Can you PLEASE not use complete mixes when trying these saturation plugs, as its really difficult to compare a whole mix against just an individual instrument track? Not so much in this particular review, but the last few I found it hard to discern differences due to the full audio spectrum of the source material (too busy to hear the nuances). However, I know you'll need to get the original Sandstorm files from Darude, so it may be more tricky! ;)
@@musicdude1540 it's really simple. The more people leave comments the more the video gets seen. So he purposely does this to annoy people that will then leave comments and he'll also not use a plugin properly so even more people leave comments. Calling everything Sandstorm by darude instead of crediting the musicians is also a peeve of mine.
As we all know he doesnt really know shit about what he’s talking about. Room measurements have no meaning? Saturation plugins obviously go on full complete mixes.. As soon as a plugin does hit his ridiculous wants, he makes fun of its looks, whereas if it doesn‘t he preaches about his need for a screw driver to unscrew the wood/frontplate of the plugin. And dont get me started on when he basically made a video ad about a bloke who built a desk with integrated speakers, absolutely preaching that the desk doesnt need an acoustically treated room WHILST being in a room that could‘ve been a studio with the amount of acoustic treatment going on. There was a time when I respected his opinion (since it was actually based on something and his rants were kinda funny.) but that was lost a long time ago.
@@lilDaveist but you're still here in the end.......... ;)))) I feel where you coming from though. Entertaining- yes. Do these reviews really help? dunno
@@RoryRonde why not have a nylon stringed guitar piece and see if it adds more mojo to the signal, or a DI'd bass guitar to hear the hair and attitude it may add. Thats the real reason one can judge such a plugin in a real world scenario. On a whole mix, its like licking your finger and hoping for a result . Pretty pointless. I love this channel, and really enjoyed the studio rebuild as it added value and a realism to us muso's who love sound, gear and improving our skillset for mostly our own enjoyment. Come on Wytse, step it up. 💪
dude i love you but you gotta realise not everyone wants "modern", non-3D GUI right? a plugin is MORE than just a tool, and it should inspire you when you use it, and the looks of it is definitely a part of that. when i open up valhalla vintageverb i dont get inspired, i just know that it sounds great and i can dial the settings i want, but the experience ends there, it doesnt intrigue me to play around with it too much and experiment, and it also doesnt set a certain vibe right when i open it, sure we dont work with our eyes, but our eyes still works when we do mixing. and its aesthetically pleasing and fun to have skeumorphic, 3D WOODEN interfaces, not everything has to be plain and non analog-looking, these touches being added to the GUI is F U N, and keeps people inspired and in the mood. for the same reason you dont want to have your studio smelling like rotten fishes and fungus... could you work there? sure.. it doesn hurt your ears and doesnt disturb you doing your job, but its not very nice is it?
I really like the sound of this one. Not many saturation plugins gets me hooked. The presentation of the plugin is a bit rough imo, the saturation was on 30 and the gain on 50, so ofc its louder. If people cant figure this out themself, they are lucky to have you! :D
it's a terrible review. he whinges on pointlessly about the 'default' patch being louder, when -- right in front of all our faces -- we can clearly see the Sat knob is set to 30 on that patch. turn it to 0...clean. guy comes across like he has no idea what he's doing.
To me, it makes sense that they keep the look of their plugins, since all their old ones are still being used in studios everwhere. They could include a "modern" skin that you can enable in settings for people who care though.
There are some things I really don't like about this plug-in, but it sounds so damn good! It's like they looked at what people usually use multi-band saturation/distortion for and made it into a plugin that you can set up for a great sound with adjusting only a couple of knobs, while the processing underneath is much more complex. The tape saturation is at the same level as U-he Satin and the tube saturation is every bit as good as UA's. Bought it after demoing it for only a couple of hours.
It's not as good as the mighty softube tape of course nor the UAD102 But these are premium price companies... Otherwise well done another one of 50 situation plugins out there
I personally don't mind the "retro" looking GUIs, and the fact that this plugin is a revision of the old PSP Saturator, makes sense for it to look similar. I do agree though that default settings should be gain matched. Nevertheless, allow me to say that you were too harsh/biased in this particular video. PSP deserves much better than that. They were making excellent tools and pushed the industry, at a time when most youtubers were wearing diapers. Respect should always remain an important value. Please perceive this as a tiny bit of friendly advice. I do enjoy your videos.Cheers
Just a suggestion, for your plugin reviews have you considered demos with actual instruments or single unprocessed tracks that way we can better examine the actual capabilities of said plugins? I say this because adding additional effects to an already finished product could indeed be the wrong move in the end, but the right move in the beginning or middle and that way we can truly ascertain if something is Snake Oil or not, although most plugins are indeed that (snake oil), but they still deserve the best potential to prove themselves. I think this would make your videos more fruitful and beneficial. Just my two cents.
His vids are a first look into a plug, his experience and shares it with his audience.........I never , ever see them as a review, and as he always suggests, download and try the demo... Everyone has an opinion, a style or genre... or not... etc etc.... His just saying how HE sees it... Other wise, if he went into micro details, next thing you'd know they'd be complaints about the synth sounds used.........lol...In the end he'd just be other shill without grounded knowledge, suggesting they know better... like a lot of YT music maker content.... Remember, like he suggested, many of the YT audience these days haven't even sat down and mixed on a analog console....Little lone a large format one....... (And dont I know........Trust me on that) So, thats why the format works.. My 5 cents (due to inflation)
@@Rhythmattica I have and it isn't snake oil it has its applications. Snake oil is like a placebo, doesn't actually do what it advertises... and this works as a saturator so this video makes a false statement. People calling snake oil usually just prove they don't know what they're talking about. Psp apps are good across the board. No hard feelings matt it's all good I'm just saying he might suggest downloading the app but he is saying it doesn't work as intended basically and that's just not true.
Thing is that automatic gain compensation for any sort of non-linear processing is always going to be an approximation and guesswork by necessity. The other option would be to continuously analyze the audio signal and try to continuously level match it to the original, effectively making it also an automatic compressor at the same time, which in my opinion is pretty undesirable. Furthermore, nonlinear processing by definition adds harmonics and colors the sound, and has human hearing is more sensitive to different frequencies this further complicates the process of gain compensation. In my opinion if automatic gain compensation is within 1-2dB of the input (such as here) it has done its job reasonably well, and it's quite difficult to consistently achieve better results than that. It's not really about using the "computing power", but that it's a really difficult problem-almost impossible, even-to solve comprehensively in general.
I agree, and even Fabfilter plugins are sometimes off a lot (like Pro C sometimes autogains by at least 3dB too much). But with saturation and gain staging it is not THAT difficult... And I definitely expect it by now in distortion/saturation plugins, got deceived way too many times - to the point of thinking Saturn sounds not so great - but it does, it's just they are the only ones not "cheating".
@@florinmusic That detail doesn't necessarily demonstrate anything. I'd assume way they've calibrated the make up parameter it likely means that at "50" the gain compensation is most correct on average. Apparently it slightly increases the gain at low drive settings, but I would presume it's close to unity gain for the typical settings used with the plugin. It is arguable though what the default for the init preset should be, but I wouldn't say this choice is strictly incorrect or anything.
@@Friedeggonheadchan sure but it’s not a good look either way. Everyone knows adding gain is a perfect way to get fooled (especially if you’re a rookie). I think in the digital world those things should not be a thing. Regardless what analog gear it emulates when you’re not cranking a value you can at least except the same gain.
I really like the sound of this. As with many PSP plugins, opening up the secret settings tap is a good idea. It's a shame auto-gain isn't standard in all plugins these days...
I doubt they are “making it louder” on default purposely. Rather, I think it was due to there being some saturation application in the default setting. Would have made sense if you had pulled the saturation all the way down first. I do like the warmth knob though I was impressed with how smooth it sounded
I learned that real saturation lowers the metered levels but highten perceived loudness. I think this phenomen is the true basis benchmark of a high quality saturator.
Also the sony inflator is an absolute classic. Old but GOLD. I was using it again the other day and could not believe how much presences it added without increasing peak volume at all.
Wytse, some people like skeuomorphism and it's not a bad thing. For some plugins I like plain 2D desing and for some I like fake wood. That's why using skins could be the norm for developers.
Plug-in layout, looks, design, is all part of the experience for me, for sure. Wood was never an integral part of synth building, but we all love the look of it, don’t we?
How does this compare to the Vintage Warmer 2 I wonder? ( I started out with all PSP 15 yrs ago as well as Logic's stock) that's the one I still use mostly, they are good plugins - I guess you could say the GUI looks like a 'normal' PSP plugin ;-)
Thanks bro! I was debating on getting this, but that warmth knob grabs me. Lol! I'm going to purchase it, as soon as I get to my computer 🖥. The HG-2 seems to fit more energetic material. I put it on a vintage style mix, and I did not sit well on the mixbuss. But on another mix I completed and is now on all platforms, it fit well on the mixbus. I'm thinking the source material could dictate which of these saturators I use on the mixbus. I'll own them both, and have them ready for whatever the material may be. I heard the Klanghelm SDRR is a good on also. Thanks for your reply my guy💯🙌🏼
PSP have been an essential part of my toolbox for the last 15yrs. Especially for compression on vocals, piano and brass. Their interfaces used to be a lot more simple without gimmicks, which I prefer, but they've always sounded great!
I kinda agree with you on the default setting issue, but then I thought what's the point of having a setting that's exactly the same as not having the plugin inserted?
Your 1000% right. I once saw a Waves plugin that added 3-4db of gain on the default setting. I don't remember which one, and the plugin wasn't even great compared to other companies.
@@BuenoLaidley a lot of them do that, including 1176 emulations. I once complained about it in a review on their website and got a reply from them saying that there is a preset called "full reset" or something, but it must be engaged additionally, which I think is not fair.
That analogue like break up at clipping is convincing. I'm not sure I've heard a plugin do it better. But why not try on separate tracks or stems rather than a pop mix with already limiting on master buss?
I still love the PSP Vintage Warmer and use it in a Tracker program called Renoise. Of course you know trackers, because Darude made their first version of Sandstorm in a Tracker! Great show, keep up the good work.
Is not a new plugin it’s a upgrade from the PSP Mixpack you will probably see the rest of the plugin get the new GUI and update system and the upgrade will be cheap just like the PSP Saturator
The boost is maybe annoying, but then again, it sounds nice. And in the end, this is what counts. I like shiny knobs on plugins like those, while I prefer eqs with a more graphical display. Overall the ui is nice, imo. Would I care if it was looking "modern"? Nope.
I love your show. I learn a good bit and you turn people on to some good gear and philosophical approaches. I'm not sure why some people get their knickers in a twist about you being, well, YOU. Frankly, I'm happy that you take the time to do this. I think some people miss the point that these are speedy segments designed to show some basic overviews and that they also require a good bit of effort and time to create. I also appreciate that you're a total geek and love what you're doing as well as putting a bit of a wink and nod into it all. Your gear and productions are top class, even if I don't care for every genre, I can tip my hat to you. C'mon folks, lighten up and just do what the man always says, "download it and try it for yourself". Isn't that the point? You want him to do all the work?? Silly rabbits. Thanks White Sea Studios.
White Sea! Big fan ❤️ Can you please do Tone Projects? Never heard as much good feedback as I have heard from that company. They have two products, a saturator and a mastering compressor. Both have unlimited (I believe) demos that you just cant save presets or recall. Occasional silence dropout too. Id love to see this! Thanks for all you do!
Okay, very tweakable saturation plugin, nice. Put it on the saturation pile... I'm looking to buy the Drawmer 1976,:). There's too much saturation in this world! I can't see the forest anymore.
I really like the little red line on the meter thats showing more of the average of the level. I always second guess how hard to hit a VU sometimes when I have a bass heavy track so I love that feature.
Used to use PSP vintage warmer a lot.. this reminds me a lot of that... Just typed this, then you mentioned it... I don't think PSP is uncertain about their products... I think just a lot of their consumers are that shallow.. I'm actually stunned by the amount of "professionals" in the field that don't catch stuff like that.
The results of this reminds me of ToTape by Chris at Airwindows but without the ability to slam it into oblivion. Would be interested to see how Airwindows compares to these paid for plug ins in your future shoot out!
Doesn't sound that different to the saturation knobs in some of their older plugins (ie mix sat and some of Vintage Warmer2 combined) - however it was cheap to existing customers.
I will demo it. It seems to sound good, and the level of control is better than what generic saturators are offering. As for the auto gain, I don't care that much. Usually I save my own starting presets. Thanks for the review. :)
This is a great plugin, just like Decapitator (which the close minded and the entitled finds hard to render and digest for just reasons). Still annoying to watch it looked at by someone who is only after creating cringy dramma for a dozen more views(Oldest trick in the book). A lot of us appreciate the vintage looking graphics that goes into these interfaces. Great job PSP folks, you're truly one of a kind!
Am I the only one that peeped that he said he’s been talking to a lot of plug-in developers? White Sea’s saturation plugin coming soon called “SnakeOil V2” in Aax vst2 au and vst5 formats 🤔😎🤫
Would it be possible that there would be no gain if the saturation knob would be on zero? I don't know, just a thought. It is on 30 by the default setting. I know a lot of plugins use the gain trick, but it might not be case here, since there is no automatic gain compensation, and obviously there would have to be some gain if there is saturation on, which in this case it is. Just a thought. (edit) I missed the makeup gain... so perhaps not Thanks for another great video otherwise! :)
You can't model saturation using impulse responses. Convolution is a linear operation while saturation isn't. You can however model the frequency response of old gear with it.
Btw, who told you that they use impulse responses for modeling saturation? Just curious! AFAIK, the standard impulse responses that are used for reverbs, guitar cab emulation etc can only approximate LTI systems. Yes, there is ways to use impulse responses for modeling non-LTI systems, like Acustica Audio is doing, but to my knowledge they are the only ones doing it (and maybe KIT Plugins with their BB N105, but I don't think the actual saturation is convolution based, only the EQ curves). Is it Acustica you've been talking to? ;D
I am 53 years old... I LIKE the Knobs and the VU's !!! And i hate sometimes the cryptic new GUI's, sometimes they are good and intuitive... But sometimes, like Saturn or Volcano... WTH ! Btw. i am able to hear the sonic fingerprint, even with a little jump ;-)
Thank you for your input! I agree with the fact that we don't need another visual emulation of an old machine (which I love), just good sounding P-I with nice interfaces. So long from Kansas :-)
i guess i agree with you. It´s time that developers stop doing ssl, neve, api etc emulations. Start doing your own things. Not exactly, but waves did a great thing with the scheps omni..wich is the sum of all emulations (i know, don´t kill me), but at least they try a little bit...after all the ssl, neves, 1176 etcs. Eventide did it with their new split eq...thats is what we need..more new. I still like the vintage GUI...but they could trhow a vintage look and a modern look...nowadays that is just so easy and it wont consume any cpu...anyway...cool video
Technically they aren't "faking" it tho. At the default setting the saturation knob is at like 10 o'clock. So that would be adding gain. I agree they should set the default state to do nothing but at least it's not JUST a level boost. The level boost is due to the saturation level.
What i heard was just a good Saturator / warmer - it would be nice to have. But i just did not realy get warm with it. I realy think buying Saturn will be the better choice. It could ne nice if someone wants to widen out his options of different Saturation algorithms. That would give the Plugin its place. But for that price its a great plugin.
Many people prefer a different style to work with. Imagine being a purely jazz producer and having to use WAprod plugin guis. Even fab can have to modern a vibe for them. Your opinions on this seem pretty harsh to have them be based mostly on personal taste… I get you don’t like the default makeup gain, but it doesn’t take away from the use of the product in any way. I normally like your reviews but the last couple I’ve watched you made a surprising amount of hasty observations/disappointments only to find shortly thereafter you just hadn’t found the setting yet. You should probably do a more thorough tour of the settings options before diving into messing with effects and saying things are missing. Just incase people begin hearing a bad enough missing setting only to close the video and move on, yet you found what made them pass it up seconds later. A short attention span could lead to a false perception of a plugin if you judge to soon. Just some advice since I think accurate and well done reviews are important. Love the channel, thanks for all you do!
I think ita ok not to have automatic gain on plugins like this one because it wants you to compensate by reading the VU meter which Is probably the reason it has one on it.....Just like you have to when gain staging. And since its a saturation plugin a boost in sound is probably gonna happen, just use the VU to balance the levels back out. Not every plugin has to be made so simple, this one is probable marketed for people who understand what saturation does to a signal and how to use a VU meter already. I know you understand better than most people.
@@AlextheBant I see your point and it's a valid one. I just think not every plugin needs it. We have those options in other plugins so if that's what you need choose something else. I think this one is easy enough to adjust. I also feel like sometimes things like that can dumb down users and make them dependent on such things instead of learning how to use a VU meter and adjusting on your own. There are both Pros and Cons in my opinion. I appreciate your input, good point.
I'd also like to add that the new fabfilter volcano 3 also doesn't have auto gain for the exact same reason, because it emulates analog saturation but in a way you can add it in to your liking instead of automatically applying it to the signal like this one does. We can't say fabfilter doesn't know better so it must have been purposely. Just my opinion.
I still remember "PSP" as something good in terms of VST plugins. But when I look at all products on website, I can't remember using any of them. It's like meeting a childhood friend, but having no idea who it is and what you did together )
I don’t agree... the skeuomorphic look is really a matter of taste. Nuff said? No! The idea that one has to over zealously kick everything into the future leaves no room for ying and yang. I love vinyl and according to you I should just move on to... what? I understand the sound argument but ultimately that’s also a question of taste. I love to work with skeuomorphic plugins, it’s an aesthetic that I prefer over some more contemporary graphics. Different strokes for different folks. And as Malcom Gladwell said... what would Heinz ketchup have become without choice... or something like that😜
The software looks similar to Shadow Hills Mastering compressor plugin. The Shadow Hills compressor A plugin is the beast for final master mixing. I thought the Black Box analog plugin was tuff, and it is amazing but The Shadow Hills Mastering compressor is the beast for final mixing for me. At Plugin Alliance you can catch them on sale every now and then but the plugin can cost $300 or more. My new Shadow Hills compressor blew my Black Box Analog plugin out the water. Shadow Hills makes all your tracks stand out.
Hey Wyste, have you ever done a video on mic modelling software? I’d really like to know you’re thoughts and if they are worth using for someone who doesn’t have the funds for expensive equipment. Currently I use my iPhone to record vocals (live monitoring through aux) just like a real mic.
Why don't you join forces with a plugin company and make plugins that you think aren't snake oil.. but if you do, do dual interfaces.. one for people like me, who like them looking vintage, and the modern type you like
I searched the channel but I can't find any videos on the DrMS plugin. Snake oil..? Seems all the video demos of it, it just sounds horribly out of phase when people use the 'zoom' and 'depth' knobs. Yet certain people talk it up like it's some kind of secret weapon.
Automatic grain: Create a parallel track with just plugin in default mode. I say this rather than use a loudness matching plugin because it might be an apparent loudness. I don't know what you're using to monitor gain objectively.
In relation to the other comments, I think the core "issue" is the treatment of every plugin under the same analytical lens when some, like this, might be more intended for creative ventures than anything else. Definitely understand how that can be a difficult thing to place yourself in the perspective of though, considering you're more engineer than producer. Still, always interesting to hear things from a purely logical POV though.
The new GUI is beautiful PSP has to be creative in their own ways. We get it we all enjoy a GUI like fabfilter bet that’s that company let’s not make everything a cookie cutter That’s today problem with everything copy what others are doing kill your creatively. I love the looks of real vintage gear ⚙️
White Sea, I just think you're just a cool dude man. You really speak in common sense. Sometimes I don't get what persons are reaching for with their sound when sometimes the sound they start off with is already great. How much better does it has to be before you can make everybody agree that it's better?
I don't know. This thing with PSP saturator is just as easy as setting it the way you want it to sound like and set is as the default preset so whenever you open it, it's the way you want it to be. You're complaining too much when you can just set it once and forget about it. The UI is laid out very well and everything looks very easy to use. Too much whining about a problem that can easily be easily "fixed" and it's up to the users whether they like it like that or not. Just review the damn sound. P.S. I've liked most of your content but as of late, it's just whining and whining about auto gain compensation on every plugin. Your title of your next videos should be "Will It Auto Gain Compensate?"
@@mcRast I completely understand that. Maybe the complaints about auto gain compensation should go in one video once and for all. I was expecting a review of the plugin and not a whole video of Whytse complaining about one very small problem while there are tons to talk about the thing.
