"Higher brand of Calvinism?" I wish that Phil had explained what he meant by that... I have always assumed that Calvinism is like pregnancy - either you are, or you aren't, there are no "degrees" of it...
Josh, Maybe, I dunno... It would have been instructive had he taken just a minute to define his terms. I do not believe that Calvin spoke of "double predestination" in his "Institutes," at least not in the sense that most people mean it today - that God sat in eternity past and determined that some people would go to heaven and some people would go to hell... What Calvin talks about is that, as a result of the fall, ALL men are now destined to go to hell, but God graciously chose certain people out of humanity to be the objects of His mercy, and He determined them to salvation from the beginning... Now, technically, that is still a "double predestination," but it is meant in a completely different sense than what is understood by many people today.
Rmans One16, Well, I've read a lot of A.W. Pink, and I've met Paul Washer once when he came to Dawsonville, GA, (he taught on Isaiah 6, it was great!) but I didn't know that there was a difference between the theology of these two men... Is there a video where Mr. Washer draws a distinction between himself and Pink's theology?
Lawrence Stanley Lawrence, if my memory is coreect, I listened to Phil Johnson's sermon called God's Sovereignty versus human responsibility. Phil stated in this context of my memory: We as Calvinist can win the debate, but seem to never lead our opponents to Christ Jesus in order to be saved! We can get to arrogant in our wisdom due to having a better grasp of God's Sovereignty. We should pay closer attention to our witnessing in our dialogs.
I’ve seen James wobble a bit when he debated Bart Erman. I’m not saying I am for Erman but he does tend to throw debtors off their game unless your Dan Wallace.
Pointing The Way By Your Servants. A beautiful afternoon in a nice autumn day, The city was buzzing with its busy way. Two men unknown to each other climbed the side walk; Their shoes tap on the concrete in an out tune cha, cha. They greet each other in a cordial way, both wearing suits and one of them goes first. “Hello, how do you do, Smith is my name”. The other man turns with a smile in his face, Joyful to hear the friendly embrace. Before he can pay back the greeting the other moved his hands, He extended his to get a shake, but a tract he got instead. “God bless you” said Smith with sincerity on his voice, “Christ the Lord is savior have you heard of his name”. “Thank you” said the other, who cordially introduced himself. “Good afternoon” said Muhammad along with giving his name. “I heard of the prophet praise be his name, But of the saving part I haven’t heard could you please explain”. “I heard he did miracles and Mary was his mother, And that he is listed as a very good Muslim”. Smith walks faster as he goes away, He thought that there was nothing to gain. This man is from the devil a long with his faith, “I’ll cut down the dialogue before I get drag as well”. The Muslim stunt by the man kept the tract with respect. He could not defile a prophet showing Jesus some respect. The radio sounded and confirmed Smith role, There is no interface dialog to win a soul. The perfect person to talk to is an atheist, a Witness or a Mormon, But the Muslim may attack me in an autumn afternoon. Interface dialogue is not compromise when is done like we were told. But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Compromise comes when you don’t believe what you claim to believe. No amount of talk would separate us from the Love of God. The secular looks from a far, thinking that this is his chance; He gets political points playing on our fear. The brain watching began in kinder garden with natural history; Making God an invention and his name dealers as funnies. Many of you were not affected and Christian you remain; Why you fears this others that at least want to engage. If you are not ready, when are you going to be? You can stand your ground and love you can preach. The radio guy behind the mike that wants persecution to avert, In the world you will have tribulations the son of man said. The Chinese, the Korean and also the middle east, The word continues in dialogue before they preach.
Hector Claudio : How can I cut this with paste , when all they say is ,Lord, or Lord it with grace .., as He answered, behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no deceit. For Women received their dead raised to life again, but he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it and it is not forgetful of a hearer and doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does...
It's called a job. He's a scholar, a teacher, and a debater along with many other things. He boldly preaches the word of God. What could possibly be wrong with that?
@@jacobchesney1558 Nothing, of course, but often immature people will attack the person when they know they can't attack his position. It's very disheartening, especially when people who call themselves "Christians" do it.
Ernesto Ybarra as a fellow Christian we support our brothers n sisters who stand up for the gospel from the beginners at faith till the elders in faith it’s called one spirit ,one faith in Christ Jesus we uplift Christ not man
But he's most persuasive and usually theologically correct in his attack on Islam and apostate pseudo-Christianity (like theistic-evolution and King James Onlyism).
+55 57 Charles Spurgeon summed up Calvinism by stating: "If anyone should ask me what I mean by a Calvinist, I should reply that he is one who says that salvation is of the Lord.” John 10:26 - But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. Belief is predicated on whether or not you are one of God’s sheep. Note that He doesn’t say “you are not of My sheep because you do not believe.” See also John 6:37-44, 65
Lawrence Stanley well rite now I'm watching a web pah called the good fight ministries and the pastor is doing a lecture on Calvinism and he points out some of there flaws..um as for you statement I dont get what it is your trying to say?
+55 57 Well, you were asking if "Calvinism" was Christian, and I attempted to answer it in shorthand. Essentially, there is no such thing as "freedom of the will" as Edwards put it. Have you read Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion? Don't make any assumptions about "Calvinism" until you have. I put "Calvinism" in quotes, because all that Calvin did was to write a book that summed up Biblical doctrine, outlining extensive scriptural proofs for every doctrine cited, so when one says "Calvinism" they are really talking about an outline of the Bible. The TULIP acronym wasn't his idea, it was something done by his students as a defense against the heresies of Arminianism. They needed a way to sum up Biblical doctrine, and it was a neat way of doing it.
I think what Phil means by higher brand of Calvinism is just the fact that Grace church(MacArthur and Phil for example) would emphasize man’s responsibility to believe as a twin truth to God’s sovereignty but James White does not really do that.
@@lexle6203 in his sermons he makes it very clear that God is sovereign and man is responsible. That just doesn’t come up in his debates or apologetic material because his launching point is his doctrine of God and how it applies to knowledge. So he’s not even emphasizing human responsibility and doesn’t have much of a reason to in those presentations. But when he exegeses texts that deal with mans responsibility, he covers it very thoroughly.
@@michaelking1091 Sure. I know that and he is a masterful exegete. But he does not use language or the points that MacArthur(and by extension Phil Johnson) would use in his sermons sometimes when he is preaching from texts that focus on the human side of salvation. The difference is very subtle and in essence non-existent because they would affirm the same truths. But the difference is there hence why Phil made that statement. You are welcome to give another speculation but this is mine on what Phil meant by a higher brand of Calvinism.
@@judson1623 uh no. I'm saying jg you're a calvinist which is why you don't think he lost because you're being bias. I on the other hand hate roman catholicism and still feel Horn got the best of him therefore my opinion isn't bias. Nice try tho
@@stevenirizarry9427 Let me repeat it again my dear friend, I'm not a calvinist. Ur still not a calvinist, therefore u feel Trent won. That's what happens when we go by your own logic, not mine!!!
Let me try to explain how salvation works in a way you have probably never heard before. This is true. "No man can come unless the Father draws him." The Bible has taught us that The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit are the one true God. Each having a different role with the human race. Yet one God. The Fathers teaches everyone that God exists. Through the creation! Romans1: 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. NO ONE HAS AN EXCUSE. The Father is not the saviour, that is the role of the Son, The Messiah, The Lord Jesus, The Christ! They are taught by the Father as this verse shows: and the Father sends them that believe that God exists to the Son. It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. John 6:45 So when Jesus said that: “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. John 6:44 It is simple saying that the Father makes all men aware that God exists and sends those who respond to Jesus. BUT! not all men will respond even though they have no excuse. They know God exists but they made their choice. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools Romans 1:21-22 Paul verifies this to Timothy: This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. 1 Timothy 2 : 3-6 The Holy Spirit comes into play in a special way only once a person whom the Father sends to the Son for salvation. Those who willingly desire to be right with God. Those who Repent and are Baptized. JESUS John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. You will probably benefit from something I wrote about Predestination. Predestination example 1: Its kind of like this. A man’s wife is finally pregnant and the couple are over joyed. I hope it is a boy the man said and I hope he will be interested in becoming an electrician like me. I also hope he goes into the trade and if he does, I plan for him to take over the family business some day! But I know that these plans that I have made for him, before one of his days of life begin will be entirely up to my son. I cannot force him, I cannot put a gun to his head, I can only encourage and guide him and hope. In other word’s the man has predestined a plan for his son, He has chosen a plan for his son. He has elected to give all this to his son if he so desires it! Outcome 1 The baby is born and it is a boy. He is interested in his fathers work and goes to electrical trade school, but drops out and becomes a lawyer instead. Outcome 2 He drops out of school becomes a bum, a drunk or a murderer etc. Outcome 3 The son follows his fathers predestinated plan, through trade school and takes over his father’s business. The fathers predestined plans for his son will happen, or will not happen, according to the choices the son makes. Its the same with mankind. There is a master plan given to every human being to know God, reach salvation and eternity in Heaven. But to follow or reject the plan is the choice given to every individual. This is the "Good News Gospel" that the Angels proclaimed when the Messiah was born. Satan has attacked that message from the beginning, twisting it into what is now known as Calvinism or the doctrine of election. Predestination example 2: Grandma saves and saves to buy her granddaughter a plane ticket to France. She has been saving for many years and the day finally arrived and she gave her granddaughter her special gift. The granddaughter goes to the airport and asks the attendant which plane to get on. The attendant says, what is your destination on your ticket? He reads the ticket which says “Destination France.” He also said that flight 446 is a modern jet that was especially built and destined by the airline to fly exclusively to France for its entire service life. So, this aircraft has been predestined to fly to a predestined location, France. The girl gets on the plane and is now destined to travel to France on the predestined plane, that has been predestined by its designers, to reach its predestined, destination! This girl will arrive at her predestined trip that her grandmother predestined years before, as long as she goes to the airport, gets on the right plane and stays on the plane! All this took place by the choices the granddaughter made. Predestination example 3: "The man on an island." Imagine a man has been taken to a desolate island with everything he needs to survive and given only a Bible to occupy his time. This man has no preconceived idea about religion so everything he will learn over the next 10 years he will get directly from the Bible and Gods leading. The man accepts God’s plan of salvation and what he has learned from the Bible. He repents and is born again. The Holy Spirit is now counselling the man from the inside. He studies intensely for the 10 years growing in his faith and walking closer and closer with God daily. After 10 years he comes back to the mainland world and decides he needs to fellowship with other Christians as the Bible says he should. The man approaches a number of different churches and looks through the windows from the outside and says to himself “What are they doing in there what are they saying about God? How do you think this man will compare what he knows to be true, from what he sees going on in the mainline churches today? Do you think he will find what the mainline denominations are teaching will be in harmony to what this true follower of Jesus Christ has learned? You know it won’t be! It then occurred to me that I am that man. I became a Christian in the winter of 1980 and didn’t go to any church for 10 years. I studied on my own directly from the Bible. I did go to some Bible studies, but basically learned directly by Gods leading. TRUTH IN LOVE
I agree with most of what you’ve written, except that you added works to salvation. Repent/believe are intertwined from our side, but nowhere in the word must a gentile be baptized in water for salvation (I’m presuming you mean baptism in water). Paul describes believers being baptized by the Holy Spirit. Not water. Salvation is 100% based on what Jesus did, nothing else. Get baptized afterwards for sure as a public declaration but the truth is, you come up wet already saved. Time and time and time again the Word tells us Grace is a free gift. Given without expectation of return. Since you like to give long stories I have one too lol: A man comes to his son and says son I spent my last money to buy that bike you’ve always wanted and I’d like to give it to you. The son is overjoyed, tears in his eyes and can’t wait to go ride and show all his friends and accepts the gift.(This is where God stops) Then the dad says but I want you to mow the grass once a month. (And this is where every other philosophy or doctrine about salvation starts ie calvinism/works/behavior/etc) I was stuck in works, then Calvinism and by Gods amazing love for me, He led me out into a place where I’ve realized that the true freedom that Jesus promised you will find, is when we simply believe what He promised us. God bless
@@richardmunro7207 Wow Richard that was so clear and right on. I appreciate your words and truth. I absolutely don't believe works has any benefit in the forgiveness of sins. What could anyone do to pay for a single sin? I look at it this way in my personal case. I do as many good works ( meaning trying to follow Gods leading in service, to be as Paul, a fellow worker in the field) as I have energy to do. My only goal is to win souls and to warn others of false teachers and false doctrines. Why do I do it? My honest answer is that I do it in appreciation of what God has done for me and I know that this pleases Him. Not for rewards, Not for anything, but just appreciation and thankfulness. God Bless you Richard for also bringing light onto this site. Go to as many site as you can. I find there are people who read our words and have woken up and have been helped. TRUTH IN LOVE
Rodrick Evans First, the bible says that you can lose your salvation.... Heb 3: 6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. 7 ¶ Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12 ¶ Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; Heb 6: 1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 ¶ For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Heb 10: 26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? That fact alone disproves Calvinism. I’ll allow you to respond before I go to another point. God bless.
Genalation Would like to discuss the golden chain? Let me ask you something. Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, 👉🏻waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.👈🏻 Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be 👉🏻conformed to the image of his Son👈🏻, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Do you believe that the two things I highlighted are speaking of the same event which is this?.... Phi 3;20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall 👉🏻change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, 👈🏻according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. God bless.
Genalation I’ll ask a few more questions so that you can respond to them all at once. Acts 26:4 ¶ My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews; 5 Which 👉🏻knew me from the beginning, 👈🏻if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. Rom 8:29 For whom he 👉🏻did foreknow, 👈🏻he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Rom 11:1 ¶ I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he 👉🏻foreknew. 👈🏻Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Those highlighted areas are all from the same Greek word “proginosko”. It means to know beforehand/To know from before. God knew Israel from beforehand. He’s been their God and they have been His people though they’ve been rebellious. In Rom 8, it’s speaking of those who loved God. All things worked together for good for them. Men like Abraham and David. Rom 8 leading up to “the golden chain” is spoken in the first person plural with present tense verbs. Midway Rom 8:28, Paul switches to third person plural with past tense verbs. Would you agree that Paul is speaking of those who loved God in the past whom God knew are also predestined to take part of the resurrection where we will all be conformed to the same body as Jesus? Heb 11:39 ¶ And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that 👉🏻they without us should not be made perfect.👈🏻 Would you agree that being the firstborn with regards to Jesus, that it’s always speaking of His resurrection?.... Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that👉🏻 he might be the firstborn among many brethren.👈🏻 Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. So what do you make of the word “also” if these two passages are both speaking of the same event?..... Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he 👉🏻also 👈🏻did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, 👉🏻that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.👈🏻 And what do you make of the reason given? It’s like Paul is saying that we’re going to take part of the adoption which is the redemption of our body. Those who loved God in the past whom He knew are also destined to take part of the same event so that Jesus will not only be the firstborn among us, but those of the past as well who loved God so that there will be many brethren. Does that seem to make more sense than Paul suddenly going off topic into some new theology that has never been discussed before and with no real explanation? God bless
The whole time he was talking about debating, I was thinking "I think Michael Brown handled James White really well when they debated. And then at the end... lol. I know Phil hates Michael Brown, but I love him to death. So I was pleased that was at least acknowledged.
Hate was a strong word. I was being a little facetious. But he more than disagrees with Michael Brown. He has expressed at times that he thought Michael and his views are dangerous. I disagree with him. But he's allowed to feel that way.
@@eskimo289 I agree with Johnson's views about Dr. Michael Brown, because the latter has defended some of the most egregious frauds such as Heidi Baker, Bill Johnson, John and Carol Arnott, etc.
Yeah, it seems to me both of these men are really simple-minded and ignorant. I watched the debate between White and Wright and it was far from a "victory" (and no, I don't buy everything Wright says, but he is a brilliant man and certainly not a heretic). Who get's to call out who won and lost in a debate anyways?
James White was the person who led me to become a reformed christian, im very thankful for his work but lately he has made many mistakes like associate with heretics like Michael Brown. I wish he would repent and go back to the way he was before
Calvinism: another Gospel, another Jesus & another spirit. Calvinists just cannot get the distinctions between Jews and Gentiles, individuals and nations. It’s not Gods choosing that makes you unsure if you’re elect, it’s your pride. I think Paul was talking about a doctrine just like this when he said people have come in and troubled the congregation and caused them to doubt. And I might add, if anyone preaches any other Gospel than what we first delivered to you (repeated again) let them be accursed. Jesus said when He is lifted up that He will draw ALL men unto Himself. Jesus said Jerusalem Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you; how I longed to gather you like a hen gathers her chicks “BUT YOU WERE NOT WILLING”. Not but I didn’t choose you, but you were not willing. Anyone with common sense reading this & truly trusts what Christ said then please avoid Calvinism, there is no freedom and peace there. If you believe the Gospel, God (not Calvin or James white) yes God promises that if you believe in Jesus Christ you will be given eternal life and be sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, and if you believe, then you are elect and predestined and you are chosen. Remember this: many are called but few are chosen. In other words, eternal life through Jesus is available to all but only few will believe. Call me an easy believer but the problem is Jesus Himself made it so easy and I think that’s why only few will find it. Believe (trust) Jesus today and you will be saved, no matter who you are.
sir you need to repent , you are misrepresenting the other side . It is a sin to lie . To attack calvinist in the way you just did makes a person wounder what kind of a christian are you? How dare you say we preach another gospel? I would sudgest you keep silence ,your attacks are not against us they are against God.
Now Phil, don't you know James mingles with the dangerous Michael Brown? Now cmon, where's your respect for questionable associations? So disappointing and so inconsistent...
Actually, Phil Johnson is a strong critic of Michael Brown, and he also criticised James White's orthodoxy checklist in defence of Michael Brown. Go and watch Johnson's interview with Chris Rosebrough (Fighting for the Faith) on this. He acknowledges White as a friend, but clearly does not agree with him on Brown. And in fairness, White is also a critic of Brown.
3:37 Any time someone tells you to avoid another person's theological opinions/biblical arguments because they're "dangerous," it simply means the other person's theology is probably more consistent with scripture and they're scared that you'll change your beliefs. I don't like James White because he's condescending and "has a big head" while trying to act like he's being such a pious christian. He has tried to defame Dale Tuggy and told people avoid Tuggy's work. It won't work forever though. Tons of people are still finding Biblical Unitarian media around the internet and ditching mainstream theology because of how Biblical Unitarianism harmonizes the scripture. Also, James White is not always careful with his words, as you say. On twitter he said: "One being of God identified as Yahweh. The Father is identified as Yahweh. The Son is identified as Yahweh. The Spirit is the Spirit of Yahweh. One being, three distinct persons." (Jan 11, replying to @man_of_renown @RF_Pats_Fan) The last line does not follow the first four lines at all. Where did "persons" come from in the first four lines? He has either two beings of God (Father & Son) and a spirit of those two beings or he has one being of God (Father = Son) and the spirit of that one being.
@@matthiasbrandt1252 You shouldn't act like contradictions are bad if you believe mainstream Christian doctrines, since they are full of contradictions. Anyway, you might think that way now, but after a bit of Bible study and just a little look into the truth of early Christian history, you'll probably change your mind. There are a bunch of people who probably believed exactly like you do now, but after really studying the Bible, they had to leave mainstream doctrines behind for the truth. If you want to hear some examples, go listen to some UCA Podcast episodes. There's a lot of people who actually were trying to prove trinitarianism that ended up finding it unbiblical. Even people like Fred Sanders admits that it's not in the Bible. He literally told people that in order to "see the trinity in the Bible" they had to assume that everyone in the new testament was so understanding of the trinity that no one talked about it... sorry but that's absurd. Paul had to deal with many problems in the congregations he wrote to, and yet the topic of the trinity never came up. Also, Jews are very strict monotheists, yet in Hebrews when they write about the basic beliefs of Christianity, nothing is mentioned about dual natures or triune godhead. The only reasons why mainstream Christian doctrines have lasted till today is because computers and the internet didn't exist in 50 AD, and the mainstream churches killed anyone who dissented for about 1300 years. *edit* Also, you said true Christianity always believed in a triune god. Sorry, but there's no historical evidence to back that claim. Even after those Greek philosophy filled people tried to iron out the nature of God in the 4th century, all they did was cause more division and arguments. If uneducated people were able to hear the gospel and understand it quickly back in the time of the apostles, then why is it that hundreds of educated people couldn't agree on it?
James White lost to Trent Horn on "Can a Christian lose their Salvation" and he lost to Greg Stafford on "Jesus- God or a god?" only by a slight margin, but still an "L"
THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH !!! who read them? Dr. white can and does read them, can read and speak the Greek and old writings. Most Muslims can not read their own koran.
James White may be a skilled debater but does that mean that he teaches the truth? I challenged him to a debate on the trinity but he was reluctant to do so as he wanted to know what and how I was going to challenge him. However I told him it is the element of surprise that would determine who would be teaching the truth James White tries to get your information so that he can ponder over it and then put up a challenge. It is like a defendant giving away his evidence to the prosecution before the trial. This is why he wins debates. I told him I can destroy the trinity with hard facts that are irrefutable and as I didnt want to give him my evidence he declined the challange. Have to say James White is Gutless
James Marquis do you think I'm joking James? What I said is true whether you like it or not. James White was gutless to take me on. As I said I can prove the trinity a lie with irrefutable evidence. I have studied the bible extensively for 35 years and have learned hebrew and greek language. Also have listened and studied all the top scholars of the world. So don't for one minute think I'm not able to make a challenge.
So it's ok for you to know _his_ arguments, but because he wanted to know _yours_ you call him "gutless." Wow...no surprise he chose not to waste anytime with you. Not to mention, if you have "hard facts that are irrefutable" then you shouldn't be worried about it.
Falcon how can I know his arguments on my evidence? Everybody knows what trinitarians believe and where they get their information from. I challenged James White for a proper debate infront of an audience based on my evidence and I wanted to hear his challenge on that evidence at the time of the debate. It is well known throughout the world that when a person who has been charged by the Police and gives his evidence to prove that he has not commited the crime, the Police will still twist and use that evidence against him to get a conviction at all cost whether it is the truth or not. The police will even plant evidence to undermine the evidence given to them by the accused. James White, is just like the police and he will allways believe in the trinity whether the truth stares him in the face or not, but in a court of law when the defendant "only" reveals his evidence of innocence at the time of the trial it is the element of surprise that will move a jury to acquit rather than find guilty despite the Crown having revealed all their evidence before trial. James White doesn't care about the truth but only cares his reputation as a trinitarian debater. It is his source of income. What would it mean for him and his reputation as a trinitarian debater if he was faced with cold hard facts that the trinity is a lie in front of an audience? When I confronted James with these facts as mentioned above, he was very reluctant to take me on as he does not like the element of surprise infront of an audience. If the shoe was on the other foot I would have accepted any challenge but the reality is this, are we willing to humble ourselves when we are face with cold hard facts or are we determined to get a conviction at all cost to save face and reputation.
Oh brother...he's had plenty of interaction with people who deny the Trinity over many years, so I doubt you have any secret information that would surprise him. But by all means, continue to talk big. We're all so impressed, I'm sure. I can tell you're more interested in winning a debate than truth. Not going to waste anymore time listening to your bluster.
Falcon do you think im joking? Have you ever questioned me about my level of knowledge? Do you know how many people I have turned away from following the trinity allready? Do "you" want to debate me on the trinity in front of a large audience or are you as gutless as James White? When I say I have got irrefutable evidence I sincerely mean it. Furthermore I never seek my own advantage but speak truth and whoever wants to hear it, it is ultimately their decision to accept it or not. But the evidence is beyond doubt: " the trinity is a lie" and the true and living God will hold people into account with great severity to those who follow a man made doctrine? Your blood is upon your own head, Lehitra'ot
