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It's amazing to me to read how many people criticize the wood/epoxy tank concept but have no problem with the idea that the exact same construction is what's keeping the ocean on the outside of the boat itself. You're doing a great job. Trust your research and your knowledge.
It seems like no time at all I watched you trying to help the epoxy cure with heating cable. Now it seems your place would make a fairly respectable sauna! I admire your resilience sir.
Seasonal changes in both temperature and humidity. It can be a learning curve when working with chemicals. Stick to the manufacturers directions and just wait for it to "go off"/set.
Have a look at KBS Coatings and their GOLD tank sealer, I use it to seal fuel tanks on motor cycles, cars/trucks, boats, and small engines. It's diesel, gas, ethanol, and methanol safe, can be just poured in and gently moved around, brushed or sprayed on. I have used it in over 50 builds for my customers and haven't had a tank fail yet. Congrats on the sponsor and your daughter graduating.
My brother and I built a 52F ketch, launched in 2005, with plywood/epoxy water tanks. They have been in use since then, and still in perfect condition. So you are right water tanks out of ply are perfectly functional
Gougeon Brothers are your best guide for wood/epoxy composite building. After 40 years I still find useful tips and info in their book. Keep moving and ignore these internet whiners.
Glade to see you back Scott....wooden diesel / water tanks, didn't expect that, but I'm in!! Very interested in watching that process. Keep hydrated inside that tent. It's hot....
On a pleasure boat where you can make sacrifices for handling that is usually the way to go. But on a boat like my motor sailor where weight distribution can be the difference between making it back to land or not. I'll always prefer to fabricate tanks to keep the fuel and water as low and centered as possible. Even a few inches can make a huge difference in handling rough weather. Also pre fabricated tanks rarely have enough baffles. The last thing I want in a gale is fuel sloshing around.
Diesel is 7# per gallon so you will have 4500# pounds of diesel. That's a good amount of ballast if you don't burn it, but what would be the fun in that. Thanks for another good video Scott. Enjoy your videos and your progress. Take care and have a great weekend.
Scott, how are you doing. How is your arm that you injured. Did you require surgery and how are you and your family coping with this COVID 19 pandemic. God bless you as you recover and heal. Thanks for including us in this massive project
In the magazine Professional Boat Builder about 10 years ago they had a series of articles of making, plywood, fiberglass, epoxy fuel tanks I think you'll find it very enlightening because they were using what U.S. Coast Guard regulations require. What was recommended was using continuous strand mat / Vail on the inside surfaces of the tank if I remember right it was three layers so that would give you something around 3/32 of an inch of continuous filament that way you're less likely to have leaks. I was a professional boat builder for a number of manufacturers and I found it very I am enlightning and hopefully you can find the article you have to remember the gougeon brothers material is 40 years out of date while the theory is fine the materials have changed the requirements have changed and the articles in Professional Boat Builder was current and made the U.S. Coast Guard happy Here's a useful hint for you get yourself some peel ply and use that as the last layer on any surface or any place you have to go back and attached anyting to the surface all you do is peel it up when you're ready to go and put another layer down no sanding no dust quick and easy
Kriss Bennett that’s good stuff! I never even considered peel ply but that’s a great idea. I think I found the article from Aug/Sep 2003. It was written by Dave Gerr, and it’s actually from a chapter in one of his books, which I’ve read. It wasn’t explicitly about building plywood tanks, but the use of core materials in FRP tanks. They mention different kinds of matte, resin rich polyester layup and recommended thickness. I searched quite a bit of their back issues and that was the closest thing I found. Is that the article you are referring to? Point taken on the Gouegen brothers book, but they actually keep updating it, I’m reading from their 5th addition (2005)
@@SixPointsWoodWorks that could be the article it specifically mentions using continuous strand mat / Vail for your interior finish of the tank. I have built a couple Plywood And polyester resin tanks for diesel and they work fine providing you make sure you get everything sealed properly
Six Points Wood Works Six Points Wood Works Kriss Bennett One thing worth mentioning is the petroleum industry was very big on using fiberglass fuel storage tanks in the 1980’s however by the mid 1990’s Amoco, Exxon, Shell, Mobil, etc were all replacing there 30 year guaranteed tanks I removed well over 500 of those fiberglass fuel storage tanks that were mad from several different manufacturers and all of them were starting to leak because it appeared to me that the Gasoline and diesel had eaten them away. Mind you these were tanks either buried in the ground of in a concrete vault and the tanks were stationary and the fuel was only sloshing around when they were being filled. My point by my rambling is a boat is a far more hostile environment than a buried petroleum tanks. Additionally I think their is something wrong with your math diesel fuel weight 7.1 pound per gallon so 640 Gallons of Diesel fuel according to my math is 4,544 Pounds, that leads me to my next question why does a sailboat need so much fuel. Your boat not mine but I would look to Aluminum, steel or bladder type fuel tanks. Have a nice day and good luck with your sponsor.
Thanks. I appreciate the real world experience. Ethanol and fiberglass composite tanks do not go together. The addition of ethanol seems like it has a lot of unintended consequences. The weight portion I simply mis spoke, I meant that each tank will be carrying a couple thousand pounds, just got it mixed up when I was talking. Don't worry RU-vid is always quick to point out when I say it wrong. I appreciate the concerns, really. I know its not for everyone, but I have seen with my own eyes plywood epoxy tanks, I have spoken with others who have built them in their own boats and their experience has been excellent. We'll be extremely careful in building them, there will be no "good enough" in this part of the build. It will be perfect or we will start over. I ordered the peel ply last night, gonna start with a test panel when it arrives to try it, along with our techniques out. thanks again
@@gullreefclub I'm well aware of those fibreglass tanks. I also know one company that made them. And the people that built the tanks, some of those tanks were made for something other than gasoline or diesel... were used for gasoline and diesel. It's not a problem with the use of fibreglass it was the failure of the resin matrix that was used. In aircraft they are using epoxy to make fuel tanks for jet fuel and av-gas. When it comes to resin matrix's you have polyester vinyl Ester and epoxy each one has its place and each one has its specialty where it works well. But when you chime in well it's a fiberglass tank and their no good and you don't know what the tank is made out of kinda your cut your argument. It does show how little you know about the process of making composite tanks. Just because you have seen a few failed fiberglass tanks doesn't mean they don't work. With any tank install there are many points of failure over time, that includes metal tanks.
Water, fine, bilge pumps will handle any leaks. But fuel, spring for a bladder liner or aluminum box. That's one place you don't want to test your expertise in leak proofing...Two smaller tanks located on either side and linked with piping will help with trim, also lets you refuel from either side, while fresh and grey water tanks should be on center line. Just an old blue water sailor's opinion, and I'm not there to do the work, but at 72, this is what we geezers do, tell other people how to do things... ; {
You should never "adjust" the resin/hardener ratio with epoxy. To much hardener makes it soft and to much resin makes it brittle. When they speak of resin rich they are describing the layup not the mixture. So instead of squeegeeing the layup lean, you leave it with excess resin to isolate the fibers from the contained liquid. Don't mess with the mix ratio!
Hey Scott - well best of luck with the tank construction, you really have bitten off a tall task and are certainly ‘over engineering’ it and it will be much more work than using off the shelf than roto moulded tanks. I appreciate that buying in may appear expensive but you are hardly going cheap with your material specification and I would be surprised if your manufactured wooden GRP reinforced and lined tanks will work out cheaper at all. The one disadvantage of bought in tanks is they do not offer the same sort of capacity, as you are using the hull form to advantage with your built in tanks. I do not want to keep harping on about your nuts and bolts and appreciate you are just demonstrating getting the work done and the detail may not be truly represented in the video, but... It is good engineering practice to have no more than two threads protruding from the nut when the joint is clamped up and the use of a threadlocker (Loctite) is really advisable. Once the boat is commissioned and working in a seaway, motion and vibration could set those nuts unwinding. All that being said, you are are doing great work and are a joy to watch and listen to - my comments are offered constructively and should not be talked as negative criticism.😀👍
Wow, that heat would totally kill my productivity. As I watched this video (July 5th) up here in the pacific northwest it was cloudy with a light mist, and about 59 degrees... Perfect weather for wearing my Sea Dreamer hoodie.
Since you are building the boat yourself, you will need to have it inspected by a Marine Surveyor in order to be able to get the boat insured. There are two major societies of accredited Marine Surveyors in the US. They are known by their name acronyms, which are "NAMS", and "SAMS". They both have web sites that include registries to find a surveyor in your area. I think it would be worth while for you to coordinate the plywood with epoxy and glass fuel tank construction approach with a Marine Surveyor before actually constructing the tanks. Frankly, I do not think they will be willing to approve that type of construction for fuel tanks. Greg
quick math check? Diesel weighs about 7 lbs per gallon US and a bit more in Canada, so.......640 gallons works out to 4480 pounds give or take! You REALLY SURE you want to trust plywood????? Would love to see the engineering behind this. Your boat I know, but you have WAY MORE TRUST than I do with plywood and epoxy! Good luck and I hope that it works out for you.
Since youŕe so good at math, what is the weight of the water pressing on the exterior of that wooden boat? Not to mention the forces involved in ocean waves? Wood is quite strong, they use it for concrete forms too.
Don't know latest years Epoxy development but since 1960 Epoxy has been weaker ,softer, not good against chemicals and poor gluing if you change mixture. 2010 we were developing epoxies which allow even 5% less and 10% more hardener without very radical change of quality. But anyway it was recommended to use axact mixture. Some people thought epoxy is like polyester in which cases used some hardener changing.
Very interesting idea for the tanks, Scott. I think Ross from Life On The Hulls is doing the same for his water too. It is almost a shame to break up the yacht, but there are so many just laying around that it makes sense to re use as much as possible from redundant ones. Have you noticed how optimistic people are about the values of them sometimes?
Funny how people consider wooden boats to be flammable but fiberglass boats with plastic tanks, carpet and vinyl interiors to be non-flammable? I don't quite get it.
Wood will catch fire a little easier in some cases, but I've seen both burn to the waterline. In reality though there's very little difference and wood is probably easier to put a fire out.
Modern plastics and many manufacturer composite resins are loaded with bromine, or other flame suppressant. There are test standards for self extinguishing polymers.
@@burntorangeak I agree that modern glass boats are harder to catch fire than wood, but in reality if it's got enough fuel to get burning to where a few extinguishers wont put it out either one will burn. I've seen steel boats burn too,they'll get hot enough to melt and deform things. I guess if you're careless enough or things are stacked against you nothing is going to help.
@petnzme01 Galvanized steel is certainly not as long lived as bronze or SS but thousands of boats have been built, floated, and enjoyed with less that ideal construction. In a few years he will out living the dream of traveling about in his less than perfect boat and all of the naysayers will be sitting in front of their computers looking for another project to find fault with.
Great to see some scale to Sea Dreamer, the positioning of the doorway really helps in imagining her shape. I noticed when you were driving the bolts through the white oak that you didn't apply any treatment to the hole before hand, I was just wondering if there was any reason for this? Also you haven't used any anti seize or copper grease anywhere, same thing, just wondering why?
The only thing that bothers me is the tanks being an integral part of the hull. Don't get me wrong, I am by no means a tree hugger, but if there is ever a hull rupture it could get pretty bad and not just environmentally. The Government will hold you responsible for any cleanup.
that's a lot of fuel for a little enigne. have you thought of putting in a shorter range "day tank"? modern diesel has a shelf life due to the ethenol they put in it. if you had a smaller 100g tank for cruising around locally then used the big tanks for long distances you'd be less likely to run into biological fouling issues.
Can we get a close up of the transitions at the stem and stern of the garboard stringers, please? BTW, your looking a bit scruffy there sarge. Are we just shaving once per week now? Additionally, is Milwaukee a sponcer? You had the flag up for a long time and have a lot of their tools. As a Desert Shield/Storm Army veteran, I appreciate your salute to service initiative. Are the proceeds from the salute to service shirts going to support any service related charities/support groups? Also, do you still have hull jacks around the outside of the boat to help keep it upright? As you build higher and higher the weight distribution/center-of-gravity is rising too. No one wants to see you hurt by the build falling over. Are you going to pit in any blocking where the "water tight" bulkheads meet the hull stringers? Water will go right through those spots, defeating the purpose of the bulkheads. Also, the limber holes, if they're drilled through the floors at the bulkheads will defeat the "water-tight" aspect. Will you run three bilge pump pickups, or just have removable plugs in the bulkhead limber holes? Have someone come out at night and shine a flashlight in the dark around the edges and seems of the bulkheads to show you where the water will be getting through, then maybe you can take care of any issues before blocking your access to those spots. Cheers, and keep her going. Congrats to your high school graduate. I know she'll be missed when she goes off to college in about five weeks. Is she going away, or going somewhere close by? Man, all the obligations outside of the build can get cumbersome. But you know what your priorities are/should be, your an intelligent man, I can tell from your problem solving skill during this build series. It's been fun finding your channel and getting up to date these past few days. Thanks for sharing your introduction to the nautical journey you have begun.
I am concerned about the fuel tanks from epoxy and plywood. I'm sure that you have done your homework, and are comfortable with it but I wouldn't do it! At the same time, there are products to use as liners to fuel tanks, including bladders that could be placed inside the same structure, but provide some surety against leaking and structural damage thru rough seas, and long winters!! Best of luck!
Scott The next time you need a washer, a plate washer, a gusset, an access panel, a brace, a baffle, a strap, or a bracket you are in luck. Just walk to your sail boat with a little grinder in hand and cut out what you need. I use recycled FRP for all sorts of things like this dock box.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-W95vRX0Ch_U.html Enjoy your videos, Barry
So much weight in the bulkhead is not wise...... having tanks under the floor in the middle of the boat is better. A lighter boat nose will help to lift the nose on big waves instead of ploughing into the wave....
If you have not already thought of it I would highly recommend avoiding any 90 degree corners in the tanks you build. try using some trim to round the corners (including the bottom).
You certainly need to be aware of the temps, but I've been using the medium set hardener and it works out fine provided you don't attempt something overly ambitious in scope for a single glue up.
Ouch, the talkin.......whew.....my ears hurt. just can’t see storing my lifeline of fuel in a plywood tank and not sure I’d want to wonder what’s growing in a plywood water tank after a few years. More power to ya brother. Maybe some fiberglass would make the difference.
Second time watching. I would have paid the money and gotten a stainless steel tank, but that is me. Watch Mads from Sail Life in this video.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vhj7IIzu7B4.html Some good tips on designing the lid and inlets and outlets.
