Just got a pair last week, I also find the Archon's sound the most pleasing and close to my Focal monitors. Haven't finalised my workflow for obvious reasons, but I enjoy the idea of testing my mix in uncompromising environments like the Howie mastering room (universally considered to be brutal to test mixes on), the boom box as well as the Mike Dean bass-boosted mids and his NS-10s. Always return to my actual monitors though as I know what 'normal' sounds like on them.
I've using VSX for about 8 months and it's amazing! Love how Archon's farfields and midfileds sound, they are my main reference (ps. The new Mike Dean's Room farfields are amazing for checking out the bass range). Also, love the boombox for checking the vocal level. Great review James!
Very well done video. Bought mine today and wanted a second opinion, because I am very positively suprised and thought maybe im just overhyping them or too euphoric about how good(flat) they sound. The Archon room is my favourite too. Imho it is the most transparent, natural sounding studio and it really does feel like an actual room. I'm glad a professional gives them a pass too. Thank you!
@@gravity00x that’s how I feel. I believe flat well know headphones are all you need. These rooms I don’t know. Zero knowledge. Only way to know them is play bands you enjoy in the room to understand them. Will this be faster or would hd600 and sonarworks with can opener be safe and simple bet?
Best review I’ve seen on these. I also have them and honestly believe they changed the way I produce and mix, also I have learned to appreciate different rooms and truly understand the pros and cons to normal stereo headphones. These are amazing, I don’t care if the emulations are accurate. I care if it helps my mixes.
Glad you liked the video and well said! The emulation accuracy is really irrelevant when no one can realistically verify it. I don't care how much Slate claims it's accurate. But the only thing that matters is if the headphone system helps people get better and more translatable mixes
@@Cfeldersproduction007 he stated that he already has a studio that sounds identical the best room in VSX. so... yesnt?. At least now he can get somewhat of the same mixes even when he's using headphones, like when he's on the go for example. Other than that, I think James probably didn't really need the VSX since he's a professional, who makes good sounding mixes by default. In the end there is only so much "good" a mix can sound, before it becomes subjective and "taste".
@@Cfeldersproduction007 Not really because my studio is already well-treated so I was able to monitor properly. But mixing on the VSX system didn't give me inferior results, which means it could technically replace my monitors and room.
@@gravity00x You are correct :) I don't "need" VSX simply because I already have a well-treated room, but I now would be able to get the same results with just a pair of headphones when I'm on the go! It's certainly an asset to those who already have a treated space.
for my head very comfy and without them I'd be even worse as my room is not treated at all. So glad for VSX and Steven going for it. It is in my opinion a very futuristic approach and I love it. helps me hear more details. also paired it with apogee groove.
I just bought it a week ago and these headphones are amazing! The first mix changed everything for me and for the track. (I made the remix after listening to the reference tracks for 1 hour) Believe me, I used M50x- AkgK371- 770. They are not bad as headphones (too much high-end, by the way, it doesn't sound good hahaha xd) but this is the secret of the mix since I don't have enough money for ns10's...etc and room acoustics. . If you can afford to buy it, Just do it!!!
Great video! I think a lot of youtubers don’t ask a question “why” someone would want to watch the video. When it comes to audio equipment, it’s all about sharing subjective experience. Then, people watch a few of those, and it becomes more objective. Almost all the other videos on these headphones are pretty much advertisements. And while the idea behind the technology can be sound, it can be frustrating to watch one video after another where they just paraphrase manufacturer’s website specs and claims. So yeah, great job for giving us an honest overview 👍
You nail it on the head on the advertisement part. That's actually exactly why I created this channel. There are just too many "review" videos that are really just advertisement for the product. I don't blame them. When you are given a product for free, you feel compelled to make a good video for it, so you can get more free goodies in the future, or get more companies interested in sending you free stuff. I strive to always discuss the pros and cons of a product even if I received it for free. So far, a couple of companies stopped sending me their stuff for review, but a couple others actually continues to do so and they don't mind my approach. I have much renewed respect for those companies now, one of them being Soundiron (go check them out!). But you can see why most reviewers are just making videos to advertise products.
@@JamesZhan The thing is, there are very few products out there that are flawless. And with competition, we narrow it down to a few that meet our subjective criteria. Depending on the person, something could be either a deal-breaker, or a non-issue. Amazon used to have a way for people to comment on reviews, but they disabled it. Obviously it’s more important for them to sell products than to have a discussion board, I mean, they know that a lot of the stuff they sell is trash ;) A pity, some really great comments I’ve read there, including performance/troubleshooting tips, and ways to get the most out of certain gear. Also, RU-vid disabled down-vote count… sure when I see the review with the stock videos and googled images of products I can tell they’re fakes, still was nice to have an extra indicator for less obvious ones ;) But after a while people still catch on though. Especially in the higher tech arena, where viewers are somewhat knowledgeable. Saw a few more videos from you, quality content 👍 I’m sure your channel is just gonna keep on growing!
Great review. Very interesting regarding the room reverb issue. Wonder if Slate has improved that since then. Question: You compared them with Goodhertz, but only gave a feature comparison. How about your opinion between the two? Do you think using Canopener gives you better results? Makes it easier to dial in reverb? Or was VSX a better overall experience? Thanks!
@@Barncore Yep, fully aware. He just mentioned that the room emulation actually made reverbs a bit challenging, so wondering if he found it easier to mix reverbs using Canopener.
VSX changed my life. Best studio purchase I've ever made. I disagree very strongly that the Profile slider doesn't make much difference. You're probably only saying that because you have ears close to average size. For me, the room illusion didn't work at all until I was able to dial it and the LH EQ in for my ear canal diameter. Once it was set right for my ears it has worked incredibly for me. Not to mention the best listening experience for pleasure ever
Thanks for your input and I'm happy the system works so well for you! Really interesting to read that the ear profile made a big difference for you. I guess it's better that it's available than not!
The initial version didn’t have it. They added it after they realized none of their testers had small or very large ears and every customer with small or large ears complained the room illusion didn’t work for them.
If you're mixing professionally, VSX is simply the best equipment investment you can possibly make. The new version about to drop kicks up the quality another couple notches. SSA customer service is also top notch
Jamez muchas gracias por este gran aporte..no tengo tratamiento acustico en mi habitacion tengo los monitores hs 8 yamaha.... Yo quiero comprar audifonos no se si los vsx o los senheizer 650.. Espero su respuesta mil gracias
I've been using the VSX intensively for a week now...not impressed but i'll keep them. Since some may misconceive the most important part: the VSX is *not* modelling any of these speakers (of course not, this is marketing only), they are modeling a room response from these speakers. And just like you said, in most of the emulations there is massive comb filtering and phasing going on, a blurry undetailed image, rendering it impossible to make any serious mix decision, as well as the room itsself is in the way to judge reverb etc. The boom box, car stereo and club are somewhat useful, and the Archon midfield too (manys favourite, probably has the least phasing issues). I can't understand the mass euphoria on the VSX at all, i think it's nice to check with some of the emulations for overall balance, but thats it..basically an expensive gimmick to me. Another plus is that the phones themselves are pretty neutral and unhyped, i can imagine to rely on just them for mixing.
@@keyscook You're welcome Keyscook ! But, to be fair: the recent software update to V3.0 is really good, the phasing/comb filtering seems to be gone. Still it's a room model, but now you can work with it...maybe give it a try. Cheers from Berlin :)
@@thesaint7380 i have a pair of neumann ndh30 cans do you think if i would add the vsx it would be overkill or the neumanns are enough ? (have also kh120 neumanns in a not so well treated room)
@@LaidbackSounds i'm not sure if you can run/get the VSX plugin without the phones, since their room models are specifically made for their phones. I had to enter the serial printed on the box, too. There are alternatives you could try for mixing with your Neumanns: SKnote MixingRoom (have a profile for the NDH20), Acustica Audio Sienna, Dear Reality dearVR MONITOR, Sound Magic Headphone Mix 4, Waves Nx.
I bought these headphones thinking they were going to be the bees knees and have came to the same conclusions as you. I’ve been using them for a week and don’t know how anyone can do any serious mixing and mastering on them. The phasing/comb filtering smears the image so much that it’s impossible to gauge what’s going on as it destroys the detail. I can’t imagine doing sound design on these. I’m wondering if the “mass hysteria” is due to home studios being untreated, so a marginal improvement translates to a huge step-up in quality for the untrained ear. My studio has bass traps, sound treatment, and I’m running SonarID. I loose a ton of detail when switching to these headphones. Another annoyance with these is that I can’t reliably clip my mix bus since the plugin requires a lot of headroom.
As somebody who bought and subsequently sold VSX I agree completely. I don’t think they’re nearly as detailed as something like my DT990’s and were largely only effective for mixing bass for me personally.
Hi great review! For these VSX headphones, can I listen to them just regular RU-vid videos and such or are they only through a plugin or 3rd party program via Slate VSX? I wanted something for mixing and mastering but also for just casually listening through my audio interface (RME babyface pro fs) on RU-vid without any programs, similar to just plugging in your Beyerdynmic headphones into the RME and go.
You can. Just need to install a program on your computer and keep the VSX plugin running in the background. If you are on Mac, Sound Source is what I use for this exact purpose!
Very well presented! This has been a perfect solution for me. I don't have the correct space or $ for expensive gear. In fact I had to move last year and can hardly find a chance to use my equator monitors. Therefor, I must use mostly headphones. I find the flat version of the headphones are great in itself, and mostly use that to mix. But having reference checks like boombox, car, club, etc is very helpful after the mix is nearly done. Worth the money.
How would you say they sound without ANY of the emulations? The point you made about the verb room is really serious to me, so maybe using without emulations when dialing short verbs could be a solution… Thanks for the video
I don't think they are meant to be used without any emulations. They sound "terrible" without any emulations imo, but that could just be because they are so flat that they are not "musical."
Great review. I definitely noticed the issue with dialing reverbs as well. And great point about focusing on 1-3 emulations and learning to mix/master well in those, instead of getting too many 'opinions' from using too many emulations.
Using the VSX since like a week. It’s simply amazing. Like the midfield at the archon the most as well. Also like to check the subs at the club setting, even I mix rock and metal, the low end sound way better now on my stereo system at home. For a musician who is on the road a lot and also is doing professional misses, this is game changing. Drawbacks: as Bering said, reverb are harder to reference, but it works quiet well. For me, the headphone it self is very comfortable. Light, and fits well. Don’t feel wired at all. Sure, a proper listening space is still recommended, but it’s never be that easy to do a mix on the go, silently. :)
I have mixed feelings about Slate VSX. The bass in the emulations seems to be totally overpowering (in the reference tracks, not mine). It may sounds cool and exciting, but I can't believe that studio monitors have such an overly bassy sound in recording studios. In addition, the speaker balance within a given simulation seems strange, because when switching from small near-field speakers that can sound as if they somehow had sub-bass, we suddenly get even more bass. Totally weird thing. In the meantime, out of curiosity, I checked Realphones 2.0, which I was skeptical about, especially after spending a lot of money on VSX, but I must say that after listening to their emulations, it sounds much more realistic. I recommend checking it out. After a long time of comparing Slate VSX vs Realphones vs my KRK 5, I'm considering returning the VSX.
Thanks for the video. Let me say that some of your CONS are related to risk of mis-use of VSX (e.g. to jump continuously from one room to another during mix) rather than objective limitations, which is applicable to everything. Furthermore following your inistial statement I believe the best PRO of VSX is not to emulate, correctly or not, studios or situations but to allow to be in a proper home studio situation as close as possible to reality and to have easy access to comparisons with other systems, regrdless they are accurate or not.
instead of saying "Un naturally wide" it more accurately is "Un familiarly wide". I've heard great mixes from people monitoring in worst case scenarios. Rely on your ears, not the system.
I'm looking at getting these. I currently use Mackie 624mk2s in an untreated room. I love them but not the space (from an audio point of view). I use my DT150s to reference and have done one mix on them (I've had them for 20+ years and they still sound great!) I'm hoping that getting these will give me a really good neutral option for mixing and mastering my music and films. Do you think I'll find them as beneficial as I'd hope they would be? I'm not fussed about whether the emulations are accurate, just whether they'll help me improve my mixes °¬)
James, appreciate your time & effort. Deciding btw the VSX Essential & the HifiMan Sundara. Both 300$. Have asked VSX about specs, DAW compatibility, sensitivity, etc. The reply came in 24 h but didn't answer my Qs save the main studio models are flat - HUGE red-flag. Such lousy CS turns me off!
As far as reviews go, you agree with the rest of everyone. I do not see anything special apart from the fact that you have room emulations for this headphone. Normal S650 will do the trick. I have also learned many other options can be as good as well just get your ears used to them.
These are way too hyped. Yeah. They're great if you don't have quality monitors and a treated room (or way better headphones and some kind of Crosstalk/etcv solution. These headphones don't have any soundstage and they're slow compared to really good headphones or speakers.... So you're missing important transient detail. They're going to be a really decent cost effective solution but it's not really giving you a high end monitoring solution. It's a valuable package, but it's not at all what I'd consider endgame.
Regarding the AirPods, earbuds' response varies very highly depending on the size of the ear opening and therefore seal of the buds. So SSA chose to emulate the average response of the AirPods.
@@JamesZhan Accuracy is less important than usefulness in this type of product. In fact, an average-response emulation may actually be considerably _more_ useful than exact match to one's ears.
This is more or less my point in the video, the fact that whether or not the emulation is accurate isn’t really the point, nor can it be verified by most people anyways. Usefulness is what matters!
Hey James! For someone who can’t treat their room and is interested in getting a more transparent/uncolored monitoring environment, which would you recommend between the VSX system and the SonarWorks SoundID? Loved the video, subscribed!
Definitely VSX. Sonarworks SoundID is more like an icing on the cake for already treated rooms imo. It can't really fix completely untreated rooms. Glad you liked the video! Appreciate the sub.
Thank you for your thorough review & nice to find your channel. Can you use the software with any brand of headphones, if so, have you tried? Nice to have headphones (that you know) to use briefly... For me, having air getting pushed (sound) through speakers can't be beat. BTW, IMHO, pretty much any room can be "treated" pretty inexpensively, a bit of research and DYI - have fun! Cheers from Seattle!🍻 Alex
The VSX headphone system is definitely to be used with the VSX headphones, so no, you can't use other headphones with it. I personally can't say I understand how speakers pushing air is different than the speakers in a pair of headphones pushing air, but I definitely prefer studio monitors simply because I don't like wearing headphones in general. If you are a handy person, then yes treating a room is relatively inexpensive. However, there are other factors to worry about-if you are in a rental place, you might not be able to drill holes on walls; if you live in an old building, you might not be able to drill holes on the ceiling due to the presence of asbestos ; if you want to do work on-the-go (like a touring musician), it's not even about being able to afford room treatment. All in all, the VSX Headphone system is a damn good product.
Have you used Waves Nx and can you do comparison video? I have both but just got the VSX mostly because they have emus of cars and clubs. But I am still weighing them against the Waves CLA which sound scary realistic to the point where I once thought my speakers were on loud at 3 AM and had been disturbing my neighbors all night, only to realize that my speakers were not on and what I was hearing was in my cans. For the Waves Nx I calibrate my various headphones with Sonarworks Sound ID. Although Sonar works offers calibration for the VSX, Steven Slate Audio advises against using it and I agree.
I have not tried Waves Nx so I can't speak about it. But at the end of the day, it's all about what your goal is with these room simulation tools. I think for most people the goal is probably to circumvent the downsides of mixing with headphones or to create translatable mixes more easily. I would wager that both Waves Nx and VSX can achieve this goal for people so it's just a matter of which one clicks with you.
Hi James, love this review. I would love to know your thoughts on the Sonarworks SoundID (specifically more for the headphones option) and how this software compares to something like the VSX. The Sonarworks SoundID allows you to choose which pair of headphones you're using to give a more accurate speaker or headphone emulation.
I have had both for an extended period of time. Sonarworks + Sennheiser HD800's, and VSX (both out of a prism converter). Sonarworks doesn't get used, I gave it a very long time and didn't like it.. I literally never use it (but I do use my hd800's still ofc). VSX is much better than sonarworks, even compared to sonarworks with such great headphones.
Thanks James, great synopsis of the headphones and a perfect testimony of your experience. I'm waiting for my pair to arrive and will comment here once I've spent some time with them.
Opinion is always an opinion. I will never consider it a fact unless an opinion has been proven to be true via scientific means, but Bob Katz has proven through his work that he knows what he's talking about so his words have more weight than most engineers.
Exactly: It's a solution and a darn good one. I will say that I also thought the center frequency and ear profiles made very little difference *until* I heard them on a higher quality outboard DAC/headphone amp much better than my UAD Arrow.
