Another great 1000kms test! Would be very important and interesting if you can do the same test for the same car (CT4) with a more efficient approach to see the real impact: - wheels 20” - “range” mode selected The amazing 21” wheels are too much “fat” (305 in the rear and 265 on the front) to be efficient - maybe the less efficient wheels from all EVs (We can’t find these fat measures in any wheels in any Tesla model! ).
I did 1050 km, Poznan (PL) to my house in Belgium, in 9:16 min .. of course charging included. Of course thanks to the German A2 highway, Ionity chargers along the way and ABRP
@@pedrotravalero4605 nah, a regular RWD Taycan with 20”. Driving in daytime in Germany on a public holiday … pedal to the metal wherever possible. My average speed was 124km/h
This one gets a pretty big asterisk on the table. Would personally find it valuable to see a separate column for actual time that only subtracts non car related things like construction/bathrooms.
Or another which splits it between charger related and car related. To be honest we could split everything but ther here and now of it is this took a lot longer than its final time would suggest. I think Bjorn is trying to be fair by saying "this is what it should have done" but that doesn't mean it did it. For instance construction may have cost time but it may also have saved some battery. Swapping stalls may have cost time but the ramp up and so on may have changed the overall effect of that too. Take these times more as a reasonably accurate guess than a perfectly accurate timed run because on a normal road thats almost impossible to repeat.
I think the point is, in normal driving, people make stops for gas, and they also go to the bathroom and eat, pay for the gas, etc. All of which takes a little bit of time. If you look at Bjorn's spreadsheet, the baseline of a gasoline car for the 1000 km is 8 hours 35 minutes. So we can get a rough estimation of how do various EVs do in comparison to a normal ICE car that we are used to already. This car's time is 9 hours and 45 minutes, which is in the top 20 of vehicles tested by Bjorn.
The cars come without that setting enabled, it is your choice to enable it. Warranty is all based on the original max advertised speeds. There is no stipulation on owner responsibility for battery health in Porsche finance agreements where they take the car back at then end. I see it as a nice addition for those of us who probably overthink battery health rather than a negative.
Porsche just let you kill the battery, similar to how Honda’s aggressive NiMh charging profile trying to keep up with Toyota’s much more conservative approach that made their HEVs & PHEVs far out last Honda’s.
You got very good consumption in Taycan sedan some time ago, on 19” tires. Here you have fat body, fat tires (21”, 305 width on back wheels) and roof rails. I wonder how much each of these items affect the range. According to Porsche range calculator, fat tires can reduce the range up to 10 % vs 19” and 20”. Fat body reduces efficiency for sure but it’s the only body I can consider for Taycan. I wonder how thirsty would be Taycan CT on “range oriented” tires. So maybe the next test Bjorn ;)
@@rubenbraekman4515 I configured CT on 19”. Reaction of the dealership sales person shows I was the first :) BTW, 20” at Taycan are still range oriented. The problem is 21”. 305 wide rear tires at Taycan 4 is just for its look, not for grip.
Crazy high consumption - when i drive my 4S+ on motorway with speeds 110-120 km/h i range mode it rarely exceeds 23 kwh/100 km. I have 20” turbo sport aero.. have seen as low as 18,3 kwh/100 on 500 km journey in summertime (avg. Speed 113 km/h)…
What is you Taycan body? Is that regular Taycan (sedan)? Tires and a body must be an answer. I checked Etron gt 21” vs Taycan 19” range tests by Bjorn. 250 vs 220Wh/km.
Pedro Travalero yes it’s the sedan version, but the CT or ST form should not use that much more juice moving forward…. If I should be using 30 kwh/100 km, then i guess i would have to travel with 150-160 km/h..
Pretty fast despite high consumption. I think if you get the Ioniq 6 on a nice and warm day it will come pretty close to the model 3 LR. It will be the first relatively efficient vehicle with 800V
It is ridculous that the car needs as much time only to start charging as an ICE car needs to refule 70 liters. Why does Ionity not fix these chargers that obviously has a too short pin for the handshake?
This handshake is awful on Ionity. But even the Model 3 on Ionity takes at least 3 times as long as on Supercharger. It's crazy. Ionity is in my opinion now a really crapish network, totally overcrowded in Germany during Peak times, way too few stalls, long handshake sessions and they don't even build new locations or expand existing ones...
I was talking to a Taycan owner today. He said his charge speed was limited when he first had the car. It gradually improved as he added mileage. I can’t say, however , that he was taking weather and temp into account.
Yeah it masks the realistic experience of the vehicle's ownership, the reliance on these networks. Otherwise what's the incentive for these providers to improve? It's better to report the actual results and put pressure on companies involved to improve the customer's experience for next time.
Nice video, Bjørn, and refreshing music ;) The charging power one site consumes is just humongous. Consider four cars charging with 250 kW, so 1 MW total. This corresponds to about 750 Households or 1000 citizens (about 1.5 kVA per household, 1 kV per citizen). Tremendous! My private energy consumption would be eaten up by this car in just 3 hours of full power charging, so 3000 times faster. I can't get over that.
Think about this: A fossil car driving at 100 km/h consumes about 5 l/100 km. 1 litre of diesel contains 10 kWh. That means 50 kW of average power. If the efficiency is 30 %, then only 15 kW goes into motion whereas the remaining 35 kW goes into heat. Imagine 100 cars driving on the road. That's a staggering 3.5 MW of leftover heat that is just wasted! Madness!
@@bjornnyland but does it happen to have issues at superchargers? I had none yet, while with the other chargers I usually expect them not to work properly. So having a non-Tesla is a bit problematic on road trips and it takes longer compared to a Tesla even if the car itself is capable of similar charging.
@@bjornnylandyou do a great job but I find watching most of your videos a problem at Tesla supercharger has a probability of less than 5% instead a problem with ionity or other chargers is maybe 30% or more so it's not unlikely that it will happen to you in every trip. Anyway great job as always 👍
The time is the time and to reflect the user experience should include the issues. Maybe a separate column for overall issues on your table. That’s the real user experience reflected with the issues.
On that charge speed - is it frying the battery on fast or is it saving the battery on slow? I would love to know what impact that actually has on battery life. Lets be honest aswell - unless you're doing a timed run 200kW is usually going to be fine anyway so if that makes the battery last an extra year and you're not in a rush why not? It would be interesting to see what Porsche say the differences are in lifespan.
Because of these charging problems, and the 200kw charging the results will not be that accurate :/ It sucks but I think at some point later you should re-do the 1000k challenge when you get the hold of Taycan Turismo again.
No need to. If you actually paid attention to the video, I already deducted 7 minutes because of the eco charging. I have very accurate data on how fast it should have been and how slow it was.
@@bjornnyland no I saw the troll text. It’s just the CC gave away the speed unless you’re manually overriding it which wouldn’t make much sense. I enjoyed the video though :)
I would really like to know what exactly is happening during these handshakes and why they take so long? Looks like some developer forgot to remove a couple of "sleep" statements from his code.
2 года назад
Haha yes... I can totally understand ramping the current slowly, but the handshake itself should be fast.
@@rogerstarkey5390 I believe if you fail to pay for a Supercharging session, e.g. bank card expires, then a few days later Tesla push a note to your car and it shows "supercharging unavailable" or something on the UI. Then the car itself prevents you from rapid charging, either supercharging or using 3rd party rapids. Once you update your new card details they immediately push a notification to the car and the UI message disappears. In general it helps that Tesla has full control over its ecosystem, but they also just have better engineered software on the car and on the backend servers. I've worked with big name technology manufacturers (e.g. French and Japanese) who both made the same mistakes implementing their device state machine. They were unable to deal with the race condition when both devices try to communicate at the same time. Somehow not all engineers have a grounding in Real Time Systems design, yet they get to work on them and release products that mostly work but frequently fail. In this case, once we demonstrated how to reproduce the error by reverse engineering their black box, then showing them how their state machine was probably designed badly, they were able to go away, re-engineer properly, and fix the issue for good.
Did you ever find out what's up with the range mode not using the more efficient front motor? Is it model specific or maybe a bug of some kind? Consumption should be much better.
I think the only reasonable reductions are for traffic and roadworks. Failed handshakes, charging fails, and slow starts are the reality of this car and current infrastructure. I think some cars clearly have more of these problems than others, so I would leave those issues in the time recorded.
Limitations on max speed. And "quite better consumption" is not correct. The 1000 km challenge consumption is quite close to the 120 km/h consumption. This has been proven in many test across brands/models. The consumption for 1000 km challenge was 263 Wh/km whereas the 120 km/h consumption was 255 Wh/km. I have also tested range mode on Taycan 4S and the difference is minimal: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YuOWTfHYQA8.html&ab_channel=Bj%C3%B8rnNyland
I don't think you should deduct the Handshake time, it is a problem that all EV driver had at some point. I drive an Tesla an i had it to, althought not so many times like this german. 😁
I have over 40,000 roadtrip miles in a Tesla and ~200 Supercharger stops. I’ve only ever experienced one faulty stall where I had to move. Otherwise, it always starts charging within seconds before I even get back into the car. But yes, I agree, deducting handshake times actually leads to misleading results. Who cares if the car charges in 20minutes if every time it takes 5minutes to get it going (not to mention the frustration involved).
I didn't deduct handshake time. I deducted handshake failures. The same way as I deduct faulty supercharger stalls or stalls giving less power than usual and then I change stalls...
Wow that was the highest dedication time I have so far on your videos. But it shows the charging issues people will have to deal with. When the more superchargers are open then you can use them and hopefully less issues and incentive for others to improve their game.
Bjørn, Instead of assuming that the Porsche fast charge rate “hurts” the battery, it seems to me that most manufacturers DC charge at the max possible rate, and don’t offer an option to charge a bit slower to help battery life. This includes Tesla, Porsche, Audi, Northstar, Kia, Hyundai, etc. Some only charge very slow, like GM Bolt EV/Opel Ampera, and Nissan Leaf. I like having the option to charge at max rate, or slower, like Porsche offers. They do need to make it easier to find and select though! 😀
In Norway like 90% of Teslas charging network is now open for the non Tesla EV's (with CCS)! So yeah, the real advantage Tesla had over the others isn't really there anymore imo.
I'm from Canada and we've ordered a TMY LR knowing Superchatging is nearly 100% reliable. Imagine -20 C and having to struggle with non-Tesla chargers?
Agree with all others that handshake or plug to charge issues should not be deducted. You simply don’t have it with Tesla and if you deduct it, it gives the impression that this car would be fast, while it is not! In regards to slow traffic I would comment that in those cases, the car also consumes less…so you should not deduct too much…
Slow traffic might have saved me 5 Wh/km which equals to 5 kWh. Charging 5 kWh extra takes only 1 minute. But I lost at least 8 minutes because of slow traffic.
Porsche just let you kill the battery, similar to how Honda’s aggressive NiMh charging profile trying to keep up with Toyota’s much more conservative approach that made their HEVs & PHEVs far out last Honda’s.
If Tesla is limiting charging speed, it means they are careful. They have 10-year experience and they don't want to cook the battery. We will see how many Audi-Porsche batteries need to be changed under warranty.
great stuff. now we need an updated i4 M50 or i4 eDrive40 summer 1000km test, something tells me the eDrive40 could take number 1 place together with M3 LR 82kw
I used normal mode because range mode has some speed limitations. And it's incorrect that range mode will result in "much lower consumption". I have already tested it and it was barely lower: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YuOWTfHYQA8.html
Hey Bjørn, I’ve been waiting very long for de Nissan Areya and now they will be delivered this summer. But before to deside to buy I would like you to test it… is this test coming soon?
Agree with Anders that deducted a bit too much time with charging issues as some with IONITY but some with car, slow handshake, etc… But again, not efficient enough… so Model 3 still king as very efficient and fairly good charging… 👍
I don’t remember noticing that a German handshake was any different than an American one so perhaps there is more than just handshaking going on at Porsche
I dont agree on that. Just drove 4000km with my ix50 on a roadtrip. Zero problems at the best speed to do that trip in was around 150-170km/h. That did give me the best traveltime vs charging time. Try that with an tesla and see how the outcome is ;)
I occasionally check videos like this one to see if 3rd party charging has reached an acceptable level of ease and reliability. (Already own two Teslas, but prefer variety.) "Not yet", it seems, not even in Europe.
Bjorn, you count power consumption based on what car reports? Porsche is counting AC (consumption increases when stopped), Tesla seems like not counting everything. IMO real consumption numbers can be calculated only by counting power charged from the stalls, not numbers reported by cars. Great video anyway!
@@YR2050 In Taycan 4 Cross Turismo range test Bjorn shows 25,5 kWh/100km from the car infotainment cluster and immediately the spreadsheet with 255 Wh/km.
@@pedrotravalero4605 cheat is probably too strong of a word here. It does overreport distance slightly which brings the consumption figure down. But correcting for that it is still class leading in terms of efficiency.
I really like Bjørn’s tests and they are also representative for the Nordics and maybe to the rest of Europe too but not for Germany. To be honest, I don’t believe Dr. Porsche has ever considered his cars for such low speeds. For those speeds he has designed the Beetle or in current terms the iD3/4. If going into compromises to save the planet, you do not need a Porsche by any means to drive 110 km/h in the slow lane. Especially not on a german Autobahn, where the worker’s rushing in their vans to their next address are overtaking you by 140-150 km/h. A Porsche is made for driving fast period. Build it for race tracks shift it to synthetic efuels but don’t disrespect the heritage and spirit of this prestigous brand.
@@bjornnyland yes, you should not deduct time for that on taslas too. But my impression is that this rarely happens with teslas. This is just my opinion. And I'm a tesla guy🤪. Cant wait for your next MYP videos 😁
This video drives home some of the range concerns that those new to EVs may be experiencing, it sounds like the TESLAS have a great advantage in this area. He is going to be the Rockerfeller of batteries.
I have thought about swapping my sons model 3 LR for a Taycan (he is going off to college) but watching this I am not so sure. Seems like a hassle still with the menus and tesla is still much easier to use. Beautiful car and it can cover ground quickly. Maybe too early to switch
Doesn't change the C-rate, that's only dependent on battery capacity. If you had a 1-cell car battery at 3.6V you could still charge it at the same rates. The current would just be insane. But then so would that cell be :)
@@bjornnyland Fair point of course, as you are an intelligent guy who certainly makes well-reasoned and well-thought out decisions. At the moment I wrote the comment I did not recall a time when Tesla charging problems had been deducted, but you are right, it would only be fair that Tesla charging problems should also not be deducted. I see your methodology makes 1000km challenge more about the car itself, rather than car plus its charging infrastructure. Fair enough sir!
But Tesla faults are less likely to occur but it's still random. So if I'm unlucky with a Model S but lucky with a Model 3 run, it could appear as the Model 3 is faster. Get my point?
yeah my car still beats all other cars, even if morw than double as expensive :) Tesla Model 3 LR rules! 😎👍 btw why did you deduce time for handshakes? that is part of the game, no? it is not a charging station thing but a car thing ... Update on this: just saw your extra video on the deduction in this video and now I understand: you explain there that you only deducted the delays which were the fault of the charging station. But you did not deduct time lost due to handshake probs, so I think that is fair...
@@bjornnyland is it really random when it happens every time lol Out of all the Tesla charging you have done over the years I think you had more problem in this video then all Tesla videos combined.
I think Porsche should have made the taycan a hybrid like the panamera, beautiful car but the hassle of trying to charge electric cars is ridiculous, how can anyone that’s using cars like these for work and business keep time management, ie business meetings, deals and other day to day obligations, the charging infrastructure is nowhere near good enough anywhere and not likely to be for a very long time
Good video but you shouldn't compare this car and a Model 3 in efficiency. This car is 30 cm longer, 10 cm wider and prepared for Off-Road so 15 cm free space under this car. This car is much heavier because of the size, security, performance and comfort. In a Model 3 you can load only 370 kg. If you drive with 4 adult persons you musn't load any baggage. Five persons in a Model 3 is possible only if they are very slim and light. In this car you can load 640 kg....These all is not good for range and efficiency.. it's a different car in a different market. Btw. The iX is 30 cm higher but has the same width and lenght (yes, it's very efficient for this size).
The way consumption is counted also varies. Tesla is not counting the whole consumption. When you stop Porsche in the jam you will see increasing consumption minute after minute, but not in Tesla.
@@rudyyyxu Real live example: TMYP and EV6 doing the same trip. Tesla has bigger battery capacity, shows lower consumptions (1kW less per 100kW than Kia) but consumes more %. How is it possible? In Taycan you see increasing consumption when waiting on red light. I don’t see it in Tesla.
@@pedrotravalero4605 I see my tesla consumption creep up in winter while in slow traffic with heater running all the time. Bjorn recently did a mythbuster video on this. The only time tesla stops counting is if you put it in park.
@@rudyyyxu I do my stats - summer is usually accurate. The colder it gets the bigger difference is in report vs % loss. Maybe the reason is lower capacity of cold battery?
yeah my car still beats all other cars, even if more than double as expensive :) Tesla Model 3 LR rules! 😎👍 btw why did you deduce time for handshakes? that is part of the game, no? if it is not a charging station thing but a car thing ... And soooo different to CZ: in Norway you are now at what, the fourth or fifth series of EV licence plates? while here in CZ we are still at the first ("EL") 😎
Three comments, (1) I disagree with deducting for handshake errors. If the car is bad at the handshake, then that should count in the timing. (2) I am writing this at the point you have 45 min deduction and you'll probably have more. That invalidates this test. I am surprised you don't just go home and try again. Totally useless data. (3) I can't believe there is a way to deactivate battery protection. You should NOT have battery protection OFF, as no owner would choose to potentially damage the battery. Time to go home and try again tomorrow (sorry).
I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t feel comfortable letting my wife or grandmother attempt a long range journey in an EV. It seems that you still have to deal with a lot of technical issues tbh…
@@georgepelton5645 Perhaps not but Teslas are not my taste and my wife hates them 😬 Am loving the development of EVs and maybe in 5-10 years I’ll buy one, once they’ve sorted out all the issues 😁
@@bbpleg I own two teslas and have no idea what issues you are talking about, they work perfectly and are great cars to drive. Both have been flawless.
What, no 270kwh charging every time all the time!?! you mean they overprommised? noow they would never do that. but you can choose to charge fast and break your car., never heard that during the marketing campaigns. :) all this lying by the fossil companies is gone give EV's a bad reputation :(
The important thing is consistency. As long as you deduct equally in all runs, it's fine. A real life test can't be reproduced and isn't clinical in any way. The "only" use for the test is comparing to the other cars, that has had the same test. You won't be able to use it to figure out how long it will take you to go 1000 km.
That's what I noticed too! That'll be a 100k+ car with pretty laggy tech. Although the exterior looks pretty modern, tesla still has the best tech I think.
Agreed. Glad Diess is throwing out the VW group software and starting from scratch. But, it's a massive job to catch up anywhere near Tesla and likely Hyundai/Kia and some Chinese companies likely too.
@@DouglasJMark I agree its a great move. I don't know what the plans are but depending on who they go to for the tech the catch up may well be pretty quick. Lets presume they go to Apple or an Android based system - most of the car based stuff is already there and has been well proven for years now. The VW stuff has been holding them back for ~5 years now since the latest version was rolled out. In house systems are all but gone now for this very reason. Let the car company do the car and the tech company do the tech.
