PID Tuning Masterclass - Part 2 - D Term From Low To High 

Watching this 3 years old video demonstration is still so helpful! Jushua, love your fancy skirt :p

I will refer to you as Professor Bardwell from now on.

the whole video I was wondering how you did such good voice over work, soon as I saw you talking into the camera while it's on the ground was amazed at the microphone quality. fantastic video.

Alright i watched all these about 3 times and the black box videos twice. I am about to tune for my first time now that I have better weather here. Can you just let me know if I have close to right. 1. Lower D a bit and P. Then raise P till you get oscillation. 2. Then raise D till that oscillation goes away 3. Then Tune I to feel or where it is not moving. 4. Then when you feel everything is good you can raise p gain more to see if you like the feel better. I think it would be best for me to start with low settings to see whats happening when I increase things.

Really enjoying these. I am actually starting to make some sense of this. Can't wait for a nice day to go out and just do some tuning sessions.

i just became patron , because as you said the value of the knowledge you spread is much worth than 1$ a month. Futhermore I would say the amount of money and time you make people to save has no price.

for a begginer that haven't fly a quad , yet i still manage to understand the point. verygood tutorials keep it up more power sir Josh!!!

Dude puts on a literal masterclass for PID tuning, gronks still ask what he's wearing. smdh

Interesting stuff. Not sure I've ever seen so much D gain. Amazing that it takes it so well.

Haha 12:13 that's exactly what happend when i was frustrated because of seeing no difference and setting the D up to 500. Luckily I was able to disarm

Josh, this is a GREAT series.I'm re-tuning my quad later this week after switching to Blheli ESCs from my ANCIENT Turnigy Plush ones - so will be watching these a few times again! :) Keep it up. Oh, and on the boring subject of clothes, that's actually the first time I've seen you with your alternate attire - TBH I was more interested in the quads than the threads. You know what, I think it actually suits. I had to go back and watch your video on the topic 'cos I though you'd gone all Scottish on us! Dare to be different - only the BRAVE show their true selves.... and not everyone can pull that look off.

This is eye opening, I would never have gone that high with P or D as I was taught to keep P & D gain much lower, but now I need to see what happens if I bump P and D up much higher. time to experiment

Looking forward to your Masterclass on the I Term. Not much videos online about that part of PID tuning. For the rest. Good work Joshua!

Outstanding video and nice dress

Joshua you need to make your kwad build shirt available in a hoodie! Or just some type of cool ass hoodie! I need to represent my community, my hobby and an idol of mine Joshua haha!

Dude love the vids but are you really wearing a sun dress lol. Looks freeing and refreshing. Keep up the cool and informative vids I've learned almost everything I know from these vids. Thanks a million

thank you very much, JB :)

HE'S WEARING A KILT I LOVE IT

Are you wearing a skirt? Thanks for this series because I have been struggling with PID for some time.

Is this skirt common on men in the US?

Thanks JB for another very helpful guide.

You were saying something bad will happen with high D values (Ive commented in previous videos about I like the strapped tunning cus I am paranoid). Well what happened to me is on old CC3D mini F1 board - after arm it was OK but as you added Thr and moved a hair to roll, quad started to SWING it self till it flipped and then it smashed anything in its way (I have a scar). It is small tarot 200 but it is a rocket. As far as I could understand - what happened was it got stuck in D loop and just "snowballed" till it flown 100% on some motors. It was happening because of new cleanflight that was somehow creating an error on chip. If I am wrong, Ill be happy understand.

''Warm motors are normal, Hot motors are abnormal'' for those who were wondering. You can pinched warm motors and hold your fingers there compared to You want to take your fingers off when a motor is hot.

@Josh, You really learned to land since your last "PID TUNING" videos. :)

This series is freakin' amazing bro. Wow you really needed high D to get that sound I have heard with the D in the low 40s. QUESTION sir! How does prop size, generally speaking, affect D? Do 6" props usually have lower D than 5" props? Also, how about motor size? Do 2205 and 2206 have lower or higher D, generally, than say 2207 or 2408?

need more!! (I can't wait another day haha)

That's good stuff, exactly what I wanted to know. Greatly appreciated.

Very good videos Joshua. In Spain we hope you subtitle videos in Spanish or English to understand everything. Thank you.

It's a Sarong. Other names in eastern cultures Veshti or Mundu.. by the way thank you Joshua for this video. Only being in the hobby since mid summer of last year the information you're passing on is clicking. Could you please touch on rates as well. So we can get a better understanding on the correlation between PIDs and rates?

Looks like u have a bottom mount battery in this video. Why did the industry move away from bottom mount batteries? Almost never see it now

Thanx Joshua. 👍😊 I got my first programmable fc the other day for my tiny whoop. So now I'm getting my hands dirty. A beecore f3 evo. Questions: - What are good pid gain values to start tuning with on a brushed fc like the beecore ? - What is the best silicone wire to use on small 1S batteries (replacing connectors) and for power to the flight controller? (bottle necks in mind, also weight and flexibility) Thanx Joshua

Just one suggestion do the same P and D testing under strong wind 😉

Hey JB i just got a whoop bnf with around 47g with a 550mah battery to be exact it is the Whoopfly16 by sub 250 and thats the pid's for it. It came that way thats their cli. Isn't that to high D-Gain especially. It is both high 90 and over 100. Can you help me. I pretty new in the hobby looks to me they want to sell more motors that way because all beginners like me won't notice and burn out their motors. Whats the deal here do you have any guidance? set p_pitch = 80 set i_pitch = 143 set d_pitch = 103 set f_pitch = 142 set p_roll = 76 set i_roll = 136 set d_roll = 91 set f_roll = 136 set p_yaw = 76 set i_yaw = 136 set d_yaw = 0 set f_yaw = 136

Hi josh Would that PID tuning procedure good to use for quads that used for inspection for example? I was thinking in the video about keep raising D gain but what it look like if you lower P to 60 and kept D on 20?

Ive never tuned D beyond 25...

Hello Joshua! Thank you for your video. Very informative and helps to understand the settings kvadrocoptera. One request in this video does not work subtitles. Please correct.

yes Daniel the Thrust Riot 250 is amazing just got to figure out what's up with my goggles assuming module at this point

At what point and how do you address Yaw D? I usually do full yaw LOS and bump it up until it stops jumping but not sure if this is the best strategy.

good vid josh, very helpful. you know a lot about pids haha

Professor Bardwell...Is that a Kilt you were wearing?

Im wondering if all this wobbling is down to balance cos I have an unusual racing quad (camera mounted on top with a servo) and I get no osculations at all, I can descend in my wake with zero wobble, no wobbling on sharp turns flips and rolls and its default PID settings.

Did there happen to be TPA on the tune? If so I think that could have reduced oscillation on the wide open throttle. Maybe you could do a video on a low vs high pid's and how tpa affects each one. Really enjoying the content you create.

Josh my new build has the SpeedyBee f7 v2 With the motors XINGS 2207 1800kv seems like it’s having a hard time lifting up and left shop but it feels like there’s a lot of weight. I haven’t messed with a PID’s yet.

hey Josh I sunday I was flying and my diatone tyrant video was great until I took off then I lost signal at less than 20 yards. so yesterday I attempted to fly my Thrust Riot and it did the exact same thing not complete signal loss just terrible quality have you had this before ? thanks a ton your the best

Hi Josh This video is very helpful, I am wondering if you have ever seen a flight controller run away (keep rolling when control input is released) caused from bad PID tuning. I just re-used a flight controller Betaflight F3 AIO running d-shot 600 in a new build, it was working fine in the original frame. It flys amazing motors are warm but not hot but once in a while I will do a fast roll and it does not come out of it when I remove the roll command, it keeps rolling, I can hear the motors winding up and down gently and rolls real smooth all the way to the ground. Had anything like this happened to you????? BTW I was using stock PIDs and then reduced all PID values by 10 points and problem is better but now I get a big bounce at the end of my rolls.

Great video! This will help me alot!

Hey Joshua, great video (as always ;) ) I have two issues :/ 1st I cant "save my log to file" from onboard flash (newest config and BF fw) and 2nd I have a little bounce when doing a hard roll to the right and sometimes when flipping back. But its not really a bounce, its like the copter stops to early and wants to correct it, so that the end of the flip/roll looks unsmooth. I already played around with my D values but it is always there :/ Also I played with the D setpoint weight/transition but it doesn't help very much. The strange move is still there. S any idea whats my problem? And why cant I save my logs from the FC to my PC lol Otherwise I would have send you a BB log. Thank you! (FC is SPF3- Aikon SEFM 30A DShot300 - EMAX RS2205(not S))(Motors get hand-warm, not hot, and my Setup is not very noisy)

Still so hard to understand..... :(

HI Joshua, the preset pid from stock Cleanflight naze firmware 2.0.2 on my own build 250/naze32/ is unstable. I managed to get the I gain as low as 2 for roll and pitch and yaw untouched. quad is flying great but after some aggresive acro flying, and flicking back to angle mode, quad flips or tilts uncontrollable. (I want to flick to angle mode to sometimes save the quad from over rolling or pitching when I loose orientation) what could be the problem? thanks in advance, Omer

very very good

If i have really slow bounceback on flips and rolls what is that? D is getting kinda high as is P

Link at the end of video leads to part 1. Should be part 3.

Should I put on slightly damaged props or brand new ones when I tune my quad?

Hi Josh, For a stretched X, wouldn't roll P gain typically be lower than pitch? I.e. on my Alien, Pitch P is also slightly higher bc of the more spread mass on that axis (I think). Looking forward to the next episodes in this series! Happy flying!

Another good one

joshua rocking a rotor riot skirt ;)

This is with engine breaking on?

Wouldn't it help to lower the pid/gyro loop to 2k or 1k help demonstrate the high-D effect you are looking for? As I believe a faster loop makes it harder to see?

Just did a rebuild 2207 five s copter. Stock pids roll seems to have all the aighna of to much d term motors are extremely hot mostly the rear ones. Always seems like to much d term but stock pids seems a bit strange.

also keep in mind I fly at my house all the time 41 acres in the middle of nowhere and normally we fly 200 yard circles

umm whats with the dress !?

I have a basic knowledge of betaflight I can set up install and get my Quadcopter flying but understanding the terms and what they do is a little bit in the gray area as I have not seen anything on betaflight Wiki if there is any links to any one explaining what these are that would be helpful thanks and you have awesome videos

Stock Beta PIDS much lower(specially P) and smoother.

Nice dress bro :D

From your stick movements it seems like your rates are fairly low but the way the quad behaves it seems like they're high'is. Are they actually higher or lower than stock?

I assume you are running the T-motor F40 II 2400kv motors that you used in the build video? And you said you used the Strix Talon props but what size? Reason I ask is because on my quad (Emax RS2205S 2600kv on 5046 Dal Cyclone props) I am running P in the upper 30s (36 and 40) and I see you taking them up into the 80s yet I could never get mine that high. Is it possible that they are actually too low and need to come up past a certain point or is that just normal for a higher KV setup with heavy props?

What props are you using in this vid? King Kong 5x4's or 5x4x3?

half way thru pt.2!! lol!!!

I got a Wizard X220, but the gyro is kinda bad and I seem to get a lot of vibration in the frame. The default tune on BF 3.1 gives crazy oscillations at high throttle. O rings and your videos are really helping me try to tune around the problem! Thank you so much!

since upgrading fto r4 returner 2300kv motors from rs2205 I've found they are usually warm on landing doesn't matter on 4s or 5s same warm. high pids lower pids, still same warm. not hot. but never nice and cold.

is there a reference section or glossary section for the terms used in betaflight especially in the PID tab to help me better understand what each thing does thank you

What do "hot" motors equate to in degrees fahrenheit? Thanks.

Are you going to do a part 3 on I term? Very helpful and informative, thanks! Also, at 10:30, can you please explain how the excess D gain causes video noise? Another question, you linked a video in the comments on how to change PID in flight via a switch method... How do you get it to show up on the OSD, like in this vide, and are you using the same switch method?

How are you changing the pids in the field?

Wouldn't some of the propwash be caused by yaw not being tuned? I got the impression there that it actually did oscillate on the yaw axis during sharp turns - but I'm inexperienced.

My quad(CC3D+ZMR250)has a strong oscillation when hovering with a low P and D gain, with PID roll 20 40 15, pitch 20 35 15, I start to increase D gain up to 70 along with a little P gain up to 30, the oscillation by hovering and turing decreases but is never elimated. What should I do, should I continue increasing D gain or should I check the other parts?

Why do I still have a lot of bounce back

and or do you know if anybody has made a video explaining what the terms mean and betaflight thanks and as always happy ripping

I'm still getting propwash oscillations on fast tight turns. Is it ever possible to tune these out completely or could vibrations through the gyro be the cause? I can't seem to tune them out with the PIDs

Joshua, is there a link to a video explaining how you are changing PID's in the field? Sorry about the newb question ;)

Hi Joshua! I am getting vibrations when I drop the throttle to min (and a little video noise) on my 6" running 6045 triblades on a finx 40 2607 1500kv wraith 35 amp blheli32 set up. I assumed this was D term after watching this but I have bumped it up a bit with no improvement. Looks like it is something in the active braking. Any advice?

great series so far. Question, so when i start, I drop the P super low and D at zero. Do I leave I gains where they were at stock or what should i put them at. Thanks man, cant wait to go out and tune my "Ghettocopter" now.

You're a boss, thanks! :)

How hot is too hot for the motors? I have my D gain at 30 for both pitch and roll and I can feel my motors are warm but I wouldn't say they are hot. Also, does the D setpoint weight and transition sliders cause any extra heat depending on what they are set at?

My prob is when I drop throttle after a punch out in wants to flip forward and I'm trying to correct instead of whatever trick I had planned to do

How do you define a hot motor?

In what place of beta flight u hubicate the third value of ur. Numberd... I not speak English so well... I listen :T gain... Is the rate valuenumber? Or superate valuenumber? Sorry if im missed. Thanks in advance...

I have been flying an F3 chip with standard blheli and oneshot125 on my xHover. I recently built an Alien RR5 and I am running an F4 chip with 8k/8k DSHOT600 using FVT Littlebee Spring dshot ESCs. With default BF PIDs in 3.1.6 I noticed all four motors were equally warm but not hot. I cannot fly every day so my next chance will be Friday so I can finish my tune. I noticed most of the time you comment that your motors are cool. Just wondering if warm motors are normal as well? I am running the Lumenier 2206-11 with the proper screws and the ESCs are insulated from the frame.

Hi Joshua. Love your channel. So much great info. Could you please explain why a high D term could cause hot motors?

Is it normal that my copter needs 50-60 P-Term?

quick question?? are u using tpa during all this or did you disable it?

Should we have a lower d gain on yaw or is it just personal preference?

So once you get a good pid tune. Will you have to redo it on new motors?

Thanks Josh ;-)

Are you wearing a dress?

At 2:37 you mention how you aren't experiencing oscillations when you are climbing and descending with power changes. It appears your attitude is fixed when doing this. Since this isn't a pitch or roll change and isolated to application of power I don't believe your pitch and roll PID settings would have any effect on that aspect thus the reason you aren't seeing any effect from the settings..

On my wizard, I put the same pid that your tutorial... and when I putt over 50% trottle their are some vibrations on my quad... What should I do ? (Sorry for my bad english) thx for the answers !

what should I adjust to fix mid throttle oscillations, it's a new quad and I can see oscillations when Cruising around.

My 2 inch keeps pitching back (or wobbling) after a dive. What I've to do?

Put it up to 500.