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Poverty: Moral Dilemma - Why You Might NOT Save A Child From Drowning - Learn Liberty 

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Would you lose $500 to save a drowning child? We explore a thought experiment that just may save someone's life. Learn more: www.bit.ly/1El... Imagine you're walking to work in the morning down a quiet rural road to the side of the road there's a pond and pass by every day. Only today, something is different. Today you see a small child in that pond.
He is alone, he’s flailing his arms, and if you don't act quickly it looks like he is going to drown. Luckily, the pond is shallow. You can wade in, grab the child, and bring him to safety without putting yourself in any danger at all.
Unluckily, you're wearing a very expensive set of clothes, and there just isn't enough time to take them off. So even though saving the child is perfectly safe, it is going to cost you at least $500 to replace your suit and shoes. There’s no one else around, so the decision is yours alone to make. Do you wade in, save the child, and ruin your expensive clothes? Or do you decide that $500 just too high a price to pay for the life of someone you don't even know and walk on by.
If you’re like most people the answer is obvious. Of course you save the child. Anyone that would would let us small child die just to keep their nice clothes from getting wet would be a moral monster. As peter singer, the philosopher who originated this drowning child thought experiment argued, if you had the power to prevent something really bad from happening to someone else just by suffering something merely slightly bad yourself, then “taking the hit” is the right thing to do.
Now of course most of us will never come across a drowning child on her way to work but all of us do find ourselves living in a world where over six million children die each year from preventable causes. And while none of us have the power to help all of those children, almost all of us have the power to help some of them. By donating a small amount of money much less than $500 to an effective charity through a site like GiveWell.org (Www.Givewell.Org/) you could literally save someone's life. But that brings up another question.
How do we make sure aid efforts do the most good and the least harm? In my next few videos i’ll be exploring different approaches to solving the problem of poverty. Watch more: bit.ly/1Elqazl
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5 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 262   
@bigred2989
@bigred2989 9 лет назад
We can care deeply - selflessly - about those we know, but that empathy rarely extends beyond our line of sight.
@aliensinnoh1
@aliensinnoh1 9 лет назад
What show or movie did I hear that on?
@aliensinnoh1
@aliensinnoh1 9 лет назад
Interstellar
@bigred2989
@bigred2989 9 лет назад
William Stockhecker Yes.
@supersonicdickhead374
@supersonicdickhead374 9 лет назад
bigred2989 it's worked pretty well for us. Fewer people live in poverty than ever before and this has always been the trend. It's actually an exponential curve roughly parallel to technological advancement. I don't know but it doesn't seem crazy to think there is a mathematical "ideal community size" for homo sapiens, that would have evolved through natural selection. For 99% of human history we had no clue what was going on 5 miles away never mind around the world.
@jaakkoneuvo7797
@jaakkoneuvo7797 4 года назад
So, it's morally right not to help anyone you don't happen to care deeply about?
@dakotabrewer688
@dakotabrewer688 4 года назад
Who else is here because their professor made them watch it. XD
@seansingh8862
@seansingh8862 3 года назад
In the late 90s, I studied philosophy at Monash University, right after Singer's departure to Princeton. And although the lecturers who filled his shoes were nothing short of excellent, I still regret not starting that course one year earlier and getting taught directly by someone who is a legend in his time.
@itchynights
@itchynights 7 лет назад
the analogy is only accurate if every single day you walk to work you see hundreds of children drowning. do you then devote your life to pulling children out of the water, or is it enough to only help one or two each day and let the rest die? that's the philosophical question at stake.
@anliqi7750
@anliqi7750 4 года назад
Yes!!!! Thank YOU!
@sofija642
@sofija642 Год назад
But you aren't devoting your life to it... When you donate you don't lose much time and you're sacrificing luxuries you can live without. Can you compare spending all your life doing nothing but helping children get out of the pond to taking a couple minutes to give away the money to charity that you would've used to buy a new car, even though the car you have, while maybe not as good, is still working perfectly fine?
@jennylin5553
@jennylin5553 Год назад
@@sofija642 The pond analogy as Singer describes it is an emergency scenario that an individual is likely to come across one time in their entire life and the individual who jumped in the pond knew the cost of doing so and also knew that what he was doing would alleviate that persons suffering as a whole. Global poverty is an ongoing evil and one cannot donate to the issue and fix anything. Moreover, his analogy in the beginning makes one obligated to spend their entire life giving to charities which has so many implications.
@rusharnmal7425
@rusharnmal7425 9 лет назад
There are a few problems extending Singer's Dilemma to children starving or being killed on the other side of the world. In Singer's dilemma there are a few assumptions most people will make. I would say a common assumption is that the 500$ loss is a one time loss for a one time event for a healthy child that will live a long time without further assistance or interaction from the rescuer. The results of the action are immediate and clear. You lose your suit the child is saved. Now with a charity the results from what you donate to the charity are never clear. Also you do not know if your aid will extend a child's life 40 years, 30 years, 5 years, or a mere few days, and at what point do you cut off that charity to the child who's life you have prolonged? How effectively is the charity using your money? There is no clear outcome to your donation. You cannot reasonably compare the two scenarios.
@jackmcslay
@jackmcslay 9 лет назад
The fact is, there is no true selflessness. When you jump into the lake to save the child, you're not actually pursuing what's right, you are pursuing the mental well being that comes with saving the child even if it comes to the cost of your expensive suit.
@Waterd103
@Waterd103 9 лет назад
Jack Mcslay Totally agree with this. The reason we save the child is because its close and we would feel it to close to home, it would send red sirens to our empathy. Someone on another part of the world that i dont know? it doesnt raise flags, so i dont. Some sicko should setup a site where you enter with your credit card and you get a videocam of a child dying and tell you ¨PUT 500 bucks or this child dies in a few minutes¨ DO YOU ACCEPT? if you put no, you see the child dying. Now you have effective charity.
@webdesignerguy
@webdesignerguy 9 лет назад
+Jack Mcslay So what about the people who sacrifice their lives to save others? What about the person who takes a bullet for someone else, or gives up their seat in a life raft on a sinking ship? Are they also just pursuing some mental state?
@jackmcslay
@jackmcslay 9 лет назад
John T Yes because they choose to die instead of having to live with the burden that someone died because of their selfishness.
@webdesignerguy
@webdesignerguy 9 лет назад
Jack Mcslay The reason they would feel guilt is that they genuinely cared about that other person. Humanity couldn't have evolved as a social species without human beings having empathy, and genuinely caring about the well being of other human beings.
@TheNavalAviator
@TheNavalAviator 9 лет назад
+Jack Mcslay An ugly truth revealed by Ayn Rand.
@dwighthouse
@dwighthouse 9 лет назад
The analogy fails because of some overlooked details. First, a child drowning in front of you exists in your country. You do not have to take national sovereignty into account. If the child you saw drowning was not drowning in a pond, but on the other side of a river bordering Mexico, you might have a legal and safety reason not to save that same child. Second, it is difficult, if not impossible to ensure that donated funds get distributed correctly and legally in a country for which the rule of law does not apply in the same way it does in America, and that assumes that the charity is legitimate, efficient, and effective (also a very difficult task). Africa is a prime example of how foreign aid of food, medicine, and money has propped up dictators, not made long-term (and sometimes even short term) improvements in the lives of the individual citizens of those countries. Third, in those countries with legitimate democracies, where the people decide their leaders and their government's policies, any significant poverty not caused by natural disasters can be placed firmly at the feet of the citizens and their choices. As such, aiding them amounts to little more than encouraging future bad decisions, since we will have removed or softened the negative incentives of bad behavior. I donate a lot of money and occasionally my time to charity. However, I do not think for a second that this will have any meaningful impact on the history of the world. Technological advancement has done more to improve the material quality of life for all humans, especially the poor, more than any help or aid ever has or can. First with the industrial revolution, then with the advancements that lead to high yield crops, a modern understanding of medicine and chemistry, and now even information is reaching saturation thanks to the information age. Very soon, material poverty will be impossible outside of forced starvation and other tyranny thanks to advancements in 3D printing and related technologies that will turn raw materials directly into consumable goods at little to no cost. Do not focus on helping people. Focus on getting out of the way of those creators who will push technology forward. You will get your poverty alleviation as a byproduct.
@terradraca
@terradraca 9 лет назад
The moral dilemma neglects many other factors. First of all, I'm pretty sure most people would happily compensate the loss of the suit to someone who saved a child's life anyway so the cost isn't as great, especially when one considers the benefit that saving the child would have to one's reputation. More important, by not saving the child, you would also be placing your reputation at great risk. What if someone noticed your actions and told the local papers about it? You'd suffer far greater loss than just a suit for certain. In economics, gotta look at the unseen as well as the seen or you're not playing with a full deck. Positive moral obligations generally don't logically work unless there was prior agreement. Is it immoral if I decline to donate to save someone? First of all, everyone has someone they didn't help and suffered for it. Nobody can help everyone. What if I don't know about this person? What if I'm physically unable to donate for any reason? What if someone closer to me is in more immediate danger and I help them instead? Now, if I'm on a boat, a child falls off and I say "Stay back, I'll handle this" and then don't actually save the child. NOW I'm being immoral because I commited myself to the act and didn't follow through on it and by doing so, I probably denied that child help because others reasonably assumed I was going to save the child. This is often called the "man in a coma" rule. A man in a coma obviously cannot be said to be acting immorally. Therefore any moral claim which would qualify the man in a coma as being immoral cannot be valid.
@Kumaryoku
@Kumaryoku 9 лет назад
So... you suggest unless someone commits to something we should treat him as if he's in coma?
@artemiswyrm4249
@artemiswyrm4249 9 лет назад
Read the whole post, not just the last paragraph
@bernkbestgirl
@bernkbestgirl 9 лет назад
Lord Hawkeye Not really an objection. Singer could just rephrase the claim to "if you are able to, you ought to help the child". Which is most likely what he would do, considering that he is a classical utilitarian.
@shlockofgod
@shlockofgod 9 лет назад
Lord Hawkeye Positive moral obligations have to be chosen. If they are not chosen then that means you're born owing every stranger your time and labor and they in turn owe YOU. Everyone is slaved to everyone else.
@terradraca
@terradraca 9 лет назад
shlockofgod Exactly, it can't be consistently applied or enforced so it can't be valid.
@YamiShadowKitty
@YamiShadowKitty 9 лет назад
Singer's argument is an extremely interesting argument, one which I think can actually be addressed in multiple different ways. One such interesting argument is made by Ayn Rand-- she argues that there is a difference between the 'morality of emergencies' and the morality we apply on a day to day basis. Altruism is an attempt to extend our emergency behaviour into the everyday, and it is for this reason that she thinks one can help another person in the state of emergency simply because they're human and be held morally accountable for it-- but not be held morally accountable for simply not getting involved in every case of poverty and disease that crops up, because short of epidemics a disease is pretty normal and poverty is something which is simply going to happen with any economic system. Of course, even acknowledging that Rand is right and agreeing that the day to day differs from times of emergency (this is pretty obvious, after all; being on a sinking Titanic isn't exactly the same thing as getting a cold or having fiscal troubles individually), I think many of us would still agree that we have a problem with leaving everyone out to lunch. For this reason we could certainly donate to charity of our own accord, because our personal desire is to help these people, whether we're obligated to or not. (This is especially important if you believe in free will, given that a volitional action holds a very different mean from an action made under threats or force.) What this gives us is a very strong argument against the redistribution philosophies of anti-capitalists, while still a way to retain the argument that we do care for people, because we do care for people. Beyond this, I think that there are more ways to help the poor than even charity and taxation. Taxation being a kind of theft is an important thing to remember, but I'm sure many people will argue for its practicality even in the face of its immorality, which is a prime reason why we need to demonstrate that there are multiple alternatives that can be applied and will have a similar or better impact. Charity is a good thing and every penny does help, but that doesn't necessarily make it the only volitional method. Another thing we could do is promote an overarching policy which does less to prevent the hiring of employees. Sure, those big rich one-percenters have a lot of money they're not spending and so they could "afford" to hire more people than they're hiring. But there are more costs put on them for hiring you than just your monthly paycheck, especially during the initial hiring process. The point of hiring someone is to add their efforts to your own and your staff's to increase overall profits-- it's hard to justify this when there's so much expense and legalese to get through before the new employee can even start contributing to your mutual interests, a problem which plagues small to medium businesses more than even big businesses. These additional costs, on top of pay rates, are calculated into the hiring process's cost-benefit ratio. Cut down on these, and even if a substantial addition is made to the pay of staff you'll have a much lower cost to match up against the opposing benefits side of the scale. Part of why Ford could pay his company enough that everyone was the equivalent of lower-upper-class today is because he didn't have a lot of these additional costs. One of his motives was that it lowered employee turnover rate-- something which is still a factor today, I agree, but not the only factor. It would be too limited to suggest that the low pay given to employees is "just" because companies suddenly don't have the foresight and self interest that Ford had. The truth of the matter is more so that there are fiscal limitations on what can actually be done about forethought when so many other costs now exist.
@mbevks
@mbevks 9 лет назад
Proximity matters. We have a greater obligation to those closest to us. A parent is more responsible for their child than they are for a stranger. We are more responsible for an elderly neighbor than an old man 12 time zones away. The homeless in my own city are my caring obligation before the homeless three towns away. This is all part of the concept of subsidiarity. Matters ought to be handled by the smallest, lowest or least centralized competent authority, which lends itself to taking care of those in our own domain who we have the ability to tend to.
@sofija642
@sofija642 Год назад
Okay so do you instead of buying new clothes use that money to give to the poor in your area?
@paulwebb2078
@paulwebb2078 9 лет назад
Damn it Learn Liberty, now I have to donate to charity to feel like a good person.
@danielpealer3561
@danielpealer3561 9 лет назад
Sean Fronteras But can you be sure that the charity you choose will do more good than harm?
@blaxerx
@blaxerx 7 лет назад
Save the child, pretend to hurt yourself in the process. Call the press and advertise your heroism along with how noble you are. Write a book, take interviews. Give speeches. Charge everyone for the story you tell. Exactly what this video is doing. It's all about marketing dollars. Totally worth it now.
@ZelenoJabko
@ZelenoJabko 5 лет назад
One difference - the drowning child belongs to the ingroup - same race, same nationality, same country. This is why people care much more. Also, it's in front of their eyes.
@sealplayz9329
@sealplayz9329 5 месяцев назад
The question is at what points do you no longer have a moral obligation to give to charity? If you could live in average conditions or live in poor conditions but help dozens of children, do you have a moral obligation to live in poverty to save those lives? What about investments? You could alternatively compound your wealth and give a much greater amount to charity from your will. The fact is that global charity is complicated and humans aren’t wired to handle it, so it makes more sense to handle charity primarily on a local scale.
@Tyler-hf4uc
@Tyler-hf4uc 9 лет назад
$500 for a suit and shoes? Someone's gotta give him a GQ magazine!
@brynolf11
@brynolf11 9 лет назад
The difference between the children in Africa and the one in that pond is that the latter can ONLY be saved by me, as I'm the only one close enough to make it in time. I can't walk by thinking "someone else could do it" or "the government should do it".
@duo1666
@duo1666 9 лет назад
At the end of the day, Money is obtained by voluntarily giving up a portion of your very own life (time spent working). You cannot force someone to give up some of their own life to help someone else that they cannot see nor confirm. It is easy to walk into a pond to rescue someone drowning (At least acting to do so, actually saving them is risky and hard, but not the point). It is not easy to wager some of your life on promises that someone somewhere will hopefully be saved eventually, especially when you can benefit yourself with something tangible.
@recynd77
@recynd77 9 лет назад
I wonder how much Peter Singer's charitable donations are each year...
@88michaelandersen
@88michaelandersen 9 лет назад
recynd77 I bet he has significant donations ... to the Peter Singer foundation.
@Schrodinger_
@Schrodinger_ 5 лет назад
It's most of what he makes, in fact. He's a very well-off tenured professor who likely makes mid six figures, and lives off less than $40k a year.
@chbrules
@chbrules 9 лет назад
Government is immoral force to boot, so having them take our money to give to charities is not a moral effort. It devalues the act of charity to begin with, as you have no choice in the matter. On the other hand, private individuals and businesses donating to charities is great, as it's voluntary and a direct donation to the cause, weeding out as much overhead as possible (see gov bureaucracy).
@UnknownXV
@UnknownXV 9 лет назад
The problem is we confuse emotion for morality. Emotionally you're pulled to help the kid drowning. Morally however, there is no obligation to do so. Even if you just don't want to get wet. By not helping, you neither make the situation worse, nor improve it for the kid. Given you didn't put him in the water yourself, you're entirely neutral.
@qiuyushi2752
@qiuyushi2752 3 года назад
I’m literally just browsing through the comments to find an answer and this is a great answer :)
@CaptainLazerus
@CaptainLazerus 9 лет назад
Singer is wrong. The drowning child is personal and the effects of the aid are immediate and unambiguous. Giving to a charity is impersonal and ambiguous. Taxation is theft via implied violence, and supposes that it is possible to increase the overall wealth of a population by stealing from some parts of it to give to others. Not to mention that gov't adds another entire layer of ambiguity.
@tohopes
@tohopes 9 лет назад
This is precisely why decency (anti-nudity) laws must go.
@aliensinnoh1
@aliensinnoh1 9 лет назад
He didn't have time to take off the suit..
@tohopes
@tohopes 9 лет назад
William Stockhecker you miss the point. the problem is that he was wearing anything to begin with.
@ikendusnietjij2
@ikendusnietjij2 9 лет назад
tohopes Quite the jump, but it makes a wonderful comment ;)
@L33TNINJA51
@L33TNINJA51 9 лет назад
Does a drowning child (obviously helpless) represent accurately what the poor are in the U.S.? How many of those poor are actually as helpless as a drowning child?
@tiedyetshirt
@tiedyetshirt 2 года назад
since the video didn't say the poor people had to be in the US, i'm assuming they mean poor people globally
@tiedyetshirt
@tiedyetshirt 2 года назад
some of whom could be said to be as helplessnas the drowning child
@nustada
@nustada 9 лет назад
I think the saved child should be in debt to the savior, at the going interest rate to cover cost of goods and some compensation for discomfort and reward. So there would be an incentive to help the poor, and an additional incentive for potential victims to avoid peril. That way even sociopaths would be inclined to help, and people can wave off the debt if they feel charitable.
@spldrong
@spldrong 2 года назад
I dont see a drowning child.... I see a child who was never taught to swim, a child whose parents were not responsible/moral/able to swim enough to help. Giving money is cool, but i dont trust that my dollar is going far, i would rather volunteer as a lifeguard or even better, have kids myself and teach them how to swim.
@dabossman5650
@dabossman5650 3 года назад
I feel like its different when its 24/7 because how can you be expected to constantly save ppl and the world ALL the time-if you just see one person in the water its p easily done and wont happen very often
@RJ-Isaac-TSOML
@RJ-Isaac-TSOML 9 лет назад
The to situations, the kid drowning and a kid starving in a 3rd world country are different for several reasons: 1) For the kid that is drowning, you are their only hope, there are no other people around and nobody else to help save him, only your immediate action. The kid that is starving has all of the first world to look to for help and immediate action isn't required. 2) With the kid that is drowning, there is only 1 kid compared to the millions that are starving. 3) The kid that is drowning requires a single 1 time action where as feeding a starving child is a long term commitment. 4) With the kid that is drowning, you don't have to worry about people stealing the assistance you provide whereas it is common place in 3rd world countries. There is no moral equivalency.
@Thomasfboyle
@Thomasfboyle 9 лет назад
Firstly, helping people is great and this video points out good ideas like charity and living modestly. There is a big difference between a lake where only you can help and six million children who have to have more than just you to rely on. You don't have the same moral guilt if you are not directly responsible for a life. So there IS some difference. Also, even if you walk by a child drowning in a pond, where are their supervisor? There parents or caretakers have some responsibility for not watching a child closely enough or not teaching the child well enough not to go wandering off into a lake, in which case not only should you save the child from the immediate drowning but also, if you really care about the child's life, see what the problem is with the uncaring parents. So how responsible are you to the child? Do you only save them from the water and lose the fancy clothes? Or do you go so far as to lose your own time into trying to help some misguided parents as well?
@Stonegoal
@Stonegoal 9 лет назад
I'm not going to ruin my $500 suit, I didn't hear or see any child in the pond. Honesty(selective seeing and hearing)
@Jimraynor45
@Jimraynor45 9 лет назад
There is difference between saying you should save a drowning child and saying that saving a drowning child is a good thing. For example, the assumption here seems to be that we _should_ save the child, but what are the actual reasons we should? Is it because the child's life has value, or is it because it would be easy for us? I can accept those reasons, but let's say someone decided to save the child only because he thought he might get a reward. Or how about he only saved the child because he wanted to molest him/her? ..Should they save the child still?...and would it be still considered a good thing...? In my opinion, these questions have no answers. If were talking about a potential molester saving a child, then perhaps death could be a better alternative than a life of molestation. Maybe the child is actually trying to drown himself. Anyway, what I am trying to say is that moral questions like this can't be easily answered, even though we'd really like to think it has a easy answer. We don't have all the context and we cannot presume to know all the relevant details at hand. As for the question of whether or not this could be considered a good thing to save the child. It depends on what the actual value of the person's time, shoes and clothing is. Their value may not merely be in their cost, but what they could do. For example, perhaps before you saved the child, you were on your way to a important meeting in which the lives of hundreds of people could be at stake. And by destroying your clothes and taking the time to save the child, you've destroyed that opportunity and hundreds may suffer or lose their lives as a result. ...Should you still save the child? It is not for me to decide. This is a value judgement that each of us must decide on our _own_ to decide. Unlike what Singer may say, there is no such thing as an objective moral truth. It could be perfectly plausible that by letting the boy drown, that you would actually save more lives as a result. If were being objective here, we must consider this possibility.
@nevernoone
@nevernoone 8 лет назад
Like
@ColinTherac117
@ColinTherac117 6 лет назад
#nolivesmatter #wubbalubbadubdub
@tohopes
@tohopes 9 лет назад
It's not an issue of moral obligation, in either case. You are not obligated to jump into a pond to save a drowning child, even if it seems obvious that most people would choose to do so.
@2000willsome
@2000willsome 9 лет назад
It is interesting to hear this argument from Singer, who would also argue that it may not be immoral for a parent to drown their child if that child was found to have some retardation.
@256shadesofgrey
@256shadesofgrey 9 лет назад
I think the best solution would be to cut funding for medical help in 3rd world countries, and increase funding for education. That way there would be fewer, but more educated people, who are able to generate more resources for a smaller population, resulting in a bigger share per capita. But that's another moral dilemma that won't work for anyone who cares about public opinion, because nowadays people don't care about what works, only about what feels right.
@keith-ole
@keith-ole 4 года назад
My favorite charity is GiveDirectly. They utilize direct cash transfers to help those most in need. Very little overhead and an idea that stimulates not destroys the free market.
@drthmik
@drthmik 9 лет назад
"Love your neighbor as yourself" has been around a LOT longer than some guy named Singer
@nustada
@nustada 9 лет назад
drthmik I am pretty sure I would go to jail if I loved my neighbor as I love myself.
@Schrodinger_
@Schrodinger_ 5 лет назад
This is a very different point than your quote. Singer argues that the lives of those across the world are not inherently less valuable than those of your neighbors. This is in direct contrast to the origin of your quote, Leviticus, which specifically instructs you to treat those from other nations differently. For example, it says you may own captives from other nations as slaves for life.
@donstacy7012
@donstacy7012 8 лет назад
Thanks for the introduction to the givewell.org website.
@xTitan1
@xTitan1 9 лет назад
I guess my objection is that in the thought experiment, the only person that can save the child is you. In the case of charity, it's not clear that specifically your donation is the only way that someone can be helped. It's similar to why CPR classes always say to specifically choose someone to go call 911 instead of commanding an entire group of bystanders, as in the latter case no one will do it (they assume someone else will). Does that make it okay? I don't know, it seems to simply be the way the human brain works and therefore is more amoral than immoral.
@TruffleSeeker54
@TruffleSeeker54 8 лет назад
I don't think we have a moral obligation to give money to charities, especially not the government. As seen from your other video, America is trillions of dollars in debt, and giving away taxpayer money to people in other countries would financially cripple us. If a man is right in front of you, begging for food, buy him something to eat. But if a charitable organization begs for money, how are you sure its not a scam? How much will you really be helping the starving children? If you do something like buy Tom's shoes, then you are actually hurting their economy, because the people who make shoes in Africa are losing business. Its just more complicated than saving a drowning child. I think the best way to help those in poverty, is to teach them valuable skills, so that they are capable of supporting themselves. Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, but if you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.
@mikisenx
@mikisenx 9 лет назад
Every day we all make the decision that it's okay for people to be hungry and live on the streets. We could make food and invite people in our homes to sleep on our couches etc. But we don't. And I don't. Therefore I accept this poverty.
@nevernoone
@nevernoone 8 лет назад
Like
@mscheffer80
@mscheffer80 7 лет назад
No, it's not the same, and all analogies break down eventually. In one situation you have direct responsibility, and your selfless/altruistic nature will instinctually kick in. Additionally, your actions have social repercussions. In the other situation you're delegating responsibility and action to a third party. There are degrees to moral/ethical "obligations." Proximity and expectations are issues. People die every day, and when a family member dies, I'll be sad, may cry, and will be partly responsible for funeral arrangements. When an "anonymous" someone dies over in Australia, I'm not sad, I don't cry, and I'm not "expected" to take care of the burial plot. There are better justifications for taking care of others overseas. I don't think this analogy is helpful in doing more than placing a guilt-trip on people (i.e. You're not helping a drowning child!). Recognizing our inter-connectedness as humans on a shared planet is a better starting point --we are in this together, and our actions affect others.
@TheKaffeeKlatsch
@TheKaffeeKlatsch 9 лет назад
You have no responsibility to others ( beyond your own children) jumping in to save a drowning child carries a risk to ones own life. What if the bottom was slick and the child climbs on top of you to save himself? Then I'm a strong believer in natural selection. If you can't swim stay away from the water. What responsibility does the child have for their own life? I was a lifeguard who has rescued people, and I've taught swimming. I'm just making a philosophical point.
@capnbilll2913
@capnbilll2913 5 лет назад
There are countries where saving another's child could be the worst thing you do. You could be charged with a criminal act, touching the child without the parent's permission, or even charged with feeding the child the rest of its life. In a civilized country the parents would be grateful, sadly in many 3rd world countries that is not the case.
@gobgoble
@gobgoble 9 лет назад
Though it may sound insane to some, I believe an individual only has a moral obligation to themselves, and to not directly be the cause of harm to others. This is to say that it is morally ok to walk on by the drowning child, while going into the pond to save him is merely a supererogatory action. If this is not the case, Singer is right and people have a moral obligation to give to the poor in such a way that few Americans do. If Singer is right, we have a moral obligation to help others all the time and most actions, time, and money spent on ourselves is immoral, which to many sounds unreasonable.
@ALC100percent
@ALC100percent 3 года назад
It's more like I am giving somebody money and he tells me he saves the drowning child, but it is impossible for me to know if he really does it.
@albancal2002
@albancal2002 2 года назад
Aid can be such a pervert phenomenon if not applied properly. People can just become dependent on aid and trapped in a never-ending poverty spiral. To me, the real and effective aid is the investment : do you want to help poor children in Africa ? How about starting a business ? Thus, you hire people, you pay them, help with the education of their children, help the local businesses by aumenting the purchase power, inspire other young entrepreneurs etc.
@AndersHass
@AndersHass 9 лет назад
Sound is too low but I guess I should be happy for that because it is him
@wsc31
@wsc31 9 лет назад
"You can't save all the puppies in the pound."
@nustada
@nustada 9 лет назад
Dan Troop But you can buy the pound, build a walking trial and sell refreshments for people who borrow puppies. Or you could rent them to old folks homes and day care. Or you can turn then into smoked jerky (just kidding).
@theredscourge
@theredscourge 9 лет назад
+nustada Good idea. Could export that Dog jerky to Indonesia, and maybe save children from starving to death. Two birds with one stone!
@angeladavis638
@angeladavis638 3 года назад
Actually in this case u can
@Liveitlarge247
@Liveitlarge247 4 года назад
So what if I could give all my money to charity right now and save x amount of people, or I could invest my money, and eventually use a small fraction of that money to start an enterprise that saves (2x)^2 people over time? So then what if instead of any of that, the cost of saving people falls over time. If I give now, I save x people, but if I wait until next year, I save x+x/10 people? One more year and it's x+x/5 people, a few years later it's more than 2x people How do I ever justify helping anybody with money right now, if I could achieve a larger effect in absolute terms absolute in the future using the same money?
@akale2620
@akale2620 3 года назад
Most charities are scams. That 500$ suit is ruined but "YOU" have literally saved that child. Give that same 500 to a charity, & they'll collect such 500$ donations from a lotta people then pool it and actually spend say 500 to save one child while lining their own pockets with the rest.
@greenessR
@greenessR 8 лет назад
they should've made the kid drowning look at least a little bit more realistic, looks like hes tickling hte air or somehting lol
@FabledNarrative
@FabledNarrative 8 лет назад
I don't like the "Government" being "Charitable" bit, though this is an inquisitive Video. You are allowed the option to make your own conclusion. THAT I respect.
@shlockofgod
@shlockofgod 9 лет назад
The fact that it's a child in the scenario (as if that makes a difference) gives away that this is a fallacious appeal to emotion and not a sound argument. If you go to Matt Zwolinski's article you will see at no point does he put forward any sound argument for why saving the child is, as he claims, a positive moral obligation that is enforceable through violence. "It’s reasonable to think..." is not an argument. The person who doesn't save the child is most likely an insanely horrible prick but doesn't mean they have a moral obligation to save it. They don't. It's social justice emotional nonsense like this that has left millions in poverty even after decades and trillions of dollars of spending in trying to solve the problem.
@Kumaryoku
@Kumaryoku 9 лет назад
It seems like you are a deontologist, so I'll try to argue from there: Do you want to live in a society, where people in situations like these are saved? You seem to imply yes, then you agree that everyone should do it, what is the same as if you would have said that they have the moral obligation to do so.
@shlockofgod
@shlockofgod 9 лет назад
A Ton No sorry, but me agreeing that everyone should do it does NOT mean they are morally obligated to do it. That is a totally unjustified logical leap. The first is a personal preference and the second is a universal claim. Something does not become a moral obligation because you want it. That's not morality, it's fascism.
@simonmaj
@simonmaj 9 лет назад
shlockofgod Says the guy whose avatar is a communist flag, eg 100 million victims and counting.
@shlockofgod
@shlockofgod 9 лет назад
Simon Majou I'm using the flag as an experiment. Although it's worth mentioning that the kind of moral reasoning used by Matt and Singer that is in this video is much closer to the ethics of the left.
@benhoward5702
@benhoward5702 9 лет назад
(dont mind me, just want to stay up to date on this conversation)
@DaniOK88
@DaniOK88 9 лет назад
Feeling of the "great justice" is also a product. And your will to fullfill this wish depends on marketing. Because total goal of marketing - to make you fill to do something. A drowing child makes great emotional response. But a drowing child in ice-hole surrounded by light ice will also produce strong response of caution and fear. But if this child is yours... Etc, etc. So the experiment is illegal.
@ThePeterDislikeShow
@ThePeterDislikeShow 9 лет назад
Agree we should give more, but government shouldn't force us to.
@DallasGreen123
@DallasGreen123 8 лет назад
If a kid is dying in a foreign country, I don't feel personally responsible for it, because there are so many more instances that should have prevented that to happen, for example the government. If the government fails, then it is the peoples responsibility to remove it, that is also not my decision. Also, I don't give beggars any money, because like that I would only support a system that creates beggars and makes them dependent on welfare. Instead of superficially fighting the symptoms, you should try to improve the system, if you really want to help.
@orcodrilo
@orcodrilo 8 лет назад
In the thought experiment, you get to see child drawing with your own eyes and get to carry her with your own arms, no middle man.
@fistoffries
@fistoffries 9 лет назад
Great video. But would the thought experiment be more accurate if there were several children drowning? Most people would save 1 kid without a thought, but there is a critical mass where people simply feel overwhelmed and helpless. That's what charities seems to do and its both their success and their downfall, they make the problem seem so overwhelming that you can't make a dent in it.
@srenrimbaud6135
@srenrimbaud6135 7 лет назад
Simple: What easily preventable or treatable disease or condition is causing the most suffering and\or deaths? As of April 28th 2017, the answer is still Malaria. While you were reading this comment, someone likely died of it, and someone else and contracted it. Is malaria curable? Yes. Is it Treatable? Yes. Can it be prevented? Yes.
@ManintheArmor
@ManintheArmor 9 лет назад
Easier to save a drowning child, than to teach them to swim.
@kylemedeiros6907
@kylemedeiros6907 9 лет назад
awesome video
@5to22a
@5to22a 9 лет назад
I think forcing people to value the lives of children more than their shoes is more immoral that valuing shoes more than children and far more destructive.
@RetiredWarriorHUAW
@RetiredWarriorHUAW 9 лет назад
A soldier already saved him while you were asking the question if someone would save him....Soldiers sacrifice all the time, i see it because i am one....Charity is nearly extinct.... I feed my wolf charity, Jesus's love and good deeds, i am dying of a Lyme's disease, i want my buckets list to glorify Jesus.
@mattceber
@mattceber 8 лет назад
I really believe that that everyone who can should give to any and all charities who actually help,m but the government is not the answer because they have never been and never will be fiscally responsible.
@Amon161
@Amon161 9 лет назад
In this scenario, the reason I would save a drowning kid but not donate to charities is because I know I'm the only one there, that it's up to me alone to save the kid's life. If I don't take immediate action, he/she would die. Charity donation, however, seems more like a shared responsibility. There's always gonna be excuses like someone else is already donating or, even if I donated it's not gonna make any big difference, and so on.
@sofija642
@sofija642 Год назад
The philosopher talked about that point in his paper. He states that in the drowning child example if there was other person who helped then good, everything's alright! But what if there were other people there who didn't want to help and you knew they won't help? Would you just say "Oh well I let this child drown today, because there were other people there who weren't willing to help"? No! You'd be called a monster. Just because they're acting immoral that doesn't mean that excuses you from your obligation to save the child. Similarly you're aware that if enough people donated, people wouldn't be dying from famines, however they keep on dying. That means not enough people are willing to help so the responsibility falls on you to donate, just like the responsibility falls on you to save the kid if no one else wants to And also it will make a big difference to those few who you save!
@IMissLiberty
@IMissLiberty 9 лет назад
Of course it's moral not to give to unknown children: doing so would be harmful to someone else's children. If that $500 is taken from the shoe budget, it will harm the cobbler's children (or the equivalent factory worker). It's perfectly moral to support there being work for the cobbler. His children are as deserving as any others. Charities have employees, too. And so do government bureaucrats. And they have children. But these may keep some of the money for overhead, which I don't find rewarding. Overhead in a for-profit business is far more likely to be minimal, with more money going to the people who need it, and any they don't need will be spent to employ others. I used to sell VCR's in the 1980's and sometimes people wanted one built in the US (there weren't any). If they didn't buy it, I was the one who earned less pay, and so did my American employers, as well as all those workers who helped make it. The only reason to give to someone you think needs your help instead of someone else, is because you like the way it makes you feel. One's moral duty is to make sure your transactions are win-win. There is nothing moral about robbing someone else to do so. You can only be moral with your own money.
@Sentinalh
@Sentinalh 9 лет назад
If you're a Christian, there is only one answer to the question posed in this video. You have to give to charity, you have to help that child. Otherwise you aren't a good Christian.
@MrMike9267
@MrMike9267 8 лет назад
i prefer the version of this where the baby grows up to be a monster in the future(.i.e hitler stalin etc) would you save the kid? i would it just a kid but thats me
@istaxationtheft7460
@istaxationtheft7460 8 лет назад
I give a third of my income to charity, it's called tax.
@cagsie3958
@cagsie3958 5 лет назад
Sadly, it's not easy to find an uncorrupted charity 😐
@Schrodinger_
@Schrodinger_ 5 лет назад
Yes it is. Use givewell.org. They research charities more thoroughly than any other organization in the world, and give us the actual ratio of money donated to lives saved.
@stevemcgee99
@stevemcgee99 9 лет назад
There is an answer to this question. I forgot who made the video, but they used footage from CK Louis to make the point.
@Schrodinger_
@Schrodinger_ 5 лет назад
Singer's argument is far older than Louie's routine. His textbook, Practical Ethics, originated in the 70s.
@vinceambrogio7555
@vinceambrogio7555 7 лет назад
People would give to charity more if we didn't have to forcefully give to the government
@ChipeloAndCrew
@ChipeloAndCrew 8 лет назад
but imagine you were late to something important, a huge business meeting that, if you are late, will result in you not getting the job and missing out on a HUGE opportunity to help your family, as the job pays very very well. And by saving the child you loose your wallet and your precious wedding ring. If there is so much more at stake, would you still do it?
@janalove4788
@janalove4788 8 лет назад
you say it to them i dont think theyll be mad at you if you dont come to the meeting for a childs life
@PsychedelicDude
@PsychedelicDude 8 лет назад
+MrChipelo Of course! What kind of dipshit wouldn't!?
@RedStreak24
@RedStreak24 8 лет назад
if I knew damn well I wouldn't get the job for being late, I would keep walking. No one would know, stupid kid for getting himself in that situation. Let's say I saved him, now what? I missed a great opportunity and my reputation suffers.
@RedStreak24
@RedStreak24 8 лет назад
+Jesus Christ you know is weird that I say that, because I can imagine scenarios where I would give my life for strangers. How does this whole morality thing work?
@Ryan-nm2br
@Ryan-nm2br 7 лет назад
JanaLove478 They probably won't believe that you saved the kid they might think you're lieing as an excuse for being late.
@josephsousa5552
@josephsousa5552 4 года назад
is this about Phil Collins???
@theredscourge
@theredscourge 9 лет назад
There's plenty of time to take that suit off. It only takes about 15 seconds, and if you know CPR, you can save a drowning person minutes after they've gone unconscious.
@nathanielharms9931
@nathanielharms9931 5 лет назад
A handout feed you for a day or maybe just for a meal, a hand up lasts a lifetime.
@GeoFry3
@GeoFry3 9 лет назад
No. They should not (gov't). You can if you want. The thing is if you add up the amount of time saved vs the amount of time it costs it usually doesn't add up. Sure you save some poor people, but the end result is larger portion of the non-poor people's lives is lost vs those they save. In the end society ends up losing more in the long run. I'm not saying poor people should just be left to die, but let's not lie to each other saying that charity is the best short term solution to a very long term problem. It would be better that people just concentrate on making sure that they and their immediate circle of family and friends are taken care of. In the long run things culturally and economically will improve more quickly if everyone stopped with the handouts for those "in need".
@PoliticalThrowback
@PoliticalThrowback 9 лет назад
holding a gun to someone's head all calling theft taxation is morally wrong. would you per say, break into someone's home and shoot them because they shot at you? Now think of it this way, if would be okay and you'd get away with it because you're a cop
@EWOKakaDOOM
@EWOKakaDOOM 9 лет назад
Join, or Die It is per se. And that is incorrect usage.
@ronpaulrevered
@ronpaulrevered 9 лет назад
Thomas Graham Your comment is mistaken on sooooo many levels. "Without a government, there is anarchy and everyone has the right to do as they please." Anarchy means that there are no rulers, not that there are no rules.I would argue you cannot have justice without property rights. This would mean in a truly free society without rulers that peace could be possible by assembling to pay for insurance to protect yourself and the physical integrity of your property. This means you cannot do whatever you want. You can't harm people or their property. It would be Justice to enforce the Natural Right to Private Property. "When creating the government, the people voluntarily decided that it needed to be paid for and so gave the government the power to lay and collect taxes to pay for needful governmental business" Are you telling me that there were not constitutional challenges to the right to lay and collect taxes? There were! In fact, The Supreme Court declared taxes unconstitutional until the Constitution was amended. I am declaring all taxes as the equivalent to armed robbery. NOBODY should be able to involuntarily take my money PERIOD. "When the people voluntarily agree to something, it is NOT theft." Yeah, SO your are telling me if enough people agree to take something by threat of violence, because the process was democratic, it is not robbery? "By living in the US beyond the age of 18, you are TACITLY agreeing to be bound by the laws of the are in which you live." OK Judge Thomas. I may be tacitly agreeing to pay for my gas at Seven Eleven before I go inside or tacitly agreeing not to steal a candy bar when I'm inside,but I am not tacitly agreeing to public "goods/services"I did not voluntarily pay for or want to engage with. "If you don't like the local ordinances you can work to change them or move. You don't like the State Constitution, you can work to change it or move. You don't like the Federal government, you can work to change it or move. " I have the right to protect my self and my property. As long as you respect me and my property I have no right to you and yours. I don't have to move anywhere. I have the right to where I am. " Either way, you are VOLUNTARILY ELECTING TO BE BOUND BY THE LAW and one of those laws is paying taxes, and that law, agreed to by you, says they can enFORCE the law with physical force. It is not morally wrong." You obviously don't know what VOLUNTARY means. My free will does not succumb to your demands of leave or comply or face the consequences. I did not agree to anything. You are morally confused and are an accessory to crimes against humanity.
@scottnelson6993
@scottnelson6993 9 лет назад
Thomas Graham , who is going to monopolize all property without government? Will our "money" be a commodity with no intrinsic value; such as cloth, plastic, or numbers on a computer? Who will extort the entire population, many times over, without a government? Without government who will build a "justice" system that serves primarily as a revenue generation tool? For that matter, who will cage the rabid marijuana users without government? Without government how would we achieve the same illusion of protection that the police afford us (fbi statistics show that around 95% of police interaction occurs after the crime has been committed)? Without government how would we wage large scale wars (who would fund them voluntarily?)? Without government what institution will defend the monied elite in the never-ending and ongoing class wars?--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Government is THE most destructive concept ever created by man.
@scottnelson6993
@scottnelson6993 9 лет назад
Thomas Graham, relax. I didn't insult you. I simply think we can live without an institution that codifies theft (tax) and murder (war). I would submit that almost all of life is anarchy. The government only legislates (mandates) a very small fraction of human interaction; everything else is anarchy (voluntary co-operation). Is it so hard to think that we couldn't agree to live like the civilized people we're evolving into, specifically when you consider the previously unimaginable tools of the internet and social networking?
@scottnelson6993
@scottnelson6993 9 лет назад
Thomas Graham, can you possibly believe that the will of over 300 million people is somehow represented by around 400 people (all of whom just so happen to also literally represent the monied elite)? If not, then what is taxation without representation? Why limit the representation to such disproportionate numbers? Why can't 400,000 people voluntarily make their voices heard in how national society should be structured? What functions does government perform that couldn't be replicated more efficiently by the private sector?
@ATaylor369
@ATaylor369 9 лет назад
What good does it to gain the whole world and lose your own soul.
@hybridmcgee
@hybridmcgee 9 лет назад
What's the point of some of these questions? I guess I know the answer to that but this just illustrates how desensitized and disconnected people are. Nobody should expect to be protected from anything if they are not willing to do and advocate the same for others. We're not even talking about a question of morals. We're talking about existing in a society with other people and not understanding that even questioning this scenario is the definition of a sociopath, no matter what.
@ShankaDaWanka
@ShankaDaWanka 7 лет назад
Call 911. Problem solved.
@rwalkenhorst
@rwalkenhorst 9 лет назад
The will of the majority is supposed to prevail in the U.S., correct? So if a majority of people want to help the less-fortunate, then government-forced "charity" is not necessary; they will do it on their own through private means. If, on the other hand, a majority do not want to help them, then such action by government is undemocratic. Either way, it shouldn't exist. Can anybody refute this logic?
@Thomasfboyle
@Thomasfboyle 9 лет назад
Also, the government in the US can barely run a postal service and yet we should trust them with the needs of the poor? The idea of taking tax money and giving to the poor is very socialist, and requires that you pay taxes or people with guns come and take you to jail. So if you don't help the poor via taxes, you go to jail. Not helping the poor is certainly a douchey thing, but is it worth going to prison over? Voluntarily giving requires no guns and no prisons. Educating people about the needy and how to help is much more effective and philosophically sound then using the armed power of the state to fund the poor.
@freefallfalcon
@freefallfalcon 9 лет назад
What color is the baby?
@scawarren
@scawarren 9 лет назад
freefallfalcon purple
@gilbet
@gilbet 9 лет назад
If there was a colony of rats starving outside in a sewer, should you give them a portion of your food? What happens when they multiply and double in size? Should you then give them twice as much food? What happens when they double again?
@supersonicdickhead374
@supersonicdickhead374 9 лет назад
gilbet so basically you're saying what if the drowning child was in fact not a child but some other thing which was dangerous when it wasn't drowning.
@cogsworth2634
@cogsworth2634 8 лет назад
+gilbet Richer, more educated countries generally decrease in population.
@gilbet
@gilbet 8 лет назад
Nick McDonald But that's from going against their own nature, and trying to disregard their own gender, not from being rich. The decrease in population is a consequence of Slavery. Slavery created a sense of unfairness, as men were being treated differently because of their racial alignment. They were slightly different, but people decided that it was unfair to treat them as property. Just because they're different doesn't mean you get to own them or control them. Handicapped people are different also, but we don't see anyone trying to enslave them. So it was decided (by Civil War) to change their status to independent, and they were given all the rights of a free men. Then people began to think: Hey, if they get to have the same rights as men, what about women? Shouldn't they get to be treated the same as men also? This created a massive problem because we as a people are a product of men and women, and our very existence requires women to occupy the position of woman and fulfill the roles of a woman. Allowing them to be equal to men has disrupted their position as women, and giving them the power to control men as disrupted the position of men and the ability of men to fulfill the roles of fathers. So now, we have a system that doesn't work at all, and just decreases in population just as any other failed system would. But I don't think it's an inevitable aspect of wealth. This is just a mistaken set of values resulting from another mistaken set of values (Slavery). By realizing we were mistreating Blacks, we decided that we don't trust our ability to treat people fairly and so it made us question how we were treating Women. So the first pattern caused the second one, but neither pattern was caused by wealth. So eventually, the culture of equality will wash itself away, and we'll be left with something that has a little more respect for gender differences and roles. If you're not honoring or respecting a person's alignment by treating them differently, you're not respecting them.
@cogsworth2634
@cogsworth2634 8 лет назад
+gilbet ...This is why I don't comment on RU-vid. Feel free to check out some population stats compared to wealth and some discussion of why this is with Hans Rosling, a professor of International Health here: www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_best_stats_you_ve_ever_seen?language=en
@josuebarboza9809
@josuebarboza9809 8 лет назад
+gilbet holy shit a perfect rebuttal.
@jebremocampo9194
@jebremocampo9194 4 года назад
Private charity is great! Govt programs are not so great
@leftsidenetwork3075
@leftsidenetwork3075 8 лет назад
Bernie 2016!
@sijoule965
@sijoule965 8 лет назад
You'd be staggered by the amount of money I'd give to charity _if_, I had a credit card.
@gary_beniford
@gary_beniford 9 лет назад
the fact is poverty and hungry people will always exists. we can minimize the amount of poverty and hungry people though by giving people the opportunity to advance. it's governments job to ensure a good business. climate a good economy does more for the poor than social program or charity ever could. most people will choose to work hard for rewards but there will always be some who try to get rich quick or who demand to be taken care of no matter how able they are.
@macaronimick
@macaronimick 8 лет назад
The best type of aid is trade.
@ruhanichhabra9276
@ruhanichhabra9276 8 лет назад
wtf idc about my shoes i would save the child
@ThelifeyoucansaveOrg
@ThelifeyoucansaveOrg 7 лет назад
How to take action in the real world? Here are Professor Singer's recommended charities: www.thelifeyoucansave.org/
@spaceygracey9543
@spaceygracey9543 7 лет назад
2:11 no your not as bad as someone who would just walk by.
@elliot7110
@elliot7110 9 лет назад
Take off the suit before you go in?
@evil1143
@evil1143 9 лет назад
Elliot Vickers He doesn't have time you dipshit. Watch the fucking video.
@elliot7110
@elliot7110 9 лет назад
Evil 1 No need to talk to me like that.
@evil1143
@evil1143 9 лет назад
Elliot Vickers YES THERE IS, you're being an absolute idiot. The narrator said that he doesn't have the time to take the suit off otherwise said child would die.
@elliot7110
@elliot7110 9 лет назад
Evil 1 Obviously I didn't hear that bit. Why do you get so hostile just because someone misunderstood something?
@evil1143
@evil1143 9 лет назад
Elliot Vickers Because you had the option to have a valid opinion on this topic but you still chose ignorance!
@bernkbestgirl
@bernkbestgirl 9 лет назад
He just assumes that if someone would save the child due to empathy, they should also donate money to charities. There is a logical leap there. He is assuming that one's sense of morality ought to be consistent across the board. Says who? The magical moral laws of the universe?
@CaptainLazerus
@CaptainLazerus 9 лет назад
He's also assuming that giving money to some third party is the same as taking the responsibility of immediately saving the child. These two actions are only similar in their hoped-for outcomes.
@bernkbestgirl
@bernkbestgirl 9 лет назад
Rick Thom Singer IS correct that everything you do that isn't helping someone is at the expense of someone else. There are many other ways to help people besides donating to charity. So really, the charity part is irrelevant. There are probably far more efficient ways to help people, they just cost you an extraordinary amount of time (e.g. moving to Africa and personally helping starving people). So the observation he made is correct, but his conclusion is wrong. Just because not helping others is at their expense, doesn't mean every person ought to help others. The video tries to appeal to empathy, but there is nothing in the universe that says "thou shalt follow your sense of empathy".
@CaptainLazerus
@CaptainLazerus 9 лет назад
PiggiesGoMoo The very basis of charity is to help the undeserving, so no - helping is not at someone else's expense (unless you're thinking in some super esoteric abstract sense, which is useless for this discussion). To say that not helping others is at their expense is to suggest there's some sort of obligation on the part of the would be helper to help, and this was carefully removed in the setup of the thought experiment. The real comparison the experiment attempts to make is that if you'd spend $500 to save a kid you walked by, then you should be ok with spending $500 on someone you are not walking by - this is a false choice.
@bernkbestgirl
@bernkbestgirl 9 лет назад
Rick Thom No, just because not helping others is at their expense, doesn't mean there's an obligation to help them. It just means not helping others is at their expense! Don't confuse an "is" with an "ought". That's what Singer's mistake is. Btw it's not abstract, it's very simple. If I choose to do anything except help others, those that would have been helped by me aren't being helped. That means at their expense. But it doesn't mean I have an obligation to NOT do things at their expense. That's the important part.
@d4n4nable
@d4n4nable 9 лет назад
PiggiesGoMoo There is no law of the universe that says you ought to do anything ever. Using this logic, ethics and morality are useless concepts, and we should stop talking about it. Self-interest is the only thing that remains. Most people, especially moral philosophers, would disagree with that notion. That doesn't mean it's wrong, of course.
@FrankTurk
@FrankTurk 9 лет назад
You mean this Peter Singer? www.princeton.edu/~psinger/faq.html His idea of a moral dilemma leaves a lot to be desired.
@Camronboycemylove
@Camronboycemylove 8 лет назад
save child
@rangergxi
@rangergxi 9 лет назад
Well some 20 year old in Switzerland burned a Ferarri so that he could collect insurance money to buy a new one. Perhaps we should be stripping some cash from these millionaires and billionaires instead of complaining about minimum wages and government charity.
@jevaughn169
@jevaughn169 9 лет назад
Saves child and takes $500 from parents as a fee.
@jesuschrist6579
@jesuschrist6579 7 лет назад
Im poor so can't relate
@Apocalypz
@Apocalypz 9 лет назад
As poorly tailored as those trousers are, it is best to replace the suit. (Yes, yes, humour in serous video.)
@goldentoiletproducks
@goldentoiletproducks 8 лет назад
umm just let the clothes dry?
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