This channel deserves 500,000 subscribers NOW the amount of solid money saving information you give us in every video is off the scale THANK you Luke Trace Velo.
@@TraceVelo Haha..... I knew you would. I was watching, and thinking to myself, I bet he leaves that lever on that post 🤣🤣🤣. Oh, and changing the subject, have you had the new gravel groupset from Wheeltop yet?
@@ribblevalleycyclist LOL no, they never sent it to me. I mean I obviously dont know for sure, but I assume it was because I was quite critical of the EDS-TX. How is it though?
Full cable outers is an old pro trick Luke. I always drill out the stops and fit full cables. Lighter more accurate shifting that stays in adjustment longer. Cool. On a slightly different tack, if you get the chance, try the new version ZTTO cable/hybrid brake calipers, the mk 5 version. Night and day compared to previous. Ceramic pistons, improved leverage and oil ways, metallic pads all standard. I am so impressed I chucked of my hydraulic system and fitted these with Sensah shifting to all my bikes.
I've been searching for some good hybrid brake calipers. Happy to see this comment! Does anyone know how if there are any defining features that I can reference to so I can verify if the model I'm looking at is the mk5 version?
I have an Ltwoo R2 Shifter and RD (the cheapest Ltwoo road bike group set) for almost a year now.. used it for ~4000 Km with relatively minimal issues.. I broke the shifter hoods once but the replacement part is available on their shop.. the pins that hold the brake lever came loose once, I just put it back and it didn't come loose again.. Overall i have a good impression for this brand, easy to install and use. Very cheap and seemingly reliable.
There are cables housing called fish bone that are considered to be light. I think they would be the perfect solution to your problem with rear derailleur.
I've had RX and GRT, Sensah SRX no issues. Braking is phenomenal on the Ltwoo especially (SRX is on a turbo) and shifting is spot on. Only Erx i haven't tried yet due to the issues you and others had.
the negative is that if you were to use it bikepacking or on a trip, a bike shop will not have spares for it. for a road bike to use near home it is perfect, this makes me want to take a winter project of building my own bike.
It’s the same cable pull ratio, hydraulic fixtures and hose diameter as shimano, so no worries there. Perhaps the brake calipers are unique, but I don’t think that would be such a big deal as pushing hydraulic fluid is pretty much the same. For long distance touring, carrying your own spare brake pads would be sensible, but any other small parts such as brake or shift paddles from even a big company like shimano would usually be a special order item with most bike shops around the world. But I definitely understand the confidence issues with new component companies like this! Good idea to blast a cheap group set with winter conditions before trusting them on a mega tour.
Yo Luke, great video! I got the mechanical versions of these shifters for under £50 on AE and fitted them with a 105 groupset I had spare. I used the TRP HyRds as disc calipers and they work great! Look the business, too. The only thing I am not too fond of is the thumb shifter on the left for doing the trim position of the front mech. It feels far too subtle and I feel its too easy to accidently downshift the front mech rather than just trim to prevent chain rub as working up the rear cassette. I dont know whether you encountered this. I would find if I was trying to trim on even slightly bumpy UK roads, its a bit too easy to click all the way down. The 'click' is way too subtle and small. Other than this minor gripe, though, They are grand. Work great with 105, too. Very precise shifts! Have some 🥖🥖🥖🥖 for the road!
Why would you run naked cables through the plastic BB cable routing guide? Use the white tubing (Cable housing inner liner) that comes with frames to help route cables through the frame tubes, we call it "spaghetti" . Just cut a small segment of about 6cm in length, run the cable through it at the BB cable guide and you get smooth frictionless cable travel and weather proofing without the weight penalty of running full length outers. Kind of surprised you weren't doing this already if I'm being honest. Edit: Also, you get better feel and response with shorter lengths of cable outer. Compressionless outers are ok but they aren't nearly as resistant to compression as the lengths of exposed cable between solid cable stops.
My suggestion is when you are installing a manual groupo, you want to test the shifters cables RD/FDs connected together, before you route the cables through the frame. This will give you fair indication of how good the shifting is before you bend it through the bars and frame. Most mechanical shifting is compromised due to sharp angles and friction through the bars/frame......the point is to minimize the friction. You eventually found a way to minimize friction points significantly. If you had done what I suggest prior to install, you would have realize there was nothing wrong with the shifters and RD.....and that it was cable friction compromising performance. Cheers
Using a RISK slick lube catheter on the parts of the cables that are routed inside the frame might be helpful in lessening the friction, especially in the bottom bracket channel. That way you can keep the frame stops for water proofing.
I have a 105 on my main bike and also an R9 on my indoor cycling bike. My experience is pretty similar. The only caveat is that I'm not confident with the shifter levers. They look and feel thin and weak. So I rarely use 3 speed change.
And heres me just put together a small R7000 upgrade package (minus the brakes and BB) for an old Triban 540 for £444😂😂It would have been £364 originally then i found out through some deep research that my old and current set of BR-R650s wont play nice with the new R7000 shifters so grabbed some TRP RG957 off ebay for £80. I wanted a new bike to replace the Triban but it was cheaper just to upgrade the groupset instead. A 540 is still exceptionally nice compared to a lot of the bikes I saw on ebay and my local bike shop. LBS had a really nice Trek 1.2 Alpha in Crystal White/black but for £600 which I thought was pretty insane given the fact that it was a 2015 model and specc'd with 9 speed sora. A cosmetic upgrade over the 540 but not an upgrade where it matters....And im at the end of my rag with this old 105 5700. This bike has done its duty and its time to be reborn.
Such good timing, winter bike needs an upgrade from post mount mechanic disc after a few hairy moments too many and at this price getting some extra brake callipers makes it less painful.
On old Sram doubletap the continuous housing was gamechanger. Friend had some issues withs shifting and we solved it by routing full housing through the frame, it was very sensitive for cable routing. You should try it for front :)
The big catch is actually getting it. Every time I’ve tried to buy the latest l-Twoo group set some RU-vidr told me about it is never available or otherwise sold out. That’s a problem when you are in the middle of a bike build.
Yeah thats honestly the perfect use case. If you are racing, you'll probably need the extra 10% shifting performance offered by Shimano 105 or Ultegra. But for a more casual rider, it's a no-brainer IMO.
I don't care about number of speeds, for me today's Shimano 'people's road groupsets' are Sora and Tiagra. Tiagra 4700 is basically a 10-clicks production run of 105 5800 (hence the 11-speed pull ratio btw), they even look exactly the same. I also think there is value in having components where support, maintenance and spare parts are known quantities (at least if your crank arms don't self-dissasemble on you lol). I don't think AE products are really there yet, but maybe I'm wrong. Re: cable routing. Yes, you may have heard 'retro grouch' riders reporting how old-style brifter, with their outer gear cable routing, can shift better than modern brifters routing the gear cables under the bar tape. I do like the modern, clear aesthetics, but I'll admit it is an issue for mechanical groupsets.
I wonder if they update the GR9 groupset. I bought mine last year and clocked over 5000 km so far and it's also not perfect. For starters, the derailleur is rubbish. You can't adjust it to work properly on all the gears as its main and jockey springs are too stiff creating too much friction on the cable pull, even with the clutch taken out completely. I tested the other two models of GR9 derailleur, the older from the mechanical set, and the newer one for the hydraulic one but without the clutch and it was the same. It was only when I paired the brifters with grx 812 derailleur which has noticeably weaker springs I was able to adjust it to work properly on each gear, but still the cable tension is much stronger than e.g. in my Tiagra 4700 groupset, so you can forget about rapid and precise shifting in racing applications. And I also run the gear cable fully in the cable housing and I also have this issue of the third downshift in a single shifter throw, not jumping on the gear consistently. Also the campag style of shifting is not ergonomic at all. The upshift trigger is in an awkward position forcing you to twist your hand while on the hoods to reach it with your thumb. It is however very ergonomic to reach from the drops thanks to its elongated shape, but still you spend most of the time on the hoods. It's also possible to reach it fairly easy with your pinky finger from the tops. But all in all there is quite of mechanical resistance on it to actuate it. The breaks however work nice and are easy to bleed, but be careful with the bleed port bolts on the brifters. I had two sets of GR9 back to back with one of the bolts screwed in so tight that I could not crack it with the allen key as the bolt itelsf is badly nacgined, with too much play in the socket for the hex key. It is very easy to round it. Better use a T8 torx bit. I wonder if with these new R9s they rectified the rubber hoods because on my GR9 they feel slippery and not thst grippy when bare-handed. Only with gloves or if your bare hands get a bit sweaty they grip well.
Tbh, my 12s ultegra struggles shifting down from 13/12 all the time. In both big and little ring. Every other gear shifts instantly but those two cogs just never shift unless I double shift down and then back up one.
Instead of running the full outer cable, could you just strip off the outer casing and run the inner part through? I took a gear casing and cut off the outer part so I could replace the old one in my old bike as the gear cable went to the gear lever on the downtube, but I wanted to run a new cable to a bar end shifter on the ski pole. So instead of the spiral metal part as on brake cables, the gear cable metal is longitudinal tiny rods that I stripped away.
Not only the 105 lever is longer, but the mechanised surfaces are just crisper. Of course this will wear out, on my 105 11s it no longer is that crisp, after 18k
Giant has similar setup on the tcr and defy but the cable stops have like thin straw for inside housing that go all the way through the bottom bracket holder. I wonder if you are missing this special internal housing for your frame. One negative of these groupsets to me is the 11-32 max. Would be really nice if they could do 11-36. I'd guess you could take the latest 12 speed 105 derailleur and use that if you really want 11-36.
Chinese group sets are now at the point where you should compare them against each other. I think you should consider doing a side by side with the Sensha Empire group set. The thumb buttons is simply a deal killer for me for these shifters.
Cool thing about the RX (12s) version is they also use the Shimano 11 speed ratio, so you can take the RX Shifters and pair them with 11 SPEED Shimano Mechs's to get flawless (I know because I've done it) 12 speed mostly Shimano mechanical Ultegra or DA, and now LT-Woo have updated their rim brake versions to use the same shifter internals and match the ergonomics of their hydro ones you can get pretty close to a "Top Tier" fully mechanical 12 speed rim brake groupset, and make silly faces at all your Di2 friends lugging around heavy batteries with silver dinner plates attached to their hubs. (Only joking, you will have to take my Di2 Disc from my cold dead hands.......hands that don't ache on long rides).
Hi Luke, do you believe changing the giant conduct system on my TCR with only a pair of L-twoo levers if really an upgrade? Or do you feel the performance in shifting AND braking is more or less the on the same level? Great video btw!!!
Yeah this is a fair point. It doesnt come with a chain, cassette, or crankset, but even if you added legitimate 105 R7000 parts on top it would still be better value. Adding a chain £15, crankset £70, and cassette £35, that still comes to around £260
I wonder if shifting performance would have been improved if you had used that plastic cable liner tubing at the bottom bracket section? I'm not even sure that tubing stuff is used much any more, but I used to use it on some bikes that had exposed cables and routing under the BB. The old plastic bottom bracket cable holders can be slick, but that tubing is usually made to be extra slick for cables. Not sure where you can get it anymore.
if i groupset like this what im going to do is to change the caliper of this to a Shimano non series hydraulic calipers if it fits and change the hydraulic hose with Shimano as well
got myself 12s di2 105 for 500GBP to build gravel bike and I wish you could do the same as l-twoo with their eRX which is ,,just pick between 9s and 13s,,
Man .. that info with frame stops? Wow... I was always thinking why my 105 on my Reacto feels much better then my Ultegra/grx on my Addict CX... Well this may be the reason? Thanks! I'll try it ❤️
Could you be convinced to look at the R3 2x8 and 2x9 hydraulic and mechanical shifters? Or would you think theyre the downrated version of these and thus very similar?
I upgraded from tiagra/sora system to sensah team pro/105 (for a total of maybe 400usd) and that is like going from a sunny vacation in Greenland to the beaches of Greece.. There is value to find in the east!
Hi Luke, I'd love to see if the problem would be fixed as well, if you use the a liner on the exposed length. My thinking being it would still be significantly lighter and you can set up the rest as intended... Love your videos! And btw ordered my first sirocco gear and it looks and feel great but the jerseys roll up a little to easily in my opinion.
Hi Luke, do I understand correctly? The price for the LTWOO group-set is WITHOUT cranks. Maybe adding the crank would make the difference in price a bit less evident ... or?
Yeah this is a fair point. It doesnt come with a chain, cassette, or crankset, but even if you added legitimate 105 R7000 parts on top it would still be better value. Chain £15, crankset £70, and cassette £35, that comes to around £260
I love my GR9, Sadly my rd grenaded it’s mounting bolt, and It gave me an annoying time setting up with my gears, which made me switch a new cassette and chain and still acting crazy, Bit the bullet and grabbed a new chain and cassette, cassette was a Mocroshift, oh and add in a GRX820 rd from ali express, better much more better. 😁😁
Hey luke, i have an r7000 groupset on my bike with trp hy/rds. i really want to upgrade to full hydraulic brakes so i am considering buying the r7020 levers and 1 zrace XG and 1 zrace X2 calipers from aliexpress (as my rear brake mount is post mount and doesnt fit any adapters). i have already seen your video on the zrace calipers but i want to know how they have held up. could you please give me an update on the calipers? I really want to know how they compare to the Shimano RS505 calipers that you also reviewed. Greatly appreciate it. Awesome video as always. Thanks
So yeah those ZRACE calipers have been totally fine, however they did have that random washer inside, which was a bit odd. If you can find them, the iiiPro calipers are virtually identical, but seem to be a little better. The RS505 calipers are probably ever so slightly better in terms of their finishing and build quality, but I didnt notice any difference in terms of braking performance...
I must say, you're selling it really well! I'm afraid of the campag thumb shift system. I've only used Shimano and SRAM style shifting. How is it and should I worry about it? Because other than that, it's a very compelling offer. Also, can you route the hose all the way to the front derailleur, or is it only for the rear derailleur?
So yeah, for a set of mechanical disc brakes, they were pretty awesome. They follow the same basic design as the TRP-HYRD calipers, so they have a separate oil reservoir, and I think they only cost me like £35 for the pair...
I snagged the GR9 and run the full cable for shifting, can’t believe how good these group sets are. I also picked up a spare R7 mechanical for $120au to run with compression less housing on Hy/Rd caliper, and both are truely amazing. My new go to group sets at a 10th of the price, Ltwoo for the home mechanic for sure 😊
How do they compare with the sensah team pro stuff? I was considering the sensah STI's w/Shimano R7000 mechs for a new winter build... but may have a look at this.. (i dont like thumb shifters.... ) I'm on rim brakes.. (kool stop salmons are fine in wet.. )
i wonder if the shifter will work with the shimano cues 11 spd mtb rear mech? would be cool if it did can do more messing with my mtb drop bar frankenbike.
Since the braking system is using the bh59, i'm assuming it would not be possible to use LTWoo's shifters with 105 disc calipers? I bought the 105 groupset for around 250 second hand, and I like it's swift smooth shifting but I wish they had free stroke adjustment as I like my braking to bite with as little travel as possible. Wonder if I can get your opinion on that for this groupset's shifters. Also I'd worry about the consumables like the hood covers. They don't seem to be an option to buy as a spare if they need replacing in future.
Yeah i've tried this in the past with grease, WD40, all sorts. It works for a few rides, but it tends to attract dirt and grit, so in the end always seems to make the problem worse... As long as you can avoid sharp 90 degree bends, running the cable housing all the way through was genuinely a game changer for shifting feel and performance!
Luke! you are to blame for my tinkering with groupset hahaha. thanks for all you do and your videos are awesome! 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖 Quick question: do you have a resource for determining if a shifter from X is compatible with a derailleur from Y etc? I am aware of gear pull ratios etc. I have a set of Sram Apex 11 hydraulic shifters What derailleur can be paired with them for example.
Thanks Jeanne!!! So yeah if you google 'cable pull ratio compatibility', there are loads of recources, but i have this page bookmarked for reference: bike.bikegremlin.com/1278/bicycle-rear-derailleur-compatibility/
@@TraceVelo Thanks dude I'll check it out. Enjoyed the bonus clip. would also do that in the future. perhaps some hotglue at the back to plug the hole until next cable run?
@@jeanne-michaelduplessis Yeah honestly, running the cable housing all the way through was an absolute game changer!! I think it will be especially helpful for the cheaper groupsets, as the return springs in the derailleurs are never quite as stout as the ones used by Shimano... As for the hole in the frame at the back, i actually managed to find a rubber bung that fits perfectly!
