Psychology of Psychonauts | Ethics of Green Needle Gulch 

Makes sense to me

We only attempted to restrict the use of posien gas after it had been unleashed. @@GamingUniversityUoG

Also before Ford used the astrolabe on Maligula and Augustus all their previous experiments were on willing and consenting subjects. So while they probably went too far they didn’t really know that at the time as they were the initial pioneers into the field where everything was unknown. While a support structure was mentioned we don’t know what exactly it was though I doubt it was sufficient. I think the main problem was that they didn’t formalise their testing process before Ford broke his mind after they became famous. Or formally state a code of ethics (though they might have had a informal one the games don’t reveal save they all respected each other).

Good thing all that experimentation didn’t cause any meta psychological manifestations. … What could be the limits of meta psychological physics in their world anyway?

Sort of like how OSHA was written in blood.

It was not until she realized she killed her sister that the Maligula complex emerged in full.

@@GamingUniversityUoG exactly and as I said, the death of her sister was an accident And it’s more than likely that the damn itself was poorly made, and there may have been pre-existing high water, and her rain meant to disperse. The protesters was just the straw that broke the camels back.

I could see it, or at least that he's a major cause of it somehow. We spend the entire game exploring most of them except for Otto who is basically only there to give you gadgets for exploration/completion/justify shops existing, invent the Astrolabe, and have a plot excuse as to why -they don't need to pay Jack Black for overworld lines- Helmut's brain is kept safe after all this time.

@@edfreak9001 true, but even something as simple as he providing the gadgets is relevant to him having ulterior motives, more than just being a game mechanic, as he says himself that what he provides is only supposed to be used by agents, not kids like Raz. So, he definitely used Raz to test them and see how they're handled on the field by someone inexperienced. So, if he's willing to test his creations like that, who's to say he didn't experiment with the rest of the Psychic Seven? His actions kept making life worse for everyone, while he gained his glory and funding, so it cannot be a coincidence. The same way that the events of the first game were recontextualized to have been started by a character of the second game, now they set up a framework for the story to continue, with some direction already hinted at.

One detail I noticed about Otto is he holds his necklace when using psychic powers instead of it coming from his head. It makes it feel like comparatively he is weaker than the others psychically but uses machines to compensate for that. Amplifying his power. Not sure how that all fits into your thoughts but I felt it interesting to point out.

@GamingUniversityUoG I did notice that as well. It goes unexplained and without any context in the game itself, no one even commenting on it as far as I'm aware, so it's a detail about Otto's character that doesn't have. But you are right, it feels the necklace is used to artificially amplify his psychic powers, and he is weaker than the others, with him being an expert in building psycho-reactive technology, as the game puts it, to channel his psychic energy, rather than having the mental power to do so himself like the others. It could be simply a representation on his character design, of him being a scientist and building machines and using one to channel his powers, but there can be more to that. After doing a bit of research myself, I find that Otto could have a condition called aphantasia, and the necklace is an artificial "mind's eye", that he created to not only enhance, but actually be able to use, his psychic power, as he would not be able to create mental images in his head, and therefore be locked out of his abilities as a psychic, the necklace being a medium to bring them out. Which would also explain why we can't visit his mind in the game, this condition would make it that he either doesn't allow access to his mental world, or doesn't have one to begin with. And, the machines he creates can be seen as an embodiment of his thoughts and imagination, as through the drawing of blueprints and the building of machines that he embeds with his mental energy through the necklace, his "mind's eye", he manifests in the physical world what he cannot in his mind, his ideas brought to life in a more literal sense than the existence of creatures like censors, regrets, etc. This is shown in the machines he created when he was sad or hungry, or the camera that can take pictures inside the minds of others. To sum up. Aphantasia would create a mental block that he cannot overcome, being then a psychic without actually being able to use psychic powers. So, he becomes a scientist, and invents psycho-reactive technologies to channel his mental energy outwards. He is then found by Ford, goes with him to mine psytanium which would be fundamental to develop his technologies, and takes the opportunity to further his research of the mind with the Seven, the Astrolathe being built so he could ultimately alter his own mind to unlock his full potential as a psychic. The foundation of the Psychonauts and the battle of Grulovia end up being mere side effects to his own goals, as the Psychonauts gave him funding and recognition, and from their foundation and the ethically dubious exploration of the mind they did on themselves, to the battle and its consequences up to the point where Raz appears and, with Otto's discreet but intentional aid, is able to "fix" everyone, all of it was data into the development of the Astrolathe. He had to stop when everyone else was too broken to continue after the battle, but he gathered dead agent's brains to continue his research on his own, and after the events of the game, having a conclusion to the Astrolathe's findings, he claims he's going to develop it further for commercial use, but "aesthetic changes in the mind" could mean getting rid of his condition rather than accepting it. From this, there can be formed a foundation for his character development into an antagonistic role in a future story, going against the Psychonauts' and Raz's values on approach to mental health and acceptance of oneself, among other things. I hope this all is coherent enough to understand, I tried my best to express my thoughts on the subject and they kept developing as I wrote...

​@@perkasenior From what I'm understanding of your theory, I can see his mental world looking one of two ways. Option 1: it is wholly mechanical with no natural landscape, spare parts everywhere, and areas that are still under construction, as if the mental world itself is an unfinished prototype. This would naturally extend from his reliance on his inventions to channel his psychic energy, possibly even needing to use the PSI portal on the necklace itself to act as a bridge. Option 2: it is VERY sketchy, like a lower quality version of his blueprints. This could be a more direct display of the aphantasia, as being unable to clearly picture your own mind would show just how frustrated Otto has been for his entire career. Writing this reply, I'm picturing a way to blend the two ideas. After entering through the necklace, you enter the Machine Paradise, an extension of the necklace in his mind that produces the mental images needed for his psychic abilities to function properly. It's basically a factory with almost everything Otto could ever need, almost. Being an artificial construct, the Paradise needs to harvest psychic energy from outside to create these images, thus worker robots are periodically sent out into the Uncharted Wastes, a sketch-like landscape with no clear details but an abundance of psychic energy hotspots resulting from being unable to naturally focus it himself. It just so happens that Raz enters Otto's mind right as one of these expeditions is being organized, and after helping out with various functions, he gets drafted into it. How's that idea sound?

The character designs are unreal. Love those cool details

That's what is called foreshadowing. Sorry for the nit pick, but great catch, even I didn't catch on.

Otto is an enigma to me. I fully think if we get more of this series he will be more involved somehow

Amen to that.

For Sasha that same lamp appears in his memory vault. His mom had one before she died. Also it is implied somewhere that he worked in a Lamp factory. Haven't seen that myself but someone mentioned it. No verification though.

@@GamingUniversityUoG Yeah I confirm that it's in one of the vaults. Specifically when he is still a toddler.

@@GamingUniversityUoG If it really is the same design as the heptadome, it raises the question: "Is his father really his father?"

I think the similar design of the lamp and the heptadome might be just the idea that they come from the same time. That it was a trend and the heptadome was made when that design was still a trend.

@@headphoneheadache7667 True, assuming of course they are not exactly the same. It is just fun to think about

I believe Schafer confirmed that this was what he was they were implying, they just couldn't make it explicit in an E-rated game when Ford was explaining the history of the group to a sweet, traumatized 10-year-old.

It honestly makes me wonder what Psychonauts actually do out in the world. They're portrayed as secret agents, fighting international threats, but whenever they talk about the ethics of how they use their powers, they come off more like therapists. Is assisting people in overcoming their trauma really something that comes up often in their normal line of work?

@@screamingcactus1753 I think their more like the MIB but not as extreme about their secrecy, otherwise they wouldn't be handing out pamphlets about their junior activities, they come to help when someone royally screws up with their powers or when a psychic threatens the peace or has some diabolical plan.

I love her mind! Closest thing to how I imagine my own.

@@GamingUniversityUoG I picture my own mind as a large house, representing the way I compartmentalize things, but the layout of it is unstable, representing issues with remembering details. The structure would be tricky to draw a proper map of, but identifying *which* room you've entered would likely be easier, being colored differently in ways that make boundaries between spaces very clear. One room you enter would contain a few enablers, but no *traditional* enemies. It's in this room that you gain access to the Compartmentalization badge, which places a cube of mental energy around your target, allowing you to remove a problem enemy from the equation temporarily. Alternatively, you can compartmentalize around yourself in order to isolate enemies nearby. Effectively acting as a large shield you can use to contain and coral enemies you're trying to fight. As the mission goes on, you start returning to old rooms again, and begin to notice enemies that, if compartmentalized, could form a temporary staircase or bridge, allowing you to reach areas you couldn't reach previously.

@@GamingUniversityUoGI intentionally fragmented my own mine But not like ford More like a mosaic Each a piece separate yet also one Basically I turned portions of my own mind into a hive mind Which is due to my “first mistake” Basically I had really strong instincts like WAY to strong and I hurt people I cared about I scared myself and others my own subconscious was basically torturing me And what did this 4-5 year old child do? He cut out the “tumor” and didn’t sinch up the holes Causing me to lose proper connection to my own instincts as well as forcing me to eventually break my into 20 pieces but not like before while each piece was separate like a puppet on a string they were connected to us like a family with bonds closer than all others and a trust unbreakable every tear could be talked about every regret spoken without misunderstanding or lack of proper communication all understood the “perfect” family. And with my instincts making it 21 Some of the shards included Horniness (like the whole thing all sixual gratification and and desires including but not limited to the desire for children as well as the desire to meet people to hook up was shoved there so as to not warp the others that what was happening. He was number 14) Curious/the desire to know more/ duhreuicj (kinda but not really don’t have the words to explain it) Then we have the second great mistake Now before I say this I want you to understand that he is not the mistake and if you try to insinuate that I will be very unhappy with you Basically we tried to make a piece with all of the good traits and none of the bad and this foolish 12-13 year old nascent eldritch horror thought he was good enough to do so And he was but he wasn’t good enough fully and made one that has all the bad traits as well His existence is not his fault we forced him into existence through our greed and shoved the worst parts about who we are into his core and bears our crimes to this day He didn’t need to continue to exist we would have simply suffered some brain damage a short coma and lost the one good at everything we were all ok with him dying himself especially he didn’t want to exist if it meant torturing someone to do it but this few week old part of me refused and holds on every day despite all that pushes him down There wasn’t supposed to be 21 just 20 but we love him all the same just as much as we love each and every single part of me

It really is kind of sad. I wish it was more common to figure things out before a problem emerges.

We are after all, and have always been, only animals. And those who ignore or suppress their own nature will inevitably find it working against them. No wonder then that after all the years of beholding "Man above all else" as our supreme ideology we find ourselves unprepared when the lie finally faltered.

Ouch.

Nice ear.

I'm more focused on the actions taken to deal with the problem. Artificially changing the psyche of another believing that we know better how to deal with an issue rather than organically dealing with the trauma.

My interpretation of Ford and Raz's goal was to bury Maligula again using the same means that he uses the first time. Not actually dealing with the complex. The real Lucy emerging in the final battle and releasing the complex is properly dealing with it. My opinion though.

@@GamingUniversityUoG Which could only be done by weakening the the complex to the point where Lucy could take control of it.

By fake I mean how she’s not the person she thinks she is, not how she’s not Raz’s grandma.

Haha yeah next one is going to be a play ground. Cassie's mind has so much to go over it is ridiculous

It's a lot of prep and research sadly. Especially with how sensitive the topic is for Bob in particular.

@@GamingUniversityUoG I would want nothing less than for these to be researched thoroughly.

Sounds like lack of caution and not realizing the potential danger really are the same thing just using different words. Negligence can fully be accidental. Absolutely no there was no one to warn them of the dangers. But after a while we should be able to anticipate problems before they arise. Not do anything recklessly until we get burned. I feel this whole situation was a learning experience for the Psychonauts which helped shape their mission statement moving forward.

I'll see what I can do. Most of it will be pure speculation since we really don't have a lot to work on in terms of character work

​@@GamingUniversityUoGBy the way, can you talk about the shadow selves in the Persona series?

​@@GamingUniversityUoGand games you plan to cover?

I do plan to work on Persona someday. But not for a bit. If you want some now I'd check out Generally Break on YT. He is a friend who does Persona content.

I love it too!

Yo dude!

@@GamingUniversityUoG I was a little late to this vid BUT I WAS SLEEPING

Time to do a replay of the next two worlds so I can get prepped

I personally went with Cassie. Started writing it this weekend. Research is largely done too. This one will be Psiking levels of big.

​@@GamingUniversityUoG I can recall why...it's like 3 different sections or so and a boss battle...it's kinda big like Hector/black velvet mind imo

Haha thanks!

@@GamingUniversityUoG On this front, do you think we could theoretically get discussions about Persona dungeons? I think there's a lot of ground that can be covered with this, especially with Persona 4 and 5, (and their spinoffs to varying degrees).

Yeah i think it mostly comes downt o consuming a lot of literature. Seeing patterns in storytelling and trying to make them fit into a logical consistency. It becomes easier to analyze when you know care was put into the work of fiction. Knowing that the writer and designer put intention into everything they do. So trying to categorize if something is meaningless, meaningful, or potentially meaningful. More data comes in it becomes easier to categorize details into those 3 boxes

Otto seems the biggest concern for me too. I mostly think this experience was meant to show the dangers of intentionally forcing change on another's mind. People in fragile states of mind can be impressionable. Something we have to keep in mind. But yeah I've seen enough stories in science of things that by today's standards we would consider horrifying.

⁠@@GamingUniversityUoGI imagine Otto was likely one of the people behind the fundamentals the Psychonauts alongside Cassie, Compton, Bob, Ford (before shattering) and/or Truman. Even the comments you’re referring to are him intending to selling his invention as a means to _self_ modify, likening it to plastic surgery Still ethically dubious but I assume the intent is to have someone modify your brain according to _your own_ specifications

One could argue that they have already paid in their own ways. I think this invites a conversation about nature of Justice in a more abstract sense.

You got it.

I could have misinterpreted that scene. But it felt like they were dropping Maligula back into the same hole that Ford put it in back into the day. Doing the same thing. I may has read it wrong though.

I just had to lol. Hard to have this kind of subject without playing that clip.

Technically got 5 videos left. 6 if I try to go for the interns and/or Otto. But I'm not sure in those

I believe it is confirmed that the games take place in the 90s. I forgot where there was a timeline issue. I'm not sure if I mentioned it or not in the history of whispering rock video.

@@GamingUniversityUoG I’ll check back at that video to see but yeah there is a weird time discrepancy.

I can get behind it, but The Dean is only human , just like the both of us

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