The SPX 90 was definitively one of the best in this particular type of algorithm. The limited bandwidth of the SPX give it a smooth tone with guitars, and it really suit the pitch effect. I also enjoy the sounds and texture of the Soundtoys MicroShift. Cheer from Canada.
Actually I really like the SPX 90 how it preserved the drier blended sound on your bottom E string, although a lack of mids, a bit dark, which you would need to compensate for, and a bit glassy but still nice in the highs on the first clean section. Just edited my previous post after a re-listen SPX90 on dirty had a great natural sound. SPX 90 FTW!
Very much appreciated!!! I’ve been on the tone hunt for micro pitch/detune for the last 2 weeks. You had a bunch that didn’t even know existed until now!! The best buddy!! Keep up the killer content!! Chuggs buddy!!!
Excellent video, as always. Giving us the material to make our own decision, that's why your YT channel ROCKS! For me for pitch, the SPX90 and the TC Electronic G-Force (my ears these two sound almost identical - H9 the widest and biggest vibe) Detune stand out clear and loud. I've a 30-year-old wonderful TCE G-Major, and it may be only a $150 rack unit, the detune, and dual delay are fantastic, in stereo they're HUGE...as they say of last clue in Jeopardy -- BRING IT ON! ;)
As A Fractal Axe3 and FM3 owner it made me happy to see how well they held ground in this. Also Leon thanks for all you do for the fractal community, I hear your name tossed around regularly on how to learn and a great info source! I do agree with the spx-90 love I see below, That was always a great unit, and still is!
One of my fav effects. Great stuff. Man, that is such a cool effect. I always wanted to get that doubled or slightly detuned effect without modulation Steve Vai gets for instance playing lead kn crossroads, etc. EVH used it too, etc. One of the beat tones I've heard live with it believe it or not was Motley Crue live on the song Dr Feelgood. Mick Mars must have had some killer effects because it sounded huge. Maybe it was being done by the FOH guy too, but whatever it was it sounded like a wall of sound with him droning on the low E . Man, that FM3 is just killer. The amp models and the effects are stellar. I can see why it's what you use live. That company has it figured out. I wondered years ago working in the IT field how long it would be before chips were powerful enough to make it so close to unreal amp and real effects and I think that time is here for sure. Great video sir. Thanks as always for sharing all this wonderfully useful stuff for us more mortal guitarists my brother. 🤣🤟💖🤟💖🤟
Awesome clean demo, Leon! Thanks! I was just confirmed that the SPX90 is the only way to go. I have 6 of them - so nice confirmation. And I've used the Microshift plugin a lot as well - that actually sound VERY similar to the SPX90. Those two are definitely my favourites. I use stereo detune all the time for that Mike Stern sound.
I'm so glad I got an SPX 90 when I had the chance (I have to thank you in part for that.. So thanks!). How are you using the effects? Like regular inserts or sends? Again, thanks for all the videos, man! Seriously!
Holy...! What a piece of candy for sugar addict, Leon you outdid yourself! Is this gonna become a series..? :) next: chorus, delay, reverb... This needs to happen more. So far all of the shootouts have been very useful. You're definitely the worst kind of enabler. For example I recently learned of that Samson mixer and thought it might be handy, and surprise surprise, saw one on sale locally and then Leon uploads a video having it in the rack. This is becoming too much of a coincidence. Weird thing I noticed while playing with SPX90, the Pitch C preset loses volume in cycles. Ever noticed? Wondering if it's because I don't run it stereo out atm, at first thought it was breaking down. Levels seem to be a problem with these units as well, can't boost them above unity, but having swoosh loses volume. Do you just keep everything on and in the chain or do you have any clever solutions? That said, SPX90 with detune into MPX1 reverbs and delays is sick. Juicy combo. I always thought Eclipse was too clinical sounding for my taste, but I'm starting to understand why people favor it for detunes. It has the clarity when you don't want that juiciness, like with low notes on high gain. The clarity and brightness really does its job there. SPX90 is not as high fidelity, but it has a juicy mojo to the tone. Interestingly enough I don't favor SPX90 on the cleans as much as on distortion, even though you'd think the gooiness was better fit for clean than distortion. The gooiness is fine as a standalone effect, but when you start to stack up effects, the way Eventide stays out of the way and clear helps so much. If Eclipse was spot on H3000 or like a grand cheaper than it is, it would be a serious consideration for me. Actually the Intellifex was surprisingly close to Eventide in spirit, maybe taking some of the shizzle with EQ would make it sound more refined and clean like Eventide does. And perhaps running dry parallel to control the punch more, Intellifex regularly hollows the sound. Intellifex XL might be able to help with the internal EQ. Outside Eclipse and its functionality, I gotta say I enjoyed the sound of Lexicons and SPX90. You know, as a vibe effect, they're more of a chorusy thing. Now I'm thinking that maybe putting an EQ block after the detune would help MPX1 to keep it less chorusy and gooey. I don't know if Eclipse only applies the detune effect to the higher frequencies or if it cuts some lows, but it kinda does meld around your top end rather than mess with the riffing and punch. This inspired so much to think about. A thing that's caught my attention multiple times is PCM81 having detune titled "Pitch Correction - VoxFix". Was it intended originally as a way to hide ("fix") bad vocals by detuning so you can't quite tell it's off the note? This video was definitely worth coffee time. Happy 1st of May, the year's biggest hangover day in Finland, at least for students, and keep on racking!
There's a lot going on in his video!! One of the things when comparing all these different units that I'm hearing is the " Inherent Sound " of each unit. By that I mean the overall bass mid and treble response of each unit and how it affects the actual pitch detune. Great Video Leon!!
Great comparison video Leon. I think the Eclipse was best, but others were very similar in sound. I appreciate what you do, because choosing gear to purchase can be overwhelming. Comparisons like this makes it easier to decide on a gear purchase. Thank you
This is gonna be so epic. Thx for doin it. I’d be pissed if I had to sit thru this Vid and it wasn’t you playing. And I would sit thru it. 3 different eventides on detune and I’m gonna be all in everytime.
I liked the SPX-90 and the PCM81 best, they sounded "neutral", so they sounded balanced clean but somewhat muddy distorted, but hold up better than the others. Almost all the others sounded bright and/or thin, the worst being H9, which was too bright. Sounding bright is good for ethereal clean stereo sounds. Best compromise was the H3000, it was bright but not thin and not too ethereal and sounded good with distorted sound, as you mentioned. The Space Modulator hold up well to the more expensive hardware. The BBD320 was the worst distorted and the TC1210 was better but warbly, as you mentioned. Maybe with a little tweaking the 1210 could make it as a thick chorus or flanger. I've found out that chorus and flanger sound best before distortion and you had them after with a mixer. Maybe the mixer factor was the reason that I found, generally, all the units sounded undefined with distortion, like listening a prerecorded song from a speaker in the other end of the room instead of playing it yourself. Kudos for playing the same lick so many times! I, really, don't want to listen to detuned sounds for a while, ha, ha!!!
Ah yes, interesting subject, subtle pitch detune! Derryl Gabel turned me on to its use in Holdsworthian tones... Gabel’s patches for the Axe-Fx IIxl+ were quite ear opening for me. Cheers, Daniel
I prefer the sound of the Fractal FM3 and I own an Eventide Eclipse, PCM81, SPX90, A3, Dimension D and I've tried all the plugins. The Eventide H3000 Factory plugin has the best sounding microshift/detune in plugin land. I still prefer the sound of the Fractal because it's thicker and more liquid sounding. Which algorithm in the FM3 did you use for the detuning sound in this video Leon?
The stock "Dual Detune" on the FM3 with the same detune amounts as the other units. I think you'll appreciate this little nugget though. The Pitch block "Dual Chromatic" effect type offers the ability to expand the "Dual Detune" sounds since it offers different pitch tracking parameters. This opens up the ability to mimic units like the SPX or Eventide. A buddy measured my hardware units and we matched the Fractal pitch blocks to them. -SPX90 Pitch Change C. Pitch tracking at 1.7 and pitch delays of 11.7ms. -H3000 Microshift preset #231 - tracking at 0.88 with pitch delays of 0ms and 25.1ms. -H3000 Microshift #519 - tracking at 10 with 18ms and 23.1ms pitch delays. It's nice being able to impart some of the character/shortcomings of those old units into newer tech.
@@LeonTodd That is so awesome Leon! Thank you very much for sharing that! I have copy and pasted it into a document so I can give that a try myself! Much gratitude to you and your buddy for doing the analytic groundwork. I trust it's bang-on knowing your ears! Now, all that's left is getting the Fractal to mimic the sound of the TC electronic 2290 digital delay, haha! If you guys end up doing that, you can invite John Petrucci and The Edge over to your house to celebrate!
For cleans, my faves were the SPX90, the FM3, and the Intellifex. (No surprise there; I had an Intellifex for about a decade.) For dirt, my faves were the Intellifex and the A3... but honestly, I'd take a TC Mimiq over any of them for dirty sounds.
The FM3 sounded great on the dirty sounds....the Eventides and some of the others had a hollow,phasey sort of sound....I was thinking of buying the Micropitch,but After this,I think my AxeFXIII is fine for detuning...I have been curious to hear the TC Electronic Brainwave as well....it has a detune function on it...anyway,great video...I love pitch Detune,so getting to hear all these units was great..
Wait, what? Is that R2D2? 0:14 Ah, it’s just the rack full of blinking lights! The H9 detune sounded more pronounced in the clean & dirty tones to my ears. The FM3 is the bargain here. The plugins can keep up though! All great choices, can’t go wrong with any of them if set right.👍
Like a lot of people, I think the SPX was great, and then the Lexicon. Those units bit the dust years ago, may have to revisit that, but currently have the Eclipse, which I thought came in third on the cleans.
Quite interesting. Both Eventides (H9 and MicroPitch) have a very wide stereo field, certainly some phase shifting going on. I think it sounds artificial. Much prefer the other which are more subtle. The SPX-90 sounds phenomenal. So did the Soundtoys.
second! a thankless task, but you do the legwork so we don't have to! i agree about the top 3. all very similar and all great. there were a couple that didn't seem to have much of a stereo image and i wonder if the voices hadn't been panned, but great to hear them all. (i skipped through and listened to a couple of seconds of each)
The spx 90 sounds awsome with the clear signal The intellifex keeps the integrity of your dry signal on the dirty channel but has less stereo image than the eclipse
I like the the Eclipse, as well as the FM3. I also liked the 1210 because it was different... but overall, they’re all good and I could live with any of them.
At the end, right before 19:05, closing my eyes, couldn't really hear much of a difference at all. Nice comparison video. I don't know if it is RU-vid or not, but the only time I hear major differences is when the distortion( heavier sounds) kicks in. That goes for mostly any type of comparison video amp, speaker etc. Maybe it's my setup?
Boss PS6. The most versatile pedal I’ve had on my cover band gig board for years. The Detune is pretty ok on the PS6. People make the mistake of not having enough raw guitar mix with the Detune. For live use anyway 🤘
On the dirt, really liked the SPX90 but that may have been the overall EQ of the sound more than anything. On the flip side I just hated what the Lexicons did to the sound, which surprised me because their reverbs and delays are so excellent. Was also shocked how great the Microshift plug in was on both sounds. Eclipse I agree with you was great on the dirt but I didn’t care for it on the clean. But that may be more about what I want on clean sounds. The Eclipse was too transparent and I liked the more in your face effects from the cheaper units, particularly the Intellifex. The strange non-uniform panning of the effect on the Eventide pedals was not for me and I thought it was strange that both their pedals did that where the Eclipse didn’t.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I noticed the sounds I like on the clean tones did not translate to the dirty stuff and vice versa. I like the exaggerated pitch shift for clean and a more subtle one for my grime.
Watched it nonstop all the way through. HELP! 🦻 😁 Loved the Eclipse, and PCM 81 clean, did not dig a lot of the "dirty" stuff. Sounded a bit mosquitoeee, maybe it's my speakers, or maybe my ears just suck... Cheers Brohiem 🍻
On cleans the spx the eclipse and the microshift skinned the best to my ears but I really liked the 1210 too but definitely a greasier sound. On the dirty sound the spx and the eclipse and microshift again. The others had a mostly nasally thing and an overly washy thing happening. The FM3 does a really great job for both. Must be based on the eventide it sounds so similar. Oh and N.B. That BBD is noisy as hell on the clean
would you say with an Axe FX 3 and the capo pitch block that lets you define that it’s even worth buying a baritone for D standard and D flat standard stuff or you think it can pretty much get it done? seems to work good enough from what I can tell but i’m not really too informed
One of the fun things you can do with the pitch change is increase the delay time up to like 500 milliseconds. Big Michael Thompson vibes there, although it doesn't have the H3000 magic.
I see you're also a card holding member of the Michael Thompson fan club. Preset 519 on the H300! I'm about to do redo this video now that I have an H3000 - I'll probably just do SPX/H3000/Fractal/H9 and a few others though
I would say the SPX90 is “THE” sound, and also liked the KT SDE remake and FM3 on clean. Surprisingly disappointed by the H9 and Eclipse, and I have both...the first one being too warbly and “processed” the other being the opposite. I generally find that those that don’t seem to work on the clean tone actually do work on the distortion and vice versa, but there’s so many that it’s really personal preference. Now off to Reverb for an SPX...
I had some of them. The SPX90 sound nice but is sooooo noisy in real life. Had it fully recapped but it didn't help. I'm going for the Eventide Micropitch!
Wow, the Eclipse slays the H9 and MPD so bad it's not even funny :-O The FM3 is a nice surprise as well. There's a reason I use SPX900 for the cleans and Eclipse for the dirt and this video shows it perfectly.
SPX and Eventide - Clean GeForce - Overdriven. The dirt shift patches were too saturated tbh but I get you were trying to show the full colour of each. Satriani and Vai used these effects early 90's alot. The best ever micropitch tone I ever heard on an entire album was Joe's Time Machine side 2 live disc, just makes the hairs stand up from the get go. Vai's P&W album was chocker with this stuff, "The Animal" track has possibly the best guitar tone and MP effect in existence.
Salut 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Le yamaha SPX 90 est vraiment fantastique . Comment faites vous pour avoir un trés bon son sans souffle ni parasites ???? Il manque le BEST , Fulltone TERC That 80's Rack Chorus Tri Stereo Chorus.
In a blind test you could easily have convinced me that Yamaha was from the top effects company while all the Eventide sounds were from cheap 80's pedals. At least on the clean.
Please somebody ReCreate the Yamaha SPX 90II " Pitch Change C " in-a-pedal, ( while you're at it ) a Lexicon Reverb Pedal would be nice too. Bring back the Classics. Nice comparison. oNe LovE from NYC
Dude... nothing beats a Lexi 80-81... but that spx90 blew everyone under it away.... as far as pitch detune goes... If you want that sweet sound.... its only ever going to come from an Eventide... good vid my friend!
Clean sounds: The eventide H9 sounds much wider and fuller than the SPX 90 and all others. The Eventide Eclipse sounds narrow in comparison. So the lexicon units. H9 is legendary. I recently bought two of them. The tc 1210 is also narrow. Is your setting correct? I have heard a much wider sound of it somewhere else. I was surprised of the Clark copy of the roland chorus. Why does the H9 pitch sounds so much better than all others (with exception of the FM3)?! I don't understand it. Crazy. I liked the valhalla modulation. Different than the others because of the movement. But with an exeptional clear, defined spartial image.
The rack units sounded the best to me, there is a reason they are regarded classics. Having said that I didn't really care for the Lexicon units when compared to the others which surprised me. The pedals to me sounded flat. SPX90 for the win.
The Soundtoys MicroShift was surprisingly good. Do you hear any differences listening to the "in the room" sound of the effects, coming out of a real cab as you play, vs what you hear when you record a wet guitar track?
spx90 is amazing! happy to have one of them (the 990 but basically it is the same machine). Some effects seems mono, am i wrong? for example the pcm81. ...
I hate to say it,but SPX90 is sort of a winner-it gives the greatest stereo depth and animation to the sound without taking to much from distortion character.I guess it is classic for a good reason.
I liked the SPX 90 and the intelli on the cleans, they sounded warmer and better soundstage, but im not really a microshift/chorus guy. Dirty; the modern units sounded tighter as you mentioned, I think that's why I prefer my G Major over my MPX-1 on most high gain when im using verb. Great vid :) Can you do a delay and a Verb shoot out please?
Wrong comparison. You are comparing CHORUSING and DETUNING. Those are two completely different things. One is sweeping delay time, making it longer and shorter which translates in pitch continuosly going sharp and flat, the other keeps time steady and pitch steady... no changes whatsoever at all.. One could make them similar sweeping the pitches in detuning with an LFO... but you don't do that. The PCM, MPX... those are pitch correction algorithms and should NEVER be used for detuning as the pitch detector is there to avoid that all the way. The PCM/MPX detuning is MUCH better than that as there is no detuning at all in your choices. Listen carefully to how detune splits the stereo panorama way wider than any chorus, even in those Eventide pedals which don't sound nice at all. very poor actually. Once on Eclipse... the story changes. But the point is that detune works on a different principle and makes the stereo spread much wider and stronger. In general the psycho-acoustics limitations of the human ear want less to perceive a bigger and wider stereophonic field. The more delays you add above 2, the less the ear will perceive in terms of stereo spread as time shifting overlaps, nulling the precedence efx by which the ear knows location of sound. Two delays is all you need when you want huge spread...IF the box has the right hardware to make them sound good. Then there are a few techniques to program those 2 delays... particularly if they are detuners rather than delays. Long subject to talk about...
