From one of the co-authors....an awesome discussion and recommendations. I have nothing to add except this: since the book was written in 2009, the equipment in most commercial gyms has devolved to a degree (poor strength curves, biomechanics and friction) such that it is almost impossible to get a good stimulus without significant workarounds. This requires some increase in volume/frequency, but those increases are modest not drastic. Oh....one of my biggest regrets is ever coining the term "The Big 5".
@Dr. Doug McGuff, when you refer to a modest but not drastic increase in volume/frequency, could you please give us a ballpark idea of what such an increment might look like, for context? Thanks.
At 59 yrs old I guess I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. I found that with the Big 5 there was too much overlap and reduced my workouts to a Big 3 once a week: Chest Press, Pull-down, Leg Press one week, Shoulder Press, Row, Trap Bar Deadlift the extra week. I continue to make strength increases each workout. I think Jay's approach is more about bodybuilding than fitness.
May I ask you.. when one training a week for about 20 minutes is all one needs to grow muscles.. why that didn't make you big? Not enough time to do it?
It was the interview with Doug McGuff and Dr Joe Mecola that gave me my life back after years of overtraining and not understanding the importance of rest and recovery on a biological, physiological and hormonal level, I bought the book too. The most important part of my new enlightenment was that it is my body that tells me I've recovered 100 % and not me ! I've never scheduled a days training ever since my understanding of exercise effects on the body,especially Adrenals, CNS, Hormones etc was made aware to me by listening to Dr McGuff. I can't believe the more days I take off of training ( 7 - 10 days typically) the more benefits I have in terms of Strength, and overall a feeling of being a healthy happy confident hunan and being ready for anything that life brings my way. And I've found that most tines just a nice controlled Deadlift workout is enough as a while body benefit...
When I was in my 30s and 40s I was dogmatic, like others. Then I read Body by Science when it was published. I had read Slow Burn and Power of 10 and at that time had access to Nautilus Nitro. Right now I am doing the Big 5, switching leg press and leg curl every other week. I am getting to the point where I need a change. Before the Big 5, I was doing full body slow motion workouts, but adding curls skull crushers, etc. I had the My Corona virus a year and a half ago, so I am rebuilding from that. In December 2020, while I was still struggling to get off the couch, and gyms were closed, my wife bought me a Total Gym XLS form Christmas. I eyed that for a few days, went through RU-vid videos, and landed on Ben Bocchicchio's chanel, then bought his book. He also had a workout for slow motion exercise and Total Gyms. But, being a new toy, I just went at that Total Gym like a wild thing. Nintey minute workouts, set after set, everything I should not have been doing. After an initial growth in strength. last December I finally noticed I was heading backward. I put the breaks on, and started slow motion workouts again. I am now building strength, and tonus, to my body. I still use the 10/10 second rep. I am OCD like that. I do once a wweek strength training, at almsot 60 currently, once a week works. I am formulating a new workout, possibly based around super setting legs with a wall sit then leg press, also dips and pull downs. Once a week I do a tabata workout as well on a recumbent. Thank you for the video, and the very thought out ideas.
The two most brilliant minds in strength and resistance training . Doug mcguff and Doug Brignole . I made the mistake of being extremely dogmatic in following both early on . Now I use their principles ( I have read their books a couple of times ) but not dogmaticaly. Both of their books have simply pushed me in the right direction and allowed me to make intelligent choices . Great Video thanks.
In my opinion, whether you use machines or barbells - your individual ability to produce maximum effort and therefore maximum stimulation is the most important factor. I would rather a person use free weights than poorly designed machines if they don't have access to quality equipment. Proper HIT training is about training as intensely as possible while doing the exact volume and frequency that enables your body to produce maximum growth given enough time to completely recover AND grow. I think beginners would do well with 1-2 sets per exercise and 1-2 exercise per muscle group, BUT once they know how to train they would benefit most from 1 properly performed set of 1 exercise per muscle group. Each person needs to track their progress with a training journal and in time, through experimenting with volume and frequency, should be able to figure out what works best for them. A large percentage of people will make optimal progress on an A and B workout schedule comprised of 4-6 exercises each performed once a week - one A and one B workout a week - two workouts a week total. But as your strength griws and your ability to inroad the muscle grows, for many people additional rest days will be required to fully complete the procesd of recovery AND adaptation. The better a person understands the principles of high intensity exercise and the better they pay attention to their bodies response to it, the less cookie cutter their training will be. After 30 years of training I know I only require 3 compound exercises per workout, performed for 1 set. Each workout being 96 hours apart or more. Your muscle fiber type, tolerance to exercise stress, recovery speed, and how strong your adaptation response is is all highly individual. As an example you might be all fast twitch fibers, have limited tolerance to exercise volume and frequency, but produce large adaptations to exercise stress when given enough rest time - which can take as long as 2 weeks for some people. That almost exactly describes myself. 1 set performed once every two weeks can produce as much strength and muscle growth as many people would get in 4 workouts spread over two weeks. Pay attention to how your body responds over weeks, months, years - abd utilize the principles of HIT and you will achieve the best results your individual genetics can produce.
Funnily enough I am a 70 year old woman. I love the simplicity of the method and I am a fast twitch dominate type so I build muscle easily but need a lot of recovery. I don’t want to get swole, just want to maintain my usual pretty good level of strength going into the sarcopenia years. For me the book was the perfect advice. It does need the right mindset though. I am fine going to failure and pushing on a non moving plate but my younger husband finds it scary to push himself that far. We each find the programme that fits us I guess. For me once a week is the main selling point. My gym is an hour away so each workout takes a half day and I still need time for my three times a week running.
I practice super slow HIT based on B.B.S. but have incorporated a few other exercises (Fly's, Dips, Abs) after adhering to the "Big-5" which Doug regrets socializing. I WAS at once a week because of recovery time, but I have recently moved back to a twice a week protocol with different exercises. Monday and Thursday. I get it done in about 20 minutes per session.
If you are really going to absolute failure, you don't need another exercise for that muscle. I am pretty sure these were your words in a video. As you said, going to failure is skill, so why don't you practise that skill more? BUT THAT BEING SAID, IT DOESN'T MATTER. I do it with push up and squats every day. Many modes works
100% dead on, Jay. I allowed myself to get dogmatic with BBS. My best BBS cadences were Big 5 4/3 in the beginning then after a while every 4 days, no cardio and lower carb. I used drop sets and then started plateauing. I wasn't huge but people would ask me what I was doing in the gym and I told them 15mins 2x per week. Switched over to Mentzer esque principles bearing in mind that dude most likely was using some sort of anabolics, but that doesn't mean I can't optimize my physique. Not judging, he just didn't seem natural to me. I haven't figured out HIT for arms yet, they are my weakest link along with my shoulders as far as HIT goes. I've historically had arms to write home about only with direct training at higher volume and freq. Anyways, there's this straight from McGuff: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rICjOxnulGo.html
Before going any further, let me mention I've read the whole book a while ago. And I'm still applying some of its principles in my training to this day, in particular training to failure each time and counting time under load instead of reps, as it's a much reliable metric when it comes to monitoring performance. That being said, one aspect the book completely overlooks is the repeated bout effect. It implies you will always need a week or so to fully recover from your intense workout. This is just not true. The more you train, the more your body adapts to recover as fast as possible from the training. Therefore, you end up leaving gains on the table if you keep training only once a week.
I've had the opposite experience. I"ve read the book several times. After 4 years of once a week big 5 with a trainer on Medex machines, I had stopped gaining upper body strength. I switched to once a week doing leg press plus 2 of the upper body exercises, switching to the other 2 the following week. I started gaining strength again. We are all a bit different!
@@johnwise7693 : indeed...there are so many different variables involved in the production of strength, each of them being highly individual, that YMMV considerably!
Its a great advice! At first after reading the book I trained as detailed in the book and the results were very poor. It wasn't until I added exercises and increased the frequency that I was able to gain muscle. For various reasons (equipment, ability to generate fatigue) the big five once a week will not be the best for everyone.
This is a very good point. I have noticed the same in the FB BBS forums. These people apparently have not read anything McGuff has written more recently, either. He is one of the smartest guys in the industry, and he now has many many more years of experience and thinking than when he wrote BBS. He has even pointed out that you can get good results with a little bit lower intensity and a bit more volume, as well. The key is to get the combination of Intensity, Volume and Recovery time right.
Great video. I was curious what your criticisms were, but I think you are 100% accurate. The vast majority of people who buy any book never read it cover to cover much less twice. Couple that with the fact that people prefer hard and fast rules, rather than principles which must be applied to their situation, and it explains much of the problems you’re discussing.
1/If a novice isn’t using MedX , RenX, SuperSlowSystems, Nautilus, or Hammer equipment , the likelihood of productive intensity is minimized by poor resistance curves, bad ergonomics,& high friction. 2/Most novices can’t train with true intensity without a qualified trainer.
As long as the individual has enough recovery time relative to that needed for the specific exercising undertaken in their own particular case , Doug McGuff makes this exact point himself in an interview on You Tube with Drew Baye
This reminds me of the community that walking from Mike Mentzer. They were dogmatic and rushing through the processing and only using a once-a-week routine.
I found after 6months it made me super aggressive, the hard part was trying to get into the zone Like when you feel the pump but its a different feeling Dumbbells and most basic gym machines just dont target hit the spot as well as the nautilus machine
Almost forgot to mention a good book to read on H.I.T. Training is Training For Mass by Gordon LaVelle. Both the original printing and the 2nd edition. Hard to find books because those Lucky enough to have them do NOT want to resell them! They are just that good.
So what super sets should you do with the big 5? And with what cadence? Keep in mind all I have is a squat/bench rack, barbell, and EZ bar........ No machines at home.
Is there someone who understand the principles in the book well enough to assist a woman in starting a program with free weights at home. I just need some guidance. I have lost 30 lbs of fat and I am ready to start lifting weights. Any help would be appreciated.
I have recently developed a program based on body by science that focuses on isolation movements for upper body and compound movements for lower. I did so after a great deal of research and careful consideration of some of my unique needs and attributes. I would love to get your take on it if you'd be willing to take a quick look at it. Let me know. :-) Thank you
Jay typically doesn't respond, but I would suggest tracking your protein and calories daily. I do 2 full body workouts each week with roughly 72 hourse in between. I usually aim for Tuesday and Saturday. Track your progress with your phone or note pad and try to use progressive overload by weight or by the time under the load. I usually only move up in weight, when I can lift the weight for two minutes without fail. It stinks as we age...we will lose muscle due to drop in testosterone, but as I age...I'm going down with a fight. I aim for roughly 150 grams of protein daily. You can always start lower with protein and just track your progress. Again..protein has now become dogma as well. I don't do the 1lb per body weight dogma..I simply calculate 0.8 x my lean mass. If you can't calculate lean mass accurately...use a diagram and determine what is your healthy BMI weight. Most men who are 6ft...should weigh roughly between 190-200lbs..so that's a place to start. I'm not Jay, but I've had success with this. Just track your progress and see how your body responds. You can also have your testosterone levels checked and see it you may need TRT, which doctors can prescribe if you are severely low. I would always ask your physician to be safe. I think we can simply learn more by just seeing how our body responds for ourselves because we're all different. Genetics play the crucial low in how we will end up looking after we workout. It's sad to me that I will never have biceps like Arnold's, but oh well:(
I workout at home, lifting to failure with free weights can be very dangerous. When possible I'll pre-exhaust with free weights and switch to a machine to empty the tank. The limited range of motion also allows for partial movements and static holds.
Are you sure we're talking about the same book? I read BBS a couple of times, cover to cover and liked it. Even so, I do a few more exercises a bit more frequently. However, while the book says that the Big 5 is a good starting point, it does not suggest to increase volume or frequency; it proposes the opposite. On page 92, the authors write that, in time, more recover days should be added if progress stalls. And then on page 142 there is reference to the Big 3 as a person progresses. Again, that's not what I am doing, but that is what the book says. The book does not suggest that you should be doing more work more often, all else implicitly being equal (i.e., with a trainer or otherwise). Further, and I've mentioned this in a post to another of your videos, since you prescribe direct arm work, what is your response to Fisher and Steele's research concluding that isolation work (i.e., biceps, triceps) does not enhance either size or strength of the muscle group if proper pulling and pushing compounds are performed? And, finally, is that a MAGA hat lurking in the background? Please tell me you're kidding.
I can agree with you. BBS is an exceptional well written book, I have read it several times. But one can be misleaded about frequency and volume. As you said there’s even the chapter about the 3 exercises split once a week, and all the benefits it could have (if I’m not wrong written by John Little). I approached BBS after 20 years of training, for years the typical bro split variations and then I approached HIT already before BBS. So I was not the kind of sedentary guy who magically though to have find the way to get in shape with 12 minutes of exercise a week. But have to say BBS body is so well written that I convinced myself that all my previous training in the gym was wrong. Probably for half the part it was, too much volume, too much frequency for sure. It worked for some years yes, until my 30s, but then I needed a switch on my approach to training and HIT became very beneficial. However I went too far for some time and took the big 5 once a week like a bible. Then I increased again volume and frequency luckily. Now I’m training two times a week with a body split, 6 exercises each workout. Maybe I should do even more volume, but this is a pretty good compromise between results, time spent in the gym, recovery.
A maga hat? So what? Trump was one of the greatest American presidents! He was not the puppets previously or present that could be persuaded by money or power! He was well on his way to making America great again!
@@jhdrummer4815 Interesting post. What happened when you followed the Big 5 once a week? Did you lose size or strength? I ask since you noted that you subsequently increased both your volume and frequency.
@@velwell492 during that period of doing the big 5 once a week, I had slightly less muscle mass and weight that I have today. Probably strenght was same as is today. It was 15 years ago, since then I'm training two times a week with 14-16 exercises total a week, splitted on two workouts (upper-lower body). I'm not saying the difference is huge, is quite subtle but still visible on certain body parts especially. Up to you if you want to double your volume and time in the gym for that slightly more amount of muscle mass. For me is a quite manageable compromise.
Jay, why are you moving your hands whilst talking? Doug did not mention this additional movement in his book. It is likely that your overtraining your arms….🤣🤣🤣
