I never liked endings where everyone forgets there adventure. But there is something about persona 2 showing that the mind and body can easily forget. But the soul will always remember
I do like the bittersweetness of this duology ultiamtely tho. Yes they will (mostly) forget, but Maya remembers, and.. just lets go of the past, of a fate that she is willing to move on from and because of it, it doesnt feel liek a reset like most of the "forget everything you worked for" scenarios in games or movies.
28:16 oh man this whole scene, and then the follow-up at the end, is absolutely wonderful. I can see why Satomi Tadashi liked it so much. To be an adult is to suffer one's own consequences, which you have to face head-on since no one but yourself can take responsibility for them. It's difficult and scary, but once they're overcome by your own hands, you start to understand yourself much better and you can see the good things in life again. Great job, man.
A bit of a nitpick, but Eternal Punishment takes place in 1999, just after August 18th. the line referencing persona 1 as 4 years ago is a mistranslation. good video so far!
Your interpretation of Maya's character is spot on and amazing! It's given me a new insight on the character. I love how you tackled a lot of the symbolism that I missed out on, which just blew my mind and would have never noticed without this analysis. Eternal Punishment definitely is a beautiful game.
Classical Persona was the best! It was well researched, filled with so many deep easter eggs and meanings, like a tree's roots dividing endless but still part of a grand, strong whole and I'll miss it forever!
Thanks to this series I got interested in these older Persona games. Played through Persona 1 and almost done with Innocent sin. I love these older games, flaws and all.
Bro you are a legend. These analysis have just made me want to go in more on the shin megami tensei franchise and see how many hidden messages that can be open from understanding what each layer of the games are based on
This series was the final push I needed, to get into the Persona series for real. Before I just lurked, watching videos about personas, characters, and gameplay, curious, but never sure if it is something I would enjoy playing. But after watching your deep dive into Persona 1. I was hooked and had to give it a try. I ended up buying Persona 5 royal, and absolutely loving it, now I'm slowly going through the PC port of P4G.
@@midnight-fox7456 well i hope this doesn't lead to you not playing these games. Games like p2 should definitely be a experience you should enjoy on your own
@@magicmanthegeez330 Don't worry, I definitely intend on one day playing through all of these games. But this is the internet, so I just have to accept that I'll have stuff spoiled, one way or another. For example, I had the final villains of Persona 3 and 4 spoiled, when watching a video about meaning of Velvet room in P5. There was no info that they'll be talking about story of P3/4, and no spoiler warning. They were just talking and then BOOM, important story info, out of nowhere. Major elements of the game, spoiled out of f*cking nowhere. But I still intend on playing these games.
@@midnight-fox7456 The Persona fanbase is very bad when it comes to spoilers, but thankfully the games remain fantastic, and there are plenty of smaller moments throughout the games that aren't casually talked about as often, so not *everything* is spoiled
Everytime I watch this I discover something new about this game. You make me love one of my favorite games even more with your analysis. Fantastic work.
Man,watching through your entire persona 1 analysis and part 1 of 2 makes me wish you did one on the Shin Megami Tensei games,especially 1 and 2 since they're almost never covered in depth.
This is the most mature Persona game out of all of them. Persona 1 feels like 7-9 grade, Persona 2 feels like college even though there’s high schoolers, Persona 3 feels like 12th grade, Persona 4 feels more like 10th maybe even 11th. Persona 5 I haven’t played so I can’t say. The overall themes and depth in this game are very mature and conscious. The characters transparency has such great quality and the aesthetic/atmosphere is so distinct. It gives such a real feel.
Well, goddamn. I literally watched your other Persona 2 videos last night, and was sad there weren't more. Guess I know how I'm spending my night! Thanks, man.
1:12:37 This song was absolutely perfect to end the vid on, what's it called? I assumed it was an alternate version of Change Your Way, but I'm having trouble finding it. EDIT: Nevermind, found it! It's the Persona 20th Anniversary version of it!
I will recommend this video to anyone interested in Persona 2 as it just amazingly explains all the welling inside emotion when I think of it, I love the game top to bottom.
Just wanted to say I've been waiting on this ever since the last one in the series came out, and it didn't disappoint. Hope SnicketySlice enjoyed making it as much as a whole bunch of people enjoyed watching it.
I just spent a great hour watching this. My Innocent Waiting has finally come to an end just to face another Eternal Punishment called waiting for the next Compendium episode.
Amazing video. Exactly what the best Persona game deserves ❤ The depth in Persona 2 as a whole is unlike anything in I've ever seen in a game. Maya is Jesus, wow.
The intro to the video is like the FE 6 and FE 7 dilemma, but they don't actually play out as prequel / sequel... just world building for the player to each other depending on the order chosen
One of the things I think is cool about Persona 2 is how the mindsets of the character differ between each game. In Innocent Sin, the cast is very reactive while in Eternal Punishment they're proactive. In IS, one of the earliest missions is to destroy school emblems, but it's a preventative measure- They aren't taking initiative by doing so. On the other hand, EP has Maya destroying a school emblem specifically so that she can pursue Tatsuya, it's a choice to move towards the future. This is probably the single biggest reason why the EP cast succeeded while the IS cast failed- The IS cast was content to be strung around by the riddles of their enemies but never made any effort to get ahead of them, while the EP cast was actively working to try to accomplish their goal.
That also works from the lens of IS focusing on a teenage cast, rebelling against a status quo that perpetuates their trauma with no true understanding or support to do so successfully. I have my criticisms of how EP handles some of the commentary of the first game but I think framing it around adults using their greater power to influence change for the sake of Tatsuya and the younger generation was not one of those mistakes.
At the same time the cast from IS produced the requirements to make Maya and Tatsuya defeat a threat so big that they can not do anything about it (the plan from Nyarl. was too perfect and it was simply too much for them to handle) However it’s not like they have not accomplished anything. In fact I consider all the events of IS a preparation. They gradually witness their sins, grow as people and face their weaknesses to eventually be ready to face the memories of their childhood. By doing they realize how horrible the world is and the darkness inside human hearts (represented by Nyarl.). Eventually they are enough strong as people to be able to counter Nyarl’s plan and sacrifice something they treasure to give a future to mankind. In my opinion the game prepared them to that choice.
seriously, after playing every main persona game for several hours, even after being emotionally devastated by the likes of persona 3 and it's incredible message, ending, and cast, being absolutely sucked into persona 5 as a whole, and loving innocent sin every single bit, i still believe that eternal punishment is my favorite persona game out of the entire series, the vibe is so unlike anything else i've seen come from persona or even smt as a whole, people can say all they want about whether or not they think it's "outdated" but honestly i think it holds up perfectly, it's only outdated in the sense of the hardware it's on and nothing else, it still looks amazing in some places like the final dungeon and if the resolution were higher it would be actually perfect, and personally, i found the gameplay to be really fun, with my only complaint being my preference of a proper fusion system over the card currency system in place in both p2 games, though it far from ruined anything. i could talk about how much i adore the story and it's ideas too, but then this comment would probably rival the length of this video lol thanks a ton for making these analysis videos, they're very well done and it's nice to see more love for what may be some of my favorite games *ever* at this point, if we ever get a modern day re-release of either of the p2 games in some form, then i will officially declare this the best timeline possible
I agree wholeheartedly. While the first persona is my personal favorite for the nostalgic and dreamlike vibes, in terms of story, Eternal Punishment is unmatched imo, especially after this video. I knew a lot about persona lore already before this series, but especially with the p2 videos, my mind is consistently blown with how much more Tadashi and the rest packed into this duology in regards to storytelling and symbolism and theming and paralleling real world stuff and AAGGHH. I hope he's still proud of what he did with these games because this is the most energy I've personally seen be put into a game story
@@burnt_ramen9757 yeah, I think since ppl start with 5 these days they somehow expect the rest of the series to be exactly the same. But even before that, I get that feeling from ppl who started with 3 or 4 and went backwards. Idk, I played 1&3 psp simultaneously and going between the 2 wasn't very jarring at all. Idk, I guess its an expectation thing, if you're intentionally going backwards in the series, then expect the older games to... Play like older games lol. Not all the bells and whistles of the newest title will be there. Though in the case of persona, a huge factor is also how much you enjoy the calendar system, which I personally won't miss if the new director ditches it lol. I like feeling more in control of the pace of the story. So many instances in 4&5 where I'm just like "LET ME PLAAAYY" but the game wants to take a week or 2 for cutscenes lol.
@@MagillanicaLouM I started with 4 and I went on to 3 then 5 and after all that I felt P2 was a breath of fresh air, I have always been good at getting into older stuff though
Wait, you mean you don't love everyone just calling P2 "the game with Hitler in it" ? That is a totally perfect and completely honest representation of it
I'm not sure if this was supposed to be a thing, but I think that it was important that the adults were the ones to save the day and finally stop evil. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that younger generations aren't capable of making change, but I think that both the younger and older generation are needed to actually get things done. Neither party could of done it without the other. Without the first game's deeds, even though they technically failed, it got the ball rolling for other people to pick it up and carry the torch, until it was finally over. It doesn't matter how many times the world wipes itself, someone will always be there to rise to the occasion. Even if humanity as a whole were to fall, there will always be a person prevail in the darkness of themselves. No matter the age, anyone can stand up and fight for humanity, it's not just a rebellious phase that only teenagers go through because they think that can fix the world. And just because you're older, doesn't mean you can't change, or have flaws. Nyalathotep always underestimates humanity, which is why he will always lose.
Some more details about Baofu. Coins are his weapon of choice because he was also a qi gong practitioner, and his Persona ability lets him harness that Chi and turn it into a viable throwing weapon. Also something about Zenigata as a cool reference. The backstory lore about the Tien Tao Lien is based on an actual Triad mafia and some historical events in Taiwan in the 80s. There's some obscure stuff that talked about unconstitutional enforcement, which Baofu references in the line "they're hunted in Taiwan for being 'impure'"
Another cool detail. His chinese name, Bao Fu, can be understood 2 ways. If read as ‘報復’ Bao4Fu4, it means revenge which fits his backstory perfectly. If read another way, ’包袱‘ Bao1Fu1 means baggage. Which also explains the baggage he carried with him all those years.
Lani is so sweet, glad to hear her voice again! She's actually the voice of Lucas from the Mother series as well, and I got a voice clip from her as well! She needs love and support!
its great listening to someone delve into esoteric religious and psychological themes of this series, the hard work you put into these videos really shows. already anticipating the next one!
I think that the Classical Personas, as you mentioned, are the best games story-wise of all. They are wholesome, very well linked to each other, it manages to settle an unnerving scenario and build solid personality into the characters. Nice job, it was truly a lesson what I just watched.
Why do the Persona creators all look like they just stepped off a film noir-parody film set? It really fits with the themes and moods of the games, it's just hilarious it's reflected down to the way the creators dress. Quite a contrast from the work-place images we get of say, Shigeru Miyamoto, or Hirinobu Sakagachi.
What an a absolutely incredible series, from start to (hopefully not) finish. Your in-depth explanations of Jung's work, as well as all the other parallels between mythology, religion, and psychology and Persona left me with a much greater appreciation for the series as a whole, even moreso than I did before.
SPOILER They be talking about how tragic makoto's fate is but forgot Tatsuya's kicked-in-the-balls bittersweet ending. I mean he's supposed to be forgotten but still
This is a very interesting reminder about why lots of people loved Persona. I think SMT fans loved these twists, I know I did. This also gives a stark contrast to what P4 and P5 are missing. Even if you did not get most of what this video goes over, in P1 and 2, you still "felt" the impact of all that mind jank. You don't have understand it all completely to enjoy and feel the underlying web of intrigue and philosophy throughout. There's character development using the persona, conversations, settings, they use a variety of tools to tell a story of character development. Not necessarily growth, but development. I think 3 4 and 5 lacks some of this web of character development. And seems to be hollowed out more and more the further we get away from 2. The games now are just challenged by the world. Having to overcome things and maybe?? grow. But they are not having a conversation with the world through their character development. And I think this conversation with the world is what SMT fans hold dear. The alignment system invites this conversation, and gives you at least the development of the alignment along the story and the development of your relating to it. Being able to dig a little deeper and come to new realizations is what SMT fans love I think. The gameplay, compendiums, fusions, equipment, spells, those are all cool. And we've seen games made that are built on just those things. But I think fans who have played the old games can really feel when the game has left out its philosophical core and detailed development. I think this is also why fans are excited and dreading V. I would just love for the entire staffs of Nocturne, P1n2, and Raidou to be thrown in the same building for a few years and see what game they come up with. I don't care what you call it, just make it feel like the early games did.
Nice, been waiting for this! Funny how just earlier today I remembered your channel and thought about checking out whether this video had already come out. Pretty good timing!
It's such a great and thoughtful analysis! Thank you very much!!! Come to think of it, Nyarlothotep said that he "cannot tolerate contradictions", which, in itself, seems a very Jungian idea, too: as "anti-individuation" archetype, Big Nya is opposed to Individuation... which, in itself, IS about accepting contradictions and coincidenting oppositions! He hates contradictions as much that he cannot even grasp the contradiction that he, in all his danger and badness, is still not alienated by the protagonists, but accepted by them instead. So, in that sense he really IS "cosmic idiocy" that wants things as simple as they can be, and then even simpler still. He is a part of us that "wants to keep things simple", tires of contradictions, is scared or annoyed by them... And, frankly, this is something we all can relate to sometimes and feel it as part of our "sinful" human nature. It also feeds into the motif of both Philemon and Big Nya meant to be transcended: the inherent paradox of the Individuation is that uniting contradictions does ALSO mean uniting the "contradiction of both having to unite the contradictions and the self-protective need of dismissing, devaluing, attacking them". It's kinda like having to keep the Balance between Balance and Imbalance, - because unilaterally calling contradictions "good" and escaping them "evil" will still place us back at the square one, in the dismissing of the complexities, in the tentacles of the cosmic idiocy once again! It's also an amazing thing that you point about Maia and Buddha - the fact that it's that MAIA (Illusion) somehow gave birth to the Buddha! The one who saw through all the illusions. Which is in itself one of contradictions like those Big Nya hates =)
Part of the main draw of EP is adults as the party members over teenagers, as you explained have their own completely different set of problems. Honestly I think this is what modern day persona needs now. We've had the teenagers in highschool 3 times now, it'd be nice to see the formula done with adults and how they see the world. Which is why I like the concept of Zenkichi/Wolf being a Phantom Thief in Persona 5 Scramble.
I completely agree, I'd love for them to ditch the High school setting as well, it's getting old now. An University setting would be a bit more interesting if they don't want to change the formula too much but I won't get my hopes up.
@@JPF222 Well, control of the series has changed hands again starting with Royal. Most of the people who worked on 3-5 are gone and working on Project Re:Fantasy. And the new people want to take the series in a "new direction" whatever that means so who knows what the future will hold.
Shame, you missed the perfect opportunity to have Ms. Minella say "It's whoopass time!" or "Grab your asses and run!" Overall, great breakdown! I was waiting for this to come out after finding your channel a few months ago!
I see people saying in comments below this and Muji Soft's videos that Ep is the best persona game, because EP without IS is like only one side of a coin, ending without a beginning. My opinion that both parts of persona 2 are making the story meaningful and complete. They are inseparable. I find themes of finding yourself and your meaning of life in IS more relatable to me, but I can't imagine EP without IS as IS without EP. Just like yin and yang. (Sorry for my poor English grammar)
@@kallum39 As far as I'm aware, they are not done hacking the script into the iso yet. You'd think they would by now, but what can you do. At least it's still being worked on.
Nothing hurt worse than when Baofu says “Sorry Miki...” if you get a game over shit was so fucked UP and the ending theme man you can’t even get me started with that and when Nanjo tries to give Kandori a chance at redemption, and to escape the cave he’s about to die in, but he stays and the story just continues on. Man this game really hit the feels
Decades later, after much rumination on these games and their messages, my mind sometimes wanders into a most existential of questions: WHO IS THE TIME COUNT???
My favorite game. Ulala's persona Asteria has maybe another way to show her development. The island Asteria became was the same one Leto gave birth to none other than Artemis and Apollo. So in a way she went from Callisto someone who was defined by her connection to Artemis to Asteria someone Apollo and Artemis couldn't have succeeded without
Prediction: In 5 years when Snickety gets to the Persona 5 analysis and it blows up because it's a P5 video, these videos will retroactively get the views they deserve
I'm sure you did your research on Monads thoroughly, and the context you discussed it in this video is absolutely correct, but I wanna touch on it a bit more. The word Monad originates from Ancient Greek Philosophy as an interpretation of the source of the universe. It could be seen as God in a certain interpretation, though its important to understand that the Monad was understood to be entirely separate and impartial to the material world. It did not interfere. This idea would later blend with Christianity, and become a branch of Christianity called Gnosticism. The doctrine taught was that the YHVH of the Hebrew Bible was a false god begotten from a celestial being called Sophia, an Archon, who was in of herself a part of the great overall Monad. This creates a chain of divinity, as Monad is the original and the whole, Sophia had a part of that, the false god (usually referred to as the Demiurge [or occasionally the god of philosophers by Ancient Greek Philosophers] had a part of that, and the creations of the demiurge, humans, have a part of that too. The central conceit of Gnosticism is to reject the physical world of the demiurge and embrace the world of Spirit, to embrace your own divine part (Gnosis literally means knowledge of spirit, hence Gnosticism). To this end, Jesus was sent as the male counterpart to Sophia to enlighten the world. This is actually a concept that has been embodied in SEVERAL Megami Tensei games, and seems to be the prevailing interpretation of the Monad by Atlus, as seen in things like the Axiom/Great Will. However, the interpretation Snickety offers comes a philosophy called Monadology. Basically, Leibniz, a philosopher and creator of the Leibniz notation used in calculus, had this idea of every object in the world having a particle called a Monad (derived from the Gnostic roots of Greek and early Christian Philosophers). Each particle is ENTIRELY unique, and cannot be duplicated, otherwise you'd have two of the same being. Now, the interesting thing about this is that each Monad inhabits its own unique space. Basically, every human you meet, every conversation you have, was predetermined and those humans aren't real. They are best described as projections emulating other monads, but they are as fake as NPCs in a game. Basically, its an extension of the existentialism that was initiated by people like Descartes. Jung has his own interpretations on how this related to the collective unconscious (the circle with a dot is 100% the icon of the self, you are correct on that) and even incorporates the figure of Sophia as his final stage of Anima. Its really interesting stuff that you don't hear about!
I think this video is a true testament to the quality of writing, character, and atmosphere that Satomi poured into the earlier Persona titles. It's really sad to think of how much they get overlooked by Atlus nowadays. While I do dream of a remake of the P2 Duology in the P5 engine, combining both games into one long story, I worry that the modern tone of the series would water down too much of what made it special. I couldn't imagine this game with Social Links. Either way, we just need to keep thinking positive~!! ^w^ #MayaBestGirl
just when U thought u knew persona here comes slice to jumble your brain haha jeez I never even looked into half of what this video explains and I already raved about how amazing this game was.
It is the 20th Anniversary concert performance of the credits song from P2EP, Change Your Way. Concert: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oykgxM817z8.html Original: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wONI34aquiU.html
