I see...in the not too distant future, these solar panels will be miniaturized and our world will improve exponentially for ebikes, homes and businesses. Cant wait!!!!
Yup! We already have wearable solar panels on book bags and jackets being used to charge smartphones. And with the jackets, your movements (arms swinging) is converted into usable energy which too charges your devices.
I used the MPPT that Grin recommended to set up a system to charge our new Lectric bikes (52V) or charge my Yuba Munro/Stokemonkey (36V). I really like that I can change the output voltage as needed. Thanks to Grin team for all that you all have done for the fun world of electric assisted people movers!
My brother thank you so much for your very hardwork. But sometimes take a little rest too because it is important too-you deserve it. Grettings from Poland
A great video as always. Thank you very much. I run a simpler system. I run my flexible solar panel on a Trailer cart towed by my E bike. I use a 12v output MPPT Controller connected to an 8ah 12 V lithium ion battery. I connect the 12 V lithium ion battery to a step up Buck converter that gives me 42 volts at 2 amps for recharging my 36 V E bike battery. I just wait until I’m about 90% of battery capacity and then I plug-in the barrel connector from the buck converter Into my 36 volt battery while I continue to ride. I do not use regenerative braking. Thank You
This is bonkers, it really sparks my interest! I'm usually doing adventure motorcyling but this way of travelling might save a good amount of money to be instead invested in good food :)
Wow. I have no use for solar panels atm (mostly urban commuting), but, this is awesome. It opens up so many possibilities. With this and a velomobile, you can build an aptera on the cheap, and be completely autonomous. Great job as always. Keep up the good work.
You should configure your solar panels in series for higher voltage and lower current. Parallel solar cells have worse shade efficiency, and buck converters are more efficient than boost. I am building one right now if you want one.
This looks like an amazing bit of kit. I can't imagine how much time and effort went into developing it. That said I think it would be an absolute game changer if you could feed all of this telemetry into a smartphone app. Most of us already have one mounted to out handlebars. It's definitely on the wish list.
It can be fed in already with a USB-OTG cable and an android phone running a terminal app. Not as convenient as Bluetooth but the hardware is all there.
Somethimes especially when there is 2 ways, I wish that Positive and negative Wh be reversed. i.e. Positive charge the battery, a net positive energy in the system And negative use energy from the battery. You loose energy in the system. But I understand that the convention is kind of reverse. Congrats, always a superbe work at explaining things.
The spare battery, *if you can handle the weight,* is not a bad deal - as in you have a backup source of power. I have thought to do this exact thing, simply because that way the spare is getting charged all the time the solar cells are producing current. Thought was to use the spare to charge up the main battery during rest stops (when electric outlets are not to be had; if I can find one, and can use it, the Satiator will come out) using a current limiting element, I.e. by pulse-width modulation. Both batteries will get their main charges up to 85% in the campground or hotel at the night’s stop.
I think Hobotech (et al) get it right. Instead of a bespoke MPPT controller, get a small lithium ion power station. Much more versatile. Any extra weight is mostly from the extra battery capacity, which is actually a feature rather than a bug. And if worried about weight, get a 45 lbs e-bike rather than a 65+ lbs e-bike.
This goes into a much deeper analysis: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-15HHLY4BfA4.htmlsi=scS_lLeNQy7IbApX Mechanical considerations aside, at least in summer weather a solar panel is both cheaper and lighter than an additional lithium battery of the same daily energy capacity. Ex, a 200 watt solar panel is under 4kg and will generate around 1kwhr /day. While a 1kwr battery costs twice as much and weighs more like 5.5kg
Oh maybe I read you wrong, are you saying just use the panels to go into a lower voltage lithium pack directly (no mppt) and the have a separate DC-DC to boost this back to pack voltage?
Indeed, the next follow-up video on this will cover that exact topic. But two 50 W panels in parallel with one of them partially shaded is still not as good as each 50W panel with it's own MPPT, since the max power voltage for a shaded panel is different than one in full sun.
@@GrinTechnologies looking forward to that video.. But the smaller the panels, the more diminishing return on investment (for two controllers in sted of one) Not only the price of the two MPPT, but increased power consumption of one extra MPPT controller. The last bit is probably low, as efficiency has improved over the years. An other option for use of two solar panels is having them as a V shape behind the seat. One panel to each side. This is to increase the size of the panel on a regular sized bike.
@@GrinTechnologies and also, they are now selling pre-split solar panels. It's two panels in parallel mounted on one frame. They advertise with better shading properly. Since it is one panel, it's has to be used on one controller/micro-inverter. The panels are called half cut.
I am hoping to fit 300w of solar of my nearly completed bicycle camper, and then another 2 x 25w panels on my daily bike. The 2 x 25W is just to give my bike a charge when I am not using it, and the camper combined with the 2x25w will be used when pulling the trailer. I have a motor for the trailer as well, but I am unsure yet if I am going to use it. I might buy another two hub motors for the camper. It has sealed bearing wheels though with a "pin" style axle, so no dropouts. I would have to build an axle, or run one wheel drive. Are the axles of hub motors easy to swap like a normal hub? I guess I could just leave the camper unpowered and put all the power to my bike. I am using 48V on my ebike, but my camper has a 24V battery and 12v/24V MPPT. Sounds like I should just convert it those cells into a 48V battery and get a new MPPT?
Very cool. im designing a cargo tricycle im thinking this has a lot of potential for providing my tricycle music and sat nav etc need to add up the numbers though
If it's an electric assist trike then what we describe here will totally work. But if it's a pedal-only trike and you want solar to run auxiliary stuff like music, lights, gps etc., then it makes sense to get a conventional buck converter to 12V with a 12V battery, rather than a boost converter to higher ebike battery voltages.
There are people who make j1772 adapters to regular receptacles if you want to do that, but it's honestly a bit wasteful to tie up a 6kw charging port for just a few hundred watts of power, unless you are traveling with a whole fleet of ebikes and bring a power bar!
That is a custom made wire with the ST3 charging plug on one end and anderson powepoles on the other. In a pinch you can make this by snipping off the wire of your battery charger and terminating the joint with andersons.
Congratulations! Would you know... Do "The Sun Trip" cyclists alternate batteries or do the solar panels stay connected to the batteries/motor all the time? I think other people also have doubts about direct connection panel/battery/motor running. Thank you, success! Nélio - Brazil, MG.
On the suntrip race everyone has their batteries hooked up the whole time both to the panels and the controller. There is no issue about having charging take place while the motor is running, I'm not sure why people would have doubts about this. The only exception we're aware of is Bosch ebikes which have an overly protective battery system. They don't like to be charged through the discharge port and they don't like to allow the bike to run if the battery thinks it is in a charging state.
@@nigelnightmare4160 I use a 3/8" wrench on both sides of my rear hub motor. I bolted the closed end to a hose clamp, and wrapped brake line around them lengthwise to hold the axle into the crescent. Now it's just really hard to change a pinch flat
I am not sure of everything being mentioned. I have my ebike, but not yet am I sure to use a solar panel or panels. I bought a new 300 watt solar system, but did not work on a standard battery, I feel the MPPT was not working, so I bought another one, just waiting. I hope I will be able to make one work.
I bought a Belize fat tire 20 inch trike from Canada and modified the upper rear bike part of the frame to accommodate a rickshaw 48 volt 750 watt bolt on motor that does 30 mph now working to be semi recumbent for better and easier speeds thinking about a solar panel trike is much better long as you are sitting low for stability
For sure, they're are thousands and thousands of examples of this. Just look at the solar category in our project gallery: ebikes.ca/project-gallery.html?other-features=25
People just don't understand the technology! Thank god that's what makes that affordable! And even then, thiers low cost to make them! Awesome fun!!!! The affordable price gets people to create more awesome projects
Some BMS use same wiring cables for charging/discharging. Not sure if powering the bike while charging is the best course of action. Why not use a secondary battery?!
Thanks for the Link ❤️👍 or written via emeil to Grin technologies asking for the complete kit plus panels the best. since o dog trailer from 100 × 70 amortized 😁🐕 ,, trailer in ergal designed and built by me. 10klg only. it can carry over 50klg of weight. the site has not yet answered me .... I wanted to buy but not seeing Catello found objects and more .... I hope they will reply 🙏🙏
If you're charging while riding, you should use angled plugs so they don't stick out. Charging while using is said to be bad for the battery, although I'm guilty of that, years ago, myself. Charging a 2nd battery is better. As far as solar, I'll stick with my gas generator trailer, thank you very much.
This is not true at all. The battery has no idea if it is charging while moving or not and there isn't any evidence that have it alternate between net charging and discharging (as occurs here when your load shifts above and below the charging wattage) has any effect. This is no different in some sense than regenerative braking which is used to great effect in ever single electric car on the market.
Impractical but allows you to ride without needing an external source of power, even if you have to wait a few hours for it to charge. Can't get stranded and can travel cross country.
Great video love the idea. I confess my ignorance. I really don't know what is being talked about when you're talking about amp hours voltage and wattage.What are some good resources for learning more about what all that really means.
It's basically the first topic for any introductory lesson in electronics, of which there are too many options to list. As a kid browsing the library I found the manuals published for the US navy / army had the best plain language and diagrams for producing 'aha' moments to make sense of it all.
In some other videos it was said that you should not charge the battery that powers the bike, explicitly the motor, at the same time while riding. What is truth to this statement? Obviously this would be too dangerous. By the way, a great video with factually explained content. Thank you for ist.
There is no truth whatsoever to that statement. The only exception would be with pointlessly locked battery systems like Bosch which have a bms circuit that prevents use of the bike if charge current is detected. If you are building a solar ebike, you'd generally know better than to build it off a proprietary platform like that.
This video is super awesome. I know this is a bit of a strange question but can you use one of these on a mid drive or bbshd unit? I love the solar input feature but have never seen a cycle analyst used on a bafang system. Thank you for your hard work making this content and product.
Check out this guy on RU-vid. He has a recumbent trike with a solar system. He recently went to a mid drive and has it running through his CA. That Solar Bike Guy ru-vid.com/show-UCA16jq6U98VSKFrW51Yqzxg
Hi Matt, for sure it's zero problem at all to use it on a BBSHD setup. You can wire up the stand alone CA3-DPS device to any ebike at all as a monitoring unit, just hook up the shunt inline with the battery leads. You won't have any of the control features (like current / speed limiting, throttle ramping etc) since the throttle isn't wired into your system, but you'll be able to see your speed, energy consumption, and all of that stuff along with the solar details.
Great video! Looking at the Genasun product page got me thinking. It says it can accept input voltage as low as 5V, which makes me think you could plug it into a USB wall wart and charge. Is that right, or am I missing something? I see that it also notes a 8A limit, so the most you could get is 40W, but if you leave that plugged in overnight it'd give around 500 Wh, and then when you're on the road you could switch it to solar. It seems like the most optimal setup would be to to incorporate this right into the battery housing itself. There are probably better/cheaper ways to charge an eBike battery via USB, but enabling solar input at the same time is nice. Maybe the light weight and ubiquity of USB chargers would be enough to tempt more people into buying a Genasun? Or maybe Grin will develop and sell eBike batteries with USB charge ports in the future? USB C claims it can output 100W, which seems more than enough for normal eBike charging uses, but I still don't see USB C chargeable eBike batteries. Hoping an innovator like Grin will make this happen someday, maybe USB charge ports could be added to your next version of LiGo?
MPPT's work by scanning the power draw up and down until finding the point of maximum power draw, and that does not play nice with most CV power supplies where the power keeps increasing as you draw more current until it they abruptly shut off. A much less expensive fixed wattage dc-dc boost converter is more appropriate a device. Plus the most power you can get from a USB wallwart it typically about 10 watts (5V @ 2A). Even if the genasun worked at 5V it would be an pretty slow charge process (like many many days to charge an ebike battery). USB-C PD is a very interesting power protocol that allows stepping the USB voltage up to even 48V DC and 90 watts of power, so that is the only area where I'd see USB and ebike battery charging overlap.
@@GrinTechnologies Thanks for the info. USB-C does seem like the right solution. I'd prefer an eBike battery that charged more slowly from USB-C than one that I had to carry big chonky special charger around for.
Hey Mary, most of the challenge is on the mechanical side, ie actually designing a frame structure and mount for the solar panels that fits well with your particular bike setup. We do have a "kit" of sorts for the electrical gear where you can get the MPPT charge controller, solar panel(s), and optional Cycle Analyst for monitoring here: ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/solar/solar-bike-package.html But if that's all greek we'd certainly suggest emailing for consultation, including knowledge of the existing ebike on which you plan to install it with info/photos of the particular connectors and charting port details on your battery pack.
insulation foam sheets are a good way of mounting a flexible panel with very little weight. Does the same principle of charging the battery apply to a small wind turbine, as this would be useful charging at night after a days riding while on a camping tour?
Yeah foam can have a lot of stiffness and is what we used as a backing on the suntrip panels, although that does eliminate any cooling from the underside so the panels will get hotter and less efficient than if the bottom is exposed. You could certainly charge with a portable wind turbine too, they're popular with boaters and any unit that can do at least ~100 watts would provide a healthy amount of charge over the course of a night
You don't, but usually you'd set your solar charger MPPT output to not be a 100% charge anyways and you would rely on having a broadly balanced pack in the first place which is the case almost all ebike setups using quality battery packs and cells. If this is a concern for your situation, then either use a battery that has a common port BMS, or hook it up through the charging port if you only have access to batteries with dual port BMS's.
If you use the Stand Alone Cycle Analyst shunt you can use the CA3 with virtually any controller. You just need to change your wiring a bit so that the throttle plugs into the CA3, and then the CA3's throttle output (green pigtail wire on the shunt) hooks up to your motor controller's throttle input.
This is too far beyond me but I’m wondering if I can charge using my Jackery solar panels and the connectors, etc. that it came with. That way I wouldn’t have to buy anything. This would be a stationary application so panels wouldn’t be attached to the bike. I have two 100 w. panels. They charge my J. 1000. Of course I could just plug the bike into the charged J. but maybe would like to save the full charge in the J. for other uses.
You will need to buy the MPPT boost converter discussed in this video and terminate it in the matching connectors that are on your panels if you want to directly charge your ebike battery with your 100w panels. If you don't want to buy anything then your only ooption is using the built-in inverter/battery system and an AC charger for the bike, which works, but is a lot less efficient.
Great video, thanks! Is it Ok to connect the solar charger AND the motor controller to the battery simultaneously ? Aren't we supposed to connect the motor controller to the LOAD output of the solar charger ? (if it has one) ?
There is zero problem having both charging and discharging currents on the pack at the same time, unless you have a bosch ebike. Those are notoriously locked and overconstrained in this regard.
The controller is connected to the batteries discharge port. That may happen to also be the mppts output port if you are wiring them all on a common bus, but not necessarily. You would never run an mppt into a motor controller directly without a battery in the mix.
What happens if the battery reaches maximum capacity if left parked in the sun for a long time? In this setup are you just depending on the built-in BMS in the battery to stop accepting power when full? As a side question, how does my basic AC ebike battery charger detect when to shutoff and switch the LED on the charger to the battery full indicator?
The mppt will stop charging over the battery is full ( or at the mppts max output voltage if you don't want solar to fully charge the battery to leave headroom for regen and better cycle life). It's no different at all from a regular charger on that regards. The bms cutoff is a backup, not a primary means of charge termination. Depending on model, led will change either on reaching CV stage of charging, or when charge current falls below a threshold. In the satiator, you can even program that threshold.
I have a question. Would it not be easier to have this device on a trailer....charging a separate spare battery.? I have a Bosch mid drive e-bike and do not want to mess with the current motor / wiring.
I have a Rad Power Bike. Can I charge the battery at the same time I am riding it, or does my battery have to be turned off in order to charge it? I would really like to charge and ride at the same one.
Use an MPPT set to the correct full charge voltage and charge through the batteries charging port (if it has one) and you should be fine with minimal risk.
Hello I was looking for a long time for my trip. maybe you can help me. I have to charge 52v 28ah 1456wh battery with solar panel above my trailer with my dog. can you tell me if feasible? what do I have to buy,!?
To charge this amount of batteries up in a day of full sunlight you would need about a 250-300 watt solar panel, while in more typical conditions you would probably want more like 400-500 watts. See ebikes.ca/learn/solar.html for more info
@@GrinTechnologies thanks Even less because of the bulkiness. The important thing is you had a minimum of support to travel. I understand the quantities and sun that would be needed. Here with me he does not use Germany, Holland, Denmark. Here Italy is road rules country constrictor in bike and especially in trailer 😭😭 but something deo genre I can create. If I send you my project trailer to emails. I am Marco pleasure to meet you 💪👍😉🙏❤️
Congratulations! Thanks for sharing knowledge. One question please. Just a lithium battery taking charge and releasing charge, at the same instant, is that no problem for the battery? Can the lithium battery be wired like this? Thank you, success! Nélio - Brazil, MG.
It is no problem, in the end if it is taking a charge and releasing a charge at the same time, it is doing nothing, the charge is just flowing through the wires and no chemistry is taking place. What comes in or out of the lithium battery itself is just the difference between the charging and discharging currents.
@@GrinTechnologies Thanks! I was thinking about the functioning of the BMS board (input/output) while charging the lithium battery. You explained great! Hope you participate again in 2022 The Sun Trip! Congratulations! Success! Nélio - Brazil, MG.
Laptops actually do this all the time - the external power supply on many laptops can’t handle the laptop at 100% full CPU peak. The battery will be charging normally but then a small burst need comes from the CPU going to max speed, and you get the battery discharging a bit for a second or a fraction of a second. Lots of laptops will ramp their CPU speed down if the battery is missing because they count on the battery to provide short bursts of high power.
You can do that too! Just be mindful that cheeseburgers have a larger carbon footprint and cost than solar panels per unit of energy supplied to the bike. A 100W solar panel like this produces the equivalent energy to the wheels of about 1.5 cheeseburgers / day, so it doesn't take more than a couple months in the sun for a panel to pay for itself in cheesburger savings ;-)
Good question, a 100W panel in full sun might capture 90wh per hour. You didn't specify your voltage or how long it took you to travel 30km but lets assume 1 hour and 36v so: 36v X 13ah= 468wh. You're using roughly 15.6wh/km so you'll get an approximate 5-6km extra range with that 1 hour of solar charging during your 30km ride.
Bosch doesn't sell to the DIY community, so it is best to work for or make friends with a bike sales/repair shop & get them to order what you want from Bosch
There is no need to wonder, you just need to look at how many watt-hours are in your battery, and the realistic watts output of the panel. For this 100W nominal panel, we get about 70-80 watts in good sunlight at our latitude. If you have say a 48V 12Ah battery, it is approximately 48*12 = 576 Watt-hours, and an estimate on the charge time would be: 576 Wh / 75 watts = 7.7 hours. So no problem having it charge up over a single day if it's in the sun the entire time.
@@GrinTechnologies Thank you for the answer. Do you know if it is damaging for the battery to be charged while driving at the same time, or is it bad for the overall lifespan? Also when charging is it bad to stop charging if the battery is not completely full?
Super caps have about 50x worse energy density than lithium, and modern lithium batteries have zero problems with the 'C' rate charging and discharging required by ebike systems. So at present there is no 'battery stress' problem that they solve. All they would do is add weight to a setup. There was a time in in the early days of lithium battery tech when there was a small case to make for supercaps to buffer the power demand when the cells had high impedance and weren't really good at more than 0.5C discharge rates, but advances in lithium tech have made that pretty moot.
Generally speaking yes, as long as you set the MPPT's output voltage to match the charge voltage of your battery pack and you have suitable connectors to mate with your charging port.
