@@ironbomb6753 it's not so much hate as I think we just aren't a profitable enough market. The number of people who engage with 40k products regularly can probably under 4 digits, so for them it's a lot of hassle for minimum gain. They might as well hike up the prices and sell their products to the whales while the rest of us learn the beauty of recasting
@@ironbomb6753 We're a captive market that is slavishly devoted to buying GW official. So they can fuck us however they like and we'll just throw money at them, hand over fist, and eagerly await the next round of contempt. That's changing now, SLOWLY, but still too close to the norm.
People said that about adeptus titanicus and thats still going strong. Theres certainly atleast 6-9 months of future content planed since we have a rulebnook and new minis confirmed. I wouldnt worry that much.
@@impguardwarhamer and with the legions imperialis package refresh and beta garmon supplemental set, once could argue that Titanicus is sort of living on symbiotically with LI w/r to model releases and datasheets. Especially since Titanicus is already a wholly contained and complete rules system, the models they design for Titanicus and LI pull double duty in a lot of cases. It's good use of internal resources.
Having played both Space Marine/Titan Legions and Epic Armageddon, EA is a vastly superior game system and it feels like a backward step for GW to revert back to the Space Marine rules. Rescaling the miniatures from 6mm to 8mm was also not a good move as it invalidated existing players armies who otherwise may have given this a go. EA in my eyes is a better game in every department except for one fairly minor thing. Did I have fun with Space Marine/Titan Legions in its time? Yes Would I play Space Marine/Titan Legions/Legions Imperialis over EA? No
@@stevenbaker3593 sorry buddy, my comment was towards OP saying he thinks he likes Epic Armageddon. I've watched the video and I just don't know why thinks that 🤔
Horus Heresy, and Legio Imperialis has proven to me that the older game systems were fun not because they were simple, or fast. But because despite how complicated they were at the end of the day complex enough to be detailed, to allow for stories to be told. Aka FUN. With 10th edition, it’s so hard to have fun because everyone just wants to win win win, but don’t ever want to tell a story. I dunno. Thats just me.
Simple systems are easy to learn, boring to master. Complex systems are hard to learn, fun to master. Wargames are supposed to make you feel like a commander moving real soldiers on a battlefield. Unfortunately this means they need to be somewhat complex, otherwise the immersion is ruined and you're just playing magic the gathering with soldier shaped tokens.
Interesting. I've just started the hobby in 10th, about 50/50 playing narrative crusade and conpetitive matched play. We've had some pretty fun story moments, one of my Cadre Fireblades is now famous for bringing down a chaos knight with a lucky grenade toss after his squad was wiped, for instance. What kind of story moments did the older, more complicated rules lend themselves to? You've got me curious if it'd be worth trying to get my group to try an older edition now!
They're talking about how complexities makes games take longer and adds a chaotic type of unpredictability, which allows players to create narratives throughout the game, rather than just having a quick round of a simple game.
Excellent video! The best thing about Legions Imperialis is how enthusiastic it's made me to get back into Space Marine/Titan Legions again! I love the old game. There is so much written material about the early Epic days that you can get wonderfully lost in it all. Crucially, the game - and GW in general - was less up its own arse back then.
The best thing about this game is the flexibility of the rules. My own group has basically revised about a half dozen rules or stat lines and added things like downed aircraft and ammo-racked tanks. Having all the stats and rules condensed into a single collection instead of spread out over multiple codex launches that are widely spaced over 3 years makes it easier to do house-tweaks.
I liked the video! You said the most important part that a lot of people seem to have missed: the game is fun even with its flaws. I am really hoping that with the GW tournament concluded they release some errata to fix some of the more obvious stuff! As for rules, I just use new recruit for unit stats that were released in expansions and if they deliver some good extra content (and I can actually buy it) I might purchase the book itsself
This is one of the better reviews I've seen/ read so far. You hit the right points and summarize it perfectly: it's flawed, but IT'S FUN. My personal biggest issue with LI is the strange way GW filled out their infantry sprues. If you want more tactical Marines, you're also getting more dreads and special weapons, which you're probably not going to use. Or the weird inclusion of just two assault Marines per sprue, meaning you need four sprues to get one full detachment. And don't get me started on the Astartes support sprue, or the SA infantry sprue. I've found that house rules are the go-to to make it less complicated/ unbalanced and more fun.
My hope is that they at least open it up to the great crusade and give us some of the weirder stuff as single-box armies. The Compliance of Murder and The Triumph at Ullanor would be amazing as campaign supplements.
@@michaelstevens5712 Great Crusade titanicus would of been perfect, man. Everyone has their best weapons and we'd have a game for every time period*. Horus Heresy, Great Crusade, modern 40K. *: Besides War in Heaven, Age of Strife, Unification Wars, Dark Age of Technology, Etc Etc
@@michaelstevens5712 I won't lie, I think this would be great. A campaign box of War of the Beast or the War in Heaven would be so cool because you have four unique factions you can run in Epic Scale with that. Aeldari and Necrons or the Orks and Mechanicus (The War of the Beast has Space Marines, but Mechanicus do play a semi-important role)
I have to say that I play Epic Armagueddon with 30k armies since 5-6 years and its rocks. I've try Legion Imperialis and still prefer Epic Armagueddon (Net Epic)
It's hard to determine how many will play a game when people that want to can't purchase the required components. Personally, not having Xenos makes it less enjoyable. Oh, and I don't think it was on accident Warhounds being 330 and having 2, it means 1500pts+ before you can use them (one on each side), and that means filling out the rest of the forces, AND making a second box less viable to do so.
Feels bad to not really surport the "new" game, but with marines only being limited to mk6, and the undercuts, I'd probably have to limit myself to 3d printed infantry if I did get involved in this system. Helps keep the cost down to, which makes it feel even more appealing.
Great vid! I've painted a starting force of Dark Angels, adding a unit about once a week, but my area is starved for AL players. Might have to travel to play :(
What I like in Warmaster is the lack of "herohammer". There is no single big hero model or great monster dominating the field. A hero or monster or wizard is something that chips in to bring one decisive engagement up to snuff. And it sounds like this idea is somewhat around in Epic too. A titan-class unit does not dominate all there is.
I think a big part of the color mush problem with Imperialis’s color scheme is the fact that GW chose the Death Guard as the Imperialis poster boys. I understand that most people are tired of Ultramarines but the dull sickly color of the Pre-Nurgle Death Guard just blend in with the urban setting most of the promotional material take place on. I think that Blood Angles or Emperor’s Children would’ve made the art pop a lot more.
I think the biggest problem on the colour front is the actual setting itself. For the most part, the legions were just mono colour schemes. Red, white, blue, green etc etc. Colours on this level need some form of large spot colour to break things up. At 28mm, gun cases and trim etc are sufficient to break things up but at 8mm/epic scale colour variety is important. Solar auxilia don't just have to be grey, like I think the calth and ultramarine aligned auxilia are blue and so on
LI has become my favourite game. Its my ma8n focus for this year. My LI game group has grown from me alone to 7 players since January. We've started a campaign and have a few more people coming to watch every month too.
i really like LIMP, its currently my go to wargame. It is flawed in terms of not having the units it needs just yet, and i have some nit picks, but as a basis it just feels so good to play, and its easy enough to get into ive been able to get a friend of mine who normaly dont play these games to start playing it regularly. Also, i printed 2 emperor titans (imperator and warmonger), and me and my friends made house rules for em and now play with em quite frequently, especially for narrative games. We made em 2000 points tho Also, yes, the cardboard tokens are awful, so i just printed some order dials instead, works much better And yeah, the ptitan plasma weapons are just, sad. Me and my friends decided to give it blast 3" just so it would be more interesting because otherwise they are just inferior to everything else. Thunderhawks are basicly a must have for space marines because they are just THAT good and lets you transport dreadnoughts, especially leviathans, into battle and wreck serious face. I could go on, but frankly, i dont wanna write the equivalent of a 2 hour long video essay LEGIONS IMPERIALIS!! Flawed System! Great game!
Been loving the game so far, within the confines of my very casual gaming group as you identify. Thanks for mentioning about the refrence sheet... definetely been doing all of those things wrong thanks to it!
Just as a point of note, the release of the Vanguard box set with speeders and bikes makes the Space Wolves have a purpose against far more enemies as they also prevent outflank moves within 8”.
This is a great video, as usual. Im really happy to see a decrese in the ai generated imagery here. I didnt have a problem with it, but the stock images and photos have a different, nicer feel.
Love this review and the causal lounge piano in the background 😂 Have played several games recently as, much like yourself have been in love with Epic since it was space marine. One regular opponent has plenty of time on his hands and some of the broken things he has realised due to the lack of clarity on certain rules is ridiculous, like the other night, starting his Thunderhawk in skimmer mode on the board in turn one, zipping across the board and not being able to be targeted by anti air and dripping off his leviathans for a charge in turn one... All due to certain clarity on specific rules. But as you say, new game, let's see whether they fix things or leave it broken.
The box is designed to split down the middle and the problem gets even worse. That said, i think the box is meant to be a taster, giving the person/people who buy it the ability to try out all the mechanics: infantry, walkers, tanks and titans. The forces are relatively balanced from what ive seen so i think thats the mind set behind it.
i am currently building up a large collection of space marines from the legion imperialis but at the moment i am a bit bevind with the releases. i never played the original epic but i always wanted to (didn't have the money back then). i am looking forward for 40k epic because i would like to have a xenox army.
Seen the video thrice, first at work, the relistned at work but more focus, than at home, slighty drunk a third time but now watching along viewing. A damn fine game review #3rdEditionEpicFFS
Hit the nail on the head. I have such unbelievable buyers remorse after investing into LI… such a shame it’s a dead game. I was so excited. I can’t see myself buying into any other GW game outside my existing 40K armies now, and even in those my favourite models are added to legends and my hobby time outright trashed.
I really enjoy LI, but I am a narrative player, not a competitive one. But I have my share of problem with the rules (like rending) and game design (like weapons profiles / no weapon costs) or even the fact, that i have to carry 2 rule books around, still I really enjoy painting and playing this scale. I stepped away from 40k, when 8. edition was released, switching over to Horus Heresy, which is still my mainstay game up to date. When Titianicus and Aeronautica (re)released, because those "smaller" scale games is something i always wanted. Even back when Epic was still a thing, i was staring at the models and always wanted to get some, but being a at uni, they were not in my financial reach. Now i just sit here and enjoy the system, 3d printing more stuff as i write this (Mastodons, Fellblades, Glaives and many many many other Marks of armours)
Hello! Love your channel - posted on another video but would love you to do some other WD Battle Reports! If you're having trouble finding them, the facebook 2e 40k group has a pdf of ALL the 2nd edition battle reports ever published, and it's really interesting as there are some in there that I never knew existed! Ones that would be worth looking at that you havn't done include:- WD 171 - Witch hunt. The Dark Millenium BR, and it's really good. WD 187 - Heretec! Big Tank battle WD 194 - Civil War. Two tournament winners fight WD 202 - The Lurking horror. A great BR between Space wolves and Tyranids with a huge twist. WD 219 - Ambush. Actually a lovely BR with two really well composed armies. Shame about the photography. WD 212 - Last Stand. The last 2e BR, and it's AMAZEBALLS. I'll let you discover why... just some ideas! best dude.
Thanks, I believe I have the file in question as well as hard copies of all the reports from this era, the problem is that Workshop have decided to release not one but 2 retro games this year that I am trying to capitalise on. I have two battle reports scripts at 50% and hopefully in Q4 I can sneak one or both of them out. Unless we get BFG or Mordheim…
I love the cover of the book :) It's very serious looking. I agree with the lack of illustrations inside, it's very...daunting, but it's very heresy like.
Great to see LImp content here. I think the rules confusion will only get worse with one supplement already out, another on the way and still some units not included. Rules are going to be split across different sections of different books. While I agree that a gradual release schedule can be good, the fact that Spartans and Land Raiders just arrived now means that lists are not available, core and iconic units, and that makes it hard to plan out your full initial list. There are conspiracy theories about why second edition was the basis here, ranging from 'second ed was from a time when it sold well and was a winner for GW' to 'the community has Epic Armageddon well supported and GW don't want to risk channeling new players to the fourth edition when they are done with LI'.
When the game was announced, i reckoned similar on the imperator although I specifically believe the Dies Irae will be released as a resin kit from not forge world. Be interesting to see though.
Epic Space Marine was the game that got me into the hobby, so I was initially excited by this and Adeptus Titanicus. I was then instantly disappointed to find it was Horus Heresy, meaning boring marine vs marine and no xenos (i.e. my boyz, the Orks)
I would love to play this system. Unfortunately, the guys I like arent in it. So hopefully enough people prefer the space marine battle anime power level "how many custodes could battle this primarch if he was at double extra super saiyan" setting to support it until it can become a real 40k game.
Playing this on a regular basis with a friend. It is a very fun game but we can both see all the time how some things can be exploited and how some other things simply doesn't work. Titans is one of those things. They are awesome models but if both sides has a titan and the other persons titan fall, that is basically GG for the other side.
Heresy 2.0 is also not a finished game and needs a big faq. Those custom dioramas looked cool when I first saw them in Heresy. I wonder if there's still Tourist in Tizca.
its heresy era so probably never. Eldar and Orks feel on the table as options (which im disappointed they dont have), but Tau were in their Neolithic Era during this period
About rules we prefer classic Epic 40k (also, we can use more armies than marines). And about prices, if GW is usually stupid, the cost of Legions is just over the top. Just 3D print whatever you need and play with better rules.
Lovely video, despite the constant, nagging feeling that I was actually watching an RM Brown pastiche of a Warhammer channel due to the music choice (Praise God)
13:53 a tip i love about pronunciation is that most if you see something with ae that is even remotly collegated to the roman empire its just pronounced e
Still waiting for my epic 40k orks to be usable again. Launch of this game was a completely missed opportunity. It won't be around very long just like aeronautica
Great video, really hope one day we see Xenos in this, Ork Gargants are what got me into the hobby so many years ago.Also yay Spire reference! Such a fun system (although Heart is slightly more my fave).
I loved loved Epic and Warmaster and gothic three of the best games GW ever made can’t wait to dive in to the “modern Epic” praying for a new warmaster and gothic
We're turn 3 in our Grand Slaughter Campaign and playing between 2k-3k within a 3 hours. We're pretty refined at playing the system now. I play loads of 40k weekly but without a doubt the LI games are WAY more fun and tactical. The rules are janky, some don't make sense and we've had to house rule a bit here and there - but you know what? I don't care. We're adults. We don't need GW to hold our hand.
My issue with it is that the name heavily implies imperial forces only. Which to me means no xeno. Which to me is incredibly boring. I didn't want marines in 40k, or 30k, and I don't want them here either. Which is a shame cause I really love the idea of playing an army at this scale. Seems like wasted potential.
You can, but one of the Achilles heels of epic has always been that infantry-based skew lists tend to be pricy, due to how sprues are set up. If you specifically just want assault marines and termies, it's going to be expensive. If you just want an army that gets in close really fast for short range engagements, that's much more manageable.
Their grammar and language quality has taken a serious dive since I got back in the hobby in 9th ed. So many spelling mistakes and grammatical errors in almost every book I buy makes me wonder who they've fired/hired to be in charge of that stuff. I don't even think they proofread any of it sometimes Edit: not only that, but the quality of the writing just isn't there anymore. Some sentences read like something written by a school child level of English education. Or by someone for whom English isnt their native tongue. It's painful to read sometimes, especially for what's marketed as a "pinnacle of the industry" company
Nice review. But it bis beyond me why someone would be interested in playing epic game size rules with 8mm Minis and then play it like a skirmisher in the end. It's meant for massive battles ( 3.000 points is just about right ) and not 3 skirmish battles with handfull of sqads and a tank per day. But, each to it's own. I am totally with you on the cardboard tokens. This is outright bad product development. Some of the rules are indeed a bit awkward, but tbh it's not a major system and it gives enough food for thought to players...which has always been part of the hobby. So aside from some very obvious faults by GW ( printing errors and certain formulations ) I think this game offers a lot of fun.
