Depends on how wide I think the villain is. If I'm eliminating over cards to my tens JQKA & all diamonds & straight cards like 456... well then it's a bit difficult to get a brick turn. But yes, if the turn is the 9 of clubs I think jamming is a solid play.
This all day. This is how you beat maniacal play in live cash. There are too many OTHER, more highly exploitable spots available for me to get in there speculatively for >300bb
Tough spot for hero. V really shouldn't have any bigger pocket pairs, and probably shouldn't have 33/22 or 32 in his double-flatting range. Most opponents are just going to flat call the flop with their draws, unless they're huge combo draws, like 54dd, or some nut flush draws. I think I might be tempted to donk-jam this turn card, not expecting V to have a Q very often, if ever. Checking a relative brick just seems too passive, after we call the flop raise, expecting V to be on a flush draw.
Is it possible that the actual key inflection point of the hand was Hero's big C-bet that they quickly glossed over? - I mean, with, say, only 300BB deep it still looks fairly reasonable/ standard. But, maybe a pretty oldschool line of thought: Do we really want to open up that can of worms, and are ready to play for stacks 660BB deep, probably against an aggro-fish, with a medium strong pair?
@@Badbentham I think it's actually villains sizing on flop that's telling. That does not look like 33 or 22 to me. Not that he couldn't fast play crushing the flop, but I think even a fast play takes a raise sizing with less fold equity. So I think Bart is on the right track with something like 45dd or AXdd. On occasion it might be an over play of something like 88. So I see the flop sizing's being indicative of hero being ahead. The problem is that truly clean turn cards are hard to find. All diamonds are obviously bad. Because it's often the nut draw, aces are terrible. It could be a combo draw, making 456 cards sketchy. The X part of AXdd could easily be a paint card & if KQdd is on the table.... We now have all over cards to our ten, all diamonds, and 4's + 6's being likely straight cards. That's 16 OC's, 8 str8 cards, & 9 diamonds. Obviously some of the diamonds are in the rank categories and we don't want to double count them, so subtract 6 overlap cards. We still get 27 bad turn cards. In fact, we see what actually occurred was a non-diamond Q that put hero behind on turn. My conclusion is that there is not necessarily a bad play for hero here. He's usually ahead so calling or jamming is fine, but playing for stacks with a pair of tens this deep is questionable, so folding is not wrong. I personally don't like folding the best hand & with the turn being so easily dirty... I think I just jam.
@@Badbentham I had to go back and re-watch the video. So...V double-flatted on the BTN pre, which is weird. I don't expect many V's to do that with bigger pocket pairs (JJ+), or better suited aces (AK, AQ, A5), or small pairs (22-44), or diapers (32). When V raises flop, I wouldn't expect V to fast play 33 with a huge 5x raise sizing. If V has 32 or 22, it might make sense, if V is worried about hero having a PP and making a bigger boat. But even so, I don't expect V to be double-flatting pre with 32s or 22, and if he did, and got this flop, I'd think he'd sometimes wait until the turn to spring the trap, or take a smaller sizing with his flop raise. So, while this could be 32 or 22, I just think 54s and some weaker AXdd makes up a bigger part of V's pre-flop double flatting and flop raising range than 32, 22, or the good suited aces. The big raise sizing on the flop somewhat screams, "I want to take this down NOW, but I don't mind getting stacks in". All that said, your comment made me reconsider my own thinking and what I said my probable line would be. On further reflection, I think facing this 5x flop raise over our 70% pot c-bet, we might be in a jam or fold situation on the flop. But as played by hero, if we just flat call the flop raise, and we get this turn card, are we just going to check-call with less than a pot sized bet behind? If we think V has a lot more AXdd and 54dd than AQdd, 33, 32, and 22, I can see jamming this turn card from up front.
As played, I jam flop and here’s why: There are most likely two types of hands here: flush draws, or overpairs below our TT. If it is a flush draw, it’s essentially a coin flip bc he’ll have 1 to 2 other live cards to hit (A4d, QJd, A9d, etc). and it’s a coin flip, sometimes with us a little ahead and sometimes with us a little behind. The other groups of hands, we have him crushed. There is literally not one card on the turn that we can feel that safely about, and I’d rather not play a guessing game when deciding to stop n go on turn. Just look how this hand turned out. Get it in now, and either we’re flipping or we have him crushed. I think if we “tank” long enough on the flop and then ship, he’ll crying call with his 77-99 because he’s already getting laid 2-1 and can’t fold in case it’s us with the overs and FD.
I think this hand really exemplifies just how poor Bart is at putting opponents on ranges at different levels. He thinks far too GTO ABC poker, and immediately discounts holdings like AQd because a solid player SHOULD be 3 betting preflop. But 1. A lot of players who are overall “solid” still stray from GTO and have certain leaks in their game. Maybe this olayer’s leak is that he doesn’t 3 bet AJ-AK as often as he should. Or 2. Maybe this player on the button normally does, but the co who originally made it 25 is an overly aggro player, and the solid player on the button chose to take a different line where he is going to let co overplay and let him take the lead, at least until making a strong enough hand post flop to bloat the pot once he had something reasonably strong. Maybe co like to 4 bet and the button chose to pot control 25 instead of being put to a decision of facing a 4bet. This is the art of the game. Tracking not only how your opponents play, but also how they respond to you and other opponents, and then factoring that in to a more accurate range. Or maybe button is normally solid but he haas been on a rough swing and just doesn’t feel like 3 betting is AQ this time. Or he’s superstitious and has been losing with AQ all night. Who knows. So little in these hands does Bart ask the caller about table dynamic, personality of the players, their history, etc.
As soon as you revealed the bet on the turn I immediately guessed AQ of diamonds. I'm not sure what the GTO call is but non-pros don't four bet hands like that but two overs and the nut flush draw is good enough to apply pressure right? And the reason he sigh calls is because even with the queen on the board he probably is still putting you on an over pair
I'm at the flop right now, and my instinct is saying A5 diamonds or 45 suited. Such a hard spot, it really is brutal to have to play this hand this deep facing 200 bb bet on the flop. Like why would 88 or 99 or any set raise so big so fast when you might be able to get another bluff out of the out of position player if they missed, or keep the pot small/reasonable size incase you're beat. This really does look like a strong draw to me from villain.
I'm at the flop now and my instinct is to fold - IMMEDIATELY! I've been in this situation before and my opponent flopped a boat. His idea was betting a ridiculous amount after I 3-bet pre-flop and bet turn would make it seem like a bluff.
Interesting spot. I discount 33 and 22 on the flop because people love to slow play quads/boats (although they shouldn’t if they’re going to semibluff their draws). Wouldn’t have expected AQdd I have to say. I think I like Bart’s idea of calling flop, jamming turn on a non-diamond, non-ace.
Let's say we knew for a fact that villain had a combo draw on the flop. Wouldn't it be better to ship it, rather than letting him draw for free on the turn? If we have an equity advantage then we should push in our chips. Otherwise, he gets to fold for free if he misses, and jam if he hits. If that logic is wrong, I'd appreciate it if somebody could explain why.
I feel like its played far easier by just jamming flop for piles or folding. Sure you prolly lose a little this way but also avoid a ton of tough spots
Agreed with your detractors, friend. Better to read your opponent for a weak check or a faulty raise than to subject pocket 10's to pure variance. Not to say that an all in style jam isn't great when the field is already very thin, but you yourself could so often rep higher pairs than 10's when opponent misses their own overcard on flop, the preflop lead with 10's can be so good so many times in between balanced plays with aces, don't fail to take advantage of both safety and aggression in alternation for optimum play.
No. "lose a little"? NO. You are ONLY "winning pot" or "losing PILES" if you jam on the flop (to save yourself from the headache of thinking). You are getting SNAPPED for PILES against deuces full, A3, 33, AA, QQ, JJ. Every single time. But yes, you will win a decent, stack-sized pot (2k with 2k behind) against AK-A4, KQ-K4s, which you would have won ANYWAY on a stop-n-go jam on a brick turn..
What is a brick on the turn? With 1010, a 7,8,9 offsuit? I feel like there isn’t a lot of “Bricks” like comepared to the boards there are, but most bricks are over cards
More needs to be said about jamming the flop. If we always assume this is a draw, what would be the harm of jamming? Folding out the equity that a hand like AQ suited has is massive. Maybe you get a crying call from 99-66?
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj Td is a counter out! So: V has 32% equity. Just to break even! (NO call is profitable in this particular case). Besides: pot odds are just a theoretical indicator. In reality, you cannot and DO NOT compare large pots (LARGE RISKS) with a small ones, put them in the same bag and treat them the same way. That would be the same as if one say: _If I lose $3000 twice ($6 thousands) and win $600 (six Hundred!) once brings me the same result_ Nahh buddy. You are $5400 behind!
Its strange because villain definitely had the pot odds to call the flop. This hand definitely depends on the style of play of the villain and what the preflop means for them. If this was online id fold to the flop raise
The villain has enough equity on the flop AND turn to call a shove with all Ax of diamonds and 4d5d hands. You should be getting paid if they miss turn either way, so I think it’s best to see it first and then decide to check-fold or shove. However, the villain may fold a brick turn if they put you on AA, because that would remove 3 of their A outs. It’s also hard for them to think that a pair of Q’s are good here because that only beats JJ and 10,10.
3:40 I snap shove. (haven't seen the end result nor the title). Full House or even triple (3) would not play this way. Unless the guy is a heavy beginner, green. Most likely he has: overpair, or combo draw (open ender and front door flush). . EDITS: No point calling whether Im ahead or behind).
It’s so weird the villian doesn’t 3b AQs on the button pre but still it’s kinda ok to jam the flop because even the turn is a diamond hero still has boat redraw which this doesn’t happen on a non pair board
This is a sick situation. I probably fold flop knowing that I'm ahead very often, because it is so hard to play TT here, since a lot of overcards can come and every hand has a lot of equity against you, specially OOP it is probably very losing to call the 5x raise on the flop.
and then some people wonder why so many private poker rooms? People are not stupid. Why should I pay you arms and legs for something I can make by myself?
Geeeez. I would have never have been in this flop to begin with. I mean, from the players I play in 1/2 (I realize this is 2/5), when there's a raise on the flop, it's typically A3 or a diamond draw. Caller got really lucky here.
1) We want to pile in money with our overpair advantage before the board changes and force 88 type hands to call big bets 2) a small bet gives villain many easy continues IP with hands like 66 / AQ (we don’t like it when we have QJs) 3) 322fd is a board where we retain our PF range advantage since it’s hard for villain to have many strong hands So we basically bet big because a small bet doesn’t serve the incentives of our range.
@@martinst-pierre6620 1* What overpair? V could have JJ, QQ, KK, AA, A3s. 2* If V could have AQd he can have JJ, QQ. 3* How many (strong hands) do you need to call it dangerous situation? one bullet kills a deer. . It's C-betting between $80 and $100 (1/3 of the pot) only optimum bet. So: 70% flop C-bet is a wrong play.
and then call a huge raise and then call another grand when the q comes? Because hes fucking shit. Its cute how lucky he is though hitting his 4%er lol. He said in the video the other guy had the "ego" then the caller says they're mad that hes pretty and young and built a big stack pretty quick at the table. And judging from this play he got that big stack by extreme luck and then he further proves this by claiming he went "card dead" .
He got you to put your money almost dead and you were ultra lucky. But your call was bad. I guess he's very wealthy to be playing those stakes with his poker level
1-Hero shouldn't assume the villian couldn't have pairs that beat his pair since a nit open to 5x and villian just called. I think both players overplay their hand on the flop. It's 3 streets game.
Completely based on the player. If the person tends to "scare bet" AK/Q/J here, then I'm jamming. But if the player is super tight OR super loose, this size screams "I have a 3 or AA/KK". I just can't believe anyone does this line with a combo draw. Definitely a tricky one though.
I usually fold a hand that contains a ten.....that specific card leads to many marginal situations especially against tough players... Pocket tens, not much better.
@@arnoldvosloo220 The villain said. Something along the lines of the hero running it up and then not playing hands anymore. Unless you don't play poker, or you're one of those, you know the type.
@@GWrench9 Of course the caller is dogshit. I mean hes one of those clowns that gets extremely lucky just hitting lotto shit just like this hand where he hits a 4%er after his terrible play on every street. Then tightens up and just mass folds because he has no actual skill and him winning like this is something that doesnt happen to often (hard for him to recreate because hes trash). The game plays him.
this was just played like shit from caller. And once the over card comes its over. Caller sounds pretty bad probably should be playing 1/3 I think his ego got the best of him :(.
