There is evidence that Persephone was an underworld goddess before she was ever a nature goddess, referred to as "Despoina", or "the Queen", so as to avoid using her real name. She's definitely a chthonic deity to a greater degree than she is a nature deity, since MOST of that is Demeter's job, anyway.
I wish more people were aware of this, but most only reach far enough back to confirm their agenda, I like that OSP went as far back as possible to be able to give as much context and information as possible
Red from Overly Sarcastic Productions did a similar deep dive into Persephone and she found that her origins and myths are far older then that of Hades. While Hades is a god from the classic era, Persephone is a goddess from the bronze age, and could possibly be one of the original rulers of the underworld Great video as always guys!
The first part of her name is thought to be cognates with the word Persis, which refers to a woman from Persia, with references to the the nymph Perse and the hero Perseus. Or it could be the Ancient Greek word for destroy, "pertho".
The only silver lining for Persephone is that Hades stayed loyal to her despite being a king of his own realm, and the two being together for only 3-6 months in a year
@@DeltaOdyssey Minthe happened during the marriage i believe. Leuce jumps between before the marriage or during the marriage. compared to his brothers, Hades has a fairly decent track record
Persephone is always such a fascinating subject because it really has so many layers on autonomy, patriarchal customs, and of course the dynamics of love. Really fun illustrations and storytelling as always!
What about parallels in the Bible? In the book of Revelation, Satan is abducted from the heavens and taken against his will to a particular place in Hell ruled by an angel that the KJV says is named "Hades." He's also called Abaddon. At a certain point, the Bible says Satan is released for a "little season," Just as Persephone and Adonis were.
@@eoincampbell1584 this is not reading Red's theories as facts, this is seeing a channel doing a more in-depht analysis with the support of archeological documentation and pitching against a sub-par "woke" video. I usually love Dr Z's work (I don't know how many times I've re-watched her Mothman video) but this one was lazy. She choose a particular line of narrative and dismissed all of the others as "yeah, some version may be saying that" which is an absolute crime with mythologies that predate written transcriptions and give us many equally valid versions of the same myth. This video was obviously cashing on the whole "big bad Hades" spiel and failed to treat as equally important literature all the versions of the myth where Persephone actually desires to stay in the Underworld, where they are a loving couple, where the bride is treated as important as the groom. Dr Z usually does a stellar job with these videos but this... this one was just bad...
@@brotquel1592 Dude she literally did talk about how in many versions they are a loving couple and how in almost all interpretations Persephone becomes Hades' equal as queen of the underworld. But in every single version other than modern ones (which were also mentioned) the kidnapping *is* kidnapping, full stop. Persephone was not expecting it and Demeter objects heavily to it. It would be academically dishonest not to acknowledge that sexual violence which is core to the myth. If you want to see a video which really does play up the Hades as villain angle there's TedEd's recent one where they literally animated him as this cackling scheming cartoon and it's ridiculous. This video does not do that, it provides all interpretations.
@@eoincampbell1584 well the ancient word for it has been taken a different connotation. But yes he did kidnap her but it was because her father said so. And in Ancient Greece as far as I remember that’s all that was needed because women didn’t have rights remember?
Glad you mentioned how all versions of Persephone’s versions were taken without consent. Regardless of how in-love she was with Hades in some myths, taking someone without consent is never ok.
@@kelseylundry7981 No, Zeus giving Hades permission to kidnap Persephone is not consent in the slightest. That’s not how consent works. Consent cannot be given on another person’s behalf in any situation. The only scenario that would be consensual and acceptable is if Persephone herself gave Hades permission to take her.
@@kelseylundry7981 consent from Zeus really isn't consent. The whole kidnapping a woman to be your wife thing is rampant in Greek Mythology. I do try consider that the mores of the time were not the same as now and keep that in context, but I think it's valid to also compare and contrast the two.
@@kelseylundry7981 I wasn't the OP, but yeah I am aware of her older and probably more terrifying beginnings. :-) As well as the fact that compared to most of the Greek romances it was pretty tame. There are plenty of cultures today that still value the patriarch's opinion more than anyone else in the family.
Demeter's character after Kore's abduction reminds me of Parvati who later became Annapurna. Demeter reacted similarly to how Parvati reacted to Shiva.
When you think about it, it kinda makes sense that those two stories are similar. The Sanskrit language (and its descendants like Hindi) has the same origin as the Greek language: Proto-Indoeuropean. And since many of the gods of hinduism have similar names to greek god names, it can be inferred that both pantheons share a same old indoeuropean origin. It then makes sense that many of the stories share similar tropes, although most details are completely different. Just like the languages differenciated from one another and evolved over time, so did the myths!
Dang, Hindu mythology. Im familiar to it when I was a child, binge watching all adaptation of them like crazy, now I don't even remember anything anymore. Sad.
I know it's odd I think how people react like "OMG seriously?!? He's her uncle! it's just WRONG" but yet these same people apparently don't realize that Zeus and Hera are brother/sister despite being married, and Zeus is also Demeter's brother and actually if I recall correctly Zeus is actually the YOUNGEST of the original olympic gods. I've heard that Artemis at one point was romantically involved with her twin brother Apollo too. So yeah Incest was kind of a thing with the old Gods
I adore Persephone, she’s one of my absolute favorite goddess in mythology and it was her story that made me fell in love with it in the first place as a child.
I learned in my college class that kore means maiden. It was a title. Not her name. Persephone was always her name. It means thresher of wheat. A name fitting for the daughter of Demeter. I've never heard the part with the nymph.
Your college professor is right, yet also the Greek word for “girl” is “kore” it is a word that can be translated with some variation. “Kore” also means “daughter”.
Also, death deities in Ancient Greece were usually given friendly titles because using their names could cause them to pay attention to you. And no one wants a death deity's attention
Persephone may be one of the female characters in Greek mythology that has the most agency, yet the way she transformed Minthe into mint is still an honest reflection of female intrasexual competition under patriarchy. In the end, it is always easier to be a rebel, but difficult to be a revolutionary.
Idk I'd probably not appreciate having some thot try and steal my man away from me and get away with it. You don't need the patriarchy to put down flagrant audacity.
Oh good grief. Everything is the patriarchy’s fault. 🙄 sometimes a tree is just a tree. Women have always been competitive with or without men. Own it and stop shoving blame. 🙄
It's weird hearing Hades been spoken of in such a negative way. He's always one of the nicest ones, especially when it comes to his wife. Even the kidnapping was painted in a neutral light, one that was okay during the time.
Also lets not forget that ZEUS ARRANGED THE KIDNAPPING WITHOUT DEMETER'S CONSENT (even though Demeter was the one ACTUALLY took care of Persephone.)! I mean, it's still bad that Hades kidnapped her but Zeus actively encouraged him to do so without consenting the actual mother or even Persephone. From the way I see it, Hades probably wouldn't have kidnapped her if Zeus hadn't let him. Up until that point Hades was just admiring Persephone from afar. So I feel like Zeus was the real villain in the story. Also, Hades and Persephone are the most loyal couple in greek mythology out of the other gods.
@@autisticdancer Yeah, Hades probably thought it was ok since he had permission from her father and the King, but he still didn't stop to ask whether Persephone or her mother were ok with, or even aware of, the arrangement. Maybe he assumed they were, but regardless of intentions, what happened was not ok
@@moongirl786 Yeah. I'm definitely not saying that Hades kidnapping Persephone was okay, because that wasn't and is NEVER okay. But I don't think Hades would have kidnapped her if Zeus didn't give him permission.
@@autisticdancer Hades was a very lawful character. He wasn't rebellious. If Zeus hadn't given permission, Hades would have either tried to convince him harder or tried to think of another way that was lawful.
@@autisticdancer Hades is literaly the older brother of Zeus, how is Zeus able to make his head? Hahaha, Hades is a god with thousands of years old, there is no way he dont have his part of the blame here.
I’m from Canada, so I’ve always wondered how’d they account for those random snowfalls in May with this story. Is it that Persephone had a fight with her mom and went back to the Underworld to calm down for a few days lol?
if you go off of the original hymn of demeter, both hecate and helios helped demeter find persephone and hades tricks her into eating the pomegranate seeds by saying she can return to her mother then brushes her lips with the pomegranate seed so she has consumed some of it and has to stay for some of the time, instead of being based on the number of seeds consumed. also theres a whole section of the myth in that text that sets up the eleusian mystery cult in the mythology by talking about a son of an important mortal who demeter tries to make into a god by placing him in the hearth to burn away his mortality and feeding him ambrosia but is interrupted by the boys mother, so he must remain mortal but demeter grants him her favor, and demeter reveals herself and forces eleusis to build a grand temple for her to divert her anger from them
Ayyy, it's so awesome seeing Persephone getting more attention and love beyond her kidnapping from Hades; glad that Persephone's original name, Kore, was brought up, since it hardly ever comes up 🥰
I took Latin in high school and have been interested in Roman and Greek mythologies ever since. I had not heard the name Kore before (at least I don't remember it-i am getting pretty old haha). Thanks for the continued education!
You should read The Changing of The Gods. She helps Hades punish everyone for their misdeeds. You can find it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble and Author House. All are available online only.
fun fact she had names before Kore if I recall correctly, back before hades was a thing(yeah myths of Persephone in one form or another predate Hades. she's truly ancient)
From what I have heard, it was the older versions that were the happiest, not the other way around. Persephone in the older versions loved Hades and being queen of the underworld, while later ones have Persephone being unhappy about it all. Persephone actually has a rich history as a goddess of the underworld from even before Greek mythology as we know it came to be, meanwhile Hades does not. He seemingly appears out of nowhere, meaning Persephone has a much longer history as an underwold deity than Hades does. Overly Sarcastic Productions have a great video about this: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Ac5ksZTvZN8.html
This isn’t true - the oldest version is the Homeric Hymn to Demeter that very specifically describes Persephone’s distress, and the violence in the act of abduction. OSP’s video is incredibly problematic and in many places is flat out wrong (like in the Mycenaean-origin/Poseidon=Hades).
So I did some quick googling and I was able to find sources claiming differently than you do here. It's not unreasonable for people to have different interpretations of myths.
@@EllieMackinRoberts Red outright says that some the Mycenaean stuff were just theories of hers. And it is the Homeric Hymn she references when she says it started out happier than most people think, and describes it quite a bit differently than you do.
@@TheHornedKing Reading the Homeric Hymn, even in translation, you can see that it’s not true. Persephone does - at the very end - accept Hades as her husband (I’m not denying their marriage is legitimate - it is, by the standard of the day), but she’s very much not happy about it and she obviously feels violated. You only have to read the hymn to see that. I know it’s not YT, but I have a whole playlist on TikTok about this - and also wrote a monograph called Underworld Gods in Ancient Greek Religion.
In one story while Persephone was resting in a meadow, Zeus (yes, her own father) in a form of a snake slithered into her womb, thus impregnating her and from this act Dionysus was born. Just in case you forgot that Greek mythology is weird.
Your version isn't weird enough. It wasn't Dionysos, it was Zagreus, who then got killed by titans and eaten. But then Athene got hold of his heart and brought it to Zeus, who then gave it to another woman he would sleep with, and that was Dionysos. And Zagreus' other remains fell into soil and became the first grapevines. Easy as that 😊
@@fermintenava5911 this myth is hinted at in the Hades game. Zues jokes about being Zag’s dad, and in another part Dionysus and Zagreus prank Orpheus by telling him they are actually the same person. And considering what happened the last time Orpheus didn’t listen to a god he basically believes everything he is told by them.
Persephone does not control life and death, her mother does. It is Demeter’s joy at her daughter’s return that causes spring, and the sorrow of Demeter without her daughter that brings the cold of winter. Persephone is forever a victim.
My favorite depiction of the myth has to be the Hades video game, especially since we actually get to see Persephone as a grown woman after everything has gone down. It also has my favorite depictions of the Greek gods in general, especially Demeter.
I think one of the main reason why i am fascinated with persephone is how she shows the duality women can wield inside themself. Being both zhe goddess of spring/resurrection depicted with flowers AND being the queen of the underworld. She can also be an image of resilience. Or a modern day interpretation of her managing her work life balance of working with her mother for nature, spring and then spending time with her hubby in hades lol
Love this channel. Persephone's story has always been super interesting to me, in part because of how open to interpretation many parts of it have always been. Hope you all do an episode on Astarte/Ishtar/Inanna one day!
I like the variant of this myth where Hecate is the informant in question as it really enhances her role as a cthonic underworld god with her being the goddess of crossroads and magic who resides in the underworld
Scene of the crime my foot! Nobody in the story recognized Hades as committing a crime when he kidnapped Persephone because it was an arranged marriage.
Makes me think about Inanna's Descent and the 7 gates. Only, it is her husband who ends up trapped in the underworld for half the year with Inanna's sister, Ereshkigal. Inanna went down there on purpose, also. She was not kidnapped or worse.
Thank you for examining the nuanced history of this myth for us. I'm glad to learn the ways it has been a story of women reclaiming their power and agency throughout its evolution. With that in mind, I'm increasingly puzzled by the term "consent" as it is currently being used. Consent is a vitally important factor in all human relations, and I agree that it's a useful lens for measuring reciprocal respect and empowerment. Even so, it seems too tame in some contexts. Hades indeed took Kore without her consent, but more to the point, he took her *against her will*. "Consent" feels to me like a way to smooth over the fact that it was a conflict, one entity's will against another - nay, an entire community's will against a young woman and her mother. The women lost the initial fight, but ultimately balanced the scales and reasserted their wills through artful application of their power.
Whilst I love the whole Joseph Campbell appreciation of myth-making, etc, I can't help but be endlessly amused by the inescapable element of incest in all of the primitive stories & creation myths that still inform our precarious worldview. Uncle-husbands and grandmother-wives all the way down, in all the myths...
To be fair, Norse mythology has less of it than Greek/Roman and Egyptian (those are the three pantheons I'm most familiar with, so I can't speak for much beyond them) they have multiple trees, instead one tree that keeps reattached to itself like Greek mythology. Hence why I went with Greek mythology when I was told to calculate the inbreeding coefficient of a few gods as homework for my animal breeding class. We were told we could use whoever we wanted as long as we sent the family tree we used as a reference along with the number we got. It was a fun assignment, most of the Greek gods I calculated were about 30%
@@Amy_the_Lizard Yeah, there's not really any major instances I can recall of incest featuring in Norse mythology, as compared to Greek/Roman myth, where it runs rampant, and Egyptian myth, although that one's always weird because some of the Egyptian deities seem to be aspects of other deities, and it's weird and hard to keep sorted. There's also minimal incest in the pantheon of the Japanese kami, though there's all kinds of other insanity going on there (the stories about Susano'o, for instance: he caused his sister Amaterasu--the sun goddess--to hide in a cave and leave the world in darkness because his idea of celebrating a victory involved taking a dump on her palace floors, trashing her rice fields, and flaying her heavenly steed, then throwing its carcass at her loom. There's all kinds of crazy going on in that family). That said, I love the idea of using the Olympus family tree for a project on calculating inbreeding. Seems ideal.
In the Hymn to Demeter, the only complete telling of the story, the narrator emphasizes that it was Zeus who ordered the kidnapping, it being his right as her father to arrange her marriage. It's said repeatedly that Hades was not at fault, except possibly the pomegranate arils (the only copy of the Hymn is actually torn at that point so we don't know details of how the whole aril thing worked). Hades is described as the best husband Persephone could hope for. But when Hermes went to try to get Persephone back, they don't describe her as fighting or starving, just missing her mom. Before she leaves, Hades promises to be a good husband to her, and every other myth supports that - they're pretty much the only couple that don't cheat on each other and when someone tries to mess with one of them, the other's response is to defend them fiercely. Persephone also seems to have embraced her role as queen of the underworld, given that she's referred to as "Dread Persephone" and when Odysseus is tormented by ghosts in the underworld he assumes Persephone sent them, not Hades.
I really like how stories like Persephone and hades tell us just how different an ancient civilization was, and, in the same vain, how the social thinking evolves in a society.
Season two of Star Trek Picard is riffing on this right now, even using the names other than Persephone. This video definitely makes me see those themes more clearly
I would have further elaborated on the periods you are talking about. It cas not really clear when u were talking about ancient greece myth and when u were refering to 1500AD onwards.
This is... not entirely accurate. I hesitate to say the video is misinformation, but it is skewing the truth by employing modern conceptions and notions to interpret the story. That aside, there are some blatant pieces of misinformation included. For one, there is no older myth that portrays it as sexual violence and Hades as a predator, that is exclusively a modern take on it. Originally it is told more as an arranged marriage (albeit Persephone does not know about it), with Zeus - Persephone's father - giving Hades permission to take her as his wife. Important to remember is that in visual storytelling of the time, the "Stock Pose" for kidnapping and marriage are identical, and the term Kidnapping has been skewed by modern examples of it being an extremely violent and aggressive act. This is not how the ancient Greeks shared the tale, nor how it was intended to be interpreted based on our sources. It is only later that we started to think of it as an act of predatory aggression and a violent crime. And even then, it is *Zeus* who is portrayed as the villain in this story, since he is the reason Demeter did not know, and likely also why the marriage did not proceed as "normal" (with the Bride being informed, I would assume). Hades' only crime in this story (in the context of the story) is the pomegranate seeds, which presumably are what tied her to the Underworld, forcing her to come back every once in a while. Otherwise, the story absolves him of all responsibility. It was Zeus who suggested/ordered the "kidnapping", and Hades did nothing other than follow suit, doing what he was allowed to do. Another point, it was *Demeter* who refused to eat or drink due to her grief, not Persephone. Helios, the Sun God, even goes out of his way to point out how Hades is the best possible husband she could have gotten, given his position, as she would be given rule over virtually everyone and everything (eventually, since she would come to rule the Underworld). Persephone *did* miss her mother, but by reading Homer's Hymn to Demeter, you can see that there's no mention of her refusing drink or food, this is something blatantly made up. The text following Persephone being described as missing Demeter, is messed up, so it being translated as "suffering from the things the gods had done to her" is an approximation, not entirely certain. I would even take the word "suffering" with a grain of salt. Reading these old texts, you'll notice a habbit of a lot of exaggeration when describing things. We should beware not to judge things based on our own, modern perceptions and notions, lest we misinterpret and misrepresent what was originally meant by the authors. There is also the matter of the anachronistic retelling of the story here. I'll skip the details of who told Demeter what and when, but she didn't go to Zeus immediately. She didn't even go to him, but rather made known to other Gods (whom Zeus sent to try to appease her and make her return to making things grow), that she would never let things grow again, or go to Olympus, until she saw Persephone. When Zeus heard this, from other gods, he sent Hermes to the underworld to tell Hades to let Persephone go. And he did, almost immediately, only stopping to promise her that he would be the best husband he could possibly be. This is also where he sneaks her the "pomegranate seed to eat", arguably his only crime in the entire story. There are passages that tell that Persephone was not happy with being kidnapped, but there is no evidence that she was unhappy *being there*, either with her treatment or with being Hades' wife and Queen of the Underworld. All of this I have taken from Homer's Hymn to Demeter, which is the oldest source we have of this particular story, with the oldest of the Homeric Hymns dating back to 700 BC; this is in contrary to the video's claims, and that it is younger revisions that try to portray the story as more sympathetic. It is the opposite, where younger versions seek to make it out to be worse than it is. Any other version than the Homeric Hymns, is a younger interpretation, or in some cases, outright mythological fanfiction with no basis in actual beliefs. If you want to be a channel that is all about teaching and sharing information, make sure to get your facts straight. This video feels like a lot of bad research, a lot of preconceived notions, and inconsistent script writing for the sake of enabling a biased, modernistic interpretation.
Can you provide a source for the whole kidnapping stock image = marriage stock image? That comes up a lot online, and I’ve seen actual experts in the field saying this is incorrect and a misconception. You also mention that there is nothing to say that Persephone was unhappy while in Hades’ realm - did you have a translation of the Homeric Hymn that scrubbed out mention of her being sad and unwilling, while in his home? I’ve tried reading as many sources as possible, and really only two tell the story as a full narrative - the Homeric Hymn, and Ovid’s version (who follows much of the Hymn). All other sources seem to be short mentions in passing when describing geographic locations, and not stories - e.g. ‘over to the west is such-and-such-place, where they say Hades stole Persephone’
@@russergee49 I read a translation of Homer's Hymn to Demeter while writing this to make sure I got the details correct, and you'll notice that I mention her being upset about having been abducted, and missing her mother, but with no details about how she thought of being there, or with the idea of being Hades' husband. So it's not as if I claimed she was all happy there, only that the exaggerated despair this video displays is, at best, an overdramatization, and misinformation at worst (with the "refusing the eat and drink" being blatantly untrue). As for the Stock Image, the best source I have is a comparison between Helen of Troy's abduction and the marriage of Hebe and Heracles, both on two different vases, but using the exact same general pose, as well as an, admittedly, second-hand source. Said source studies mythology for a living however, so I am inclined to trust them. If, however, you have anything credible that claims otherwise, I'd be interested in seeing it.
Why does everyone always equate the underworld with Hell? The underworld predates the concept of hell, if anything, it is recorded as the 'house of Hades', and even just Hades, being the name of the place and the god.
Like so many, you missed a lot about the figure of Persephone. I prefer OSP's video in which they analyse the origin of the myth. Knowing that Demeter and Persephone are older than most greek gods changes the way the myth can be interpreted. You took the story of her abduction at face value and didn't take the time to research where it came from. I call this discount mythology.
Greek mythology is already discount mythology. It's a wild mix of contradicting myths from both the Greek Peninsula and Classic Turkey that later generations try to press into a canon.
@@fermintenava5911 ha, not just later generations! Ever hear of a little thing called the Theogony? Expansion, reinterpretation, rationalization, and winnowing are all vital parts of the myth-making process.
I love that you’ve explored the agency of Persephone and the “dark” side of her myth that showed her as powerful and a force of nature, but I also want to ask, isn’t the trope of Persephone as a captured woman who warms to her captor, kind of an ancient male fantasy? The woman you can always have but can never REALLY have, and you love her for it? Feels like a tvtropes breakdown waiting to happen. I always wonder, who wrote down this myth? What made it so popular it was committed to pen and paper or um…cuneiform? However they wrote these things. (an extreme rarity in early cultures)?
“They call me evil. Villain. The Devil. But the joke is on them. For I don’t care what they call me. I don’t care what they think of me. I have a duty to fulfill, and such petty things can not detract me from responsibilities. All Gods have a duty to the world for we are bound to it and it’s people. But only *I* take it seriously. Only *I* don’t treat the world like my playground and the mortals as my playthings. I am firstborn of Kronos and eldest of the Olympians. Cheated out of my birthright by my own family, my own siblings! Yet I got the most important job of all, dispite no one knowing it. For in the hands of any of the lesser mature Gods I call my family, the dead would flood the world of the living. So let them spew their lies. Let them believe their falsehoods. It makes no difference nor matters not to me. After all…” *sly smirk* “All become my subjects eventually.” -Hades on Pop culture’s view of him. Also it’s believed that it was Persephone that was the feared one. Her epithets include “Dread Persephone” and “ The Pale Queen” among other metal titles. Heck as you even pointed out, even her name Persephone literally translates to “Harbinger of Doom/Destruction” which hints that she was the terrifying eldritch goddess of death, decay, and devastation itself.
A friend and one of my favorite authors, Benjanun Sriduankaew, is currently workshopping a retelling in which Hades is not a man, but a butch lesbian. That's literally all I know so far but, well, heck yeah. :D
If this video is about Persephone and not specifically the myth of Hades and Persephone then you should address pre-Helenic myths of Persephone not just Helenic versions.
I loved all the gods beings in Hercules, they were entertaining. Still dysfunctional, but entertaining. Lore Olympus has been great about how so many of the gods are self centered, violent and dishonest. All of which can be found in the original stories.
I thought Persephone is only the Queen of the Underworld?(Hades is the best husband btw, I love him being loyal to Persephone. Shame that we look down on him now as a "Satan figure" and because Zeus told Hades to kidnap Persephone.. anyway-) I haven't seen any writing of Persephone being a goddess of nature? Persephone is also mentioned as *"Dread Persephone"* in ancient writing, meaning before.. Persephone is completely the Queen of the dead, death, and the underworld. Idk where the nature goddess idea came from, if even from the beginning they're already seeing her as a goddess of the dead and death.. Idk anymore but I like the badass and edgy Persephone more than the warm, beautiful, spring bringer.
I agree, people should stop thinking that just because he's the ruler of underworld he's a satan. Man literally only does his duties 😩😩 And i think the goddess of nature is more relevant to Demeter than Persephone, most people thinks Persephone is the one who grows flowers after she came back to the earth, yet it's actually Demeter who's happy her daughter is back and starts to grow flowers...
@@beomgyuswaeng4204 absolutely, Demeter is responsible for all things nature in the world. Persephone is just her daughter until Hades married her. Demeter temporarily quits her job, and w i n t e r c o m e t h. That's because she's the ONLY nature goddess. wtf modern society? we have everything the greeks have written for all eternity now and you still don't think hundreds more times about this?
I was introduced to Greek mythology when I was in grade school, and loved the stories. I knew on a very basic level the story of Persephone and Hades and why there is winter, then spring.
Here's a theory, what if all the tales about zuez abandoning his children was to teach the people of the land not to mistreat orphans because they could incur the wrath of Zeus?
I feel like this video is seeing the myth in a way too feminist way: in greek mythology Hades and Persephone genuinely love each other and are treated as equals, with the bride being just as feared, respected and considered as powerful as the groom. Don't get me wrong: greek myth IS horribly mysogynistic... I just think that the myth of Hades and Persephone is not a good example of it.
@@Passions5555 well, you are partially right: it true that many greek myths have an insane amount of version, some predating Homer and written tradition, giving us the moter of all AUs genre, on the other hand... Persephone WAS just as feared AND respected as Hades, if not more. Persephone is one of the only cases of wife having equal powers as the broom in greek myth, where usually the husband holds a much higher status. We know that both Hades and Persephone were usually referred to by using epithets, being incredibly feared, in a "Voldemort" situation, so to say. Something that the video also fails to mention is: -Hades is not a degenarate for being Persephone's uncle. As a matter of fact, most couples in the greek pantheon are inbred (Zeus is married to his sister, Hera, and sired Demetra, another one of his sisters... also in some myths HE is the father of Zagreus from turning into a snake and having non-consensual sex with her daughter Persephone) -Hades wasn't the one who planned the kidnapping, Zeus basically ordere him to do so -In many versions Persephone goes to the Underworld on her own accord -Hades always treats Persephone with respect and as an equal, always seeking council and approval for important decisions (see Orpheus) while Demetra passes as the oppressive mother -The whole Hades is evil and forces himself over Persephone is actually one of the most recent interpretation of the myth, many theorizing it was inspired by christianity dumb interpretation of "Oh! He's the god of the dead! He must be evil then!" -Both Hades and Persephone were extremely loyal and protective of each other (see Theseus, Pirithus, Minthe...) Of course this is a myth with many readings, as most (if not all) are, however they decided to focus on the most "woke" one, especially if you compare this video to others they've made, brushing off the narratives that were not as provocative in what seems to be an attempt to cash on people "wrath of the righteus" making me feel like this video in particolar is a let down for the standards of this channel, which I usually immensely enjoy.
To be fair, he was not a good guy. He spent a lot of time raping women and/or setting them up to be raped. It's just that, in ancient Greek culture, that wasn't seen as such a bad thing. To them (and the Romans), his wife was seen as the bad guy for overreacting to him sleeping with everything that moved. Not that she gets a pass - she usually took her anger out on the victims.
Not even a reinterpretation in this case! The ancient authors (or at least all the ones I've heard of) go out of their way to emphasize that this one was 100% Zeus's fault. Hades filed all the appropriate paperwork, as it were. If Zeus fulfilled his paternal role properly, Hades would've either given up or attempted to woo her directly, Demeter notwithstanding. Given his drama-free reputation in contrast with pretty much the entire rest of the pantheon, probably the former.
@@twistedtachyon5877 True. And those aspects of his character were always there but in a lot of western retellings, Zeus was at least the lesser of two evils. I think some are now reconsidering that and probably about time! 🙂
I like it a lot! I was hoping to hear also some of the early Mycenaean versions of the goddesses and the myth as it's interesting to contemplate the rol of Persephone before Hades, but either way was a very nice vid and always a pleasure to hear Dr Z. For and interesting take on the mythology and some of the early Mycenaean religion I recommend the OPS video about Persephone and Hades
"...they saw the ghastly figure of Hades..." (Uses illustration of a decidedly hot Hades) 🤣🤣 Seriously though, love the series. And I had a cat named Persephone.
Despite the kidnapping and other bad things that happened, Hades and Persephone are one of the best couples in Greek mythology. I mean, compared to basically everyone else in the pantheon.
I would add the story of Pirithous who wants to kidnap Persephone as his wife because he deserves to marry a daughter of Zeus. As they traveled to the underworld and took a little rest, him and Theseus(who also kidnaps Helen btw) suddenly felt stiff until they realized the furies were holding them. After a while of waiting, Heracles appeared and helps Theseus escape, but when he tried to rescue Pirithous, the ground shook. Hades is a pretty good husband, never cheating(except the version where he cheats on Persephone with Minthe, but in most versions Persephone turn the girl into mint), and treats her with love. Even though the abduction kinda sucks and marrying your nephew is obviously not *okay* , he's atleast better than Zeus who marries his own sister-
As interesting as this was the version of the Hades/Persephone story that I read was that Hades was as much a victim as Persephone. On the day of the abduction Eros (Cupid in the Latin) fires an arrow which strikes Hades as he's out and this causes him to see and fall in love with Persephone before abducting her and leading to Demeter's search for her daughter before learning she's in the underworld. It's likely that since most Greek myths were mostly oral there's always some leeway with the interpretation of events within the same story
So much wrong so little time. 1. Persephone was the Goddess of the underworld long before this abduction story was created. 2. The ancient Greeks did not even recognize the concept of consent. A woman's body did not belong to her. It belonged to her husband, or, if she was unmarried, it belonged to the head of the household. 3. In some of the older versions, this is actually an arranged marriage. Zeus, who is her father gives Hades consent to take her. Not acceptable by our standards, but perfectly normal back then. And, keep in mind, that if Hades took her without Zeus' permission, that would be considered an offense against Zeus, not against Persephone.
Persephone to Hades: You are the kindest thing that ever happened to me, even if that is not how our tale is told. When everyone else told me i was destined to be a forgotten nymph that nutured flowers and turn meadows gold, you saw that the ichor that resides in me demanded its own throne. You showed me how a love like ours can turn even the darkest, coldest realm into the happiest of homes. Learn.
Apparently this is a bit of a modern misconception - it was in fact the opposite way around. Persephone wasn't in Hades during the winter, making the earth cold; she was in Hades during the _summer,_ causing hot draughts. Remember, this is Greece we're talking about, not northern Europe - their summers are hot and their winters are mild.
I love the idea that mother-daughter duo Demeter and Persephone represent life and death. A codependent cycle. All that live must die, and only in death can new life spring. And what relationship is more codependent than mother and daughter hahahahahahahahahahaha
Why is it that videos on Persephone (all myths mentioning her, not just the kidnapping 1) her role as both resurrectir & bringer of death (plagues, dusease) is glossed over? I'd like to hear more about that. The sources for that interest me.
I learned that greek mythos is all over the place and with lots plot holes. OSP posted that Persephone and Demetri predated Hades, being adopted into the patheon from an another, older worship/mythology.
Just saying but the lack of consent wasnt what caused the ensuing Chaos since it isnt Kore who is causing it. Its Kores absence and the resulting wrath/depression of Demeter that brings about the calamity of everlasting winter.
Heavy and hard is the heart of the king King of iron, king of steel The heart of the king loves everything Like the hammer loves the nail But the heart of a man is a simple one Small and soft, flesh and blood And all that it loves is a woman A woman is all that it loves And Hades is King of the scythe and the sword He covers the world in the color of rust He scrapes the sky and scars the earth And he comes down heavy and hard on us But even that hardest of hearts unhardened Suddenly, when he saw her there Persephone in her mother’s garden Sun on her shoulders, wind in her hair The smell of the flowers she held in her hand And the pollen that fell from her fingertips And suddenly Hades was only a man With a taste of nectar upon his lips, singing: La la la la la la la…
Becuase that’s probably not what her name means. There are many suggested etymologies for what it could mean, which are much more likely, but given how old her name is it’s unlikely we would ever know.
Wiht the amount of comic strips and fan fiction coming from mythology this channel will sum day only be able to make videos about it and not ancient mythology... lol
