I'm 79+ years old. I remember Penn Station. I watched this video. To this day, I still can't fathom the demolition of Penn Station. That Grand Central was saved from demolition was a miracle.
And many of you should remember or learn it was Donald Trump who was pushing for the Demolition of that beautiful Grand Central Station..what a low life.
@@merseybeat1963 That's false. Grand Central station has been landmarked since 1967, when Trump was 23. They were thinking of knocking it down before then, when Trump was in high school. It was saved by a group of concerned citizens led by Jackie Onassis. Trump had nothing to do with either the proposed destruction or its preservation. Trump refurbed a dilapidated old hotel in the area called the Commodore and it reopened as the Grand Hyatt. I don't think he still owns it.
@@d.e.murray5105 No..Not false..I worked 6 nights a week at my dads Deli 12 blocks from there and it was in the papers in and out for years that this ahole wanted to get his hands on it. It was after he built that horrendous building next to it. Landmark Status.. !! That didn't stop those Pimps of Architecture totally molest Steinway Hall..all it is now is a shell. Maybe he wouldn't do such a thing today..people change..but what I say is true.
Indeed, History Channel is seldom about History any more. However, I know where to buy useless crap now being hawked on these channels. History is forgotten, alas.
@@The_DuMont_Network Many channels today only have their pet projects and so called reality TV. The reason for this is because they are cheap to make. All they need are half a dozen people or so. To make a good documentary takes dozens, sometimes a hundred or more, to produce. With so much competition, they go whatever the cheapest to produce is most of the time, and some channels, all of the time they show whatever is cheapest. Some channels are showing 20 and 30 year old productions in with their reality TV junk..
I have visited New York City twice. I remember passing through Grand Central Station in awe of it. I am sorry that I was robbed of the chance to feel the glory of passing through Penn Station.
It’s an absolute travesty that it was torn down. Even nearly 60 years later. Thank you Jackie O’Nassis for saving Grand Central from demolition. You did NYC and the world a huge favor.
the silver lining that came out of the disaster of the demolition of penn station is that it created a new national urgency for historic preservation that went from coast to coast. now in many areas, the local historic commisions now have to sign off on any redevelopment plans.
And even with that there are plenty of communities that don't get it. New Castle NY, has *such* an obsession for Horace Greeley, yet a building (on the property of a school named after HG) owned by PT Barnum gets demolished. After all' it's not from their great-and-holy Greeley (and he didn't even build his house or farm, he bought it from *our* family). And one of the last original stations from the Putnam Division of the NYC? Was intact up to a few years ago, WELL after people would have been aware of historical preservation, and they tore it down and did NOTHING with the property.
@Bobby Brady South America,the middle east, Africa, Asia-the former Soviet Union , Europe, etc; other than this list, i would agree with you concerning America's meddling.
I'm not a new Yorker, not even American and I can appreciate what a tremendous loss this was to Manhattan. Sadly had to happen to bring about the awareness of destroying classic buildings like it. Can't imagine what else developers would tear down without historical protection.
It's like saying that San Francisco should be prohibited from tearing down Candlestick Park for it's historic significance. What a tremendous loss for the city.
They have to tear old buildings down to bring in new money. There is very few times you can save the old and still make money on the project. The kids are about recycling and being green but they want it new. too.
There was nothing architecturally significant about Candlestick. It could be brutally windy, foggy, and cold. In the early 80's if you sat through an entire night game they actually handed out medals.
I live on Long Island which is a 45 minute train ride from NYC. I go through Penn Station a lot and even though they are doing a massive renovation right now they still should’ve never ever EVER demolished the original Penn Station. I just got a job with the Metro North Railroad and I’m definitely a train lover.
I was in HS when the Old Penn station was torn down. My Father worked at Penn station from age 17 until he retired, except for the 3 yrs of WWII. He worked for the Penn. RR. So sad we didn’t appreciate what we had.
I'm inclined to agree, but I can hardly imagine what such a thing would cost to rebuild today, using the same materials and craftsmansip. Could America do that today? Build beautiful grand public structures?
@@MarinCipollina All the evidence presented by modern public structures suggests that we no longer understand "beautiful" or "grand". We only understand "concrete".
@@c182SkylaneRG "WE" don't have any say in anything: we elect politicians who purport to represent our interest but who only act to serve the interests of the "Happy Few".
@@MarinCipollina NYC has enough money to continue to build skyscrapers, it shouldn't be hard to rebuild a train station. i feel like it deserves to be rebuilt in the same spot. it was a big disrespect to put msg on the spot when they had other places..
And now Moynihan Train Hall at the Farley Building finally came true. A slight consolation for the greatest crime against architecture in American history.
@@SuspenseESCAPEremastered The Farley Moyahan Train Hall (New Penn Station) was championed by President Donald John Trump and his Transportation Head Elaine Chao. Making America Great Again 2020!!!
When I'm watching these old videos I also like to see the other factories and business that show up. Then I like to look them up and see if I can find any information on them. For instance at 10:36 the huge factory "B.T Babbitt." Babbitt was a producer of Baking powder, soap, and several varsities of soap products. In 1851 He was the first to manufacture individual soap bars. Babbitt invented most of the machinery he used in his plant and owned over 100 different patents. The first plant was in NJ and in 1907 it was relocated to the 22,000 sq. foot facility (Shown in the video 10:36) to West Street in Lower Manhattan making it the largest soap manufacturing plants in the world.
Worse decision, was forbidding trains south of 42nd St. Feds should have mandated a connection between Grand Central and Penn Station, for military reasons.
@@bigjake2295 I disagree. Manhattan's avenues are wide so they did not block out the sun and their stations were quite ornate. In addition, despite what many may believe, they were beloved in the neighbourhoods in which they served and were relied upon by locals. Their loss was the demise of those neighbourhoods as their demolition caused real-estate prices to go up, thus pushing out the working-class residents of the neighbourhood. If they were still standing, not only would there be more transit options for New Yorkers but there would still be working-class neighbourhoods in Manhattan. Many of the high-rises that were built along those avenues wouldn't be standing had it not been for the demolition of the els and Manhattan wouldn't be as much of a playground for the elite. The demolition of the els was planned by people like Robert Moses who foresaw a city that would cater to the rich and isolate the poor. The city strategically demolished the Second Ave El' before the Third Ave El' so that the less important line would be left. They then neglected to maintain the Third ave El' so that they could warrant its demolition in 1955. Personally, I don't understand why so many people are against a transportation system that was both unique and charming and that provided a more pleasurable view of the city than the depths of the subway. I live in Woodside where the el, being far less ornate than the Manhattan els, actually does block out the sun due to the narrowness of Roosevelt Avenue and I still have a great appreciation for it. That's just my two cents though.
Scully actually wrote, "Once, we entered the city like gods. Now we scurry in like rats, which is probably what we deserve." You can find his 1996 Raoul Wallenberg Lecture at the University of Michigan with the statement online as a pdf (taubmancollege.umich.edu/pdfs/publications/map/wallenberg1996-scully.pdf).
A big part of the reason why so few people appreciated the significance of the McKim building of Penn Station is that most railroad passengers who used the station never saw the building. Most passengers to and from Penn Station were from the Long Island RR. They entered the station at the basement level, transferred to other trains or the subway in the basement and never went upstairs.
Your reasoning holds little water. Penn Station was the nation's largest rail station. It stood on its site for half a century, in an area which attracted not only commuters, but office workers and shoppers on their way to Macy's, Gimbles, and Herald Square, which a was bustling middle class shopping district, and not the derelict, third world, blighted area it is today. To say that Penn Station was unnoticed by the riders of LIRR or other commuters is absurd. Penn Station suffered the same fate which affected other prominent, historic monumental buildings. A combination of greed, apathy, and plain ignorance. The refrain from the song; Big Yellow Taxi, still holds true. "Don't it always seems to go, that you don't know what you've got till its gone."
@@luissantiago8446 Millions of people entered Penn Station by rail and stayed only long enough to go from one train to another and neve ever left the basement. They never saw enough of the building to appreciate it.
This video describes the modern Penn Station as "a glorified subway station," but I don't think that's fair. It's more like a crapified bus station, with an extra pile of crap on top in the form of MSG. Also, James Farley PO turned shopping mall is a pretty lame consolation prize.
4:15 "Most people who come to make phone calls are standing on history." Of course, nobody makes phone calls in a train station any more, so that clip is also historic.
If you want to see what magnificent train stations were like visit Philadelphia and come up from the tracks into their renovated 30th Street Station. Magnificent!
At the very least, we got the Moynihan Train Hall now, and an upcoming renovation to the Madison Square Garden part of the station down the line. The old one should have never disappeared, especially the way it did, but it's nice to see that the old Penn Station's legacy has not died, and that people of our time have acknowledged it's greatness and want to see it restored, at least to as much of a degree as they can.
Should have built 2 more tunnels from Jersey to New York but then again nobody considered an increase in rail traffic and train speeds at that time. Two more tunnels are in progress now. Fortunately, there are 4 tunnels from Penn Station to Queens. The biggest mistake ever made was to tear the station down. Fortunately, Grand Central was saved.
RIP William D Middleton. Your amazing knowledge in railroad history will always be remembered. 11 years since you left us grand memories of inspiration and nostalgia for all railfans.
After being gutted by vandals for 30 years, Ford Motor Co. purchased the Michigan Central station in Detroit and will bring back it's beauty. If you've never seen, it's worth it. Not as big as Penn station, it was the tallest train station in the USA. I was fortunate my dad took me thru there when I was a kid. It was astonishingly beautiful. It seemed like the men's room was the size of a football field, with literally hundreds of toilets in a row!
I'm watching this documentary and I am thinking about my late grandparents who were black migrants from the south and came to New York as part of The Great Migration in the early 1940s. I was never able to see the history behind this important milestone in their lives. Thankfully , we have laws in place today to protect against travesties such as this.
These old newsclips are amazing to watch. So much I see that we have lost. Breaks my heart to see the beautiful old GG! locomotives pulling passenger cars.
As I kid I remember this bigger than life station where I took the Pennsylvania RR to Johnstown PA for my summer vacation in the 50's. It was one of New York's greatest landmarks. SAD SAD. BLAME THE CITY FOR THIS.
It's a shame the Penn Station was torn down. U.S. Citizens don't have an appreciation for old marvelously designed architecture. I lived in Europe for a number of years and train travel there is still up and running. I wish train travel would make a come back in this country along with light rail in all cities.
Actually, it was in part because Penn Station was demolished, and Grand Central Terminal was at risk of being demolished too, that landmark preservation really got started in NYC.
Yes - light rail makes it MUCH easier for the thugs to mug, attack, rape and kill working people. Public transportation is good, old fashioned Communism.
>public transportation is good old fashioned communism Rapid transit, a system first developed in the United Kingdom, is communist? I hope you were only joking with that retarded statement....
Madison square garden is the reason the original pen station was torn down . This was a time new and modern was the only way , then the people woke up to what they were losing .
From what I heard from my father back then and read since the former Madison Square Garden was a better sports venue than the one that stands there now, plus the seating capacities aren't that much different. It was a lose lose result for everybody.
Penn RR had let it fall into disrepair as the railroad founder until it was so decrepit, it was probably beyond repair. Of course, few then had the same consciousness of the importance of preservation, alas.
@@mdteletom1288 Not if you're a hockey fan. The previous Garden was built primarily for boxing, and while seats were closer to the action, many had obstructed sightlines for hockey. And the current Garden's capacity is larger than its predecessor. Not that I'm defending the destruction of Penn Station -- a great tragedy.
the only way you could experience the majesty of that architecture and the genius that conceived it was to walk through it. It was a powerful and at the same time magical experience. An unfortunate loss to history.
I used to visit NYC via the Hartford, New Haven arriving at Grand Central; I don't recall visiting Penn Station. Because of its demolition, and thanks to Jackie Kennedy, we have the National Landmarks which saved Grand Central from a similar fate.
New Haven trains came into Grand Central except those continuing to Washington. The circuitous route through Queens added a lot of time compared with the more direct route down Park Avenue into GCT, which is still traveled by Metro-North trains on the New Haven line.
From Connecticut to arrive at Pennsylvania Station you have to use Amtrak rather than Metro North. First Amtrak stopped at less stops and the ticket was twice the price and had less trains scheduled.
When I was growing up in NJ, early 60's, I'd go into NYC with my Dad and while we drove in, there was a time or two I can recall when relatives came into town on the train and we'd pick them up. As a kid of 8-10 y/o I didn't really grasp the history of the place and I do not think I ever went into the glorious upstairs area at all. Hence my experience of Penn Sta was more or less similar to the NY subway, which is not especially dramatic in any way. I can tell you, that during the late 60's and into the 70's, NYC was a complete and total wreck.
They never would have demolished a building like that in England. We love old buildings and respect the art that goes into them and don't forget hard work. That's why our buildings over in England are over a thousand years old. And some even older. Because we love our history big shame new York.
The thing is, we're always seeing pictures of the station in it's heyday. Dad said it had gotten disheveled and dirty towards the end (they briefly mentioned it and had one view of the exterior), but I've been curious just how far they let it get run down before destroying it. I remember what GCT used to look like before they refurbished it.
That's typical of NYC now the subways are a disaster mainly due to Democrat run administrations, the governor is in charge of the subways and hires incompetent people to run it, it's all about political favors pay to play and especially unions, look at how DeBlasio has let the homeless population get out of control I was there last Christmas and they're sleeping all over the streets.
@@Peter-pv8xx Yeah, damn those Democrats! We need two-fisted, tough-guy Republicans to show these pansy Dems what real men are like! They'll get the homeless population under control by putting them into work camps and make productive citizens out of them, because "work will make them free!"
Looking at the photos it's amazing how intricate and detailed the building was. Now I know why people have been regretting the demolition of Penn Station.
*Born on 1957 raised in Da Bronx I've made my trek through the NY Penn many times, great job great history of my city but their was much more to accomplish!* *Please my dads old GPO job, make it work!*
Recently they renamed Lake Station, which is named after actress and former talk show host Ricki Lake, which airs on WPIX-PIX11, which is Disney independent station's parent company, from September 1993 to September 2004 by airing every day at 5pm including Saturday and Sunday, which is two of the workweek days
Penn Station's beauty is its location and multiple utility: food, MSG, arcades, trains to all points out of the city (NJ, LI, Queens/Brooklyn), quick cabride from anywhere. Even now the building has a lot to offer.
When I was about ten years old my family took the train from Penn Station to Miami. The train was the East Coast Champion, the engine now sits in the railroad museum in Salisbury NC. I remember the glass floor and the soaring ceilings. Years later I commuted on the LIRR through Penn Station. It was a total s-hole, still is.
By the time the decision was made to take the station down the company couldn't afford the upkeep. Grand Central was in bad shape by the 1970's, tearing down the old freight building and building the Pan Am building helped but was only a band aid.
I hope so. In addition, somebody needs to rescue The Hotel Pennsylvania, which was part of the original complex. I stayed there, late last year ('waited 45 years for a legitimate excuse to dial that number!) and its' current condition is absolutely poignant. It is, I've been told, still the worlds most popular hotel, and it's down to a two star rating.
I would love to see the Original Penn station in HO scale as part of a layout part of The history of what it took to get into the island of Manhattan, & make it GRAND!!!!!!!!
What I'd like to see is a VIRTUAL REALITY reconstruction of Penn Station where you can put on one of those headsets and maneuver around the Station as if it still existed. The VR technology is all there & the station's architectural plans are undoubtedly still in existence - anybody got a spare million or two to get this project going?
There are few remnants of the original station that exist. All the staircases with BRASS railings are from the 1910 structure. Probably cost about the equivalent of $30 Million in todays money to build it.
@@arielfilmsinc1926There are FOUR original Penn Station Eagles on the Market Street Bridge directly in front of Philadelphia 30th Street Station. c8.alamy.com/comp/J8WRT2/eagle-statue-on-market-street-bridge-near-30th-street-station-philadelphia-J8WRT2.jpg
Entering the subway downstairs you can see an unloved ,dented, lone brass stair railing . Seen it for 30 years . Always thought they should have restored it and put a historical marker .
@@StevenTorrey He might only be focusing on the construction of the station structure, which sounds like it took approximately two years. It was preceded by five years of foundation excavation, which was probably preceded by another couple years of demolition of all the other structures on the site. So five years of excavation, and seven total years, leaves two years to put up the building, itself.
Peices of the marble brick & ornimentation salvaged from the demolition have been available for sale for over 50 years. There is still piles of it available for sale .
I never got to see Penn Station but in 1968 I visited Madison Square Garden that was under construction by Turner Construction. I remembered the answer to a question from our group of Lehigh University Civil Engineering students concerning working for the US government: We don't do such work. We don't participate in "low bidder" projects. We pride ourselves in quality work and our reputation.
Finally I understood why they called the ugly Penn Station. However I heard it at one time there was a beautiful building called “Penn Station” now it all makes sense. I am not from NYC but I felt in love with the city when I went to visit for the first time in 2007. The building itself was beautiful, sadly is gone. However if I am not mistaken after its demise it opened the eyes of New Yorkers and thanks to the patronage of the First Lady Jackie Kennedy, New York City was able to saved Grand Central Station from the wrecker and also set the beginning of conservation of older buildings which ins the early 50 and 60’s began to be destroyed. I don’t think New York wouldn’t be so like a tourism attraction if Carnegie was demolished or even the Plaza Hotel. Glad the city keep their history as much as they could. The Old Penn Station had to be sacrificed in order to open people eyes to conservation of the city history.
If I went into Mr. Peabody's Wayback machine I'd visit Pennsylvania Station, The origional Yankee Stadium,The Polo Grounds, Ebbets Field, The old Garden and have a drink at Toots Shore's.
The main waiting room ceiling of Penn Station always looked shoddy to me; a poor expression of coffering in any day. Union Station DC used coffering far more successfully. Thank you Daniel Burnham.
Can someone tell me if they moved the New Pen Station to the building they were talking about towards the end? I'm in Australia but have a love for railroads, especially the historic side. Thanks
You leave the Pennsylvania Station at a quarter of four, read a magazine and then you're in Baltimore. Dinner in the diner, nothing could be finer, Than to have your ham and eggs in Carolina. When you hear the whistle blowing, Eight to the bar; Then you know that Tennessee is not very far. Shovel all the coal in, Gotta keep it rollin' Whoo-Whoooo, Chatanoogo there you are!!!
What an abject travesty that such an amazing place was destroyed... I mean the Garden is cool - but damn. The awareness of loosing such historic architectural pieces of our history in the U.S. cannot be understated. I can only hope the new Penn station (its being worked on now) will see some of this old structure's sense of efficiency and grandeur.
@classiccarz "Too busy giving away money for welfare " Yeah, because they care more about saving people's LIVES by providing food and shelter, terrible thing!!
Bobby Brady please. That’s a republican Rhis rich country should be taking care of it’s citizens Social Security and Medicare is next on the chopping block so says tRump They gotta pay down those massive tax cuts given to the rich. What better way they cut off the knees of the poorest Americans as the middle class slowly slips further off the charts into poverty
Because the idiots didn’t clean up the place and many people then wanted a cleaner station. So they built a smaller and much more cramped version instead (which was a mistake in hindsight).
If you look on google street view at 56 Tinton ave. In Eatontown, nj you will see 4 of the original street lamps and 2 balustrades from penn station in front of the house.
I haven't been able to finish the video, but can someone tell me, the Penn Station she's talking about and showing at 3:35 is the site across the street from the current Penn Station?
You’re thinking of the post office building situated on the west side of 8th Ave. The “current Penn Station” sits under MSG between 7th Ave and 8th Ave.
@Giovanni Pincoletti You are free to leave anytime you want, I suggest Venezuela maybe or north Korea, America was great until the communist liberal scum started taking over and did there best to destroy it from within, at least Trump is trying to yes make America great again as she once was, Obama did the bulk of the damage with his hate America and apology tour, people like you make me sick!
Peter , if it would make him a single dollar Trump would have destroyed Penn Station. How do I know? Because he intentionally destroyed other historical sites, often doing it secretly at night.
European visitors have been aghast for years upon noticing that in America, old run down classical buildings blindly get mowed down without a second thought to make way for soulless glass boxes (or even worse “put up a parking lot”), saying, (words to the effect of) “If Penn Station had been built in Europe, it would have been preserved forever! Only the most extreme wartime bomb damage would have warranted the wrecking ball.“ But now, thanks to the tragic loss of the original Penn Station, though America may still be myopic concerning preserving ancient architecture, at least we’re no longer totally blind. And now we at least think twice before siccing the wrecking ball on our public palaces. Hence, Grand Central Station, built in 1913, was saved and renovated during the 1990s. But could we do better still?
We also lost Broad Street Station (a magnificent PRR edifice designed partially by Frank Furness) in Philadelphia in 1953 to a sterile row of office buildings. Instead of building Suburban Station, the PRR should have made Broad its suburban terminal with underground rails.
They should demolish that stupid Madison Square Garden and that god-awful office building. Office buildings and stadiums are a dime a dozen. Just rebuild the whole station from scratch!
The clearance of buildings, particularly slums, to allow this station and tracks to be built, has a precursor. Both Kings Cross & St Pancras in England were built after slums and other residential areas were levelled
I hate to put a good light on this but this massive loss and the ensuing shock and outrage from it started an architectural preservation movement which saved many more buildings
This is heartbreaking. How was it allowed to be destroyed. Re build it. I believe it almost happened to Grand Central. Thankfully we still have magnificent stations in the UK not on the same scale but at least they are preserved and cherished.
I was 2-3 years old when she was demolished. All I know of Penn Station today...it's hell. I hate going there, for any reason. I could get lost in Grand Central, and I bet if the original Penn Station was here, I'd say the same.
