Picking an Ultrasound/DMS Program: Bachelors vs. Associates vs Certification

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Hi everyone, one question I commonly get is how to pick between ultrasound programs.
Which one is better? Bachelors vs Associates vs Certification???
Are there more benefits in getting more of a higher education in Diagnostic Medical Sonography? Is the pay different?
What do you get coming out of these programs? What is the most important?
Here I answer all those questions!
1:27 -- What kind of degree or certification I received after MY program
1:57 -- SPI board exam completion
2:53 -- What you will receive after completing your program & board exam?
3:44 -- THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WHEN LOOKING FOR AN ULTRASOUND PROGRAM!
4:48 -- My honest advice... don't be stupid
7:01 -- Pay difference?
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TUNING IT. I HOPE YOU FIND THIS VIDEO HELPFUL
If you have any questions feel free to message me on...
--- Instagram- @kristydms ----
Give me a follow for any daily updates and posts!

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26 май 2020

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Комментарии : 403

@yoh_ii 3 года назад

The one thing that *does* matter tho, is making sure that the program you've chosen will actually *allow* you to sit for the registration exam.

@erikaflores2566 Год назад

As a college dropout (mental health reasons), first time mom, and no set career path, your video was so encouraging! It really put things into perspective on whether I needed to actually go back and get a degree or just do the certification path. I’m understanding that it isn’t going to be easy but it is accomplishable. Thank you!

@michaelu2562 Год назад

im going through depression, always tired, no energy to focus taking organic chem 2 rn and i'm about to drop the damn class and just pursue this, idk your comment caught my attention, hope you're better now!

@ELMKTF 10 месяцев назад

I’m in the same position! Now that I have my baby I gotta get my life together and finally graduate with something in college. I wanna be financially stable for the two of us. The only thing is my commute to the program is gonna be crazy 🫤

@yoanachavezdesoto6269 2 года назад

Thanks so much for your videos! They have helped so much and I love how you keep it real for us girl.

@deysisalazar5485 3 года назад

Thank you so much! All your videos have been super informational and I love how REAL you are! I’m excited to start my journey you definitely have inspired me 😊

@crystalrodriguez4600 3 года назад

Best video hands down! I have been so confused as to what program I should sign up for. THANK YOUUUUUU

@jas2beinspired146 3 года назад

Thank you so much! Literally helped me not waste anymore time researching/ scrolling all over the internet 😂 for this topic!

@tooglamtam431 2 года назад

Omg thank you so much!! I’ve been losing my mind trying to find a bachelors that was in my budget!! I’m def going to go this route and if I feel I want to further my education I’ll think about that later. Thank you so much💕

@Bostongreenm3. 2 года назад

I’m so glad i came across this video… just what i was looking for! I want to leave ophthalmology and move on to become a RDMS, and my first option was UMBC but the cost was about $22k… then i did more research and realized that I didn’t have to spend that much to become a RDMS. Montgomery college became my first option. This video is very informative! Keep up the good work.

@tiabryce4973 2 года назад

Clear speaking and no rambling. Love it subscribed

@ballmonokuma9484 Год назад

Hello! Thank you for the advice at 4:48. After a year in college, I think this is the direction I'd like to take. So to hear that I don't exactly need the bachelor's is very reassuring, I'll be sure to keep researching!

@kco22 2 года назад

Thank you for sharing! Your information relieved a lot of stress on me and I feel encouraged to keep seeking out this field as I’m just beginning to contemplate on sonography school and where to begin! Thank you again! Have a lovely day. :)

@KristyDMS 2 года назад

I'm so glad! good luck!

@caydiemustafa4731 4 года назад

Your videos have really helped me pick what to do in terms of college... so thanks

@gracesamaha5386 3 года назад

This is the think I’m confused about. Do I go to one year of college and then enter a program?

@caydiemustafa4731 3 года назад

@@gracesamaha5386 I'm just going straight into a program. Because it IS college where I live i just googled a program and it came up

@DANTESOUNDS 4 года назад

Thank you so much for making this! My GF & I have had much smoother sailing because of your videos. Don't stop!

@lolgeselle 3 года назад

Kristy is amazing!! She has so much knowledge and is a great inspiration! 🥰🤍

@ashiebriggs5662 Год назад

You're so helpful.. I'm 38 now and want to do a sonography program..and watching you really encourage me to do it

@rositatolentino75 3 года назад

Thank you for explaining everything, but also getting to the point! ^^ your video was so helpful thanks:3

@brianna7289 3 года назад

Thank you for this video, it is so helpful! This is a big question of mine looking into sonography

@aidasija3982 4 года назад

Kristy I love your videos!! Can’t wait to start my program and get to where you are !! Rooting for you xo 💗

@KristyDMS 4 года назад

You’re the sweetest !good luck

@Thatsher.Shantelle 3 года назад

Thanks for putting me on to game girl! I just applied to my ultrasound program cant wait!

@miraclesR4Eva 2 года назад

im so happy that there's a video that compares all 3. I'm sitting here wondering which one should I get. Thank You Kristy the savior lol

@jasmineking145 4 года назад

I’m attending Montgomery College too! I’m so excited to be a raptor again 🤗 (went to MC years ago but left due to not knowing what to do with my life). So happy to have someone to relate to on this 💕 keep making more vids! You’re an inspiration to us all 😊.

@KamilaDalmate 2 года назад

Montgomery college has a certificate program as well?? I’ve been debating how to get it done because I need to work full time

@TaniWeinstein 4 года назад

I just got accepted to my #1 sonography program 2 days ago, and I am so excited, but also so nervous! Your videos are so helpful to me and I am really studying up so I know more of what o expect. THANK YOU!

@lolgeselle 3 года назад

Congrats Tani!💖

@wendycovarrubias5923 3 года назад

any tips???

@dianaz9262 3 года назад

Hi, I was wondering how much this program cost you? I’m really stressed over the price of the program I’m looking into

@shannonp4037 Год назад

@@dianaz9262 What did you find? My daughter is a HS senior now and looking at programs, they are $+ thousand per year for the bachelors program.

@Errsvydiibc 4 года назад

It’s so real a lot of students with bachelor’s right now are even unemployed.

@lolgeselle 3 года назад

It’s true, this will happen with any degree and any field. Managers are being laid off. Executive chefs being let go. Hospital workers being furloughed. It’s a sad time. 😔

@Chromosome999 3 месяца назад

Your videos are so good really the most helpful and informative I found on YT thank you so much ❤

@katrina7636 Год назад

I literally love you this video calmed down my nerves down sooooo much

@ashrenea93 2 года назад

Best video Iv watched about sonograms and Iv been watching a lot

@Sara_-et1gt 4 года назад

Thank you so much.I'm forty years old stay at home mom.Before all these,I I worked as teacher at high school about fifteen years.I'm looking for something I want to learn and then start my new career in US.Your video really gave me some ideas.

@lolgeselle 3 года назад

You’re an inspiration for others! ❤️

@perezgiselle 4 года назад

Thankyou so much for your videos. I’m really researching for a new career and want to pick the best for me. 🤩✨

@genevith7868 4 года назад

I’m so glad I found your video I’m really struggling on what I want to do for a career. I think I’m not believing in myself but this career is what I’m more interested than anything else. I hope to watch more of your videos to learn more about it thank you for sharing

@KristyDMS 3 года назад

you got this!!! work hard now to get where you want! good luck to you!

@madeleinelyann9939 2 года назад

I'm in the same boat! You got this!

@em-im1jt 4 года назад

Thank you! you've inspired me so much

@adrianatoledo2170 4 года назад

Thank for making this video💗

@Pelviccore 4 года назад

I love this so much!!!

@RachelSBell 3 года назад

Your videos are amazing and I am now pursing Sonography!!!

@chrisswitzer3541 2 года назад

Just a heads up, bring accredited does not matter especially if you already have a Bachelors in something else. I have a business degree. Per the ardms, you can sit for the exams immediately after completing any program (accredited or not). Most main hospitals do not care ie Kaiser, UCSF ect. All they care about is the ARDMS. If you don't have a bachelors then you need 1yr to sit for those exams. In that case, I'd recommend going to an accredited school. Finding a job without the ardms is very hard. This is related to Califonia.

@kaitlynfrichtel5603 Год назад

What path did you take since you originally had a business degree? Could you take the certificate program?

@vthomas6029 Год назад

Hi Chris- i was wondering if you had any advice l- I have a AA from 2009. (with a ton of science courses) What’s my next step? The school near me only has a rad tech program. I don’t think that would help me pass the ARDMS. Are there Assc. Of Science for Diagnostic Medical Ultrasound that are online only? Or are there accredited certificate programs?

@sorryfoo Год назад

What path did you take? Certificate, AA, or bachelor's? I have a bachelor's located in CA and not sure which path makes most sense

@monicacastillo7771 11 месяцев назад

I have a BA and I’m searching for any DMS program since we are allowed to take the ARDMS exam right after completing the program

@joanseason2740 9 месяцев назад

Love this content. very inspiring. might be a sign for me to go for it !

@angeladeniselee 3 года назад

Thank you so much for sharing your journey.

@denychangy7386 2 года назад

dropping so much knowledge. Thank you

@Chuck.Mast3r 3 года назад

Great information! I have a Chemical Engineering background and had been looking to get into Sonography. This made things seem far more practical for me to do! Thank you🙏🏽

@johnsantiago8781 2 года назад

i was in chemE in a university but dropped out even before the harder tier classes n i ended up in community college n whatever she sayin on the money.. although some of my peers that did stay and become engineers are atleast making 5-10k more or around my salary which is outstanding to me.. so yeh u in the right field.. also specialize on more areas bro... u gon be a money machinneeee

@gunchief0811 Год назад

I'm Signed up to become an X-RAY technologist it's a two-year Associates degree and it's got 1,900 clinical hours. FULLY ACCREDITED school I'm using my G.I. education benefits it's a very very thorough program I LOVE COMMUNITY COLLEGES! they teach us sooooooo much I start the D.M.I. Program I start this summer and also I'm taking the Medical terminology course and the college ALGEBRA I had a lot fo the general ed stuff already done from. different college so that's very helpful it makes it easier for me to focus on the stuff I need to focus on.

@katiejohnson1459 3 года назад

Thank you so much very helpful and informative!

@michaeladunbar9777 3 года назад

Such a great video!

@lisablake5727 3 года назад

Thank you so much!! very informative

@norreluxe2278 2 года назад

Thank you so much for posting this video super helpful. 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾

@MadelineBrooklyn2827 4 года назад

you're so helpful !!!

@brittanyharris2301 3 года назад

Congratulations to you and your accomplishments. I know that you must be so thrilled because I too recently graduated, and sat for my Abdomen and OB/GYN registries and I PASSED them!!! YAYYYY US! Anyway, my question to you is did you have to request for those certificates from ARDMS? I took my SPI my first year but I never received that certificate. As well as I haven’t received my certificate for the abdomen or OB/GYN. I took them both in September. How long should I wait? Thanks

@faithcdl1546 2 года назад

This was so helpful!!!!

@cindybesitos8933 3 года назад

I finally graduated thank you, I remember watching you before I started this journey now I’m studying for my ARRT boards.. then I sit for the ARDMS in a month or so.. I appreciate your advice babe Mine is 40K but I finished in less than 2 years.. Much love from California

@KristyDMS 3 года назад

Yesss!!

@kaylawilliams9644 3 года назад

@Cindy besitos I'm in cali to do you have any tips on programs to start. I'm sooo lost 🥺

@Chall0518 3 года назад

What school did you go

@Nat-os1wb 3 года назад

@cindy besitos @kristy le I am confused about ARRT accredited programs vs CAAHEP accreditation, the programs around my area are accredited by ARRT but when I look at jobs requirement in new york they say "CAAHEP accredited education & ARDMS certification". If you go to a program accredited by ARRT are you allow to sit for the ARDMS? would really appreciate your feedback.

@cindybesitos8933 3 года назад

I went to WCUI it’s a great school I would suggest if u do not have a Bachelors already in another field do the bachelors program there. Tell them Estela R. Sent you. You may get a better price or discounted price.

@emilypowell6401 4 года назад

My future job!! Your videos are really helping

@lolgeselle 3 года назад

Hopefully we can hear about your journey!

@alib.5159 4 года назад

I’m absolutely obsessed with this job, thank you for sharing so much information about this! I was wondering, as a potential future Sonographer, would it be smart for me to become certified in every specialty area? Does it make a difference, in your experience, to be employed?

@KristyDMS 4 года назад

If you’re strictly going to have one concentration of sonography you’ll work in there’s no point of get every speciality certification unless you plan to do different things in the future. Like right now I do MFM. So my OB cert is the most important. I have abdomen but I highly doubt I’d go back

@resetmyzen1585 2 года назад

Thank you for this 🙌🏼

@_dyanna 2 года назад

Omg thank you so much🥺🥺❤️❤️i really want to do sonography!!!

@Fabrise88 Месяц назад

I really enjoyed your video and you gave great information.

@redone7384 3 года назад

Thank you for bringing up the accreditation from CAAHEP ..there are a few schools located where I live. but most require a associate degree to enroll, two do not but the difference is the one that has the accreditation is triple the cost..as far as suny or cuny there seems to be a waiting list here. I'm really in a tough spot lol

@katherinetheresa8873 2 года назад

Yep

@katherinetheresa8873 2 года назад

The one in Brooklyn, is like 50k right? I’m guessing you’re from NY. And I’m not talking about SUNY downstate either.

@redone7384 2 года назад

@@katherinetheresa8873 Yes thats the one

@YesMamii 2 года назад

Did you decide on a school? My dream school was Suny Downstate but they require prerequisites which I'm missing 3. My next option is NY Medical Training Center 30k includes uniforms but isn't accredited. CAHE is 58k now but is accredited and has a great program. Stuck here as well.

@gabrielacelleri8490 2 года назад

@@YesMamii Im un the same spot, but I was thinking about to get an associate degree in radiology and then get a certification in sonography since there are a lot of more options in ny more cheaper and is accredited by caheep

@courtneywesley5725 3 года назад

Thank you for this!!!!!!

@Timababii 2 месяца назад

Go girl I’m signing up for July classes ❤wish me luck

@aeishawoodard7014 4 года назад

Thank You Thank You Very Good Information you May Have Answered My Guestion🤔😊👍🏽

@Qetsia 3 года назад

This was so helpful omg thanks

@Luanaontherun 2 года назад

Thank you for this ☺️

@anon52O Год назад

Although it is recommended to attend an accredited program, it's not absolutely necessary. What's more important is whether the program has legit clinicals for you to attain the necessary scanning hours/studies to sit for the exams. I'm in pediatric echo (that started in adult echo) and I've had friends go the CCI route first, then ARDMS and it has worked out great for them. I apologize if this has been reiterated.

@stresslesswithbri 3 года назад

This is so helpful, I just registered. I need to take my prerequisities first😊 I'm hoping it doesn't take too long. Thank you so much.

@KristyDMS 3 года назад

Fingers crossed!

@EchocardiographyHeart 6 месяцев назад

@@KristyDMS thank you for guiding I started follow ur vdos now can you share your insta acc

@necolebeautiful6694 4 года назад

Thank you for this information. Please tell me is how you are working on adding Fetal echo as one of your certifications?

@roxannamattke1358 10 месяцев назад

Hey! Thanks for all the information. I'm wondering how you go about getting certified in other specialties? For example, I am going to school for cardiac sonography, but I am also really interested in Ob Gyn. Thank you!

@twoalright31 4 года назад

The school that I’m planning on attending is diagnostic sonography. But I wanted to specialize in either pediatric or neuro. How do I do that? Is it after I finish or?

@ameinahill7138 2 года назад

How long did you have to attend your community college all together? Did you have to take prerequisites before starting the program at your school?

@imadaldeenestanbilly2774 3 года назад

Hi Many thanks for your explanation. I Got the ARDMS Certificate in Obs and Gyn and I wonder which exam board I have to do to get registration in the USA as a sonographer in Obs and Gyn. Also, I have not trained in the USA but as an overseas doctor. Many thanks

@tbms-jb3qx 4 года назад

Hey! I need your help! I got my bachelors and it’s a waste the only way I can do anything with it is if I do more school like nursing, dental hygiene, PT, OT, etc etc etc...there is only like 3 programs near me that is considered an associates I believe. All of them are ridiculous to get into and cost more I’m sure. Where can I do the certification route? I’m ready to work as soon as possible. Would you say that everything you said in this video is still true now or have things changed like do you have to at least have an associates now?

@madisonprotain3258 4 года назад

love your videos so much!! are their any DMS schools you would recommend in New York or around that area because I have been looking and researching but a lot of the reviews say they just want to take your money.

@KristyDMS 4 года назад

Not familiar with different areas except my own. Go on CAAHEP to look for schools in your area! Look at the reviews from there

@queenky5040 3 месяца назад

Thank you for your video. One of the things that caught my attention is that you stated school needs to be accredited but I spoke with ARDMS and there’s multiple ways to sit for your SPI. If the school is not accredited some offer to take the ARRT exam first to sit for your SPI. Do you have more insight on that?

@allisona7076 4 года назад

THANK YOUUUUUU

@jasminerodriguez4434 5 месяцев назад

Hi Kristy love your videos you are always clear and straightforward. You mentioned on your video that you also have a certificate in Diagnostic Medical Sonography. I know it takes less time to earn maybe a year or fifteen months you also decided to go for your Associates. How much does a Sonographer make with a certificate a year. I can't find any information on the pay with a certificate only. I know an Associate degree is better I am having a very hard time looking for a program in Jersey that's not to far from me. Still in the early stages of figuring out which route is best for me

@dmm7324 4 года назад

hello;) I am looking into getting into a local junior college that is accredited through the commission of community and junior colleges. I have a bachelors degree already since I had pursued teaching before my decision to expand my job field.I was told by the advisor of the school that since I have a degree already I will be able tro sit in for the ardms after I cpmplete the program should I get in;) my question is though is that im not sure if im " wasting my time and money" if it is not accredited by the CAAHP. I asked the person about the school applying for thjis accredation but she said she wasn't sure. What hurdles would I have to take if I did go to a school without the accreditation through CAAHP? Currently I reside in California and I know it is different to based on location...

@Errsvydiibc 4 года назад

Wow, so I could literally go to a community college.

@lolgeselle 3 года назад

Yup! Community college for cheap and make the same amount of money as a bachelors. Just depends if that’s what you want!

@sisterjames4110 3 года назад

@@lolgeselle Can i do it without going to college?

@redietyilma1878 3 года назад

@@sisterjames4110 some ultrasound schools offer the prereqs you take in other colleges and teach you along with their program or before their program starts but it’ll be a little expensive. It would be smart to take your pre-reqs at a community college then apply to the cheapest accredited ultrasound school and get your associate or certificate

@sisterjames4110 3 года назад

@@redietyilma1878 Ugh but i hate college sm

@juicybouche 3 года назад

So what’s the point of offerin the associates and bachelors if they’re all the same? So what’s the different between ultrasound tech and a registered DMS?

@요링이 3 года назад

Hi Kristy, Thank you for your video, I am looking for school to be a sonographer. And I found one private school but it doesn't look like has CAAHEP. I just searched it after your video. Then It means, I can't get a job even I take the programs? I am so confused.

@Addielp Год назад

Hii! Thanks for the video!💗 I have a question, if you want to do fetal echo, do you need to do a whole different program after graduated from abdomen and ob/gyn? Or you need to do extra hours at work and then do the registry? I would love more information on this please:)

@SairaKhann 2 года назад

Hi! So I’m currently a freshman in college and earning my associates degree in sociology but I really want to become an ultrasound tech and I’ve changed my major sooo many times. So is it okay if I have my associates in sociology but a certification for sonography? Also could you tell us how the board exam was for you if you haven’t already? 💗

@daiyananevaeh 3 года назад

If your going towards being an obgyn sonographer do you still need to take that test?

@BlackMoon-ck6qq 3 года назад

Hi Kristy! Do you kno if casa loma(van nuys, ca) is accredited by CAAHEP?

@francisjuarez7342 4 года назад

Do you have to retake your board exams to keep your registered license after certain years?

@meganbowen7869 4 года назад

Kristy I love your videos!! Are there sonographers that work in emergency medicine? Like in the Emergency room?

@KristyDMS 4 года назад

Megan Bowen yes and no! So if you wanna do ER you’d just work at any hospital. Bc they sent ER patients to ultrasound but you’d technically be in the radiology section and stay there. So no technically just ER. you’d do ER, inpatients , and outpatients

@estefanicruz9418 4 года назад

hi im a teen mom and im about to graduate high school, all i want is to take care of my family can you tell me about if you went college and what classes you took and did the program come in the college? can you please just let me know i really want to be in this field

@cameron3045 4 года назад

I went to school and have a bachelors. Now I’m going back for my ultrasound certification :)

@cameron3045 4 года назад

also the closest accredited program where I live is a private school. I’m going to be super in debt after..would you recommend moving somewhere else in state that has the certification? From what I see not many places near me are accredited yet

@KristyDMS 4 года назад

Cameron that’s your own judgment call. I’m not sure oh that. If you really want to then sure

@madisonrichert9211 3 года назад

Is this for all states? Im from cali and I need to make sure I can get a job with an associates degree

@animel03erlol34 3 года назад

Wish me luck, I am applying into the program through accredited school and I only need to take physics to complete the requirement and it's under 10 grand for a two year associated program.

@charmellwashington3870 3 года назад

What school is this?

@shanzehkhan5332 2 года назад

After high school do I need to choose which sonography I wanted to go in I wanted to do aas degree is there a difference between neuro sonography and sonography?

@Livelaughshart 3 года назад

I'm so thankful for this video girl..u have helped my ass so much

@Sound7heWarCry 3 года назад

Lol

@India-kg4hv Год назад

Hi, so I just finished my bachelors in health science from USF in Tampa, I majored in health management and health/behavior sciences .. I’m having a hard time deciding which career path i want to take but I do want to be in the medical field , what would you recommend being my next step as far as finding a program etc. side note, I don’t want to feel like my degree that I currently have was a waste of time but instead use it towards the field of study im going for , thank u!

@mariolaprokop430 3 года назад

What if the program offers an associate in diagnostic medical sonography but it’s not accredited but they told me that I will be able to sit for my boards and exam? I’m sorry I just don’t know if this school is gonna be a waste of time and money

@phelishagabriel6028 2 месяца назад

It was very helpful 😢

@faithtillman2567 4 года назад

Hello Kristy, so I just got accepted into a Sonography program that offers a Bachelor's degree. My only issue is that my program used to be accredited but now it's not. My program coordinator says they are working on getting reaccredited but it's taking more time to do so because of this pandemic right now. But my head program coordinator also told the class since we are a program that's getting a bachelors degree then that allows us to sit for our board exams and we can apply for jobs before graduation. If it were you would you stay in this program since the program coordinator said you are allowed to sit for your board exams but currently isn't accredited right now?

@KristyDMS 3 года назад

the main thing i would want guaranteee from your program if it is not accredited is to ask for sure if you are "eligible to take your registry board exam after complettion of the program" bc sometimes you cant. so just make sure!!!! ask askask. you do not wanna waste your time.

@anneautisms5136 2 года назад

What are the Bored exams like? Is it a ton of advanced math? I am not the best in math but I am good in science. What grade do you need to pass or is it pass are fail?

@emmamayorquin 2 года назад

This lovely content creator must not live in California. It's it the 30k range not 10k range over here. 🙈 Anyway thank you for your informative video. I just got a text from my school trying to reel me into the bachelor's program since I'm a month away from AA completion. I must decline her offer after this vid 😊🙌🏼

@evelynyan9920 2 года назад

I like this video very much, which is very helpful to me, and I have a question, if the institute is not Accredited but it shows Registered on the accreditation Canada website, can I choose this school?

@karingonzalez6640 7 месяцев назад

Do I still need to take the ARDMS if I will be taking my CCI for echo?

@ericawashington6129 3 года назад

Hello, Do you know if an accreditation in ABHES is good?

@katielynch5010 4 года назад

hi! The sonography program I'm applying to is for an associates in cardiovascular sonography. After graduating, if I wanted to later specialize in other areas of DMS, since all of the classes will have been cardiovascular-specific, how would you recommend doing that?

@KristyDMS 4 года назад

Training and doing clinical hours in whatever other ultrasound specialty for a certain amount and you can have someone sign off on you being eligible for your boards!

@deannatownsend2376 Год назад

Can I go straight out of high school for an ultrasound certificate or do I need to have previous education? For example a nurse needs to have a CNA certification before becoming a nurse. How long did it take to get a certificate?

@nylaspromise Год назад

What program is best in nyc for vascular sonography? Any suggestions anyone? Im overwhelmed, some schools mention that a associates degree/ bachelors degree is needed to start the program and some are just super expensive.

@susiekim5728 10 месяцев назад

Can you have a bachelor’s in another health field and then go into a program that is not accredited? Because one of the requirements was if it was a “formal” program not accredited?