When I'm mixing a band that is gonna be louder than people expect in traditionally quieter venues, I slowly raise the house music to a somewhat uncomfortable level to train their ears.
@@soundped I started getting a whole lot less loudness complaints from patrons when I started doing that. Though I'm not sure if it's just because they left before the band started lol
YES. i’ll be the first to admit i mostly did the opposite when i first started out. almost like showing off how proud i am of the PA tuning with the preshow tunes lol. i had one experience where the band sounded far worse than the preshow and it made me realize my error. now i high pass and carefully sculpt that preshow sound to tee up the band perfectly, but the REVERB trick is genius!! everything is contextual. i love it.
Working as a Soundengineer and sometimes Systemtec for the big french "L" Speaker Systems for 10 years now and sharing your Knowledge is really lifesaving for us! Looking foreward for more of these Videos! Cheers from germany 👋
Dude, you are so brilliant. I LOVE all your advice, especially the house music reverb trick! LOL!!! And I can tell there's so much knowledge you've accumulated over the years of doing your thing. Big thanks for taking your time to make these videos.
I often roll off some bass and trebble to the house music to make the live act sound more full when they go on, and now I'm eager to try putting some reverb on it too!! Thanks for this tip! I also like the "imagine there's a camera"-tip.
I’m an old school analog guy. # 4 is pure genius! I wish I knew that back in the day and also wish I had enough channels. Kind of got used to changing my ACP88 up,and down.
Yes, I got frustrated changing the thresholds and bypassing and one day I was like, wait a minute, I can solve this and it worked great until I filled up the console a few tours later and had to stop. With modern digital, it would be very helpful.
Great reference to top fuel engines haha. I have never plugged my ears at a concert. First experience with a top fuel dragster had my hands on my ears while they had foam plugs and cups on lol.
10:55 Dave is spouting truth as pure as gold but when he mentioned the Top Fuel drag race he just went to next level real. You don't hear the cars go by. You feel them punch across your chest. This dude is a pure audiophile who has the power we all wish we had!
Some great observations there Dave. Much respect to you. Drums grouped onto 2 separate VCA's one sound ungated... what a great trick! The "Ego Platform" ...exactly. I guess mainly to keep punters away form the gear, but not so advantageous for sound at the crowd level. I had once gigged with the actual board on the ground (like a picnic) and I just used a low beach chair. The event was in a venue where everyone just had pillows, beanbags, towels, rugs and small foam mattresses. So I just thought, thats where I'll mix from... and it was great! It has always been said that "a great band knows how to connect with the audience" true enough, as it was told to me from way back that the board is just like an "instrument" too. Play it well and the crowd may be clapping and cheering the band, but the band will book YOU again! True! ;)
The reverb on the house music is an interesting idea. I do something similar, especially on smaller rigs with no gas. I roll off the lows and highs, and add a touch of 2khz-4khz in there. This makes the background music sound kind of weak, no punch, etc. It's just there and it sounds 'OK'. It's easy to make that music sound great because of how it's produced. Then when my main act hits the stage, the subs come to life, there's sizzle in the highs and the system sounds more "in your face". And my pre-show music didn't steal the show away inadvertently.
Thank you so much. As a gigging musician and we are often responsible for our own sound, your advice is invaluable. Especially about the high reverb rooms. I play a lot of small venues with really bad acoustics. Your advice will help greatly. Thank you.
#7 (reverb) - big thumbs up. #10 (FOH location) - is it all about the ego? I have always wondered why the guy in the mixing booth needs to be in a "king's throne". I can understand the possible need to be isolated from some of the clowns in the crowd but they are in the optimum listening position and they are blanking out many of the best seats in the house. Thanks for your efforts Dave, I will be saving this episode for sure.
Lovely tip about reverbing the house music....on a similar tip I often pick music that has a reduced bandwidth(often music from the middle of last century actually) or high pass filter it so when your band come on it sounds like they are larger than life in full dynamic and frequency range ..same for outro when people’s ears need to decompress creating a sense of aural relaxation. Great work on the vids fella
Honestly, the best sounding band I've ever heard in a small venue was a country band (I despise country) and the guy who was mixing them was on his phone all the time and barely even paid attention to the band lol. Maybe there's something to that.
Thinking about #6, when I'm in a crappy room the first thing I do is pull down my effects VCA if it cleans up the mix then I leave it down except for the songs where I know I'm going to really need that wet sound, I see no harm leaving the effects reduced when they're not needed, seems like some people add them when they're not needed, kind of like making changes when they're not needed. I only make a change when I hear something that is wrong and needs to be corrected. Love you series Dave... things that make you think.... truly a business where you can never stop learning or exploring...
Dave, I’ve been working professionally in the audio world for almost 10 years now. I started as a studio rat, and lucked my way into live sound for extra money. Your videos have been more informative, and entertaining than all of the Sound on Sound and Tape Ops I’ve read this past decade combined. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, tips, and keeping me sharp and passionate! Much love brotha!
Thanks for these great tips! Regarding tip 1: As most engineers will know, many digital audio networks have the ability to share resources and controls so that both the FOH tech and the monitor tech can have remote access to each other's functions. Even on low-end digital systems, the FOH engineer can have a tablet connected to the monitor board so that he or she can open the talkback mic or whatever. Of course, you have to use this ability prudently so as not to step on the other guy's toes. Tip 3: It's really annoying when the mix position sounds very different from audience level - often because the installed board in a venue is too high/off to one side/in a corner. I often end up tweaking the mix with a tablet at audience level. Tip 4: I'll have to try the gated/non-gated trick, which could be useful for a standard small festival setup with several bands of different genres. Tip 5: Totally! I've seen so many shows where the mix reaches a peak and then starts going downhill again because of too much fiddling (I've also done it myself). Tip 6: I'd never thought of the reverb trick and I often have to work in a club with horrible, boomy accoutics. Tip 8: This is a constant struggle as the temptation is to judge and adjust things like EQ visually using the on-screen curve and the RTA rather than using your ears. It also affects paying attention to signals from musicians and other techs if you have your head constantly buried in a screen.
Tip 1: I've always thought Y-cables on outputs are kosher, but y-cables on inputs are no bueno. That's why they make those little 2-channel to mono summing boxes, because you need to sneak a resistor in there for correct impedance matching. I know it works, but does it narrow the frequency range of your lead vox in the monitors? Also, I know dynamic mics are the norm for this situation, but might splitting the phantom power to multiple condenser mics cause issues? On another topic, thanks for getting me on the "everything" over Cat5e bandwagon. I'm running cable everywhere. You're the man!
Dave Rat Thanks, Dave. I know I over complicated this issue. We are just talking about a switched dynamic mic used on monitors during emergency situations.
Two people dislike this video because they don't even understand a word or whats going on in here. Mr. Rat thanks for the knowledge transmission. We the entertainment audio slaves and aliens appreciate it. I think you need more cowbells.
that reverb on the house music trick is the best thing ive heard in years... i imagine you can study this stuff in your studio as much as you want. that's something that you only learn on the job :D
Just found your channel, Dave. Wow. I'm a 59 year old that "retired" from FOH Pro Sound in the 90s. I absolutely loved the work but at that time the "party" got the best of me and I had to get out. Your philosophy about connecting the artist with the crowd was paramount for me and of course, back then things were mostly analog so there weren't as many rabbit holes of tech to fall into. Watching this video (and a lot of your other ones) really took me back and made me miss it. Favorite moment? When the house lights would go down and that nervous anticipation would really kick in. There was no RU-vid back then and you might get a little mentoring here and there but a large part was just learning, learning and more learning on your own. Thanks for taking me back to what I loved about Sound Reinforcement.
I love your comments about reverb on house music. psychoacoustics are very powerful. Like when someone asks for something and you don’t really want to give it to them and you reach for a knob and pretend to turn it and they thank you. The reverb on House music is brilliant.
Brilliant, simple stuff like the hand signals are perfect if shit goes wrong. The splitter on the main vocal is awesome. and yes get down with the punters, at minimum take a stroll around if you can. You know your stuff man, thanks.
I've been running my own live sound service, 'Avenue 44 Audio' for about 7 years now. I have my dad work for/with me and we've built up quite a good reputation and have some very loyal bands that we work with regularly. A lot of that success in the last couple of years is thanks to your videos Dave! You're a friggin legend, man! Although I could have done to watch this three days ago. We just did a show in a 700 capacity hall where everything was made from good, old fashioned hard wood, with a balcony and seriously high ceiling. Quite an interesting challenge!
On fiddling, he is correct. Always listen. If i'm fiddling, it is switching the PFL to constantly check the quality of individual mics as sometimes something goes south and not easily noticed right away. Had a lower tom stand getting kicked, and managed to mute it before it started buzzing against a mic. Sometimes a rented stage does not provide a drum kit carpet. Be a hero and pack one. By noticing the change in sound as it moved, I could see the reason it was moving. Love the reverb. I'll try that. The reverse of compression in reverberate rooms, do the reverse for open outdoors. Remove most of the compression for a clean dynamic performance. You don't want an outdoor performance to sound like a radio station with compressed sound. Utilize the dynamics especially for acoustic acts. A classic Spanish guitar on a live stage uncompressed is live and dynamic. Use compressor for unintended excessive peaks only.
Every time I watch a Rat video my list of things to try at the first shows after lockdown gets bigger and bigger. Truly awesome! One thing I do with my house music is high and or low pass if its a tough room. But the reverb thing is next level!
Wow. These are ace tips. I do worry about gig volume. Over the last 20 years for all the brilliant advances which aid really good mixes, things have got steadily louder. The last rock gig I went to in Hammersmith Apollo the sound was so loud that I left my seat after 2 songs and listened to the show in the bar. It was frightening! But oh my these tips here are superb. Thanks Dave.
Dave you ROCK! I hit 45 years mixing live soon and I have a similar story for how I got started. Everything you say in this video I agree with and makes total sense to me.
Dave, I have long said...well for the last 20 years or so...get it in the pocket and leave it in the pocket. In regards to rule 5. I want to get the mix sounding the way it should in the venue we are in and then only adjust for song changes and solos. I never did/do understand those who have to be changing something the entire time or as I like to refer to them as fiddlers. They can't keep their hands off the knobs. My first rule of any show is that if the audience has a great time and they don't know that I am there then I have done my job as a FoH engineer. Rule 2 for me is: It's not about the equipment it is about the band and I am here just to amplify and channel what they are doing for the audiences sake. This year I have been traveling with a band that had a few hits in the 70's and 80's and we have been fortunate enough to open several times for REO, STYX, BOC and a few others. At 60 it is a real pleasure to work in-front of bands like those. We generally have between 7,000 - 11,000 per show and it is a blast. Can't imagine how it feels for you and your crowds. Safe Travels and keep you the Yeoman's work!!
Good stuff Dave. I love the "no riser thing" - so true. Also I remember from an earlier video that you will have the Mixer to one side of you so that you have nothing between you and the audience. Genius! On the "don't fiddle with the mix" tip, a hundred years ago, I saw a Sammy Davis Jnr concert in Festival Hall - Melbourne Australia. As luck would have it, I was sitting behind the mix position. Every few songs, the operator would slowly move a finger over to a fader, and make a minute adjustment. Little or no tweaking for the whole show. Yay - as it should be.
Hand signals forever! with my boss in the 90s we had a ton of them because.... no extra channels for talkback! Also the no fidgeting, I get asked why I don't move stuff all the time, if it sounds inteligible (I do mostly AV now), I leave it. The sneaky rev on the music is so good!! \m/
Hi! I have been mixing in churches for 30+ years. Glad to hear from you I’m doing some things right! Eg. Hand signals, let your ears be your guide, fiddling, pre-show audience ear warm up..
Dave hands over so much knowledge from experience, you can immediately apply it without all the theoretical, singled out topics you get from all the "mix schooling how-to video guides" that are all over RU-vid but help you sh*t when you're actually doing live mixing. Thanks a bunch, Dave.
DAVE loving your wisdom. Love the playback adding reverb trick before the live act. Brilliant. One trick i do with reverb is, as the music gets faster (and to a lesser degree louder) i reduce the amount of reverb from the master return so all channels become drier, with more clarity with the busier transient peaks, and if the song returns to being slower and quieter i start nudging the return back up for that spacial sound. Another thing i like doing, is nudging the FOH master up as a song is progressing, then i bring it back at the end of that song and slowly do it again during the next song. I find it not only adds to the dynamics of a live show, it gives the audiences ears a breather. So starting again from a quieter point, the audiences ears are ready for another go. This technique i have noticed encourages the band to "fly" with their music as the song progresses. Being a drummer too, i get a buzz watching the audience go just a little more crazy (or a lot) when a tad more juice is added. I will stop this technique the day a musician on stage tells me not too, but thats never happened so far.
@@DaveRat do you have any interest in doing a lifestyle interview? Think of it as a talk you leave for your family & friends for generations to come. I’m not famous, my channel isn’t famous, but I feel like the episodes let folks know what it was like to know me and share oxygen with me for a few hours. That’s how my few guests have treated it.
Dave, always love your videos. I love tip #4. Digico consoles make this really easy since you can create macros that enable/disable drum gates with a single macro without having to double patch channels.
thank you for sharing dave. we are in an industry where too many engineers, due to their egos or competitiveness, fail to be as generous with sharing knowledge from their experiences. cheers!
Great tips Dave. Very cool to see one of the best in the industry sharing real world practical advice. So many engineers are often very arrogant, but You are so down to earth. Again, thank you for taking the time to create these videos that will hopefully help us all be better at this craft.
Listening where the audience is, is so important. Often the mix engineer is stuck near a wall to be out of the way which unfortunately increases the level of the bass. One time half way through a gig I panicked because I thought the bass was too loud only to run out into the middle of the room to find it was just right - phew!
In this day and age every modern system has the ability to be controlled by an iPad or Windows Surface or something, so just take that and walk around. Or don't even take it, and just walk around and listen so you get a sense of what's going on everywhere in the room and use that to make adjustments. Maybe it sounds great where you're at, but over on the far right side by a pillar or something it sounds kind of boomy and there's a lot of people over there, you're going to want to adjust so it sounds "good" everywhere even if it doesn't really sound "great" anywhere.
Yes, many do and also there are more people out there mixing on smaller older and lower cost simple systems for small audiences than there are mixing on modern systems.
too true,, i spent 8 years mixing deep under a balcony with a high hang, i couldnt hear the hang unless i stepped out. ran sound checks from mid house with an ipad for board and tablet for PA and developed my own listening curves for that theater so come show time , i had reliable curves to balance my mix against thanks to the four reference mics i had installed, out of pocket
Great videos Dave, as band owner, drummer, sound tech. Last part of your video was spot on. As sound tech it's our job to help connect talent to audience. So so important.
Thank you and to you as well. Personally and family is good. Not the best time to own a sound rental company though. But hey, without challenge life would be boring.
Thanks Dave In reverberant rooms a lot of engineers try to get that big sub sound which is not a good idea. Subs can cause havoc and vocals and stuff gets lost
Ain't that the truth! I am always very careful what I do with subs in those kinds of rooms. I am always delighted when I get handed a separate sub line when I walk in to one of the nasty rooms. It gives me the the ability to do so much more.
Its an interesting thought that I would like to dive into. Does a room's reverberation "care" whether the mix or subs are loud or soft? Does turning down a mix result in less less reverberant to direct sound than a louder mix? Or does the reverberation scale up with the volume level such that the reverberation to direct signal remains proportional regardless of volume level? And separately we have things that rattle at higher levels and make no sound at low levels but are limited on how loud they can rattle, so getting even louder could mask the noise they make. Also, I wonder if there are surfaces and objects that at low levels tend to reflect sound but at higher levels with more energy and motion, they absorb some energies and reflections. All of this makes me think that there are volume related non linearities in room reverberance but not necessarily in the "quieter is better" realm
Reverb on house music is genius. I think I might expand on that and adjust the EQ to dirty up the house music a bit in general. I've always hated the transition from great sounding audio to some hack band.
I do that. I have a parametric EQ on my house music input and drop all the low frequencies with a low shelf under 300hz by -12dB, that way it sounds thin and then when that first kick drum hits from the actual band it's like Whoa, and you're off and running with some impact.
