern Phildelphia. it would run via both the northeastern philadaphia airport and the massive regional mall at frankly mills,

@ndueber 7 месяцев назад

Dude awesome content love your videos

@timnewman1172 7 месяцев назад

The route obviously has challenges, but the time difference makes it a worthy project...

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

IF the cost estimate is close, and in the broader scheme for connecting NEC and Chicago Hub, $20 billion seems reasonable to me.

@jbreezy101 Месяц назад

LGA to PBZ has a block time of 2 hr and you would need to be at origin for 45-90 mins followed by destination for 20-40 mins so 3-4 hours. This matches the NYC-PIT train time proposed here. Nice.

@oo3456sights 4 месяца назад

It would be awesome if at some point you posted a link to some of these maps you make, with the full detailed alignments. They’re so interesting, would be cool to see the actual map

@LucidStew 4 месяца назад

Thanks for reminding me. I need to start putting these up on my website so they can be accessed. I'm at the tail end of a major tech upgrade for the channel. Once that settles down I can get to the business of supporting the channel better from outside YT.

@matthewgarcia1499 4 месяца назад

Impeccable work! - You Send this video to PennDot and Amtrak.... Let them hire you and pay you generously to consult for them cuz you have more brains and common sense!!

@LucidStew 4 месяца назад

I appreciate your support 😄

@matthewgarcia1499 4 месяца назад

Sure _ let them rebuild Pittsburgh Union Station its trash with Amtrak presently@@LucidStew

@guagadu7804 7 месяцев назад

The trains currently stop in both Elizabethtown and Middletown, so smoothing those curves wouldn't make a huge impact on the current service, though obviously would for a potential express service that doesn't stop. I think Harrisburg airport's top destination is Philly (probably mostly connecting passengers), so skipping that station makes sense, especially if the route was somehow extended to the airport (or some agreement with Septa for easy transfers is set up), and some kind of codeshare tickets with American Airlines (the main airline in Philly), like Lufthansa does with Deutsche Bahn in Germany, would probably get a lot of passengers on the train. Improving the connection to Pittsburgh to something comparable to the driving time though is probably the biggest thing that could increase the number of passengers. I've taken the entire route a couple times, and the trains have always been packed between NY and Philly, and then pretty empty between Philly and Harrisburg, filling up the closer it is to Philly.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I would have very much liked a station at Harrisburg International but for the factors mentioned in the video and the fact that they only have a dozen gates and their footprint is not large. If it could have served some reasonable function as a regional helper, it would have looked more attractive. With the state of PIT and PHL there just isn't any need for that. I saw some statistics during my research that more traffic on Keystone Service from Harrisburg was headed for NYC than Philadelphia, which I found interesting.

@guagadu7804 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew I lived in PA for a while, and in my observation that's probably because NY has a reputation of being absolute hell to drive in, which Philly does not. People from outside of the city also don't seem to know about Septa, while New York's subway is world famous. Harrisburg does have a direct highway connection to both cities, so since most people will have to drive to the station anyway, it makes sense that those people would just choose to drive all the way to Philadelphia.

@EpicThe112 7 месяцев назад

Speaking of your Harrisburg Pittsburgh section looks like your trying to rebuild the South Pennsylvania Railroad for HSR. How about Pittsburgh to Chicago HSR using Interstates 76 80 90 route.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

It is on the menu, but it will probably be a little while.

@topsnek4603 7 месяцев назад

Y'know, the Capitol Corridor Vision Plan has ambitions to eventually upgrade the line to a top speed of 150mph. Have you considered making a video breaking down the viability of that?

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I have not, but its a good idea. I could do that as a city pair video or after I've worked through the FRA HSR corridors.

@carlsmith5545 7 месяцев назад

I drive to Pittsburgh pa from Lancaster pa takes me 4 or 5 hours.

@michaelengelhardt5336 7 месяцев назад

The philly to harrisburg section would absolutely be worth it imo but that terrain in western PA is just terrible for HSR. The engineering difficulty and cost would not be worth it. Not to mention the environmental damage

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

Local opposition as well. The turnpike has run into some of that in places. I will say that the majority of the proposed routes is either in or adjacent to the interstate. Also, most of the deviations cut through hills the interstate has cut through, or farmland.

@richardmoore899 7 месяцев назад

like the fact you went for Route 76, though when I've mused this route I've gone for a NYC to Pittsburgh route via Allentown. though the route you took between Kenmar and Breezewood i feel you could easily achieve a straighter / slight S bend from north side of route 76 to run under the tunnel through the mountain range. coming back to parallel with Route 76 where it crosses Amberson Rd. basically taking a long sweep diagonally through the entire region. at breezewood go parallel with the Route 70/76 till Bedford for another long S Bend to south of Somerset. the take a roughly similar route as you have talk about before re-joining the rail system around Ardara. but with all the curving around valleys just tunnel through straitening it all out before re joining your route in Pittsburgh station. from Pittsburgh you could easily Y to Cleveland - Toledo and Chicago, I think it would be useful to aim to go though Pittsburgh international. but make it a useful transport hub. while the other way to a Very highspeed corridor for Columbus - Indianapolis - St louis and or Chicago.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I took a slightly different approach on this one. My usual motive has been to aim for 200mph in as many places as possible. This time starting at the interstate geometry and mainly staying there minus the slow speed curves resulted in this sticking to the interstate more than I would have otherwise. One example I can remember was Bedford, where I was tunnelling a couple miles south of I-76 rather than going up, around and through along I-76. Also not shying away from tunnels that ran through the ridges diagonally. Those original ideas were probably a little closer to what you're talking about.

@richardmoore899 7 месяцев назад

Maybe for a bit of fun, design one route New York to Chicago at 250MPH With the intention of competing with air travel between the two cities, and if you like try a Maglev route too XD though that basically draw a straight line between the two

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

@@richardmoore899 Yeah, I was going to say... maybe a 600 mile tunnel? :) Basically describes the hyperloop concept, so may as well run the trains at 600mph.

@christopherlloyd-roberts2205 3 месяца назад

This plan makes so much sense, if it could be well managed and properly funded, I bet this could be built within 5-10 years. Do we know what the economic benefits per dollar are for the quickest option as I have a feeling this would be huge for the intermediate cities, especially if Pittsburgh could then be connected to the likes of Cleveland, Detroit and Chicago?

@LucidStew 3 месяца назад

This is certainly one of the few potential high speed rail conduits through the Appalachians. Some people have proposed making it a 4-tracked main to allow large amounts of high speed traffic between the NEC and a built out Chicago Hub network, even straighter than my more expensive option. Unfortunately I don't have any cost-benefit numbers to present.

@tequestaorangejuice6673 4 месяца назад

What if you re-route from Lancaster to York and then Harrisburg? That way you can add a station at York (urban area population: 240,000). It would only add a few minutes while serving several thousand more citizens.

@LucidStew 4 месяца назад

Generally you're looking to minimize stops on an HSR route. Both Harrisburg and Lancaster is a something of a stretch already. Shorter hops you'd want to handle with local transit.

@mrbutch308 7 месяцев назад

We Pennsylvanians tend to preserve the English (i.e. British) pronunciations of place names of old England. Lancaster - pronounced as LANK-aster, not Lan-CAST-er - which is a city of the same spelling in California.

@frafraplanner9277 7 месяцев назад

Don't British people pronounce it the same way as Californians?

@mohammadqureshi7274 7 месяцев назад

With localities and companies looking to end work from home, has there been any surveys done to estimate the “base” ridership based on the aforementioned expected commute/travel times? Using the NEC as a basis, especially consider the upgrade plan, we should be able to determine which level of improvements provides the best cost to benefit ratio. Perhaps some sections can be the faster option (to speed up commuters going to work) while others can be the cheaper option. With the right data in hand, then the case should be made to the public with a realistic schedule of how long it would take and how it would be funded. Btw, excellent video laying out exactly where and why each upgrade is needed and what benefits would be gained from implementing it.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I'm working on it. I actually intended to have ridership estimates in this video, but then the production blew completely out of proportion and it took twice as long as normal, so I left out a bunch of things that I would normally put in one of these FRA HSR corridor videos. Hopefully I'll be able to get it into the next one. If I'm able, I will whip up some numbers(I've never used the software before, so I need to learn it) and will share them on the Discord server. Link is in the description.

@davidjackson7281 7 месяцев назад

Always appreciate your insightful questions and intelligent comments Mohammad.

@michaeljones7927 7 месяцев назад

@@davidjackson7281 And I always appreciate your polite and friendly responses, David, which are in stark contrast to the rude and sarcastic responses of some regular commenters on the various HSR channels.

@thastayapongsak4422 7 месяцев назад

A rural high speed train station is still beneficial, even if the town it is in itself is not large enough. It still serves the whole region.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

The region itself doesn't have enough population.

@riroo8275 Месяц назад

Wrt Pittsburgh: Worth pointing out here the present NS routing patterns actually have diverging mainlines, with the ascending route following an old PRR low-grade corridor up the Kiskiminetas and Conemaugh rivers (historically double tracked) and the historical PRR mainline being used, outside of the Pennsylvanian, for descending traffic only. I think that taking over the descending line from where it meets the Kiskiminetas route (somewhere around Bolivar) through Pittsburgh Penn Station and across the Allegheny River has enough benefits that it should be seriously looked at, not least kicking Norfolk Southern traffic out of the Pittsburgh Penn Station property. I think your ideas are about as good as it gets for the Turnpike alignment, but tbh kind of justifies my own longstanding position that the Appalachians represent a significant enough geographical challenge that the alignment should be designed around finding the straightest, flattest route with the least technical challenges *first* and then see how that can be fit to existing alignments (or make a new alignment if needed) *after*. Don't forget that central Pennsylvania is extremely rural!

@barthiddema3594 7 месяцев назад

Projects like these only really work when you have other services feeding into and along it. Regular intercity rail is non-existent outside of the NEC so you'd of course need to connect Pittsburgh with regular service towards Erie, into Ohio and into West-Virginia. To prevent more harmful suburbanization in the large cities you'd preferably also want people to move to smaller towns along the route and commute from there to the cities. That in combination with the rough terrain it might be better to choose for a maximum of 200kmh (125mph) rails and increase the number of stations on the line. This would make any express services between Philadephia and Pittsburgh about 30 minutes longer but you get so much more connectivity for regional rail between Philly and Pittsburgh. It all depends on what kind of HSR model you want. Do you want the French model where you have insanely short travel times between the largest cities and barely connect the people living in smaller cities. This model has a lot of long stretches of 300+kmh (186+mph). Or do you want the German model where you connect large and smaller cities with regular, but slower (still fast), service. This model has shorter stretches of upgraded track to 200kmh (125pmh) and in certain cases true high speed stretches. TLDR: use a bit slower rail to not only connect Philly and Pittsburgh but also connect people living in between.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

Bit of an oversight on my part, but this area is heavy with abandoned and disused rail routes from back in the coal and steel heydays. The Lancaster area, for instance used to have a tremendous network of commuter rail before cars and bus took over in the early 20th century. As I've said before, I think you get into something of a chicken or the egg situation with the high speed trunk and regional rail. I would said that if you build the regional rail first, the trunk will be that much more difficult. Whereas if you build the trunk first, it will build demand for regional rail.

@d1234as 6 месяцев назад

IMHO the best choice should be german model between Harrisburg and Philadelphia and french model between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh.

@patrickwebb7311 7 месяцев назад

This was a very interesting video. I think it may be worth upgrading the route to 110 mph at as much as possible, unless as others said the route connected to other hsr lines. Altjo any improvements woukd be better than putting more money into US 30. Having rode on it, I can safely say its a nightmare. I'd like to add on to a patt about Lancaster. I lived there a few years ago, and the Red Rose Transit Authority has a pretty good reach. You can get pretty far out into Lancaster County using it, although it could be improved.

@patrickwebb7311 7 месяцев назад

Also fun fact about Lancaster Station: in the 1930's the LMS Royal Scot train visited there on its North American Tour. You can see a photo of it in the station.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I'm going to look into some other options along these routes involving non-tilting trains, and/or the existing ROW and put those up in the Discord server next week. (since I have most of the data for that already). I would have put that in the video, but it was already 2 1/2 weeks in the making and 24 minutes. ':)

@CrazyJ628 7 месяцев назад

Are you going to do Indianapolis to Cincinnati to complete the Cincinnati to Chicago route?

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I can add it to the city pair list.

@trainluvr 5 месяцев назад

Money is no problem (if you are a defense contractor).

@Robbi496 7 месяцев назад

It seems that the American public does not seem to require "true" high speed corridors? The Capital Corridor is not super fast, but is well patronized, same with Lincoln Service and Hiawatha Service. I think that 80-110 mph if it is frequent and reliable will be successful. Brightline is exceeding all expectations and only exceeds 110 mph between Cocoa and Orlando Airport. BTW is is pronounced LANK-as-ter, not LAN-caster :)

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I would agree that reliability and frequency are an issue with American passenger rail, but wouldn't it also being faster be better? I think the current service is so poor in most areas we can't really be sure what the true demand is. If you look at places that have an extensive, competent passenger rail network with high speed trunks, usage shifts away from other modes. Usually not A LOT, but a percentage point here and there is a doubling or tripling of current U.S. passenger rail traffic.

@douglasengle2704 7 месяцев назад

7:22 High Speed Rail can handle grades of 3-1/2%. That is for going up grade, but going down grade the CAHSR specification requires speed restrictions down to 125 mph for grades exceeding 1.6%. Freight railroads tend to want to keep their ruling grades below 0.7%. Which is in the middle of the medium grade zone of 0.4% - 1.2%. The desire is for low grades of less than 0.4%. Old friction bearing cars could be spotted without brakes up to 0.4%. Going more than 1.2% grade places freight rail above medium grades and starts to require more specialized train handling. There can be momentum grades where the train it is expected to loose speed for a while and then get it back. Rail flyovers of about 1% grade make use of that. Railroad flyovers are typically retrofits. Mountain grades are 2.2% and higher. That grade limit was used by the US Congress for paying higher compensation for railroads being built through terrain requiring those extreme grades. Those grades exist, but it is extremely unlikely any railroad would build grades at that extreme grade just to get the higher compensation. The means for HSR to be created makes extensive use of tunnels, huge cuts and fills. Viaducts are undesirable because they are not as long lasting or stable as earth fills. There is extensive use of viaducts for cost savings and allowing easy under flow of other uses. Many of the HSR design and building firms in China specialize in tunnels and bridges because much of the bulk of HSR is made using them.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

The extra information is appreciated. I tend to generalize quite a bit because its necessary in order to get these videos out in a reasonable amount of time. However, easy to access rules like this help me a lot in making those generalizations more realistic.

@douglasengle2704 3 месяца назад

@@LucidStew I keenly remember June 1981 going back on the Broadway Limited and going up to see the locomotive in Harrisburg and I couldn't believe what I found, a GG1 in fresh classic Pennsylvania Railroad Tuscan red with gold pin stripes smelling like new transformers with a plaque stating it had been restored by a railroad club. GG1 left Harrisburg accelerating strong from a stop and just kept on going. I didn't time mile posts, but it was very fast compared to the disappointing slow trip I'd had going the other way. It seemed way over 100 mph I'm guessing 115 mph - 120 mph. South of Wilmington DE the GG1 really opened up. My ears would pop going under bridges, billboards went by at a blur. This time I did time mile posts and it was between 22 and 23 seconds. 22.5 seconds per mile is 160 mph. That seems about right. I'd been in cars at 140 mph and this speed was a big step above that. When we got into Union Station Washington two of the passenger cars had smoke coming from the area of their axle generators. We passed all the other passenger trains like they were standing still and they weren't. We even passed what looked like Metro-liner service with a 50 mph edge. I think it was an unofficial speed trial of a freshly restored GG1. Unofficial because they we're breaking a lot of rules! The crew of the GG1 was nowhere to be found at both Harrisburg PA and Washington DC. I liked the experience, but I was actually a bit scared at those top speeds. The passenger cars got strange vibrations and oscillations. The suspension didn't seem like it was able to keep up.

@richardsantiago429 7 месяцев назад

already station at middletown it serves penn state harrisburg,pa

@LucasDimoveo 7 месяцев назад

The red line at the bottom of the train made me think that I already watched this video 🤣

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I'll have to switch up the thumbnails a little more!

@brucehain 7 месяцев назад

Density-to-Density is the way to get passengers. As to whether that's important, not saying it's the only thing that matters. There's speed and capacity. My new PRR bypasses all those save Pittsburgh, with the only consolation being Easton/Bethlehem/Allentown and a quick connection down to Harrisburg. That last would probably lead to criticisms, but for going cross country it's direct and less built up.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

So where are the major places we're differing aside from Philly-Harrisburg?

@brucehain 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew Well I don't know due to my dilatory problem. (which I'm addressing today!) Never investigated Philly-Harrisburg much. I know it's very built up. The things you show look plausible/feasible to me, and going west. I once looked at abbreviating the existing line Harrisburg-Altoona. It's probably around somewhere, though am confused about what the reason behind it was, since probably would be almost as good re. intervening stops to just rely on a N-S connection to the trans-com along the Susquehanna. It's not politic though.

@brucehain 7 месяцев назад

Actually, now I think of it, had some interest in NY-H-burg by way of Allentown, Reading Lebanon, Hershey. That's built up almost all the way going west from Reading. Some beautiful stations but serious detailed work needed to provide grade separation without destroying everything. Also, is Carlisle out-of-the-way versus your alignment? Have looked a couple times briefly at that. Don't remember if I ever came up with any solution. Maybe not for high speed.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

@@brucehain Yep, through Carlisle and then shadowing I-76 most of the rest of the way. I think my assessment was a little more optimistic than reality. Looking at things so consistently from space prejudices me toward assumptions that flat-looking landscapes are actually flat, and its so time consuming surveying every foot of a 300 mile alignment in 3D and topo. Especially with this route, I would have loved the opportunity to drive it just once. I think it would have given me a lot of valuable impressional information. It's like when people talk about L.A.-Phoenix, and my first thought is always "you sure you want to try that?" because I'm pretty familiar with the eastern 100 miles of that at ground level. That and the crazy continuity of civilization over distance that most Americans outside of the I-95 corridor can't fathom.

@brucehain 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew May be presumptuous of me but did you know the Penna Tpk was first planned as a railroad? (there's a facebook page where this guy posts orig. drawings of the RR. I can't remember the name but will look it up.) As a child I always noticed how they did the turnpike: an inclined plane followed by a curve, with the point-of-vertical-intersection centered there, then another inclined plane at a different grade. That's the most efficient way for earth bound transportation, I believe, but circuitous spaghetti-like stuff is more preferred. (Don't ask me why) I donno how you do your drawing but I find the grade profiles in Google Earth indispensable for getting an idea of the terrain. They don't agree exactly with the elevations under the cursor that show at lower right, but as my tuning instructor used to say, they're good enough for Jazz. ('fraid I'm dating myself, inter alia) It may be presumptuousness again, but you can get the grade profile by right-clicking a line or path and hitting "Show Elevation Profile" in the context menu. That was indispensable for me doing the Barstow-Vegas part, one of the most difficult things as far as terrain that I've ever done. Grade Profile, the topo map (only for corroboration really) and changing the exaggeration to 3x at Tools menu > Options, then adjusting the view to a flat angle of attack and peering amidst the exaggerated mountains. (you have to go back to 0.01% exaggeration because the drawn lines get distorted at 3%.) I started that segment first considering a transcon thu Vegas about 5 years ago, thinking it must use the existing Barsow Sta. (now it turns out that's the best, with new lines entering it's the only location that allows access to all of them.) It never worked as I wanted. You'll see the long tunnel (11mi) is the biggest jog in the whole Anaheim-Vegas line. But at least it's all high speed, right? I often criticize engineers for going very circuitous in order to maintain high speed. (See HS2, Birmingham) But there's no other option there (S. of Prim) to keep the grade within reason. No, I don't think you're overoptimistic about going that route, it's long known as the best route to Pittsburgh. You could say it's rather rural for passenger service but my main line to the N. is clearly worse in that respect. (ruralness has it's advantages) Believe that prior to 1849 completion of the PRR they thought following the rivers better for avoiding extreme cuts, fills + tunnels. There's only the one big tunnel on that line. It wasn't opened till sometime in the 1850s. Then Conrail or their successor built a new one with a three percent grade right next to the old one. There have been some terrible accidents E. of there, though imagine braking technology is better now. There was a train called Red Arrow that really ditched a lot of passengers.

@NickyMitchell85 4 месяца назад

5:53. Was that a NUCLEAR ☢️ explosion 💥?

@LucidStew 4 месяца назад

One can consider it a very large conventional explosion if they feel more comfortable about it. :D

@smerfy01 7 месяцев назад

All I want for Christmas is a discord link🎉

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

forgot it. thanks for reminding!

@user-ej5ys1vf3e Месяц назад

So, the South Penn RR was right all along?

@andykillsu 7 месяцев назад

Personally I don't think this route is worth it for the money unless it is extended into the Midwest HSR corridor/Chicago. It just doesn't connect enough people at a high enough speed to make the cost worth it. And even then there are likely faster cheaper options to connect Chicago and New York.

@kwydir7362 7 месяцев назад

I agree and only to limit it to the strict ROW

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I'm thinking the same. It's like Louisville-Atlanta. Far more compelling with Chicago Hub and Southeast corridors built out.

@Ryknight2 7 месяцев назад

I definitely think a route like this should be done all at once, straight thru to Chicago. A ~6hr travel time Philly to Chicago is competitive, and connects all these intermediate cities

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

@@Ryknight2 I'm surprised at how strong the consensus is on this as a connector above all else, even though I agree.

@moishglukovsky 4 месяца назад

30th St Station in Philadelphia *is* in the city's core. It's silly to think otherwise.

@alexisdespland4939 7 месяцев назад

the sorterm goal for thge line should be 8 hour r tunarond times for all new york - pittsbugh train so the firts train of the day leaves either end at 6 am .and the return trip then leaves the opposite end at 2 pm so man tree trains a day can do return trips.

@gannon3816 7 месяцев назад

Local tip: Lancaster is pronounced as “LANK-ister”

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I'll chalk that up to accent. We have a Lancaster out here in California, too. :) I find these regional place name differences fascinating. I wonder if we can get someone British to weigh in.

@thomasgray4188 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew look up a video on the avro Lancaster bomber someone will say it correctly there.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

@@thomasgray4188 Lank-aster?

@ridesharegold6659 7 месяцев назад

Lancaster, PA is pronounced pretty similarly to the British way but this goes for most places in eastern PA and the Delaware Valley. Gloucester, NJ is pronounced GLOHS,,-ter. Cynwyd is something between KIN-wid and KIN-wood. But yeah, everytime I've been to Lanx people make it sound more like LANXter..

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

While I greatly appreciate the insight into the local pronunciation, I hope everyone appreciates that I do not live very far from Lancaster, CA and have been saying this word a certain way nearly my entire life. Pronouncing it in the Pennsylvania way without choking is probably not in the cards for me.

@J-Bahn 7 месяцев назад

If we were able to use dual mode tilting trains, how much time could you save between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh on the existing line?

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I'll be working on this now that I have the latest news video out. I'll update when I have the results.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I did the rough calculations and have that at about 3 hours versus roughly 5 1/2 hours currently.

@J-Bahn 7 месяцев назад

That honestly sounds good. I think it’s a shame that tilting trains haven’t been used more on more US medium-longer distance routes- that’s honestly where they could come into their own. Take for example the Queensland rail diesel tilt train.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

@@J-Bahn A big problem with that right of way though is a lot of the riverine parts simply don't have the room for double-tracked electric in addition to what is already there.(or even single-tracked for that matter) The area around Johnstown in particular would be extremely challenging to the point that you may as well bypass it.

@ema63613 Месяц назад

@ericrushine 7 месяцев назад

As a Pittsburgher and fan of rail, I disagree with the connection to wood street station on the light rail. The tunnel connecting steal plaza with the bus way or union station exists, while you would have to drill a new tunnel to get to wood street. Let's use what exist when possible.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I was not aware of that tunnel. It is difficult to find everything relevant during research. As they are about equidistant from Union Station, I had a coin flip between Wood St. and Steel Plaza here and apparently came up tails. I'm reading that the tunnel is single-tracked and not expandable, so that may not be suitable. Another option would be stopping at Union Station and reinstating the service between there and Steel Plaza that used to operate. However, if a line like this continued north or west to Cleveland or Columbus, it would likely have to run out of Union and under Liberty St. anyway for some distance.

@ericrushine 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew it absolutely would run that way to go anywhere in Ohio. It is just kinda a soar subject. I mean we have unused infrastructure and it could real help. I bet it is one of many such examples of un or under utilized infrastructure in the USA.

@thedapperdolphin1590 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStewThe area leading into the tunnel definitely has two tracks, but I’m not sure if that holds true for the whole tunnel. They’re not currently running anything through it, but have plans to connect to union station/east busway again.

@thedapperdolphin1590 7 месяцев назад

@@ericrushineThere are already tracks that run from union station along the northern part of the Ohio River. Are those already used by Amtrak? I imagine that’s the path it would take

@ericrushine 7 месяцев назад

@thedapperdolphin1590 it very well could take those tracks. Especially if it is going north to Cleveland. If it goes west to Columbus, it might be best to build new tracks past the airport.

@3506Dodge 7 месяцев назад

What does "sealed" mean?

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

It means the only place a person can reasonably enter the right of way is where they can board a train.

@H3lue 7 месяцев назад

Do you have a google map of this line?

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I do not. I usually dispose of the precise route once I have the video done. These are like soft proposals as a conversation piece, so exact positioning isn't all that important beyond the speed and cost estimates.

@carlfeola4574 7 месяцев назад

I enjoyed your video but as a Pittsburgher there are a few mistakes in your presentation. Between Monroeville to Downtown Pittsburgh along I376, there is no available right-away and it is completely built up. To add trackage, you would have to bulldozes hundred of structure. Since the "Parkway East" is the only access to the city from the eastern suburbs, any disruption to traffic on this highway would be devastating to the local commuters and politically unpopular and not supported by local politicians. Also, connecting Wood Street station to Pittsburgh Union station is unnecessary because there is already a light rail tunnel and trackage between the Steel Plaza station and Union Station. This tunnel was built to connect the light rail system to the East Busway for future expansion. To get the train into downtown from I76, there are several abandoned rail right-aways in that part of Allegheny county. These right-aways are not used for anything and are just over grown. Plus there is room along the East Buss Way to squeeze in more trackage without bulldozing too many structures.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

Thanks for the feedback. Being restricted to satellite views definitely lacks the perspective of living in the space. And I do value that because I feel like I truly understand my local situation in ways that are not reflected on Google maps. I do agree I-376 would require some demolition. I think its more on the scale of a few dozen structures rather than hundreds. Likely there would indeed be local opposition, but you'll probably get that anywhere to any major infrastructure project. I didn't see any fallow right of way even looking again, but if there is a way to avoid the long tunnel, that's great. Makes things cheaper and at that juncture speed is not a concern. I was not aware of that Steel-Union tunnel when I made the video, but was alerted to it in another comment. My understanding is that tunnel is single-tracked and can't be expanded since it runs directly under the foundations of a major skyscraper. In terms of benefit to the Wood St. idea, it facilitates continuation to Cleveland or Columbus much better. In my view, the busway option is more structures than I-376(again, I lack a local perspective, I grant that). Also, that NS route is a real dog from about Trafford on.

@thedapperdolphin1590 7 месяцев назад

They’re actually planning to extend the East Busway out to East Pittsburgh and then eventually to McKeesport, with a branch to Monroeville.

@MrHorse-by3mp 7 месяцев назад

Could be interesting. Not that anyone is ever going to take a ride across Pennsylvania and think they're in Switzerland. The place has some world-class eyesores. I would take Siberia over the Mon Valley.

@onetwothreeabc 7 месяцев назад

How much $benefit are there for each minute saved in trip time in your opinion?

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

I don't think its that simple. 7h29m over 7h30m is meaningless. 3h47m over 7h30m is a roundtrip in the time of one-way.

@onetwothreeabc 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew How about we assume $1 per minute saved per passenger? So if a corridor have 1 million passenger per year, we say the benefit is $1 million per year? So if there is 1 million passenger per year for this corridor, saving 3h43min (223min) is $223 million per year. Considering that we need a 4% return for any capital investment, $163 million per year justifies about $5.6 bn of 1-time spending.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

@@onetwothreeabc why are we assuming $1 per minute?

@onetwothreeabc 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew $1/minute is $60/hr of earning potential or $120,000 annual income. Do you think it's too low or too high?

@onetwothreeabc 7 месяцев назад

@@LucidStew Another way of calculating the benefit is to survey how much passengers would be willing to pay. Currently a coach seat of the Pennsylvanian from Philadelphia to Pittsburg costs $55 and takes 7h23min. If a train takes 4h instead (saves 3h23min, or 203 minutes), would you be willing to pay $203 more ($258 total)?

@john-ic9vj 7 месяцев назад

As a pittsburgh native, I'd love to have a better rail connection to philly (or even better DC). The drive to either can be stressful. But I know with the current political climate, it will never happen

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

Do you mean locally or nationally? Certainly nationally we're currently having a problem functioning at all.

@jamesgardner6499 7 месяцев назад

This project would help rejuvenate Pittsburgh even more. It would also bring many jobs to the central PA area. I don’t think the western side will happen though. It’s a very anti train area.

@H3lue 7 месяцев назад

What makes you say the western side is anti-train?

@deanonesense 7 месяцев назад

I don't think there is a single country with high speed train networks that didn't first have slower trains with much higher stop density. Nobody likes a train that goes through their backyard and doesn't stop anywhere near them.

@carlsmith5545 7 месяцев назад

You can tunnel through the mountains! They did it many decades ago when building the Pennsylvania Turnpike and long before technology. With all the technology of today, yes you can do it. If you cant do it right then don't do it at all....

@spathens8225 7 месяцев назад

Lancaster is prounounced Lanc-aster, not Lan-caster, just a tip

@spathens8225 7 месяцев назад

Also elizabethtown is pronounced pretty quickly here

@shawnsoviak4573 7 месяцев назад

Uhm, it's pronounced "LANK-uh-stir" 0:30 😅

@MrHorse-by3mp 7 месяцев назад

Probably for the best that you don't know how we pronounce Charleroi and Versailles 😂 Or see those places for that matter. They look like prime shooting locations for "The Walking Dead."

@wastucar8127 6 месяцев назад

Cascadia corridor 😢

@Southpaw1312 7 месяцев назад

Great video but that pronunciation of Lancaster is criminal

@Southpaw1312 7 месяцев назад

@@davidjackson7281 They're pronouncing it objectively wrong Also I despise cali weather, I need to moisturize

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

@@davidjackson7281 No need to get personal about it. The Lancaster hazing is mostly in fun.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

@@Southpaw1312 Just so I'm clear, the Pennsylvania accent is objectively correct?

@3506Dodge 7 месяцев назад

All of these things could be "fixed." Americans don't want to fix them.

@realswampwitch2336 5 месяцев назад

Nope. Passenger and freight on the same track. Individual cars. Bus stops everywhere

@ram-ck7ti 7 месяцев назад

Why?? People around Philly have little to no interest in going to Pittsburgh and vice versa. Provide regional air service from Philly International to Harrisburg and Pittsburgh using the some of the billions needed to build the high speed rail .. Improve the Interstate and PA turnpike to allow safer faster travel by vehicle, not rail and still have plenty of money left over. As it now stands, this is not Europe, Most people are just not into trains for long distance travel. Sorry to pop your bubble but this is the reality. High Speed rail is wishful thinking and a problem, not needing a solution. IMHO

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

A good question and I think you make some good points. I'm not from Pennsylvania, as the numerous comments correcting my pronunciation of Lancaster make clear, so I can not give a locally informed answer. In general, the point would be to provide an option. The general purpose of these videos is to go beyond the "build HSR" mantra and look at what that would more realistically entail and cost as a source of discussion. My personal view is that we should build HSR where HSR makes sense. I think there are some places it does and lots of places it doesn't. So far audience consensus on this one seems to be that this idea makes a lot more sense if it's connecting the NEC to a hypothetical HSR line between Chicago and Cleveland or Columbus, which I agree with.

@johnweber6612 7 месяцев назад

Propaganda, will never happen.

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

It's not propaganda because I'm not advocating for it. It's a conversation piece. Of course it will never happen. These things are built of the backs of multi-hundred million dollar, multi-faceted surveys, not something a dude on RU-vid put together in 2 weeks. The purpose of these videos is to go beyond HSR propaganda and take a look at what building these things in various areas would actually mean in terms of route and cost.

@null7879 7 месяцев назад

If this got approved today it would be completed in 2095 at a cost of 125 billion 😂

@LucidStew 7 месяцев назад

It is admittedly a 20-30 year process to build one of these things and my estimate is in 2028 dollars, so you'd have plenty of inflation as well. Probably not 10X worth, tho. :)