I just wanted to acknowledge that there are many other good planar IEMs, and I would love to include the P1 Max and Timeless AE and others in a more analytic comparison. You have to draw the line somewhere because there are also new ones every week, which is awesome, but leads to challenges when creating videos.
Like that take on Planars. But for me all of them seems to forward in pinna region. Andrew have you heard the YanYin Aladdin? I would be interested in how you perceive them. They have a smooth pinna region and are also otherwise well tuned as it seems from graphs.
Hello, do you know if the S12 pro has the same tuning as the regular S12? A lot of reviewers said that they are the same, just different cable and color, but some said that the tuning is different.
You nailed the fit issue I had with the timeless. The treble sounded really weird to me even in comparison to the s12 and the fit is just not it for me. Always felt like it was never in my ear correctly
I may have different shaped ears, but the Timeless fit better in my ears than any of the others. The circular design fits perfect and it wedges in really tight. The shape of the others (the typical IEM shape) tend to come loose and fall out.
I had the same fit issue with the Timeless and I managed to resolve the problem with the double flange tips from spinfit. I still ended up preferring the Raptgo Hook over the Timeless. The Hook-x has ended up being my favorite IEM under $500.
The diokos were absolutely perfect for me. I dig the jewelry vibe, the fit and finish are perfect in my ears (I added Sedna xelastec tips) and the sound is exactly what I wanted. I like the grado sparkle, so their slightly bright nature is right up my alley. Never fatiguing to me at all, even with hours and hours in my ears. They do nothing wrong for my tastes in an iem. Also they're like $90. Bananas. Which is weird because my hearing is still ridiculously good, with no loss in the upper. I guess I just like that dazzle.
@@jb678901 what? That's a really weird simile. They look nice to me (and I generally wear very understated clothes), they're sapphire glass so they're nice to touch. I don't understand why the headphone community in particular is so obsessed with everything being black or grey
@@lordlopes2424 agreed, it's okay with a decent headphone jack but really does want an amp. A good usb-c dongle can almost get there, but the only planar I've come across that really doesn't mind a plain headphone jack is the kz pr1
I got the Timeless last year, and they are full stop the best things i ever shoved in my ear. I get around the fit issue, by replacing the tips with Comply Foam T-500 ear tips. They are solid in my ear, with those. The biggest problem I have is certain songs with high frequency female choirs, the the right ear on the Timeless starts to get shouty/distort. Best example if anyone with a Timeless wants to compare: Destiny 2 (Original Soundtrack) - View From Orbit @ the 52 sec mark. It's fringe case, not a regular thing. Maybe mine are defective, Maybe i just need to turn down the volume, while i don't go so loud my ears hurt, i should being turning down my music more.
...which is why I have ordered the PR1 HiFi as my second planar set to the S12. It has its own (smaller) in house driver and requires less power. We shall see.
I'm really new into this IEM world and I would love to try a new flavor, DD is fun but there are so many other choices and configurations out there. I'm finding planars interesting, can't wait to try the new KZ PR2. $+100 is a little bit too much for me lol
One thing people seldom like to talk about Planar Drive IEM is exactly that Planar definition and quick response , often times those who try to max these Plannar character yield better defining sound but at the cost of making the Music fragmented instead of a single harmonic flow of audio energy , I test all the mentioned and then also the KZ PR1 PRO , the TinHifi P1 Max , and in the end I decide to get the Zeitan Wu Heyday edition Another thing that's seem universal with all these Planar IEM is the driving unit , you really need some juice to drive them to perform , at least on a balanced output out of a quality dongle DAC , and some of them seems to be quite affected by the tip attached while Cables seems doing not much of a difference
Shame you couldn't fit the TINHIFI-P1-MAX with these as it has quite a different tunning compared to most. Totally understand you couldn't fit in everything.
I am running my S12 pro running on good desktop amplifiers like Aune X7S XLR output, now it has real sub bass and dynamics; mids sound fuller and not a V shaped IEM anymore and the treble is much better controlled and not sibilant anymore. On dongle DAC or portables like my fiio E10K or ibasso DC03 Pro it sounds anemic and unnaturally bright but on a much more powerful portable amp like my chord mojo it really starts unleashing its true potential and could probably reach kilobuck IEM level performance on good enough amp. I strongly recommend using large third party tips though like spinfit CP500 or accoustone aet06(my current tips for this, it is double flange and gives much better seal and sub bass extension. It didnt pair well with my topping L30II amp(lacking resolution, sub bass and dynamics, timbre is unnaturally dry and instrument separation is lacking compared to aune) though but thats probably because its an inferior headphone amp compared to aune X7S. I dont even listen to music very loud and my volume wheel stays at 8'0 Clock on the Aune but there is such a tremendous difference when running this thing on actually good source gear. I have never seen such scaling behaviour on my previous moondrop and final audio IEMs so this one is special I guess. I heard another reviewer on youtube( The honest audiophile ) mention this scaling behavior with S12 before and back then I refused to believe IEM could scale with better quality desktop amplifiers, but it seems true, atleast for these IEM and after witnessing such scaling behaviour I got rid of my 7Hz timeless and blessing 2. My setup- imgur.com/a/t6ssuxX
Still waiting for the next generation single planar driver IEM. Priced around $500 and a true TOTL giant killer. I would imagine the OEM manufacturer of all these off the shelf drivers is working on a 2.0 version as we speak/type.
@@lain2236ad it will be just give it time for the planars to develop. I heard the audeze iems were wonky tuned and not technical. I have no experience so cannot judge
I had the timeless fit problem with them falling off my ears, my issue was that I was using medium tips and I was inserting them too deep, I switched to larger tips with a more sensible insertion depth and they don't slide off anymore!
@@Imagine_Breaker No apologies necessary. Unfortunately, it's my only language. My family of four speaks an average of 3.75 languages. No guessing necessary as to who brought down the family's average.
Wow, what variety of different reviews. Shame you didn't try the Moondrops because they are the only brand that have a history in making planars. My Stellaris are in the post so I hope the evaluation from 10 plus reviews pays off. Did the the same for my lcd2 classic and could not be happier. Have to give some credit to the amp with burr brown dac.
I've only owned the S12's, and to my ears the bass was horrid. I've since moved up to the Fiio Fh5s, and immediately they restored the resolution and tonality of bass tones. Definitely the set competes at it's price range, The treble was shouty too, but not just at where it peaks (I eq'd those) in the sonic reproduction itself. Definitely no better than their price imo.
Interesting, I have both of these sets myself and enjoy both. I would put the FH5S ahead though, mostly for its tuning. There is something about the Fh5S, even when I compared to my Focal Utopia that I still was pulled towards. The open back nature, its Be-coated driver is incredible for bass. Also, while vivid, the FH5S balanced armatures are never harsh, something the S12 skirts with its more incisive tuning. That said I feel the S12 can compete, but requires a really good seal. I used double flanges on the S12 and it was then the bass came into its own and is of its own quality. The S12 driver overall excellent and is the same as in the Wu and Rapto Hook-X. The driver itself punches way above its price class, and providing the tuning and fit works these IEMs have really high value.
The sound of drum kit is completely unnatural on S12. Cymbals are too loud and piercing and drums are sounding too strained. Planars are kind of known of their flexibility with EQ, but I must say I had no luck in that direction. With EQ tonality becomes agreeable, but technicalities are taking a hit. Sound became smoother, but grainy. And drums still sound strained. It seems to me that planars just cannot reproduce timbre neither correctly nor pleasantly.
@@n0xt It's the same driver, the only different planar drivers that came out on the market were those from KZ, CCA and Kinera. Kinera is not exactly a planar, it's a chimera based on the structure of a dynamic and a planar driver.
@@AlexB-dl5ou Akros says in his Talos review that the Talos and Dioko have the same driver, different from the driver used in the Timeless, P1 Max and S12. HBB says that the Timeless, S12, Hook-x and Zetian Wu have the same driver, and Talos and Dioko have the same driver (different from Timeless family). I scrolled through Hi-Fri's post from this year and can't see him opening any planars beside KZ PR1 and P1 Max. I wouldn't be surprised if all of them (supposedly beside KZ) use drivers from the same family, but they don't seem to all be exactly identical.
Always curious about planar IEMs but I don't know if I can find myself passing up wireless & ANC, all that.. If there were more (reputable) resources on Bluetooth wires, I'd definitely consider that route despite the lack of ANC but it feels like a total opaque mess of things due to how niche a market segment it is.
I think the upcoming TWS from Moondrop is pretty interesting because it has plenty of different EQs to adjust the tuning. Maybe you'd be interested in looking into that. Still, I think at the moment wireless audio techs haven't caught up with the IEM techs in terms of providing the more 'fussy' listeners in technicalities or tonalities which they are looking for. They're getting there, though I'm sure of that. I've heard some good things about the newer Galaxy Buds Pro and Airpods Pro, which are more or less have the same price tag as these planar IEMs.
I am using a set of modded KZ AZ09 Pro's (BT5.2 Qualcomm QCC3040 chipset, with CVC, TWS, and 6.5 hrs on earhooks + 42 hours with case). Use them with my S12's in Power Mode, which lets the S12's really shine. Power Mode (3 successive cicks to the left earhook button) does take the battery down by 15% to around 5.5 hours. Decent call quality too. I use them at the office and for the home office, where I use FLAC or stream from PC and transmit with a FiiO BTA30Pro (in TX mode...the BTA30Pro also has RX and DAC modes) in AptX. Good connectivity and LOW FLOOR noise...voila. The AZ09 Pro's cost me a measly $28 (w/delivery incl) on AliEx in early 2022. Modding was easy...a sharp razor to shave away 2-3 mm from the leading edge of the silicone-rubber QDC (C-pin) shroud to reveal more pin length, providing a clean and secure B-Pin coupling. Worked like a charm and has been a daily driver for close to a year.
Picked up the Z12 recently and I honestly kinda love it for what it is. Definitely a fun pair. Makes electronic music super engaging, and adds some much needed bottom end to some of the otherwise thin sounding metal I listen to. I came from the world of multi-thousand watt car audio systems and am very much a bass-head, though I had mostly retrained my brain to genuinely enjoy more balanced sound when I switched to the world of headphones and IEMs. The Z12 represents a little bit of a relapse for me, but I'm not mad about it lol.
Took one look at the frequency response of the Stellaris and decided not to listen to them? If we all adopted that attitude then why do we need to watch any of your reviews when we all can just look at graphs? Seriously, that was a poor attitude.
My impressions of the Dioko is condensed to: Little bit of subbass, NO midbass, NO lower mids, and very energetic in the upper ranges. It's super imbalanced. It's nice and detailed in the upper mids and trebs but it's not pleasant to listen to when it feels like the lower half of the music is missing.. If they weren't shipped from the other side of the world i would have returned them. This made me a bit unsure of the whole planar thing since the Dioko was the first planar iem i ever tried. However since there was so much talk about the Timeless i had to see what it was all about. The Timeless AE was just released when i decided to get it so i ordered that and oh boy. Complete other world. That and the Arya are my go-to IEMs right now. Absolutely fantastic.
For me it's S12 OG > Timeless OG = Wu = PMV PP > P1 Max > Dioko > Stellaris. I wish the Timeless is as resolving as S12.. it's too bad that S12's treble is hotter than some other planars though, if they could tame the treble a bit, I'd think they're going to be even more popular than Timeless at a cheaper price point.
I've replaced the inner foam of the Dioko nozzle with a slightly tighter one. And also replace the eartips with Azla SednaEarfit Light Standard. And the results are quite satisfactory. Mid and upper treble no longer feel intense. And free of simbilance and shouty.
Personally, by far the best planar IEM I tried is the P1 Max, which is funny because it's also one of the cheapest ones. Just a great, warm neutral tuning with good enough tech.
The fact that Zeos' change to the S12 was to add a bass shelf, at least to my ears, is completely unhinged. Over time I have been disappointed by my S12 because it is way too V-shaped to me. Both too much bass and treble, and honestly on most songs it's the bass that is obnoxious. I am really interested in a more "neutral" planar or other iem around $200
I mean, considering he's the guy who ruined the Drop/Sennheiser 8XX (though he will insist that no, really bro if you buy the dekoni pads I shill it totally fixes them) we should just consider ourselves lucky they're still listenable.
I found that with the Diokos you need to roll the tips because the stock ones, though nice, are too short. I have used both Sedna Xlastics and Moondrop Springs which are taller than the stock ones and that really helped them (besides the use and getting accustomed to the sound) get rid of that glassiness at the top.
Great range and comparisons. I didn't like the s12, a bit too clinical, not so inspiring. I've grown to love the sound of the 7hz Timeless, yes it can get a bit stuck with complex classical but it's so much fun and makes me smile with most genres. And it fits my ears very well. That's why audio is fun, it's rewarding and also down to individual preferences, shapes, kit etc! And I got the ie600 which when I found the right tips, sound sublime, especially in areas where the 7hz got a bit lost. The two of them complement each other nicely, for me 🙂
Maybe it’s because I’ve spent so much time in single DD land with the Starfields, but I just couldn’t bear the treble on the Z12s. I wouldn’t call it sibilant, but definitely “crunchy” or “sparkly" well outside of my tolerance. The best way I could describe it was that the treble sounded to me how a crinkled up ball of aluminum foil looks.
I recommend autoeq/wavelet. Was disappointed with the bass boost and muddied mids (or what i perceived to be it) even if the treble was never a problem for me (I'm nearly 30). That eq fixed these iems for me. Over time my brain burned in too and I've grown to like them a lot. Now the bass is rich and textured but not overdone.
Kz pr2 should be there, its more resolving then Dioko, but admittedly needs a lot of things to sound good, just out of the box on a normal dongle dac with stock cable and tips its no good at all. If it has everything it needs, its more natural and engaging then some of these, and really a great earphone at a very low price.
Sharp treble and 'glassy sheen' - words I love to hear as someone that listens to jazz. I actually love the tuning of the original moon drop chu too. Dioko on order.
I own the Timeless and the S12 andi know what you mean about the fit. If the Timeless wouldn't move around after a while, it would stomp on A LOT definitely. If I find those perfect tips, it'll be game over for me or I'll have to spend twice as much to hands' down beat it...any suggestions on what beats it out right?
I replaced the stock tips with the AZLA Xelastec. I absolutely love them. The fit is perfect. They don't move around and if you adjust it the seal corrects itself almost instantly. The only downside is I had to EQ it or else the treble was too harsh.
@@Njinx_ Yep, sportin' those VERY tips also. I love 'em right after I wash them squeaky clean. Then they don't hold as well, but they are very durable. 👍 Both on my S12 and Timeless..I believe our experience is the same
I write as someone who has only just discovered the quality and value of the new Chi-fi iems available today. You keep saying 'it's only words', and yet you continue to use nothing but 'words'....so many words and yet I am no wiser. You also keep saying they might 'not be for you' but how do I know? I can only tell if something is good or not if I listen to it. I can only tell if something is 'for me' if I listen to it. However in the UK we have no way of listening before we buy....so we depend on reviewers giving us solid guidance...yet every iem you recommend here had issues: falling out, needing to be eq'd, too brittle, glassy or brash etc etc...sorry just words...so ultimately none of these sound appealing or 'right for me'. The other thing I notice is the range of prices...now generally, not in all cases obviously, one would expect the more expensive iems to sound somewhat better than the cheaper/budget ones and yet you compare them as if they were all the same price.....I do not expect a £16 iem to sound anywhere as good as a £160 one but I would love to know which £16 iem IS the best or which £160 iem is best and then have you compare them...what you have appeared to do in this video, at least as far as I am concerned....is confuse me no end....I also appreciate the challenge you face when creating new videos...Here is my question..is it worth paying more than £50 for an iem and why? Nobody on any youtube video has convinced me that it is because there are always 1. Only words, 2. Too many ifs, buts and what ifs 3. Too many Personal likes and dislikes (we are not all able to purchase dozens of iems just to find out).
Same with fitment issues; I ended up selling mine because of that. It's not an odd shape or anything, but I just couldn't wear them for more than ~1 hour at a time. Sounds fantastic though!
Hello Dear Friends !!!!!!!! Can open back IEMs (especially Raptgo Hook x HBB) be SoundStagy and build Images like Sundara or like HarmonicDyne Zeus ? Thank You !!!!!!!!
I always have to really clean my ears before I use my Timeless. Even replaced the tips with some Spin Fits for a more secure fit and it hasn't really done much. The right one always moves after a few minutes. That's been my biggest complaint about em. Wish the stems were longer.
Thanks for the comparison. I've been eyeing off a few of these so this was insightful. I nearly pre-ordered the Dunu Talos based on aesthetics alone but couldn't justify the cost without knowing something about how they sound then saw a review and wasn't so keen. I assumed they'd be more bassy and that would explain the BA treble switch to balance the sound if you wanted. I was disappointed that's not the case and don't really have a reason to get them, which is a shame as I love how they look.
It's just really hard to beat Timeless if you don't mind EQing it imo. Using oratory1990's preset with less aggressive reduction in the air region it just sounds amazing.
@@sadseal8118 Which part of the mid did you not like? If it's the low-mid the EQ preset fixed it beautifully imo. Was also not a fan of how the low end bleeds into the mid but once I tried EQing it the result was much preferable than S12 for me.
I suppose it set the benchmark, for sure. Just the "unique" design and connectors make it less desirable for me. If only B-connectors...I could live with the design elements. IMHO.
When the human ear loosens its grip on an IEM it may be time to down tools and move onto the next set. Every ear is different though so one ear does not always speak for the other.
I've replaced the inner foam of the Dioko nozzle with a slightly tighter one. And also replace the eartips with Azla SednaEarfit Light Standard. And the results are quite satisfactory. Mid and upper treble no longer feel intense. And free of simbilant and shouty.
@@haberdasherrykr8886 yep, but the fun and enjoyment are great, especially when you get a bit different from one another - I mean not always bassy or mid or trebled focused, or Harman.
He got into a crazy kung fu fight with him once and Crin kicked him in the nuts. Crinacle insists it was a break in communication but Resolve insists he was fighting dirty cause he was losing. /s
Shame you missed P1 Max, my favourite out of the ones I've tried thus far, lovely neutral non-fatiguing sound, you would almost believe it was using a dynamic driver, I wasn't a big fan of the Zetian Wu, sounded too v-shaped for me with heightened bass and treble, if you like 'fun' tuning then I guess it's ok.
Im enjoying the raptgos bass dont hear much about it in this vid but its good for edm maybe even a little better than my fiio fh3. Get something with a bass boost button like the xduoo link 2 regular and its like really good shit
Any set you like and a qudelix 5k, All these reviews seem to forget that planars respond very well to EQ, So when you see comments like " a little bit more bass would be nice" or "to much treble" etc etc, Just add a fooking low shelf filter and have exactly how much bass you like, Wake up people and embrace EQ.
@@vianhoho19 I have them both (s12 going back soon) the pro is a tad less bright. Some tracks which are just on the other side of sibilant with the s12 are not with the s12 pro (at least in my library). The pro is a bit smoother in this region.
Since there are many planar user I'm going to ask this here. I've had both the s12 and the dioko and both had this weird "distortion" in the background plus a very annoying like "pop" on some instruments, for example you can clearly hear a drum going normally then go silent/very loud for a split second and then come back to normal. Is it just bad luck or is it a characteristic of the planar?
Helpful review, thanks for sharing. S12 was a bit sharp for me at times. I loved the 7hz Timeless - fun. But I had a similar problem with them working their way out of my ears. These days I'm loving the Simgot EA500lm and a more gentle Kiwi Melodies.
So like, in a sense, if you get the Dioko, knock off 2db from the upper mid range and treble, you get a $100 planar that is mostly neutral and has the technical capabilities of a typical planar?
Your ears are too easy if only the 7hz had fitting problems. The 7hz couldn't fit me at all and the rapto was way too shallow. It's awful to like iems and have tricky ears.
Very interesting that you and Precog have almost exactly opposite opinions about the S12 and the Dioko. An apt reminder that technical quality is highly subjective.
