Penultimate+2 2024 Refresh: More Games, Prog. Aid, wAx, Waterloo BASIC for VIC-20

Подписаться 56 тыс.

Просмотров 10 тыс.

50% 1

The Penultimate+2 cartridge for the Commodore VIC-20 has been refreshed for 2024. It's got even more games and programming tools packed in, so let's take another look. Highlights include the Programmer's Aid utility, the wAx2 assembler, and Waterloo Structured BASIC.
Official Penultimate+2 Page: www.tfw8b.com/product/vic20-p...
My previous PU+2 videos:
Mostly about the games: • Best Ever VIC-20 Cart?...
Mostly utilities and dev tools: • VIC-20 Penultimate+2: ...
To support 8-Bit Show And Tell:
Become a patron: / 8bitshowandtell
One-time donation: paypal.me/8BitShowAndTell
2nd channel: / @8-bitshowandtell247
Note: programs containing the extra commands of Waterloo BASIC, Super Expander, or Programmer's Aid require the cartridge (original, PU+2, or other re-creation) to function, so be aware when sharing your creations with friends!
Programmer's Aid manual: archive.org/details/VIC-1212_...
wAx2 Assembler: github.com/chysn/VIC20-wax2/wiki
Waterloo BASIC Manual: commodore.software/downloads/...
Denial page about the VIC-1001 cartridge: sleepingelephant.com/denial/w...
Index:
0:00 Last time...
1:25 Blue LED: Random Game
4:08 Games: Alien Invasion/Invaders, Atlantis
9:16 Games: Fall, Operation Ganymed
13:32 Games: Moon Patrol, Scrolling Through
17:25 Programmer's Aid
31:37 wAx V2.1 Assembler
45:05 Waterloo Structured BASIC
57:22 Boot Settings, and thanks!

Наука

Опубликовано:

28 июл 2024

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист

Посмотреть позже

Комментарии : 109

@porl42 3 месяца назад

- "Hi, it's Robin..." - *Presses Like*

@jandjrandr 3 месяца назад

These old computers are so neat with all the advanced features that these cartridges offer. It's like a whole new system.

@Starchface 3 месяца назад

What a fabulous product to overcome many VC-20 limitations! One of these is surely on the radar for all serious owners. I would probably have it permanently plugged in. Good times.

@bradnelson3595 3 месяца назад

It's amazing the life they are pumping into these old machines.

@GoatTheGoat 3 месяца назад

Robin's exasperated gasp when his character dies in a game is so genuine.

@AndyG-_- 3 месяца назад

50:03 ... LOL ... I see what you did there! 😆

@ncurtis1970 3 месяца назад

these go to 11

@davidebucci8171 3 месяца назад

Hi Robin, nice to see you playing again the Space Invaders clone I wrote back in 2018. I wanted to obtain something that was inspired by Space Invaders, but with a frantic pace like Arcadia. If I recall correctly, I sent a cassette to the first three people who got more than a certain score 🙂 You playtested the game and gave useful hints. The whole game started with a test for the smooth scrolling of the aliens, it was quite tricky, also because it was my first real project in the 6502 assembler in a while. It was fun to target the unexpanded machine, with only 3.5 KB of free RAM.

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

Aha, high score challenge! Thank you again for sending that tape, it was exciting to see your game on the cartridge and remember I had that very rare artifact! And I enjoyed playing it again. Very good work on making it, congratulations.

@AnnatarTheMaia Месяц назад

It was so nice of you to put the indexes in. Thank you kindly.

@mikegarland4500 3 месяца назад

Wow, imagine having this back in the 80's. Of course I'll watch more, if you're willing to take the time to record it.

@lee-enfield0247 3 месяца назад

The warranty for these machines was only 1 year....and after 40 years they are still working! 😁

@Okurka. 3 месяца назад

Lots of Commodore's computers stopped working within 6 weeks.

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

Typically the early runs of Commodore machines had poor reliability, but as they "cost reduced" later revisions, they also improved reliability a lot. I keep using the same 64C, breadbin 64, and VIC-20 in all my videos year after year with no repairs. Once you get a good one, it lasts.

@lee-enfield0247 3 месяца назад

@@Okurka. My C64, A500 and A1200 still works

@Okurka. 3 месяца назад

@@lee-enfield0247 I didn't say all.

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

I now recall that a lot of Commodore machines only had a 90 day warranty! That's probably all that was required by law at that time? So in that sense it was good if they failed within 6 weeks :) Much better than after 91 days, anyway.

@MichaelDoornbos 3 месяца назад

Wax assembler has been a favorite for some time. I have a cart from him that's a couple versions old. Great project.

@LeftoverBeefcake 3 месяца назад

I'm checking it out right now, and it looks fantastic! Time to do more assembly programming on the VIC. :)

@markjreed 3 месяца назад

At first I misheared "Wax assembler" as "VAX assembler", and thought that was a very strange thing to provide on a VIC-20. Cross-developing for a mainframe using the VIC's BASIC editor . . .

@giuseppe74921 3 месяца назад

Great quality video as usual

@markjreed 3 месяца назад

Those editing extensions are cool; the C128 had similar functionality built-in, but it was all sequences that started with ESC instead of control-something. like ESC+@ cleared to the end of the screen. There was also ESC+A to turn on auto-insert mode, which is basically the way entering text works everywhere now: typing pushed existing text to the right instead of overwriting it.

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

Yes, those C128 escape codes are really neat. I made a video about them years ago called "Join the Commodore 128 Escape Club". I made a .pdf summarizing them all that's linked in that video description.

@ahmad-murery 3 месяца назад

I like the Waterloo basic, the LOOP/WHILE block looks more like new programming languages. I also like the WAS assembler. anyway, I found that a lot of the programming aid tools are available on MSX1 by default such as (trace, merge, key, preserving indentation) and some of the control code too, but scrolling the program list up and down is a thing I always dreamed of. I wish you can make more BASIC programming videos Thanks Robin!

@adamt3912 3 месяца назад

Great video, thanks.Really love the programming/editor examples. Nothing like someone else going through the features.Oh and BTW, amazing cartridge.👍

@WhoLover 3 месяца назад

100% watching this later. I own one of these already and cannot wait to see what I can do with it. I'd love to see more!

@thenoblerot 3 месяца назад

The Waterloo languages on the SuperPET are *awesome!* pretty speedy on the 6809 cpu, and supports passing parameters in call proc and def function, iirc, among many other "wish I had that in microsoft basic" commands

@ncurtis1970 3 месяца назад

Why cant I like this three times, once for Robin being such a cool dude, once for WAX(Chsyn) and once for the Penultimate(Rod) I have a WAX 1 cartridge and the Penultimate+ so this means ill have to get this new one.

@tedthrasher9433 3 месяца назад

9:30 Fall seems like it would make a good co-op game!

@DaveCurran 3 месяца назад

Great video, thank you.

@jeffreyphipps1507 3 месяца назад

ELSEIF has to be one word because the interpreter has to differentiate it from if and else when parsing. Waterloo did an excellent job providing Structured Programming elements on that old cart. I'm glad it has been resurrected.

@user-ff6pq1eg8x 3 месяца назад

With carts for the VIC-20 and C64 now ranging up into hundreds of kilobytes or in some cases megabytes it will be interesting to see what games could be coming out like platform adventure games maybe one day we'll see games like Woder Boy or Rainbow Island on the VIC-20

@user-ff6pq1eg8x 3 месяца назад

The higher cartridges go means the more they can do all the work.

@GadgetUK164 3 месяца назад

Very cool! Will get one of these over next month or two!

@JustWasted3HoursHere 3 месяца назад

That Waterloo BASIC is so close to being able to get rid of line numbers altogether.

@jinchoung 3 месяца назад

man, i'd kill for a bmc64 rom that i can buy. that cartridge just makes working with the vic-20 just so much more convenient.

@dawnmitchell8213 3 месяца назад

I bought the original Pentultimate cartridge and still haven’t gotten around to trying it out yet. I’m definitely getting this one and maybe I’ll get around to trying it out some day.

@robertsissco2439 3 месяца назад

Damnit Robin, I just bought a house, now I need to update my PU+2 cart by buying this. (Seriously though, love your work, you are great and informative)

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

Congrats on the new house!

@greatquux 3 месяца назад

If you ever get your hands on a Japanese VIC-1001, we shall all require a video post-haste!

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

I would love that! And I would also love to get the official Japanese Galaxian VIC-20 / VIC-1001 cartridge.

@granitepenguin 3 месяца назад

Fall is amazingly brutal. Maybe it's easier if you cross your eyes.

@LearnAgon 3 месяца назад

Very very nice 🎉

@DerykRobosson 3 месяца назад

50:03 Autograph - Turn up the Radio

@terryraymond7984 3 месяца назад

Cannonball Blitz (like Donkey Kong) was that NTSC

@rager1969 3 месяца назад

Fall looks brutal. I think it might be a two player game, or at least that's how I would've played it (if I had it and a friend was over).

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

It would definitely be easier with a 2nd person!

@VIC-20 3 месяца назад

Fall is awesome!

@ChopsticksDIYGarden 24 дня назад

We're so spoiled with 32" 4K monitors these days.

@AureliusR 3 месяца назад

This cart is awesome, and I really want one for my VIC, but I just can't justify well over $100CAD for it...

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

I get it, but nowadays it's just the same as a tank of gas or half a week's groceries for my household :( Those are gone the next week, but a retro purchase (whatever it is) continues to be fun and holds most of its value if you have to sell it later.

@AureliusR 3 месяца назад

@@8_Bit That's true. Eventually I will cave and buy one.

@coryengel 3 месяца назад

I’m pretty sure they started selling this version in late 2023. I got one for Christmas.

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

Yours has Waterloo BASIC, wAx Assembler? Cool, I didn't realize it went back to 2023.

@DIYTAO 3 месяца назад

I never knew Imagic ported their Atlantis game to VIC-20, I remember it been available for Atari and Mattel Intellivision systems.

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

Yeah, the VIC-20 got some interesting ports from Imagic and other companies that I think of as video game console-focused.

@terryraymond7984 3 месяца назад

the indenting makes it more readable

@Lion_McLionhead 3 месяца назад

We need a starship variant of Jupiter lander.

@Oldiesyoungies 3 месяца назад

cool

@johnsmith1953x 3 месяца назад

*It still doesn't have any demos like "Robotic Liberation" on it?!?*

@pikadroo 3 месяца назад

Buttons, still being amazing I see. 😊

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

I am very easily amused.

@pikadroo 3 месяца назад

@@8_Bitif those buttons existed back in the 80’s it would have been seen as witchcraft. I mean, still seems like it day… ya know the whole ‘indistinguishable from magic’ thing going on for it. Umm so good.😊

@terryraymond7984 3 месяца назад

Will wax work with using basic ML routines

@AppliedCryogenics 3 месяца назад

I've never heard of any memory expansion for the vic-20 that supported page flipping. It seems like it should be relatively easy to have some portion of the CPU address range relocatable within a larger physical address range.

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

I believe that's how Retro Innovation's "UltiMem" works, but the main problem is that software has to be written to specifically support it.

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

Oh, and I think that's also basically how RAM expansion in The 8-Bit Guy's Commander X16 works: taking the VIC-20's memory map as a starting point, and then allowing page-flipping in a couple ranges. At least at one point I think it was like that, maybe it changed.

@DaveCurran 3 месяца назад

@@8_Bit The Penultimate does actually do this as part of the internal workings, but so far there hasn't been any software which needed more. Maybe something than can be exploited in future? And as you say would have to be specifically written to use it.

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

@@DaveCurran That would be pretty cool. If you've got a big enough base of Penultimate owners, and it's the same or similar banking scheme across many models so the program could support it without a real mess of different schemes, then maybe there's a place for some super-expanded VIC-20 games that make use of all the extra RAM.

@terryraymond7984 3 месяца назад

I wish the Commodore Vic Mon could be used with expanded memory, I assume it was just for the unexpanded Vic20???

@DaveCurran 3 месяца назад

There are several versions of VIC MON on the Penultimate Cartridge, all of which use the maximum amount of expanded memory, some is lost due to the VIC MON ROM itself.

@Breakfast_of_Champions 3 месяца назад

How did we ever think the VC-20 was old and from a passed generation😂

@AxelWerner 3 месяца назад

Hey Robin! Few weeks ago i got courious and looked up some disassambly or even the original commented c64 kernel source code (assembly) and tried to follow the reset vector to get some undestanding how the startup and stack wizardry works. cant remember exactly at what pos i found it, but i found some places that are supposed to contain just a bunch of memory addresses in a row, like a lookup table. However the sourcecode mentioned them as "vectors" that need to be called by pushing the values to the stack first and then call it somehow.... it went right over my head and my brain gave up. Does this (to me) strange method of calling kernel subroutines sound familiar to you and do you have covered this mechanics already in some video for me to learn more? lookled like math and stack wizardry to me. thanks and keep on rocking!

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

Hi! I don't think I've covered that before, but yeah, that's a fairly common way of calling one-of-many routines on 6502-family processors since it's easy to put a bunch of locations in a table and look them up without a bunch of comparisons and branching to deal with all the cases. The programmer is free to push whatever they want on the stack, including the address of a routine just like a JSR does, and then it's sort of a hack/misuse to call RTS to have the CPU pull those values back off the stack into the Program Counter and start executing that code. Due to a quirk of how JSR/RTS works, you actually have to push the destination address minus one onto the stack, as the value gets incremented automatically. Many assemblers have a special pseudo-op to handle these "minus one" addresses.

@terryraymond7984 3 месяца назад

wish there was a free drawing for that cartridge

@markjreed 3 месяца назад

What, no coverage of VICFORTH? Forth language programming my favorite is! :)

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

Video previous covered briefly that was :)

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

If youtube doesn't eat this: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JTxiR4ZKfvo.html

@johnwatson4801 3 месяца назад

@@8_Bit😂😂

@johnwatson4801 3 месяца назад

@@8_Bit😂😂

@weedmanwestvancouverbc9266 3 месяца назад

I just bought this cartridge a few months ago. Is there any way to upgrade this one to the new features?

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

I think the cartridge pcb has had some physical changes/improvements and it's not just a ROM upgrade, unfortunately.

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

Maybe check with TFW8b?

@DaveCurran 3 месяца назад

@@8_Bit This version has been shipping for a few months now, so you may already have the latest version.

@m0nde 3 месяца назад

MAJIKEYRIC is likely pronounced Magic Eric.

@csbruce 3 месяца назад

15:03 It's fun how the wheels blow off if you get hit in the air. 26:10 What happens if you execute an INPUT statement in the first five lines of the screen? 42:30 It seems kind of bonkers to integrate an assembler into BASIC execution. 48:52 Pick you poison: the main letters are six pixels across, so letters with a single vertical line will be misaligned by one pixel whichever side you choose.

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

re: wAx, kind of bonkers, but also fairly powerful? Being able to use BASIC variables and IF/THEN and FOR/NEXT etc. to control assembly seems ripe with possibilities. I think I'd prefer the letters to be a little left than a little right but I can get by as it is :)

@DavidYoud 3 месяца назад

@2:13 that looks a lot like Creative Software's City Bomber (1982), which I still have the box for all these many years later. :)

@jeffreyphipps1507 3 месяца назад

In most cases, 95/97 and above is A+, 90-95 is an A (85+ is B+ etc.). This affects the grading if converted to a different numeric system (schools). This is where it starts to vary wildly. A school might assign a GPA as 4.5 to A+ OR 4.0 and then 3.5 to A. Messy. These days, most schools don't get into that because someone's feelings might get hurt . Yes I teach uni - can you tell? I'm unclear why we even bother with a D grade anymore - you cannot graduate with a D now. At least not on core curriculum (don't know if it's true if it only occurs on electives).

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

Your comment reminds me that bizarre differences in letter grading benefited me greatly one year when I transferred back from a year in Australia, returning to Canada. I was less than focused on my studies in .au and did quite poorly in some classes, but the bizarre letter scheme (which I don't entirely remember) looked much better than it actually was to the high school office employee tasked with converting my academic achievements back into the Ontario system.

@jeffreyphipps1507 3 месяца назад

@@8_Bit well it’s better than my parents E,S,U grading when they were in school…

@Okurka. 3 месяца назад

It says a lot about the school system when a uni teacher doesn't know the difference between "effects" and "affects".

@jeffreyphipps1507 3 месяца назад

@@Okurka. I do know the difference, but I made a human mistake. It says a lot about a person who can't understand that others are fallible. Hopefully you will learn more respect as you age.

@Okurka. 3 месяца назад

@@jeffreyphipps1507 You already had edited your post and still left in the "human mistake". I can understand that others are fallible; I can't understand that a so-called uni teacher makes a mistake at his own language and leaves it in an edited post. A uni teacher who makes such a rookie mistake and then doesn't correct it doesn't deserve respect.

@RonHelton 3 месяца назад

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🕹🕹🕹🕹🕹🕹

@RodHull_TFW8b 3 месяца назад

Operation Ganymed FTW

@faultychip 3 месяца назад

Annoyed I just got the older version a month ago! Still 😊

@williamsquires3070 3 месяца назад

Gamers ask, “Can it play Doom”? Programmers ask, “Can it connect to a SQL database”? Hardware hackers ask, “Can you take it apart and over-clock it”? 😂

@DaveCurran 3 месяца назад

Replies in order: "Yes", "no", and "I'd rather you didn't."

@michaelrivers1654 3 месяца назад

Why would somebody name a cartridge a word that means "second to last"?

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

The retro computer market was already full of cartridges and expansions claiming to be "the ultimate".

@StefanHolmes 3 месяца назад

We have the modern Ultimate cart for C64 and the VIC-20 could be seen as the C64’s younger sibling.

@normank1144 3 месяца назад

😱 Promo'SM

@JohnDoe-ec1mz 3 месяца назад

More insightful but useless CRAPS average retro enthusiasts couldn't care less about !! Why ? Why ? Why ?

@8_Bit 3 месяца назад

I don't really understand. You're lamenting the fact that the average retro enthusiast doesn't care about the VIC-20? Or about this cartridge? Or about these development tools?

@VIC-20 3 месяца назад

The VIC sold several million units. My dad bought one for the family when it was the latest thing. It matters to some people. Had the super expander cart, books, tape deck and typed in dozens of basic programs from magazines. I do not think I’m alone.