People ‘don’t want truth’ about the Israel-Hamas war | Howard Jacobson 

difficult. It must be very hard for You.

Thank you for having the courage to think independently - even against the influence of your entire family. People like you are few and far between, however it is in the hands of independent thinkers peace has a future.

That's a very interesting example of the 'doublethink' Orwell imagined in his novel, Nineteeen Eighty Four.

Me too i remember one year ago i cheered October 7th terrorist attack because i was brainwashed and kinda antisemitic.

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

Yeah they all complain casualties in Gaza Should remember bombing of Dresden how many innocents there

TRUE ✝️🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿☮️

Correct. Imagine that on October 7th the IDF had positioned itself so that the population of the Israeli border would serve as a shield in the ensuing confrontation, or had dug in its trenches at the Military Bases. Perhaps then Israel would have had a "reasonable" number of deaths to claim.

@@Elvys240 Border? Is Gaza a country? Of course not. Stop being an ignorant or lying idiot. Gaza is a concentration camp, Fact. The inmates of that Concentration camp, were put in there by the earlier Jewish assylum seakers,so the palestinions, on Oct 7th, constructed a jail break. A jail break from being illegally oppressed, illegally by the Israeli jewish oppresrs.

So were are Hamas supposed to place themselves? Are they supposed to stand in a field (there aren't many in Gaza) under a big flag saying 'here we are Israel lets fight' - they wouldn't last 5 minutes.

Do you know how densely populated Gaza is , there are no wide open spaces .

@@marywhite2407 Yes there are plenty open space, they could have dug their tunnels there or perhaps they could have built bomb's shelters for the civilians, haven't thought of that ?

It was not nuanced. It was 2 zionists rationalising away evil.

Err, who is attacking who?

Throughout history, people kept attacking other people, then making peace. The issue to consider always was: Are we in a situation to make sensible peace? What are the guarantees?

@@lancemaleski6077 : That's very obvious. Who attacked on October 7th and started this war ?

@@buildmotosykletist1987 I think “the war” started a long time before Oct 7th last year, do you?

@@lancemaleski6077 : This war started on October 2023. Are you a fool ?

impressive!

She doesn't mention the Hannibal Directive. She is a maniac

.... No

Change into what and for what purpose needs clarifying before that question can be answered. In terms of the attitudes surrounding say the venture into Iraq, if we were to apply that to Iran, I think its pretty clear why we shouldnt be seeking (forcing) a regime change in Iran. We should absolutely be seeking regime change in Israel though haha. After all we are economically, militarily and politically far more entangled with them than Iran and can use that to influence to pressure regime change.

because the initiative belongs to the people of Iran?

No. It is obviously not wrong in any way. The status quo is wrong.

​@@jackconway5875Change from a theocratic and autocratic dictatorship the population despises into any other form of government. Also, no one suggested invading Iran to do this. Any intervention, even minor, would likely help spark this change from within Iran.

​@@Alicja1Fenigsen...and they desperately want it.

not just for years: generations are going to be afflicted; I was born in the ruins of WWII, where not only countries, but every individual person was heavily damaged one way or another and I see my grown up children unwittingly pass some of the traumas on, the pain, the anger - - - (therapy? there are no "real" pre-trauma selves to be restored, that background is what we are made of; replacements can be constructed, given endless effort and lots, lots of time and opportunity, their durability still to be seen)

"oh no, you have the wrong lenses, here are the right lenses, guys". Gee, how can we argue against such logic. I am lost for words 🤣

That is very one-sided again. It is also normal inhabitants being chased out for zionist ideas and christian apocalypse freaks. There is a lot of money going into that area with no good plans. the Rothshields bought a lot of land around 1948. And now usa christian group fund jewish people to move to there to occupy a palestinian his house. and fund a lot of the bombs.

No, it's not a war between religious beliefs. There lies the path of nutters. This is a war between theocracy and democracy. Democracy is secular.

@@rmdomainer9042 you have to remember that most people here are about 14 years old.

​@@colingibson7324 Hehe. Yes that is most likely the truth. These people never saw Moshe Dayan on the TV, nor did they hear about the Folke Bernadotte assassination. They only know what they have been fed.

No Jews, no news. You're right

Israel should never have been founded, at least not in its current form. Since its foundaion Israel has stolen Palestinian land, murdered Palestinians and denied their human rights. Israel was set up without consulting the existing population whose roots went back hundreds of years. Furthermore the extent of the territory that Israel was established is far greater than that occupied by Jews prior to the diaspora. Israel has done all of this with only the token slap on the wrist from the west. Put yourself in the shoes of the Palestinians. Inaction by the west has made Gaza and the West Bank fertile breeding grounds for radicalisation. Unfortunately it was inevitable and testament to the lack of foresight of the WW2 victors in their haste to make some sort of reparations for the Jews. It is mainly our fault.

As is Iran.

Well only because it wants everything it's way. Why not remove the settlements from the West Bank? Times and it's guests are more interesting when you look at what the "reasonable" people don't say

So were are Hamas supposed to place themselves? Are they supposed to stand in a field (there aren't many in Gaza) under a big flag saying 'here we are Israel lets fight' - they wouldn't last 5 minutes.

Like in other places in the world - you have army bases separately from population centers. Nasralla was killed in a bunker that was positioned under high rises in a civilian neighbourhood. Does this make sense?

@@lizberezin2919The Palestinians are not even allowed to have a state let alone a conventional army, Israel is so much more powerful and better equiped than its adversaries, thus they have to hide - basic guerilla warfare

@@lizberezin2919 Maybe Israel should let the Palestinians have a state, let them form themselves a conventional army, arm themselves to the teeth with the most advanced weaponry in the world, get a world superpower to stand right behind them. Maybe then they could fight a 'fair fight' ??

It's called cognitive dissonance and it's used to justify evil.

Can you blame them?

​@@lancemaleski6077 Of course

Not true ! Stop repeating this Netanyahu trope. Palestinians will live with Israelis . Just fooken give them their part of the land.

I strongly believe if Israel represented Peace, Equality and Justice rather than the ongoing subjugation, dispossession and oppression of the Palestinian people then there would be peace. From a Brit with christian Palestinian heritage.

@@Badgerbeard The Palestinians and arabs refused the partition in 47 because they wanted the whole land !!

how the world really works is by deterense , its not in the nature of evil and ignorance to listen and to reason , to answer your question , it ends when deterrance is established - unconditional surrender

Islam is the only religion that takes a terrorist as a role model. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KWqAIzkddoY.htmlsi=hX43OTBAhR5vkhHq

That's not true.

then why is Israel killing tens of thousands of Gazans? Why are settlers systematically colonising the West Bank and chasing out Palestinians?

It has always been about the territories.

@@rmdomainer9042for the Gazians, correct

@@jakeroper1096 For both, you'd have to be blind to not realize that. Zionism is a settlement program by definition. Settling in a place where others lived.

Are you saying it is Israel's fault, complacency, a brief sign of weakness that cause and justify Hamas action?

Every days there are many warnings of terror attacks, they have to choose wich one are more likely to occur... their was a ceasefire with Hamas, they fooled Israel as they said they didnt want to fight any more. Naivety, generosity and forgiveness can't survive in this region

Really? could I quote: Ideology Ethnic cleansing was always the goal of the Zionists, even before the start of WWII: "There is no choice:the Arabs must make room for the Jews of Eretz Israel. If it was possible to transfer the Baltic peoples, it is also possible to move the Palestinian Arabs." - Ze'ev Jabotinsky 1938 - There is no justice, no law, and no God in heaven, only a single law which decides and supersedes all-[Jewish] settlement [of the land]. Ze'ev Jabotinsky I have met many Jews, Christians and Muslims who tell me that their faith keeps them in support of humanity rather than inhumanity and in support of the oppressed rather than the oppressor. I have a big problem with people who use religion as an excuse for violence. I see Zionism as a political entity that does just this. Islam is a religion with fundamentally humane values I object to people who use it as an excuse for violence. Compare and contrast with theology: "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah." - Rabbi Hillel (1st century B.C.)

Try looking at the casualty numbers.

@@lancemaleski6077 Why should I? Is that how you decide the morality of WW2?

@@sheilamacdougal4874 We are talking about Gaza.

Now look at the Likud charter.

@@lancemaleski6077 You mean you use a different standard for Gaza than for the rest of the world. Ok.

British security establishment ??

Foolish man. I'm embarrassed that the contributor regards Howard Jacobson as a member of the security establishment when in actual fact he's a novelist and essayist.

what you imply is racism

That's the problem right there. Stand a Palestinian and an Israeli next to each other in the same clothes. Often, you wouldn't be able to tell which is which. So how is this about race?

@@retromograph3893 You're more likely to hear a derogatory remark from the Muslim to the Jew than vive-versa...wanna bet?

@@retromograph3893 You are right here, but otherwise barking up the wrong tree. I respond to the previous comment where the author (You) says, I quote: " the essential problem...... he wakes up each morning torn over his partisan feelings. Why doesn't he tie himself in knots of the people in Syria or Yemen or Myanmar?" so denying a person (of Jewish descend) the right to have the knowledge he has, as no one knows everything and some parts of the world can be more familiar that others, and to feel what he feels for right at this very dramatic turn. In effect, You imply that Jews only care for Jews, which is a very old, very worn out racist, yes, racist lie. The interviewee never says that he does not feel for other victims, only that he worries about that now. Let anyone who can embrace the entire world sufferings all at once cast the first stone. BTW does Hamas care about Myanmar and how do you know that?

@@Alicja1Fenigsen Yes, i would like to deny the right (or at least point out the futility) of Jews or Muslims to act disproportionately, vengefully and feed this spiral of wack-a-mole violence.

You miss one thing Its not one time situation Palestinians prepere go to the border And play it like they might attack many many times Its like crying wolf story At some point there was belief They wouldnt dare Its only for internal manipulation of intent Its not the first time But if you look at it wider What israel can do ? It cant attack without provocation And wven with provocation you can see how the entire world is reacting Without provocation It would be much much worse

As an atheist Israeli, I can assure that, from the Israeli side, this has nothing to do with hatred of Islam. Most Israeli Jews are not very religious, and a large part are not religious at all. Moreover, this conflict started when Israel was run by a totally secular government. Also, Judaism is not a missionary religion. It does not want to convert anybody.

@@albertowachsmanso why are the settlers marching through Jerusalem chanting hate to Islam?

@@albertowachsman I would say that from the jewish side, there's just no segregating the religious belief and genetic tribal identity. And part of that identity is in the existence of Isreal as a land. That is, the jewish people believe there is something holy or special in this dirt and buildings. Their god gave it to them. And Israel, no matter how "secular" you want to say the state is or the people might be, is effectively a theocracy based on a tribal religious identity. You are born a jew, and this is your land. There's no division between genetic ties to family and other people in that community and the religion. The reality is, all people want to convince their kids they are genetically a muslim, jew, christian etc.... I don't buy this argument. Now, if you were to ask me which side of this conflict is beyond rational discussion about their faith and teachings, and their hostility toward others, it would be the muslims. It's a religion that is presently fervent to an extreme. And it is a missionary religion interested in converting as many as people as possible and has overtly stated that it wants Israel erased. Pragmatically, knowing that you will never be able to bomb this "brainwashing" away, the Isrealis are, at some point, going to have to identify a point at which they say, this is enough.

@@kevinn1158 You can be genetically a Jew but there is no such thing as a genetic Christian or Muslim.

Agreed, but it's not that easy when the occupied side wants to destroy your country. You are left only with bad choices. When Israel left Gaza, that was the hope. But look what they got.

You are obviously NOT, else you would have been on d streets since Children in Syria, Congo, & northern Nigeria.

@@albertowachsman Actually the peace agreement with Yasser Arafat was the hope and Netanyahu purposely stepped all over that. Reap what you sow I suppose.

@@nubosite Excuse me , but this what-about-ery doesn't work as the UK US and friends don't actively provide political cover and weapons for those. btw I think they are also bad but at least I can actually do something about the former.

@@albertowachsman And does it ever occur to you that anger and animosity towards Israel might be related to the occupation? This is literally one of the same arguments that was made against ending apartheid in SA, segregation and slavery in USA. ie "We cant give them freedom because theyll seek revenge on us if we do"

What was the source? What you have to understand is that dead babies are Hamas propaganda wins. So who should you blame?

Hamas hides behind these babies. Shameful.

Ask yourself - why are the babies not in a bomb shelter ? Because in Gaza despite the west pouring billions there are no bomb shelters for civilians There are thousands of tunnels but Hamas does not allow civilians to take shelter there … Why ? Because they use them as human shields Never in the history of mankind Has a regime used its own civilians as human shields not even the nazis This is a urban warfare that is unprecedented in history. Understand there are 400 miles of tunnels dug under Gaza that the hamas built with western aid funding and zero bomb shelters for the population in Gaza Yet unlike London underground in World War 2 Hamas forbids any civilians to take shelter in these tunnels What do you say ?

Because they are. They parrot their propaganda. These marxist processors on college campuses write in favor of these groups.

This prison could have been a thriving community if all the aid has been used as intended. As you know it was used for tunnels and rockets.

They put themselves in that so called prison, Israel and the Palestinians accepted the mandate and land split, both signed and agreed to what was given. The Arab nations didn’t like Israel controlling holy/religious sites, which is why they teamed up to attack Israel, Israel beat the Arab nations and took more land in spoils of war. Why was hamas asking for the original borders that they were given lol???? They were literally asking for Israel to go back to the original borders that were set in the mandate…….!!!! So it’s enough land now, but wasn’t enough land then? They’ve had billions and billions in aid to build a lovely state, they’d rather spend the money on rockets and tunnels. Absolutely horrific what’s happened to the Palestinians, yet they, and the Arab nations started this mess years ago.

Gaza could be the Singapore of the middle east But Hamas used the billions of western aid to build tunnels

​@@narendra62why will they anyone choose to leave in a prison? When there options for better life

@@kylegill4932 "agreed to what was given by a bunch of colonial and evangelical nutbags" FTFY

But with the potential to be far greater.

"the people who knew how to run a country" Which people are these?

@@jackconway5875 The ancestry of Brits ,Boers, Indians, etc....S Africa is called the " Rainbow Nation" races of all kinds, but today if you are Black it is easier to get a job than if you are White, ( reverse racism)if Colored good luck, such was the case during the Apartheid era, but today the S.Aafrica Border is almost open with Poorer African people North of the border coming in, just like South Americans and Mexican crossing into USA, taxing our SOCIAL SERVICES severely.

@@AuralioCabal Strange because I asked you which people are you referring to when you said "the people who knew how to run a country" Ill ask again, which people are you referring to?

@@jackconway5875 The Whites used to run the SAfrican govt, then the ANC , then all went downhill from then.Now they cheer for Russians war in Ukraine and cheer for Hamas and Hezbolah., you live under a rock?

The Israel-Palestine (Hamas) and Israel-Lebanon (Hezbollah) conflicts are hardly wars between nation-states.

@@krishnanunnimadathil8142 Indeed. It is the very (impossible) IDEA, the seductive fatamorgana of a "pure" nation-state I blame for almost exactly two hundred years (since the crushing of the liberal decembrist uprising) of cataclysms.

@@krishnanunnimadathil8142 Indeed. It is the (impossible) IDEA, the seductive fata morgana of "pure" nation-state that I blame for almost exactly two hundred years (since the crushing of the decembrist uprising) of cataclysms.

@@Alicja1Fenigsen To be clear “from the river to the sea” is not a Jewish slogan.

@@krishnanunnimadathil8142 obviously

Why do you say that with the World now very possibly on the road to Thermonuclear World War III? Have you, yourself, ever been under lethal military arms for any Nation? That experience can focus the mind wonderfully and is often the beginning of seeking wisdom for many. There is a very interesting Jungian level in this discussion - especially if that is a photograph of Mary Sutherland Maxwell on the bookcase over Howard Jacobson's shoulder? It may or may not be, but to move deeper regardless to discern the "silly" and "non-silly" in the Nuclear Age, you need to read the 1969 Book "Hamlet's Mill: An Essay Investigating the Origins of Human Knowledge And Its Transmission Through Myth" by Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Dechen and then do some research to fully understand WHY Michael Cimino has that barely disguised 1956 Ford "Customline" VICTORIA parked in the Street before "Welsh's Lounge" in "Clairton, PA" in the 1978 Film "The Deer Hunter". Good luck to you and yours amid what is coming in the 2040's.

Israel is belong to the Jewish people

keep crying.

@@michka7806 😂

We probably be in Israel only for additional 3000 years just. Wait

Nov 30 1947

The past regime in Iran change led to this regime. The operation enduring freedom led to the regime change in Afghanistan, which is now ended. Vietnam war had to do with regime change. The second Iraq war was regime change, leading to isil. you get a period of bloody distress and you don't know where you end up.

​@@ducx23Could it get any worse in a country with a Morality Police, a country where women are butchered for showing a few strands of hair? Regime change now. The Iranian people deserve better.