Either way it's your choice so own who and what you are. You might not yet realize it but the real purpose of life is to reveal you to you so that at the judgement (which is really just a reckoning) you wont gripe about which house the hat sorts you into.
I paint houses for a job and get to listen to whole podcasts like this one. Very educational and enlightening. Thankyou John , Nemo and Mike for all your outstanding work.
You are right. Every example of the old testament prophets is that God himself took care of their needs. They were fed bread by ravens, told to go live in a cave, or ask a widow to give them bread. Not once did God say "tell people to give you their women, property, money. Even Jesus refused to use his power to benefit himself, even after being starved for 40 days, refusing to change rocks into bread.
I’m currently in my faith journey with the church and this is deeply concerning. I’m unsure what to believe but I appreciate this video very much. Challenging beliefs is healthy
@onlyyhwh Respectfully, please, please keep researching. It is a painful process to see all there is to understand about the origins and current dealings of the lds church. Peace.
@CHRIST KINGDOM MISSION wow very Christ like. I’m sure he will be proud of all your assumptions you’re without actually know what I’m talking about (typical) and don’t forgot about the hypocrisy you just displayed.
LDS and most high demand religions have shorthand for this. Pay, pray and obey. It didn’t work out for the Roman Catholic Church, the Witnesses, the Puritans, the FLDS, and many modern pseudo religious cults.
@@kimberlyporter9555ummmm exactly!😆Raised Catholic & I agree…control, power, greed, control over the sexes & sex itself with a “do as I say not as I do” attitude is a theme in all these man-made religion/cults
I would love to see an episode devoted to the exploration of the notion that Smith stumbled into the creation of a religion when his primary motive was to simply SELL BOOKS. His entire story seems to be Joe in a constant state of reactionary behavior where he is simultaneously on the ragged edge of control while trying to reap all the benefits of being a prophet (wealth, power, women, political aspirations, militaristic aspirations, etc).
Just like Mormon men are taught that the priesthood is for blessing OTHERS, revelation should not be used to tell others to do something for your benefit - like provide you with other men’s wives or a mansion house.
Nemo nailed it! I am convinced that Joseph was almost always thinking, "How far can I push this? Just how much of this nonsense will these people believe?"
Never Mormon, but seeing all of the cultlike behavior, not just in the US (where I live) but recognizing it all over the world, these videos have been on my recommended list so figured I’d start watching. I’ve read a great deal about most of the larger religions of the world. I was, still am, tired of the evangelicals in my world (friends and family) telling me that all other beliefs are evil and cults, etc. I wanted to figure things out myself. In my early 60s now, I’m finally able to see what the LDS is about, why certain things are not allowed, etc. I live about 25 miles west of Hill Cumorah. My dad took me to the Pageant shortly after my mom passed away (I,was 14-1/2 when she passed, he was 45). He was ‘searching’. Luckily that is all that happened. It was a show we went to see. I was searching in my youth as well…read Dianetics, filled out a questionnaire card, mailed it in. I found out three or so decades later that that ‘church’ did send me a mailer about joining but my dad got the mail that day and tore it up (thank you dad)…he kept me away from Scientology. Anyway, this was my first video and I will definitely check out the others. It’s helpful to me to understand the thought processes not only of Mormons, but any believer who wears blinders to the truth. Thank you.
Watch Leah Remini’s Scientology and the Aftermath…it helped me a lot to see this exact thing…I could so clearly see the comparison, the coercive control & the absolute dysfunction in the religion I was born/raised into. In my journey I’ve decided the only thing I know for sure and can build a foundation on is simply Love itself. I do not need to go to a church/guru/priest when Love resides in my heart and the kingdom of Heaven is within (& all around us, inside our brothers & sisters & in nature itself). Blessings on your deconstructing journey ❤
My father used the LDS God as his role model and guide in parenting. He said things like, “It’ll hurt me more than it hurts you.” Before administering physical punishment and that he only did it because he loved me. He told pregnant youth that it was better they died than become pregnant out of the covenant and he threatened me that if I moved out of the family home to further my education that I was not welcome home again. He was sustained as a bishop in the church. It probably goes without saying that my relationship with him is severely damaged and the entire family is dysfunctional. It was reading an essay by polygamy survivor Doris Hansen ‘what love is this?’ (after I had been pressed by members of the church to secretly join them, living the everlasting covenant as intended and practised by JS) helped me to recognise the manipulative, controlling, abusing ‘love’ that I had grown up with in the LDS organization.
It is unsettling the way JS used revelation and fear to control people. God, has nothing to do with his actions. If God would have decided to implement polygamy, He would have send his angels to speak to women to prepare them to become a guy’s second or third wife, because it is an extremely sensitive decision. Just like when an angel visited Mary, (Jesus’ mother and Joseph) to prepare them for the coming of Jesus through them. I hope my narrative is clear enough to see my point of view.
At 35:27 my first thought was "Didn't God go to Mary directly via an angel"? So,why wouldn't he go directly to the woman or, more correctly, GIRL and give them the "revelation"?
I thought the same thing. An angel visited both Mary and Joseph- both that were involved. It only makes sense it would work the same way if it was coming from God.
If you learned that an angel did in fact go directly to one or more of the women who agreed to become plural wives, as reportedly happened in the Bible with Joseph and/or Mary, would that make a difference to you? Keep in mind that an angel appearing directly with Mary was pertaining to her becoming the mother of the Son of God. So, I think you would put that in a category of events which you might expect an actual angel to announce in person. Even today, we understand that there are some things to be communicated from one person to another that are too important to be handled in a more informal way such as, for instance, via a text message rather rather than in person. As to Joseph, though, "the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream." When you ask about why didn't God go directly to the women to give them " 'the revelation'?," what makes you think He didn't? If you actually did any kind of research on the issue without relying on anti-Mormon highly-biased spin, you would find that there are all kinds of accounts of the revelations to women who became plural wives and that these women would never have agreed to become plural wives without the personal revelations to them (separate and apart from anything Joseph Smith may have communicated to them as being revelation to him) that convinced them it was of God. I'm not saying there is extant evidence in all cases, but there is ample evidence in many cases. For instance, there is evidence that Mary Elizabeth Rollins, who was one of the four "polyandry" wives, certainly had revelation in advance of her agreement to become a plural wife, and that she would not have agreed without her own witness from God. For a summary description of events pertaining to Mary Rollins, check out Answering the "CES Letter": Polygamy & the Book of Mormon Translation (Hannah Stoddard, Radio) on RU-vid beginning at, say, the 14:18 marker of the video. Of course, Stoddard's description is not the evidence and I do not vouch for Stoddard. For years Mary Rollins experienced dreams while sleeping, which could be characterized as unwanted dreams, in which she was married to Joseph Smith. But, she did not rely on the dreams she had experienced. The evidence is that she wouldn't even consider plural marriage to Smith without first receiving a witness from God. However, it is her account that she received revelation that convinced her. It should be noted regarding a different one of the plural wives that DNA evidence showed relatively recently that the daughter of Sylvia Sessions Lyon was not the biological child of Joseph Smith. Following the DNA results, there really is insufficient evidence now to show, even by the low standard of preponderance of the evidence, that the plural marriages of any of the "polyandry" wives involved sexual relations between any of these particular wives and Smith (not that it truly makes the difference for purposes of determining what you choose to believe pertaining to the "polyandry" wives). To be clear, there is reliable evidence showing many of the plural marriages of Smith involved sexual relations between him and the other plural wives, which is not something the vast majority of TBMs dispute given that Smith and these particular plural wives were married in every sense. However, the evidence is that there was never any any courtship, romantic relationship, or sexual relationship involved pertaining to the plural marriage of Smith and Helen Mar Kimball, which was a marriage that the evidence indicates was nothing more than a formality expressly pertaining to eternity only and never intended to apply during her mortal life.
Well the algorithm is pushing Mormon stories channel into my playlist after pretty much any video i watch on youtube no matter what the subject was. I have autoplay set up and you guys will play without me ever choosing you actively. I do sometimes watch you and im subscribed. But spooky that you arrive so often. I really hope you are arriving to people who you really can help. Im "Never Mormon" I just found you one day along with a heap of "exmo" presenters and channels.
In the Bible, angels went to Mary and others to tell them what God wanted. Like you stated, why didnt angels go to these women and tell them to marry Joseph? As a former Mormon and son of a polygamist I still have many questions about the mormon religion, which is why i watch your podcasts.
With revelation about polygamy, there's already a model in the bible for God to work through. An angel appeared to Mary to tell her she'll conceive and then I believe in a dream, appears to Joseph to say: settle down, it's alright. God doesn't have to talk only to prophets
We do not have very many Mormons in Tennessee, and I have never known a Mormon or seen a temple, but I have always had the impression that Mormonism was a cult-like religion. I became interested in Mormonism after the Lori Vallow Daybed crimes came to light. After doing some research and watching some videos like these, I definitely cannot understand why anyone with common sense would be a practicing Mormon unless he or she was brainwashed. It appears to me that this Joseph Smith was a sham and scammer and he is still scamming people today in the name of money and power.
I had a revelation last night. I cant remember it exactly but it was something along the lines of " I , the lord am not happy with thine wife, for she hath not provideth her husband with a slice of cake and a cup of tea, and thus should go about doing so immediately or I will show her my wrath" I told my wife about it, but she thinks that it was from the devil.
Taking it further back and to its logical conclusion, how about the veil? Wiping your children’s memory then asking them to trust their feelings is a mess
@@SaneAsylum Not sure I’m picking up what you’re laying down but it feels a lot like “the thinking has been done” which, sure if that works for you. Doesn’t for me.
@@cmitc01 No, not at all. The purpose of life is an objective choice absent compulsion so... That (as you will one day find out) is objectively true. There are lots of things people didn't believe in that later turned out to be true. As my entire point illustrates, you still get to pick which side of that you want to be on.
1:45:20 I recently realized that the temperance movement coincided with the word of wisdom independent of this after having watched the Knowing Better video about the movement. It also made a lot of sense both as to why coffee and tea were banned as part of it since those weren't considered okay in that movement. And also why soft drinks weren't banned but likely would have been since the first soft drink didn't exist at the time the temperance movement was taking off. (tangent.... also it's interesting to see so many Mormons that were either outside of Utah or were still devout when I left the church in 2002 describe soft drinks as against the word of wisdom when it never was considered against it in the churches I grew up in)
The Monty Python scene makes me laugh hard every time I watch it. Joseph Smith was a fraudulent, money hungry, mysogonist. How can anybody accept his word as truth? He founded a church to enable his lust to flourish and his greed to be fulfilled. Today's leaders are following his lead by hoarding money and living a lavish lifestyle.
God’s personality and way of doing things in Joseph Smith’s time is totally different from the God in the New Testament. Can you imagine God telling the Pharisees and scribes “You better accept Jesus, my beloved son, as your Savior or I will destroy you.”
l believe that the god of the lds came from joseph's imagination. That is why mormon Jesus behaves and speaks differently. Respectfully, He is not real, and cannot save. Please, please research all you can about the verifiability and reliability of the Bible. Research the truth claims of the lds church, it's doctrines and history. I once was a true believer. The people within the church are so beautiful.🌹 They are what is true, not the twisted doctrine or lies about the hidden history. 💔
Alexander Campbell's 1832 analysis of problems with the Book of Mormon - "Delusions" is fascinating and worth a look by Mormon Stories. This is an analysis that's less than 2 years after the publication of the Book of Mormon - a contemporary analysis of problems with early Mormon truth claims.
Here's what I need: how do you address 'line upon line, precept on precept'? My very active Mormon family's counter- arguments largely consist of more info/knowledge being given to Joseph & the Church in smaller, more easily observable chunks. Also, what is the 'WHY'? If you can't be persuaded that Joseph Smith was after money, power, influence to the point of risking his own life, why would he keep perpetrating the con? Hubris, narcissism, sociopathic tendencies? I would have gotten out after being tarred & feathered, if not before.
59:57 and man I thought this week’s Torah Portion on building the tabernacle was tedious. That “revelation” feels like a joke. Why is it canonized scripture is a good question. What does it teach us in the present other than the church follows the example of Joseph and hides money and invests it and doesn’t pay out to anyone else?
Go to the BIBLE... That's the way to see if what JS claims is "God's" plan, is really from God... In Matthew19, Jesus counsels, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning, made them male and female, and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife ((not WIVES)), and the TWO will become one flesh?" ...I'm sure there are plenty of unseen devious spirits, that are eager to take the place of/stand in for "God" when God's Word is not trusted... = )
At about 1:27:48 Nemo holds up his German made pencil. Curious what brand it is as I like nice mechanical pencils. I have a few Rotrings which were a German brand that is now (mostly) produced in Japan and no longer in Germany.
image if a general conference talk shows up censored in the ensign. Oh wait that has happen, The infamous "The church and the Gospel" Talk by Eleder Poelman in 1984 that John did a review on. They not only edited in the ensign they made Poelman go back and redo his talk and then they spliced it to the original to make it look like it was the original. Going back and editing revelations throws a whole lot of shade on the validity of those previous revelations. Did God not know what he was doing or did Joseph? So confusing. Why not just announce an addition to it? But that would point out the glaring problems with the originals though.
People who have been born into & indoctrinated into any and all religions need to start asking themselves some hard questions… these man-made coercive control systems have harmed so many. Follow the money. Who benefits most from these “rules & revelations”.
I have a question and I'm hoping I get a response. What about the revelation from Joseph Smith through the seer Stone to sell the copyright of the book of Mormon in Canada? Have you brought this up yet? It was a failed revelation. Anything you can share would be helpful to me.
It was rather hard for him not to focus on what everyone was attacking so violently from day 1 don't you think? I see it as a positive quality given his circumstances.
@@Mark_McC You're probably right. I mean Joseph was met with bouquets of flowers when he told people about his experiences. Don't know how I missed that among the viscous attacks that saw him in hiding from (lest I repeat myself) day one.
@@SaneAsylum sure. Go ahead. Swallow all of the kool-aid you want. Whatever works for you. Took me 50 years to see the extent of all the nonsense so you do you.
@@Mark_McC You state "Took me 50 years to see the extent of all the nonsense" in an attempt to appeal to (your assumption) more experience but in reality it just sounds like a bad line on a resume that is more of a disqualifier than a qualifier. You spend a life building something only to realize that you had built it all wrong so tore it down along with 50 years of toil that amounted to nothing. That says nothing of me nor my choices (which time will bear out I am quite sure). You think that people are wrong because they came to a similar conclusion as you, when you were. There are many inherent flaws in that logic!
Declaration of Indepence US declared from independence from a monarchy with King George ruling. The monarchy from my memory, at the time, had no separation of powers. I think the founders (US) got inspiration from Native American tribe (Iroquois) and maybe the Dutch.
On the subject of Lucy Walker, I wonder why you exclude the history of her own personal witness, and manifestation from an angel before she consented to enter into plural marriage with Joseph. Did you exclude that detail intentionally or is your research incomplete?
as a non mormon I want to ask how you guys can so profoundly question the roots and individuals you base your beliefs on yet at the same time continue to hold on to or at least continue to retain in your hearts the "system" of mormonism?
Man, I find it sick that a dude who read the Bible all the time got the idea of prophecy was for his own gain. None of the prophets seemed to get much out of it! Lol. Prophets tended to have a short life expectancy because they told people what they didn’t want to hear. So for a dude who took the Bible literally, it is obvious he actually didn’t. He couldn’t. Because he never would have seen a prophet as the person he became. And unless it came to idolatry, it was rare for God in the Bible to smite an individual for not listening. To have that specific threat is wold because it takes the whole idea of free will out. You don’t get anything for listening but you get hurt for not? That isn’t a contract, that is torture
Im very CONFUSED. where is the playlist for this series? I click it and it links back to episode 36. I cant even find the playlist in the videos. HELP !
To address the concerns of the panel (outlaw people saying they speak for god, or constraining revelations of "leaders").... the answer is NOT to limit expression and speech (implementing church rules or limiting the 1st Amendment), but to EXPAND it. Is that not how this channel even exists? Imposed limitations does not have a very good track record for the last few thousand years. Common sense and critical thinking cannot be legislated or imposed. That is a path to ruin and self-destruction.
52:07 this reads like a bad B film with Remlo... anyone know what im talking about? "Take the drug once and you can stop, take twice your ok, take the drug 3 times and if you try to quit you die... " such a funny movie
1:23:20 The idea of challenging other people to produce content like the prophet's comes up several times in the Quran as well. "And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful.” (Quran 2:23) "Say: ‘If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another.'" (Quran 17:88) “Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), ‘Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call for help on whomever you can besides God, if you are truthful.” (Quran 11:13)
Regarding the "canal" that was mentioned in connection with the devil being upon the waters, I think that was a reference to the Erie Canal. It was probably seen as a pretty safe way to travel. For a really fascinating podcast about the importance of the Erie canal and its relationship to early Mormonism, don't miss this backyard professor interview on the topic. I had absolutely NO idea how important the Erie Canal was the the nation in general or to the early LDS church. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iZG564MEKT8.html
Did god pick less attractive old maids for JS? Maybe those struggling to get married? The hotter your wife the farther away you got sent on your mission? Things that make you go, hmmm.
I mean... “a loving God” is a fairly recent concept. Yahweh originated as a god of Justice and War. And Justice is more often cruel, rather than kind...historically speaking.
It's 2024 for god's sake. You people are still actually lending credence to the fantasies of a madman by pretending to seriously discuss his preposterous little scam?
You guys hit it right on the nose. Really what Joseph Smith did was a complete abuse of power. There are laws now for people who are clerics, ministers or in religious authority and taking advantage of people. One can even SUE these people. I hope humanity can grow passed these old ancient bad thinking. The god they have is not a god I would want. What if god is massive love and neither male or female. In all actuality women carry much love and teach it to the men through being mothers. I really do not like male gods too much. They should have a mother god that takes them by the ear and says that is enough; time out for you to think about what you have done.
One of the worst thing man has done is to create God in his own image: a deity who resembles an earthly human form with major human ego issues like hatred, threatenings, revenge, jealousy, and judging and thrusting people into hell. Christianity’s god is not my god!
Elohim was the pagan wicken devil God. There seems to be more pagan, islam, Muslim similarities than there is to the new testament christian from the bible. I learned about the first book in the book of mormon in high school. I could not be a part of the crimes of the book of mormon origin.
Lest you be #SMITTEN?!? 🤦🏻♂️🧐🤔🤨 Um...#SMITED! And now I smite you! #ENGLISHdictionary 🤪 You're still reading the #WrongBook 😂🤣😂 #Nemo! ...#ReWatchTheVideo 🤦🏻♂️
Interesting points. Thank you for bringing this to light. However, I'm surprised you're attributing 132 to Smith. Even minimal research shows it was clearly a Brigham Young fabrication. That one needs to be correctly attributed him.
Please avoid saying things like "God of the Old Testament is a Harsh Punishing God" because that is antisemitic. It puts out a false dichotomy that Jews are harsh, hard-hearted, and unforgiving. Our teachings don't say "don't wear mixed fabrics [really, wool plus linen, but Christians never remember this] or else you'll be smitten by God." They say that God is ever-merciful, ever-forgiving, that the death penalty is so heinous that it can only be carried out if the most impossible requirements are fulfilled (i.e., effectively NEVER), and that the Greatest Commandment as stipulated by Hillel (who died in 10 CE) in the Ethics of the Fathers is "what is hateful to you, do not do to others." Christians are the ones who decided the "Old Testament God" is the "harsh unforgiving bipolar God." Not Jews. Stop trying to show how hateful Christians are by claiming how hateful Jewish scripture is. Especially since you claim to be "Progressive," especially since we (Jews) are under the greatest threat of antisemitic violence in more than a generation in the US.
Thank you!! I find it hard to listen to Mormon Stories because of the regular, casual anti-Jewish sentiment. The God of the New Testament is *every bit as problematic* as the God of the Old Testament. Mormons and ex-Mormons alike have inherited an extreme caricature of the Old Testament that's not at all sensitive to the depth and breadth of the text and love to pull out individual problematic passages while glossing over everything problematic in the rest of their scripture. It's an absurd and offensive anti-Jewish lens on scripture. (They also seem weirdly unaware that Jesus, as portrayed in the Gospels, is a good Jew who consistently keeps Jewish law and quotes the Old Testament regularly; to take just one example, he says, "Love thy neighbor as thyself," from Leviticus 19:18.)
Judah takes the name of the guy that was going to murder his little brother but then realized he could sell him, so I really don't think that what you mentioned is even near the top of your list of problems when trying to force everybody to bend the knee to your choices!
Its not anti-semitic. Its anti-ancient scripture that is full of a guy you are supposed to worship committing genocide, homophobia, mysogeny and a host of other thing that are terrible. And note how he is saying "The God of the Old Testament" and not "The God of the Torah." He is calling out anyone who believes in the bronze age conceptualization of God not jews. This group may include some jews, but it is mostly is evangelical christians.
@@matthewjohnson3656 Your whole point relies on a subjective morality based upon valuing some more than others and your defense rests upon hacking on Jews being worse than hacking on Christians. This rubbish idea of the tolerant Left is lost on all others.
Did you guys remember the prophecy that Joseph got that he didn’t have to do manual labor on the Kirkland temple? Everyone else did but God commanded that he didn’t have to? Ridiculous! 😂. I know you can’t cover them all but to me, this one was a hilarious doozy!!
😮whaaaat?! What a selfish dick move. Reminds me of Lori Vallow tho…she didn’t have to do any of the things the others did because she’s a “translated being”…how convenient
