Pilots Can't Understand JFK Controller 

I am surprised nobody noticed how I messed up a word while I was talking but anyway thanks for watching.

I'm actually surprised incidents like this one don't happen more often. And by the way, I wish ATC would always say "cannot" instead of "can't". It makes a huge difference .

I think we can all figure out they haven't invited Kelsey to design an airport because having a pilots' lounge with free snacks would bankrupt the airport.

I’m a controller here at SCEL, glad to have you here! We would never give a runway involved taxi clearance without a specific “cleared to enter runway 04L, turn left onto 04L and hold short of F”, even when controlling in Spanish due to the rarity of the clearance.

Pilot wasn't understanding but controller wasn't listening which is worse.

14:52 Kelsey, you’re spot on. This is EXACTLY the technique one uses to confirm foreign language statements you “sort of understand” from a foreign language speaker. Based on what you THOUGHT you heard, you try to state it back to them in the form of a narrow question (focused but limited use by you of the language) to try to get a YES/NO. If it is a NO, you ask a narrow but different question, and repeat the process iteratively, until you get a CONFIRMATION.

There is “understanding English” then there is understanding “JFK English.”

That controller spoke like an auction master with a rag in his mouth.

Kelsey, I'm going to weigh in here. I grew up in Bergen County, NJ, about 45 minutes from JFK. Even I have a hard time understanding these controllers' version of 'English'. Let's place the blame squarely where it lies. These controllers need to stop clipping their words, learn and use the "Mid-Atlantic English" dialect when communicating with pilots that are having trouble understanding them. As a US taxpayer, I believe that this should be the standard in the interest of safety, and these highly compensated controllers need to be held to that standard. It isn't difficult to take a step back, and take an extra 1-2 seconds to slow down, think about what that pilot needs, and deliver it. Especially when they're paid.. no, OVERpaid to do exactly that.

Im actually Brazilian and I have spoken English most of my life, I learnt it as a little kid. The past 7 years I have worked in a 5 star hotel attending mostly to English speaking customers. There is something about this radio transmission that even READING what Im supposed to be hearing, I dont get it. I dont think the controller is speaking any faster than Im used to hearing the language however there is something here that is a bit harder than usual for me to understand. I gonna show this to my coworkers and my brothers to see if they agree with me. Thanks for the awesome content as usual!

At one of the Air Force bases I was assigned to, had parking for 80 large aircraft. We always used a follow me truck to guide the pilots to their spot. At overseas bases, where our pilots are not familiar with, a follow me truck was highly recommended.

I'm an American and have lived in the US my entire life. I am also an instrument-rated private pilot who owns my own Cessna 182. I have never had problems understanding ATC at Airports, but I have had issues understanding ATC in the "Centers" and the "Tracon" facilities all over the southeast. I remember a controller working at "Indy Center" who I could not understand his words. I was not the only one either. He was working low altitude and there was not much activity on the freq, still, he had to speak like there was. Another pilot and this controller were about to lock horns when finally a female voice came on the freq. I could hear her and went on to my destination Airport.

At 10:45 the controller says "I have no idea what you are saying". This perfectly summarises _exactly how the Malaysian pilots feel._ It might sound perfectly clear to a native American what the controller said but I can tell you even once he slowed right down he is _not speaking clearly._ He is gabbling, mumbling, swallowing half of some words. *The whole point of the ICAO alphabet is to make communication clearer* and here we have someone who might as well have used sign language for some of what he says. "Runway" came out as a single-syllable _ru-a_ at one point and "Juliet" was _mumble,_ just two examples that jumped out at me. Without the transcript on screen I would have been even more lost than those pilots, and English is my home language, just not New Yorkese English. Yeah, eventually the controller slowed down and enunciated a _little_ more clearly but by then those pilots were so flustered they couldn't think straight and he was clearly pissed. No it's *_absolutely not_* all on the pilots, and the controller was *_absolutely not_* doing everything he could to help them out. He was doing everything he could _except_ take a breath, calm the fuck down, and start speaking like he was talking to two tired foreigners who were now in a tizzwazz instead of like an irritated father talking to a stubborn 5-year-old.

The fact that the local pilots are helping out while the controller just doesn’t seem to care is insane. How are the local pilots more helpful than the controller lol

Hello. This was really interesting. Although I have no experience with flying, I do understand and agree with Kelsey's idea for eliminating the ambiguity. But in the defence of the pilots, who may have been Brazilian (Portuguese), or even Spanish-speakers as part of the bigger LATAM... I say that I, with Spanish as my native language, and having lived in Australia since 1989, I didn't gather the words "runway 4L" from the controller once. The surtitles made it clear for me, but otherwise, I was lost. (Now, yes, pilots should be able to understand "4L" isn't B). Also, at least in Spanish, a question entonation ends with an elevated accent, so when the controller says "are you cleared to the ramp", it doesn't 'sound' like a question. Again, from having learned English as a second language, hearing questions being said as a statement is instinctively confusing, and the use of "are we cleared" and "we are cleared" isn't as natural. I remember being explained this by a friend who said that in english, only questions that need a yes or no answer require the higher tone at the end. (Didn't work for this example, either). Great video with great visual aids, Kelsey. Thank you.

I'm British, I've learned - to varying extents - 6 different languages; two classical, two "romance" as French and related languages are called, and two Germanic. I'm currently learning Dutch, but I doubt I'll ever get so fluent as to understand a light-hearted, or worse, an excited radio broadcast (I am only just over the water from The Netherlands and can pick up some stations), such as a football match, because of their phenomenal talking speed 😂. However, if it is spoken at an easy pace, I get the drift. Each language has required me to listen to spoken text for dictation practice, again to a greater or lesser extent. I'm also pretty musical and I've got a good ear for accents, dialects (those in UK English - there are countless of both, some are harder to understand than others). All of the above gives me a better than average ability to hear difficult (to outsiders) accents, and understand someone speaking English at a fair rate of knots (aka fast!) I can pick up the vast majority of air traffic controllers you play, but this guy's rapid, and occasionally almost slurred speech (he runs some words into the next, particularly the jargon) meant I had to read the text. Had he spoken at your normal video presentation speed (I don't know how quickly you'd speak with family and friends - most of us speed up), I think the pilot would have had a better chance of understanding him. I'm not saying that the pilot wasn't partially to blame. However, his airline should take that blame for not giving him lessons in "ATC English". My sister, who has spent most of her life in Germany, knows (or knew - he'd retired from the RAF when I was 16, slightly more than 40 years ago. Big sis is ten years older than me and I assume he was a bit older. I don't know if Rick is still with us) an English, English teacher. His job was to train German ATCs to speak said "ATC English". He was fortunate that he was teaching Germans as many start learning English early, but I do remember him saying something along the lines that it's clarity which is important, jargon isn't. I totally agree! He also said that the vast majority of his pupils were excellent, which surprised nobody ;) I think this is a perfect example of the employers of both men not being sure that their employees can be understood, and can understand others. I could never do the job of an ATC, but I do know that I would prioritise clarity over speed at all times. Just like the hare and the tortoise, slowly does it wins the race! One, perhaps two attempts at giving the pilots instructions in a calm, clear manner would have prevented the cockup and taken a _lot_ less time than it actually took.

I used to love listening to a retired ground controller, Steve Kennedy. He literally had me wetting my pants with some of his directions to pilots. I remember when he was sequencing pilots for departure and someone screwed up. He said as only Steve Kennedy could have said,”someone screwed”. Another pilot told him that these were the instructions that he was given. Steve’s reply was” I told you to do that” followed by the pilots reply, “ YES YOU DID”! Steve Kennedy was a legend at JFK ground. He knew the airport like the back of his hand. I miss his jocularity even to this day!

Man, I'm a pilot and taxing is way more stressful and harder than flying the aircraft, that's for damn sure. I still have a hard time following all these chain of taxiways that sometimes the ATC throws at you.. and they speak really fast, it doesn't help either.

I can't really say because the captions make it easier to understand, but as a brasilian, I think that controller was speaking very clearly.

This might be a silly question, but I am Brazilian and my english level is really advanced as I'm able to have any type of conversation with peope with the most varying accents and I have a lot of experience with the language overall, but I can't seem to understand much of what pilots or AT controllers are saying even though I (think I) know a lot about aviation since I've been a nerd about it for a long time. Anyway, my question is do you think if I were to take lessons to know nomenclature more deeply and so on I'd be able to pick it up? It seems like too much of a challenge to me even tho I consider myself 100% fluent as I communicate very easily and fluidly. I love your channel, been here a long time.

I wonder why this still is done like 70 years ago. The cheapest satnav in a car is more sophisticated. Show the exact path on a display with the airport map and the controller only has to ask the pilot to follow the route and eventually tell him to stop/ hold or continue...even that can be visualized by a red or green kind of s traffic light on the display.

Great advice Kelsey! It seems that flying a 747 is easier than taxiing with people giving you orders with different English accents and talking at the speed of sound in a maze!

Well, I’m glad I won’t ever have to deal with that ATC. Yes, the pilots should understand simple instructions in English but I must say that even though I was born in NYC I had a hard time understanding what he was saying because he was speaking at a much faster rate than I’m used to. If there’s one thing I’ve learned through the years is to slow my speech when talking with anyone with a heavy accent while speaking English, it’s called courtesy and respect to those who do not master the US version of English. Effective Communication is only achieved when both parties do what’s necessary to understand the other.

Sounds like everything in NYC ,not just the airport .

I believe that part of the problem is that "Ground Controller" is giving a very casual clearance to enter a runway. I don't know if 04L was active or not by Notam. First of all, we don't expect ground frequency to give us clearance to enter a runway. As you know, normally tower give such clearances. If ground frequency does, it should be clearly stated that an aircraft is clear to "enter" or "cross" a runway. In this case, ground controller simply said: 'left G then left on 04L holdshort of F' Obviously the controller is asking the aircraft to taxi on 04L.. but it is lacking the word CLEAR TO ENTER 04L.. I believe that's why LATAM missed getting the clearance right, apart from english barrier.

Really enjoy your videos and I'm learning a lot My son was a pilot and now I can have conversations with him out it.

"I'll talk to the ground frequency, you'll talk to the ramp frequency..." That already sounds complicated, I always thought that there were only two control systems; air and ground.

How much would it have cost these fast-talking NY folks to slow down and utter the word "runway four left", instead of repeating the abbreviated version multiple times?

One of the most complex airports in the country is staffed by the least patient and helpful people in the country (New Yorkers).

I've just watched 10 of your vids in a row. So good. Thanks.

The ICAO English has a certain specification. It is speed of the speech base and a specific pronunciation. this controller most probably missed that at school, moreover, when he doesn’t understand that the pilot in the airplane doesn’t understand, he does not adjust his speech. He did not try to pronounce more clearly, and he didn’t slow down or switched to step by step instructions.

Insane airport design. Whoever did it should be ridiculed for evermore!

Kelsey, I am a new flight simmer, and I find your videos to be quite informative. Thanks for the education! 😁

Just a thought, why don't some of the big airports use Tugs to pull you out to a run up zone, thereby cutting down on the overall fuel burn. Especially some of those where you have big delays.

I love JFK, the place is a constant source of entertainment. Once I came nose-to-nose in the fog with an Air France 747 whom had taken the wrong taxiway (they were on Bravo when they were supposed to be on Alpha). Gotta be on your A-game in NY, JFK and LGA.

Anytime these guys are cleared to taxi into the runway there’s trouble… like they’re afraid to enter the runway and misunderstand.

hi kelsey. personally, i think i would also have done exactly as the latam pilots did. theres no way we need to see another Tenerife disaster. I prefer safety. fine me. condemn me. i genuinely think this is the LATAM pilots doing their best to show the controller what they considered to be a mistake. it's not language barrier. they heard and understood alright. and wanted to NOT get the controller into trouble. they did not want to dob the controller in.

JFK was designed before jets and aircraft were popular as today. That’s a contribution to the issue and congestion there. And yes: the ramp is very much different there.

As a native English speaker with no accent, I have always been baffled how you guys can understand each other on the radio at all?! Is there some kind of trick I don’t know?

Most Traffic controllers are arrogant because they can speak fast. They think fast is better, they forget that they are there to serve the pilot as he navigate the cockpit and the airplane. This flares up when pilots arrive to unfamiliar airports.

The controller should slow down to ensure the pilot understands,quit being the badass with a New York attitude and be a little understanding,what a jerk.I don’t agree in this instance that the controller is doing everything he can,all he is doing is creating confusion.

Maybe it's just because I grew up in New York (and actually lived like 15 minutes from JFK), but I understand the JFK ground controller pretty well.

Charlie Brown's teacher spoke clearer than ATC

it doesn't actually matter if ATC was speaking in a way the pilot *should* have understood, it matters that the pilot clearly *didn't* understand and still the ATC didn't slow down, speak more clearly, or some other thing to ensure accurate communication between all parties, creating a potentially dangerous situation. even though it could be argued the pilot should not have be allowed to fly internationally with his understanding of english, the fact of the matter is that was the situation at hand and the pilot needed clearer instruction. the ATC person was the person who could help in the moment yet he chose not to and for that reason i'm personally much more critical of the ATC's job performance than the pilot's

I am not English speaker and my level is not that high so I didn't understand first time, but from the second time and so on, the controller said Foxtrot the clearest way ever lol

The controller is not doing everything he can. He could have and should have spoken a little more slowly instead of repeating the same words at the same pace over and over again. What's the point if you clearly see that these pilots don't understand what you're saying?

NY controllers need to slow down their speech and speak clearly using standard internationally accepted phraseology. For an example of controllers who do this perfectly are the controllers at london Heathrow. This results in less “say again” repeats and misunderstood clearances. I have flown into both airports many times being an airline captain.

I am an English speaking pilot. The controller could have said “turn left on Golf, enter Runway 04 left, hold before Foxtrot”. The New York accent, the speed of delivery, the abbreviated words (fox/foxtrot) coupled with non native English speakers and fatigue all made for an accident waiting to happen. it must be remembered by ATC that they are there to help pilots and improve safety … the controller could simply have said “hold position” if he was not happy with communication and made certain that the aircraft had the correct taxi routing established before continuing.

I was arguing with the very controller last week because none of us 3 at the F/D didn’t understand more than 30% and my English is pretty good. And I fly mostly in Asia and Africa, so I’m used to bad English, but this is hard stuff to listen to 😮 My F/O was Australian and the 2nd F/O was from Canada and even they had a very hard time.

I don’t even wanna be on the taxiway too long. You never know when Harrison Ford is flying in.

The ATC talks at 1000 words a minute, and not clearly, then acts like a jerk when pilots can’t understand him.

I've found that German, Dutch and Polish controllers among others speak noticeably far clearer and more intelligible English than far too many controllers in The States.

My favorite JFK taxiing scenarios are when Ground tells a plane to relay an ultimatum to Ramp that they won't be clearing any more planes out onto their taxiways until Ramp clears them into the ramp. Ground and Ramp have completely opposite priorities, they don't talk directly to each other, and they don't work for the same organization. So the flight crew are like kids mediating a bitter dispute between divorced parents who are not on speaking terms. Conflict is built into the system.

Thank you Kelsey for saying that taxiing can be more stressful/difficult than actually flying, now I don't feel like such an idiot anymore :D

JFK...the airport where pilots go to age 20 years in 10 minutes and the conga line goes on for a mile...Happy Father's Day to all the Dads out there! Have a great week everyone!

Controller speaking way too fast. He needs additional training.

English is my first language, my hearing is fine, but I had about as much trouble understanding the tower as I did the pilots. If I were the pilots I think I would have died of anxiety.

Props to the pilots for assisting. In today's digital age there is no reason why JFK cannot implement a system where the controller can see clearances in real time, they should review their procedures and not pass on airport clearance duties to pilots.

4L can be interpreted as "for left" which when literally translated into Portuguese is "para a esquerda" which means "to the left". Many Brazilians will translate "vira para a esquerda" literally as "turn for left" when speaking English. So when the controller says "turn left Golf, left turn_on [pause] Fo(u)r left hold short o'foxtrot" - the Brazilian pilot just heard they had to make a bunch of left turns after turning left on Golf. After the first time the controller said it like that, the damage was already done. Sorry, but it's really not that clear to begin with, however much the controller tried to fix it later, because the first thing you heard psychologically sticks with you. I'm in the business of localization and internationalization, I speak 6 languages, and I'm married to a Brazilian. My job is to flag things like this situation which can be an impediment to good understanding.

As a foreigner living in US for 21 years and a fellow pilot, I also have a hard time understanding ATC sometimes. I had times when couldn’t clearly understand ATC instructions and used “say again” some of them seem to be angry at me. Which makes believe that these controllers are showing sign of being overwhelmed and under staff and FAA needs to address that, before a tragedy happens.

I literally can't understand a single word they are saying over the radio. How do you pilot understand anything without subtitles?

I am English. Not a pilot. No hearing impediment or other problem understanding my language. BUT, I can not understand half of the rapid-fire poor pronunciation of some of the traffic controllers on your vlogs. Its no surprise to me that a foreign native would be confused.

You mentioned about the foreign accent issues and I said to myself, "You are right, that controller does have a bit of a brogue", then I realized you were talking about the pilot :-). The controller was running his own shorthand as well, he said "Fox" instead of "Foxtrot" a few times. One reason the alphabet code is about two syllables is to insure no confusion. Trying to shorten it WILL force confusion. Thanks Kelsey!!!

As a native English speaker from the UK I struggle to make out what the controller is saying. I can't imagine how hard it must be for a non native speaker, especially under pressure (+possible fatigue) in an airport with unusual set up. I feel it would be much safer to slowy and clearly say the directions once the controller hears there might be communication issues. That being said, it would also make sense for pilots to make sure they are ready to receive fast instructions in English before landing too. All around seems dangerous. (Including the waiting on a runway)

Sometimes, reusing the same sequence of words, which were not understood the first time, just maintains the confused status quo. When I detect that what I'm saying isn't being understood, I try to vary my words, their order, their intonation--something. This ATC continues to parrot the same exact, rather fuzzy sequence of words that are not sinking in at the other end. Yes, the pilot(s) should have read all their notes before arriving at JKF, but the controller isn't helping.

This actually reminds me of a big mistake I made when I was a freshly minted private pilot. Taxi for departure at KCMI, I was given instructions to 32R at A5, and was cleared for an intersection takeoff. I got confused and thought I was cleared to 32L, so I crossed 32R and came nose to nose with a big twin. Luckily the ground controller sorted me out, but I could feel the irritation in his voice. He never gave me a number to call though. This taught me a lesson to ask when in doubt.

5:26 “you’re not even listening sir” goes on to say turnleftonGturnleftonrunway4LholdshortF as fast as he can🤦‍♂️

This controller would save a lot of time if he improved his diction and stopped swallowing the ends of his sentences. I'm a native English speaker (Brit) and I have trouble understanding him.

the ATC should have said things more slowly and clearly at least once! ATC was emphasizing his anger and frustration more than his instructions. Willing to solve the problem and avoid the risk should be the priority, not enforcing some sort of communication power distance.

I am a native English speaker, and I cannot understand a damn word this tower guy is saying. And once again, I have to wonder why a billion dollar industry with safety in mind uses radios from the 1950's.

One thing I like about England is that in public communications speakers most use "received pronunciation." When announcements are made over PA systems and train stations in airports, the speakers are easily understood by anyone who speaks English . When I listen to New York controllers with their rapidfire New York pronunciations I understand why foreign pilots have a hard time understanding them. I am an American, and I find them sometimes find them hard to understand.

If only US ATC people would talk more slowly and clearly. Big respect for any international pilots flying there trying to understand them as non native speakers.

Apart from non-English-speaking pilots, some JFK controllers do not know how not. know how to speak in clear standard English without "swallowing their words".

Yes. Talk super fast using a dialect that even as an American i struggle to follow, rather than just slowing down for a moment and ensuring understandable communication.

I don''t speak Portuguese but I have some Spanish and I can see in some instances that the Brazilian pilots were using English vocabulary and Portuguese grammar. That has the potential to flip questions into declarative sentences.

One of my favorite things about you Kelsey, is your humility. Simply saying you might have done this or thought about that, gives any pilot food for thought. You're an absolute teacher. Limited judgement, advice that can help everyone from a zero hour student to a multiple thousand hour commercial pilot make this channel a must follow. You're awesome!

I have to disagree a little bit. First the controller is not easy to understand because he speaks with no separation. 4 left sounds like forklift. I listened to this several times on both this and another platform and I never did understand every word the controller said, and I’ve spoken English for 68 years. There’s no separation of words until he gets upset. Second his compartmentalized culture and work ethic both of where he lives and the airport makes the situation dangerous. He can’t think outside of the box. He just wants what he wants.

You think the controller is speaking clearly - to me his accent and speed of talking is hard for me a native speaker to understand in the beginning and I am a native speaker. I caan easily see how a foreign speaker could have a problem.

English is my native language and I still found understanding ATC was the hardest part of my flying experience as a private pilot in the San Francisco Bay Area.

My 2 cents worth. I was on the jump seat (ATC famil. flight) of a DC3 (yes, I am showing my age) and a controller I knew read out the METAR VERY fast. The co-pilot turned to me and said "did you get that?". After some discussion I think we all ((3 of us in cockpit)) agreed we only got the runway in use and the QNH. Lesson 1) for a new ATC - the pilot needs to write this information down, speak at a rate that allows for this. Lesson 2) For any pilot unfamiliar with the airfield/airspace or ESL (english second language) - cut them some slack and be helpful with your information and rate of speak delivery - you won't have to repeat yourself and P people (including yourself) off. Thanks for calling this one out Kelsey

4L (four left) is a hell of word combination for non-native speakers' ears. It could be easily mistaken for 'for left', which makes no sense for a native speaker but can be very confusing for non-natives. If the controller would have said 'runaway 4L' it would make things much easier...

The controller is NOT very clear. He often sounds like an auctioneer. He speaks too fast. It’s not always about your grasp of English.

I served in the Artillery in 1991. Back then, all fire missions was transmitted using radio. At lot of training went in to radio discipline as it was important to get _right_ shells to land at the _right_ time at the _right_ location, _every_ time. Oh, yes, and quickly too. Life depended on that. IMHO that JFK controller sucks. He's trying to do things fast; but ends up doing them slower because he have to repeat - end he didn't even get the correct result.

In regards to the first part: You gotta appreciate Kennedy Steve how he started to speak very slowly and started to emphasize the important things once he noticed that the pilots were not native english speakers and had a hard time understanding the instructions. Ie. "Taxi to G O L F, H O L D S H O R T of X Y Z". I think these pilots got very confused and concerned to taxi onto a runway. Something normal in JFK but unusual almost anywhere else.

That guy in the tower should speak more slowly and clearly. In an effort to speed things up, hes slowing things down and increasing the likelihood of an accident.

*My biggest fear in wanting to get my pilot's license* is not being able to clearly hear instructions given by ATC, _even in English-speaking countries._ Even on RU-vid using my Sony bluetooth headphones, I can't make out words occasionally and have to fall back on auto-captions for a second opinion, so that really kills my confidence on being able to hear ATC clearly on the crazy staticky and low-fidelity aviation communications.

As a Brazilian airline pilot I’d never think to taxi on a runway unless I am specifically cleared to enter it for taxing purposes. Empathy is much needed in a situation like that, specially if you’re an ATC dealing with foreign pilots carrying around 300 passengers at your airport seeing that they’re having issues understanding you. Stick to the standard icao doc 9432 phraseology, speak slower, speak clearer! If we all stick to the ICAO standards we ought to understand each other quite clearer! Big hugs from Brazil! You’re all most welcome here

I had flights to jfk, Newark, Miami, Boston. Usually there is a lack of radio discipline in American controllers. They speak, fast, eat words, and with the so called American accent and not aeronautical technical English. Flying to any airport in Great Britain, it’s still English but with perfect timing, clear instructions and proper pace. Even German controllers that have a very different mother language are much more professional in terms of language and talking in the radio then in those airports. Not saying that they don’t know what they do, they do and they are operational, but they lack proper language, proper timing and proper aeronautical English even being the “americano English” their mother language. In Europe there is no need to coordinate with ramp. That is a task for the ground controller. Pilots ar full of work taxiing, doing checklists and usually after long flights. It’s the system it self that is poorly designed, making pilots coordinate airport service. Pilots should pilot. Period. That enough workload.

I am grateful there are professionals that understand how all of these systems work. I can barely muster the cognitive ability to find the airport, park, get through TSA, and find the correct gate. Making it onto the right plane and into my assigned seat fills me with such a giddy sense of accomplishment that I wanna call someone and brag about it.

When it was obvious that the pilot wasn't understanding the ATC, the ATC talked even faster.

The counter argument is that maybe JFK, being a major international airport, should make an effort to have controllers who understand that some pilots don't find it easy to understand high-speed New York speech. It is very parochial for US airports to think everyone in the world can understand JFK controllers. Imagine what it's like for US pilots at a Chinese or Japanese airport - or perhaps French or Spanish-speaking airports.

While being able to speak English well abroad is very important what is almost more important is sticking to ICAO phraseology like the safety of the flight depends on it. JFK controllers don't exactly stick to the ICAO script and that is problematic for pilots from other countries operating in the US. Just like it is a problem when you don't use ICAO perfectly when you operate in China. They are working on a script and you if you say something off script / non ICAO - it is going to be a problem.

I landed into O’Hare this morning which is much the same as JFK, Ground and Ramp are two separate entities and one has to coordinate between two frequencies (Ground & Ramp) to access the Ramp. Heavy traffic congested frequencies added with fast and heavy American accents and attitudes to boot always make for a tense experience and reduced safety margins. Why on earth can’t Ground and Ramp work together as one team as in most international airports is beyond me.

If the ramp indeed cleared them "VIA HOTEL INTO RAMP" (17:30) then we can understand why they wanted to go via hotel and not 4L. They were getting conflicting instructions from the ground controller and ramp.

It's mind blowing that there isn't a computer program that queues the planes and lets the air traffic control know what stage in the system a plane is. Everyone keeps saying how safety conscious aerospace is but the more i learn about it, the more i feel like no one thinks to question things that don't work well.

I was once deadheading on an Air France flight to Heathrow. At TOPD the English controllers gave a complicated bunch of descent,speed and holding instructions which bamboozled the French pilots. After some tense exchanges the controller threatened to send them back to French airspace if they couldn't get it right. I knew exactly what the controller wanted so asked the captain if he wanted me to do the radio, which he was grateful for. English ATC saw the funny side as a native speaker came on the radio and off to Heathrow we went. As for JFK, for those of us who don't operate there regularly its often not easy, even for us native speakers.

I think that JFK ground controller should have said (left on G, ENTER RUNWAY 4L, hold short F) however, he just said 4L with no details that they should actually enter and hold short in the runway and this is not a usual preceder to wait while your are holding in the runway. In addition, in all airports there are intersections to taxiways or runways called A5 or B7..etc, so maybe they were just looking visually or on their charts for an intersection or a taxiway called 4L. As an international pilots they should have easily understood the first transmit, but in my opinion the controller could have just explained (ENTER RUNWAY 4L) in the second transmit to let them actually understand that they should go and enter the runway.

Hi Kelsey. I am a Falcon 50 and Falcon 900 pilot and a retired air traffic controller. I have commented before on your channel so I hope you remember me. This is the first time I have ever heard you say something that is completely wrong. I was a controller for 35 years. I worked 3 different towers, including JFK, and I was in the New York Center where I worked the KZNY oceanic area. There is not a single tower where ramp control is “sitting next to the ground controller” in the USA. Ground, local ( called tower on the frequency) and clearance delivery are in the tower, which is usually an FAA facility. Ramp control is not staffed by controllers. They are airline or sometimes municipal employees in a separate facility located at the terminal building. At terminal 4 at JFK ramp control is run by the Port Authority, and they are physically located on the 7th floor of the 36 story tall tower structure. In your graphic, it is clearly visible sticking out about halfway up the tower. They are notorious for poor planning of ramp traffic. At many airports you will see what looks like a small tower cab on the roof of a pier or finger where the gates are. There is usually little to no communication between the tower and the ramp at most airports. Every airport is a little different. Ramp areas are “non movement areas”. The ground controller taxis the plane to whichever ramp, and the pilot calls ramp control upon leaving the movement area for gate assignment and as some places which taxi lane to use. Taxiways are controlled by ground on the movement area, and taxi lanes are not controlled by ground because they are in the non movement area. Most control towers have a poor to no view of the various ramps and would be a terrible place for ramp control. I don’t know why you would think that they would be up there. At DFW for example, they have 2 FAA towers. An east and a west tower. They are both more than a mile from the ramp areas. Look closely at the terminal and you will see several ramp control cabs on the roof of the terminal buildings at the gate areas. As was pointed out by someone else in the comments, JFK evolved over time. The passenger terminals are in a central circle surrounded by perimeter taxiways. Taxiways alpha and bravo. When I first started working JFK tower, I was told by my instructors to keep the perimeters clear so as not to gridlock the airport. The controller in your video wanted the plane to wait for his gate on Runway 4L for this reason. Ground clearly “owned” the runway, and any inactive runway is available as a taxiway. KBOS does this all the time as an example. I appreciate the apprehension instilled in you by a mentor you had, and you would be wise to verify the instruction before proceeding onto the runway, but I think that pilot wasn’t exactly right about the use of the runway for taxing or holding either. Let me give you some inside information about a nationwide ATC procedure designed to prevent active runway incursions and any confusion among controllers as to which runway is active and which is not. The FAA implemented a policy where each tower would make runway ownership strips. The controller who has the strip in their strip bay owns the runway. If a controller does not own a particular runway, that controller has to get permission from the controller who owns it to cross or use that runway. I also don’t understand why you think JFK is not “fixing” its deficiencies. There is a massive construction project just getting started. Terminal 3 was torn down, opening up more ramp space for bi directional traffic in the alleyways around terminal 4. Terminal 1 and 2 is undergoing major renovations and there may be a plan to tear down terminal 2 and replace it with a new terminal east of the present terminal so that there would be a 2 way alleyway for terminal 1. In the next few years there will be a lot of changes. I just wanted to put this information out there. The other 90% of what you said is spot on. I have been doing a lot of flying in the Caribbean, and I just completed my first flight in Europe. I flew 4 legs in Europe in or over 6 different countries, so I can appreciate what you were saying, especially concerning briefing risk factors. Interesting being the “foreign” pilot on the frequency. The preverbal shoe on the other foot.

Its times like this that i recall how much I miss Kennedy Steve.

Kelsey's way of describing how things go wonky is so cool.