Wouldn't you have to establish some keys at either end of the straight edge span that are the height you want? These are relative to each other, so if you don't have the height at the ends supporting the edge it will through off your base line. Also, wouldn't a high key in the middle, or worse, a few high keys, cause a problem as it would lift the edge in the center area and you could have a rocking effect. I do a lot of mechanical work, and while this seems effective, I know if my original measurement is off, everything related to it would be off.
I have been a Piano Technician for 50 years, this is the WORST example of key leveling I have seen thus far(I haven't looked at many others). As one person asked/suggested you need to establish a key height, preferably on the ends, block those keys at the established height. Using a 48" straight edge(aluminum builders levels work well)the 2 end keys that are supported will support its weight, then using the paper punchings level the rest of the keys to the same height. If any of the keys are too high & there are no paper punchings under them, sand a little off the bottom of the key, keeping it flat, only from the middle where it fits over the balance rail. Repeat this procedure for the sharps/black keys AFTER measuring the height of the sharp above the wood of the key, most are 1/2" some are 7/16" , adjust your measurements accordingly. After leveling set dip, (3/8" on most pianos)on all C's & C#'s by measuring each, then remove action on vertical/upright pianos use the 48" level to "gangset" dip on keys between those you have set.
Exactly right. I've been a piano tech for more than twenty years and the method used in this video is not an accurate way to level. Most if not all pianos in need of regulation are unlevel in the middle two or three octaves (lower in height due to crushed felt punchings) and are lower than the end octaves in key height so this method could easily lead to crooked (perhaps only subtly) key height. Blocking up A0 and C88 to manufactures recommended height and using a level is much more accurate.
@@retroradio2277 I have a well used piano and a few keys are pretty low and most are not level with it's neighbors. Would replacing all the felt punchings get the keys closer to level? Or would I have to go in with the paper punchings anyways?
Hi there. Another question for you. I am trying to learn to regulate a grand piano action model a la PTG exam and the model I have didn't come with key height or dip specifications. Do you have any tips for how to determine the best key height and dip in an instance like this?
Basically the best thing to do is to do some trial and error to find what levels work best for the action. You would start with the standard key dip which would be 3/8". Your key height will somewhat be determined by the amount of dip. You want to make sure that there is some room between the top of the key and the bottom of the fallboard.
Thanks for you knowledge sharing! I assume that there are different parameters exist for all kind of brand, so how to tell and determine which key level is the best for the one that we work on?
How would you know the "proper height" of the keys in a badly unleveled piano? I just got an old piano, and the felts were all rotten or eaten by moths, and I had to change them, and they're in terrible shape. My first instinct is to take the highest key and use that as a base, but I don't want to start off the wrong foot
Basically you want to be sure that the keys aren't too high so there is no clearance below the fallboard. Another good rule to go by is that the fronts should look fairly square above the keyslip. The most important thing though is to put the key height at a place that the piano plays the best at. You'll want to start with just a couple of keys experimenting to find the best key height.
@@howardpianoind thanks. Yeah, my issue us that there's one key way above the others without any paper punches, just the felt. Maybe I need to iron out that one particular felt punching
Go to a piano store and measure the front height of a white key at rest then depress that key and measure the dip compared to an adjacent white key. Same for the black keys.
This is such a great video! Such precision work. I am upset at how I have had my grand piano Yamaha GB1K regulated by the technician here in India. After being at Oberlin College for 5 years with great pianos, this is very upsetting. What I also feel wrong is the hight of the black keys on my piano are slightly lower than I have seen. Is there a standard height they should be at? What I mean, is that usually I see a little below the upper part of the black keys (that angle that appears once the round section ends) while in mine it is about a millimetre lower. Should that be standard? I do notice having problems, especially playing chromatic scales, or the thirds etude of Chopin. Thank you!
Thank you. So 1/2" above the white keys. You say it can vary? What would be the advantage of having it different? Wouldn't this be a problem for pianists?
Should the keys be pressing upwards into the nameboard felt? In otherwords, how much pressure should the nameboard be applying to the keytops once re-installed? One might set all of the key tops too high if going through this process because it is done with the nameboard removed.
There actually should be some space between the top of the key and the bottom of the nameboard felt. The key should have some space to be able to lift up before it hits the felt. There isn't an exact amount, just to be sure there is some space.
I need to lower the flats/sharps on a Baldwin upright. All Baldwins I've seen have very high black keys. Is this do-able by removing felt spacers or will I need to plane wood?
You can lower the sharps by adjusting the paper punchings. If there isn't enough paper or cardboard punchings to make the adjustment that is needed, you would need to go with thinner felt punchings for those keys.
I have a question: I'm looking at buying a used baby grand that is fairly new and in good condition. However, about ten keys in the very highest register need to be regulated. They are MUCH more uneven than the keys you showed in this video, and very obvious to the naked eye. I tested them, and they really did not seem to inhibit my playing or the action, so the only reason I would get them regulated right now would be for cosmetic value. Do you have any idea how much this would cost? I have no idea. Would it be $50, $500, or $5,000? I need some help! Thanks!
This should be a fairly simple adjustment if it is just a key height issue. Even if it is being caused by something else, a qualified technician should be able to correct the problem easily. I can't really say this for certain though without knowing what the cause of it is. You may want to consider having a technician inspect it before you buy it if you want to be sure that it isn't something that could be very costly.
howardpianoind well, a technician did look at it and said that it was mechanically sound. It's in a good home, it has been taken care of and tuned, and was bought new seven years ago. So I don't think it would be anything too serious, but I will try to get an estimate of it from a local tech. Thank you so much! The imput really helps
Question for you - in the video there is a tall screw that juts up between two of the piano keys near the middle of the keyboard. Two of the keys are cut to allow for this screw. What is this screw for? I've been trying to figure this out because I am working on a similar piano for practice. Thanks!
Hi Lawrence, I’m glad you’re finding our videos to be helpful. The screw is for holding up a rail that sits above the keys. There is usually a nut below the rail and a nut above the rail to secure it. The lower nut can be adjusted to adjust the height of the rail.
What might prevent a key from being able to be taken out in the first place? I can lift up the front part of the key, but in the back it seems that it's connected somewhere that I don't want to force...
For a grand or baby grand piano, the action has to be removed from the key frame in order to take the keys out. We do have a different video on removing the action stack: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AHBIxx1sCJI.html
@@howardpianoind Got it - thank you so much for your help! Normally I would call someone to come to my home, but with the pandemic it's not practical at the moment. Your videos have been invaluable. Thank you so much!
You're welcome. I was only half joking. So I replaced the height and dip felts and it didn't take less work and it did still require height fine tuning after. But the evenness of the height, dip, squaring and spacing, and action and aftertouch feel was greatly improved.
If you replace all your balance rail punchings with new ones that are all the same, would all your keys be level with each other when not pressed? Most of the punchings on my piano are either worn out or missing all together.
Probably not, unless your keys were perfectly level when you started which is unlikely and also if the old punchings weren’t compressed at all. Even then it’s not likely that the keys would be level.
I assume this is a stand up piano and not a grand because you can't take the keys out of a grand unless you remove the top part of the action which contains the hammers?
Yes, this demonstration is on a vertical piano. It is more difficult on a grand piano because of the fact that the keys can't be removed without taking the action stack off.
@@howardpianoindFurther, it appears the keys on a grand piano won't rest normally unless the action is assembled! This would imply that one cannot simply remove a key, add a punching, and check its level unless the action is put back together. At least, this is how my Yamaha CP-80 behaves. It needs the weight of the action to see where the key will rest. I came here to see if anyone mentioned this, because I'm getting ready to level these keys, and surely there has to be some tricks to save time, right? I can see why Yamaha uses a computer with laser nowadays.
I have a problem with sticky black keys. When I press a black key the front of the black key gets stuck to the white key and therefor isn't able to come back up. Any idea how I can fix this problem?
Were the keytops replaced at some point on this piano? If there is contact between the black and white keys the solution is to sand the back of the white tops keys in the notch where the front and tail of the white key meet with sand paper ( aorund 100 grit would do) until there is clearance for the front of the black key.
I just replaced all the back felt and balance punching, now every key is wonky. what would be the best height to set them at? just use the tallest one?
By wonky, I assume you mean that they aren't all level. What you'll want to do is to determine which height works the best for the regulation adjustments to work well on your piano. I always start with a few keys in the middle and try to find which height is the best and then level the rest of the keys to that height. You'll want to watch our other videos on regulation to get a big picture of how to do this.
Is there any reason not to replace all the pads? It almost seems as though that would be easier, and ensure everything's perfectly level They're cheap, and very easy to switch out, from what I see here
It is best to replace all of the felts at once, but this won’t guarantee that the keys will be level. There will be very small discrepancies in the thickness of the felts.
