@@CowMaster9001 I wouldn't interpret it that way. I think the actions Cooper take are transmitted via Gravity or something like that and it is the love, these actions are driven by that then transpires.
There is a really shifty anime that I watched some years back called ‘Lilly cat’ I think. It’s pretty much just a Alien ripoff; but there is one scene that hit me between the eyes and stunned me. The Captain the ship talks for a moment about his time flying in space. How he’d been doing it for nearly 300 years earth time because of the time dilation. After his first trip his wife had died, and his son had grown older than him. Then his next trip his son had died, but after that he didn’t have any reason to come back. The show was bad, but that moment was really neat. We never really have any media that shows the sacrifice of what life among the stars would really mean for humans.
That does sound like a really interesting scene. The film _Interstellar_ comes to mind in terms of time relativity. *[spoiler warning, just in case]* In one scene, the Matthew McConaughey character returns to his spacecraft from a failed mission and has to watch 20 years flash by in the form of video logs from his children as they grow up and eventually give up hope of him ever returning.
Aliens had something similar in a deleted scene; it wasn't about time dilation though, but about Ripley having been in criostasis for some 80 years and finding out that her daughter grew old and died in that time. It was very heavy, but also a pretty important piece of the puzzle to contextualize her character for the rest of the movie. If this anime was an Alien ripoff, they may even have taken inspiration from that specific scene.
LilyC.A.T. is extremely bad but also kind of awesome? Nobody expected it to be preserved so it just kind of revels in its own glorious trash pile of tropes and gore.
Voices of a Distant Star also deals with this. The main character can only communicate via text to her friend on Earth but as she gets further and further away it takes anywhere from days to years for them to pass along a single message.
This is quite profound. But I sometimes feel that way about our lives on Earth too. We only live like 75 years, we often lose friends and family, some die, some simply go away and you lose touch. Even if we had immortality we'd still only be able to experience an infinitely small slice of humanity. So life really, is just about enjoying the moment, the present, and the space around you, what is close, the people and things that are in proximity.
Wow. Just, wow. Feels way ahead of her time, then again, the 70s & 80s were the kings of modern folk songs and were right around that spacefaring lust. I love, love, LOVE how they incorporated the science. It's not stuff to be ignored for the fantasy of it all, it's the reality, it's the focus. Moving compared to others makes your time slower than theirs', space travel is horrifyingly tough even in the sci-fi future, and you can't go past the speed of light or you start a bunch of paradoxes including reverse time-travel.. But you damn well wish you could. You wrecked your life not knowing about relativity and signing on for that couple months' run.
This was one of the first filk songs I ever heard. A haunting, beautiful one at that. Sadly, space travel has to take this into account. How I wish hyperdrives and FTL were real.
Lovely - and dreadfully sad. Thank you - it's many decades on now, and half a world away, but I hear the sounds of filk sessions in cheap hotels. Cheap beer and cheaper food, but memories of gold.
Now the big ships fly to a hundred suns, by pushing the speed of light And they want good men for the deep space runs, pushing the speed of light And the pay is good, and you're young and strong, And you tell yourself that it won't be long So you sign on board, hear the drive's deep song, pushing the speed of light Pushing the speed of light And you've left behind you the world of men With no way in space to go home again When you're pushing the speed of light Pushing the speed of light Now it's two months out and it's two months back, when you're pushing the speed of light Twenty years on your homeworld's track, pushing the speed of light And your friends are gone and your lovers too And there's damn-all left that you can do And you try to lie, but you know it's true, pushing the speed of light Pushing the speed of light So you sign back on for another run of pushing the speed of light And you swear to God that your pushing's done, pushing the speed of light But that one run turns into four or five And your heart beats time to the humming drive And there's nothing left keeps you alive, but pushing the speed of light Pushing the speed of light Now you've spread your seed with the star drive's flame, by pushing the speed of light Left sons behind you to carry your name, pushing the speed of light And you watch them age, and you watch them die, As you race the light-wind across the sky And the gods are silent when you ask them, Why? Pushing the speed of light Pushing the speed of light Now, the speed of c is a wall, they say, when you're pushing the speed of light That cuts you off from yesterday, pushing the speed of light But you know someday you're gonna win that race And fly back the years to your starting space And you'll stay awhile 'fore you're back in space, pushing the speed of light Pushing the speed of light And you've left behind you the world of men With no way in Hell to go home again When you're pushing the speed of light Pushing the speed of light
"And fly back the years to your starting space" every trip you spend a lifetime before it ends say 2 months later, do you go mad, do you learn skills or do you go again & again
This is such a beautiful, tragic song. Imagine being one of those lonely stargazers, stuck in space with no way home so all you can do is go forward. Everyone you knew and loved is gone, and you’re burning away years like calories as you drive. And you can’t help but weep as you imagine what could have been, and why is it like this? And the only answer you receive from the gods is silence.
"The pay is good" To lose 20 years worth of opportunities and history, the pay better be INSANE. You'd legit have to be making enough to retire in 1 or 2 runs for the vast majority of qualified workers to even consider it.
Or people with no more attachment to their current lives, like someone who lost everything or someone who never had anything. Why care about staying in space only 2 months for 20 years to pass if you never cared about anything.
@@satanhell_lord it's not just about caring, think about how much the world can change in those 20 years. Also "there's damn-all left that you can do" because all your skills are now obsolete.
Because the explorers among of us will have "now way to go home again", when they're pushing the speed of light. And there's nothing left that they can do.
Because this is a really awesome song! Both the writing and the performance. Avoid listening to it more than twice unless you are ready to get addicted.
@@martinpaulsen1592 Maybe not, but ask a sailor what they miss when they're at sea, how much life goes on without them, how many birthdays and firsts they miss, moments they can never live for themselves. They live their lives six months at a time, seeing their lives ar home change each time they return. For them, they might as well be pushin' the speed of light.
I actually ran the numbers. If the drive is inertialess (acceleration is instantaneous) then the necessary velocity for 4 months to equate to 20 years on the home world is 299955300 m/s, or 99.986% of the speed of light. Pushin' it indeed. If not, I don't know, because that would involve complicated integration which I have neither the time nor the inclination to do right now. If the drive is not inertialess, the need for gravity control or inertial dampeners is obvious: the necessary acceleration to reach the given speed only as a MAXIMUM speed - so the actual acceleration needed would be much higher - would be 57.03 meters per second per second, or about 5.8g the entire way. NASA's tests have shown that humans cannot function under accelerations of 6g for more than about half an hour, let alone for weeks on end. However, it occurs to me rereading this that flotation tanks could make those forces survivable.
what would the numbers be if the craft in question used self-generated inertia, and would thus require comparatively little, if any 'traditional' fuel (either propellant or fuel for electricity generation) ?
possibly no need for inertial dampeners if you got an alcubierre drive. They could be physically pushing space around a bubble approaching the speed of light while locally experiencing zero or nearly zero acceleration within the bubble
+Zoie3x8 'Self-generated inertia' would be the second case that he mentioned. A reactionless drive would still require the same average acceleration figures as a delta-v drive, the only difference being that for a delta-v drive, acceleration would be slower at the start of a journey and faster at the end as propellant is lost and the total mass of the vehicle decreases. The average would remain the same, though. Sorry to necro but I love this song and saw this comment just now.
It's like a Woody Guthrie song subject but instead of being about miners, it's about space miners! It's cool to hear a minstrel ballad about disenfranchised space travelers. The juxtaposition gives a far out sci-fi subject a very familiar and human feel to it. Those are some heavy lyrics.
You would like a lot of the songs from Bill Roper's album, 'The Grim Roper" then. 'Space is Dark' is the song that jumps to mind, as it has a similar subject to this one, but 'disenfranchised space travelers' makes me think of him immediately.
"but you know some day you're gonna win that race/and fly back the years to your starting days/and you'll stay awhile 'fore you're back in space, pushing the speed of light." This line hits me harder, for some reason. That your wild fool's hope isn't an escape, it isn't living out your days on your Homeworld hoping to never push C again. The distant, mad hope you cling to is that you'd savor the days before you're "back" to burning away every year you could've lived, and that you'll still sign on, because even now escape is unthinkable.
I'd interpret that differently; namely, that you're pushing C in the wild fools hope that you'll last long enough for a solution, or to get back home by coming around the other side. But what would you do, when you spent so long away from home? You don't ever want to see it change like you missed on your first trip, you want to see it again the same way. So you would still go back to pushing C at the point you originally left, making another long trip around the sea of time until you can get back home. And again. As long as it takes.
@@Slash0mega In the rules of causality associated with Einsteinian Relativity, "winning the race" against light (that is, traveling at a velocity greater than c) *is* time travel, albeit a limited form of it. It's a fairly common trope in SF to generalize or remove the limits of the time travel inherent in superluminal travel. This is even mentioned in the first half of that verse: "Well, the speed of 'c' is a wall, they say, / When you're pushing the speed of light, / That cuts you off from Yesterday; / Pushing the speed of light." Get past that wall, go faster than light, and you can go back in time.
This is quite profound. But I sometimes feel that way about our lives on Earth too. We only live like 75 years, we often lose friends and family, some die, some simply go away and you lose touch. Even if we had immortality we'd still only be able to experience an infinitely small slice of humanity. So life really, is just about enjoying the moment, the present, and the space around you, what is close, the people and things that are in proximity.
This hits a little too close to home in an odd sort of way. One day, you start a project that you should be able to complete in a few months. Next thing you know, it's the distant future date of 2023; the sun still rises in the east, man has yet to set foot on Mars, and you've accomplished almost nothing but minor career improvements in the past 8 years. You don't feel like you've aged a day, but everyone and everything around you shows evidence of change. Months fly by in a matter of days, and the end of the next 20 years is waiting at the doorstep.... .....I'm gonna finish that project. And to hell with the overtime..
The ghost ships of interspace and beyond. Eternally to travel and never to return home, ageless till they see the end of time itself across the passing sparks of light past their ship's windows. Haunting the highways of time and reality as their long-faded descendants talk tales as they race their own interstellar pursuits; technology leaving behind these faded hollow men and women for faster and safer ways of travel, yet they will still be there... Still pushing the speed of light.
But only from the frame of those left behind. The traveller finds that the distance they must cover has been shrunken by the same 'gamma' factor. They make the journey faster (in their frame) than they ought to.
I always come back to this song because it's so beautiful and heartbreaking. I only wish it were in better quality, but nonetheless I am glad you put this up, otherwise I likely would have never heard it.
Found somewhere on the comments, just a few comments below in fact, a reference to animé movie Lily.C.A.T., telling it spoke of that spacers' time dilation curse. It also said the movie was terrible. It's on RU-vid. Just saw it, to me it's not terrible, but quite sensible, and time dilation is a psychological component of the story and ambience...
One of the reasons I love the setting of the Lancer ttrpg is that it appreciates and integrates time dilation into the culture and subjective experiences of its characters
This is the most beautiful thing I've ever heard, aside from The Phoenix. The lyrics are reminiscent of Eric Brown's Engineman universe, though I'm pretty sure this tape predates those books by well over a decade.
Only a fool would believe the second age of piracy would be silent. The Song will resonate through every hall of every ship, to the tune of the humming engines as it did a thousand years ago.
now the big ships fly to a hundred suns by pushin' the speed of light and they want good men for the deep space runs pushin' the speed of light and the pay is good and you're young and strong and you tell yourself that it won't be long so you sign on board, hear the drive's deep song pushin' the speed of light pushin' the speed of light and you've left behind the world of men with no way in space to go home again when you're pushin' the speed of light pushin' the speed of light
This hurts, so damn much. The song is a masterful gut punch of both fiction and reality. Think about it. This kind of disconnect happens in real life. With sailors making long hauls across the ocean. And truckers driving halfway across a country or maybe even through several countries on a weekly basis. And soldiers sent off to war only to end up broken and then thrown into a world far beyond the one the left. The true terror of this song isn’t in the fiction of it. It’s the reality
Does anyone else think this is incredibly fertile ground for some good old sci-fi social commentary? Like, spacing companies have to do this on purpose. Round up young and impressionable folks, send them on a near-C voyage, and when they come back to find there's nothing left for them, they've nowhere else to go but back up. You've trapped them into your workforce basically for the rest of their lives. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if some future billionaire pulls exactly this stunt.
Take a look at Joe Haldeman's "The Forever War", where essentially this happens to Earth's soldiers. They come home at the end of their tour of duty to find the world radically different from the one they left thanks to time-dilation, so they sign up for another tour because the military is an "island" of their own time where they feel at home.
Doing some rough back of the napkin math it seems that the sailor in the song is doing around 60% the speed of light. Impressive and scary for how much life can be missed going that fast. The Math: C = Speed of light V = Velocity Gama = 1 / sqrt(1 - (v^2 / c^2) 1/3 = 20 / Gama 1/3 = 20 / (1 / sqrt(1 - (v^2 / c^2))) 1 / 3 * (1 / sqrt(1 - (v^2 / c^2))) = 20 sqrt(1 - (v^2 / c^2)) / 3 = 20 sqrt(1 - (v^2 / c^2)) = 3 * 20 60^2 = 1 - (v^2 / c^2) 3600 - 1 = -(v^2 / c^2) 3599 * -c^2 = v^2 sqrt(3599 * -c^2) = v v / c ~= 60%
Now the speed of c is a wall they, say , when you're pushing the speed of light, that cuts you off from a yesterday[...] And from having imaginary mass, and other weird stuff, you know.
now its two months out and its two months back when you're pushin' the speed of light twenty years on your homeworld's track pushin' the speed of light and your friends are gone and your lovers too and if they've all left then you can too and you try to lie but you know it's true pushin' the speed of light pushin' the speed of light
(4) now you spread your seed with the star drive's flame by pushin' the speed of light left sons behind you to carry your name pushin' the speed of light and you watch them age and you watch them die as you race the light, wing across the sky and the gods are silent when you ask them why pushin' the speed of light pushin' the speed of light
When I first heard this utterly exquisite Space Shanty, I misinterpreted the lyrics as: "Left 𝙎𝙪𝙣𝙨 behind you to carry your name," Which in the context of interstellar exploration & extreme, relativistic time-dealation, seemed perfectly understandable. It was only later after repeat listening that the true, stark, heart-breaking significance of the song finally struck me in all its depth.
***** Who knows? Maybe we'll find out how to produce negative energy. Proxima and back in about a month, both ship and Earth time. No need to push it when you can break it.
Yeah, but there are other variables and issues created too.. And who's to say time dilation doesn't add more, that we cannot yet even percieve, much less calculate or anticipate.. I am all for scientific knowledge & advancement generally.. But not for arrogantly or stupidly screwing around with, or assuming things we don't yet understand very well.. Little by little Real learning doesn't come in leaps & bounds..it comes in understanding consequences.. From that, we then GROW in leaps & bounds..and our knowledge rises copacetic to our experiences..this becomes an 'OODA loop' mindset, and thus detirmines our character choices. Concepts like slipspace travel, time compression or dilation, or even 'stargate' style wormholes in an inter-connected dimensional tree of multiple pre-arranged travel destinations.. Are all still just pure sci-fi fantasy for now. Time will tell..
(5) now the speed of C is a wall, they say, when you're pushin' the speed of light that cuts you off from yesterday pushin' the speed of light but you know some day you're gonna win that race and fly back the years to your starting space and you'll stay a while 'fore you're back to space pushin' the speed of light pushin' the speed of light and you've left behind you the world of men with no way in hell to go home again, when you're pushin' the speed of light pushin' the speed of light
So how does pay and compensation work in this scenario, are you paid hourly/monthly based on your relative time or based on time as experienced at your home of record? Also what about taxes!? I can't even imagine the headache this would cause while trying to file your tax returns. Is this a union position? Would be vested in the International Maritime Space Workers (IMSW) union after 5 earth years or spacecraft relative years? So many unanswered questions in this song.
Someone did a takeoff of this song called Pushing the Speed of Sound covering the X-1 to the Space Shuttle programs. I know it is somewhere in my collection but can't find it. Anyone know who or what Filk tape it was published on?
@@elig9401 I have his King of Filk tape but Pushing the Speed of Sound is not listed on the label or the insert. Unfortunately I do not currently have a working player.
I would like to point out: How much did our Tech evolve in the last 20 Years? Do two pushes (if you are lucky) and you need a year of schooling to be allowed a third push. Because as long as there is money to be made humankind will be inventive and newer ships will have better or cheaper tech, not the kind you have experience in. That is on top of the disconnection of the time flow the pushers have, always coming back to a world they dont know anymore.
If the ships are well enough constructed it'd probably make sense to reuse them for several flights instead of scrapping them after a single one, so there'd probably be a mix of modern and century old vessels flying. In real life we're still flying B52s...
This song is even sadder if you imagine obsolete ships are still profitable for whatever god kings rule the galaxy; because they must make the rum again.
(3) so you sign back on for another run of pushin' the speed of light and you swear to god that your pushin's done pushin' the speed of light but then one run turns into four or five and your heart beats time to the hummin' drive and there's nothin' left keeps you alive but pushin' the speed of light pushin' the speed of light
Been reading Redemption Ark, Revelation Space universe, where Lighthuggers travel at a hair below the speed of light. One character has spent so long travelling he's over 400 years old due to time dilation
I feel like this song works for jet pilots too, only ots the sound barrier. Think, a lot of em leave behind family's, and quite a few never come home. Lots sign on for more tours
So I was just listening to this song for the nth time and I wondered how the math works out given the numbers in the song. Four month round trip while twenty years passes for the outside observer works out to 99.986% the speed of light. Pushing is right. And ten light years one way is a drop in the bucket when it comes to astronomical distances. The song says the ships fly to a hundred suns, which means they're not centered on Earth. There are only thirty stars within ten light years of Earth. What ever homeworld they're working out of must be significantly closer to the center of the galaxy where the average distance between stars gets shorter.
It is theoretically impossible to exceed light speed, but we have only measured light speed using reflection, even if relativity does always get us, we can have generation ships, move entire communities, it's necessary anyways to seed life on other plannets
@@oz_jones we already have a design to do it the only problem is the power draw of the engine requires the entire craft to be built in space so we can make it large enough
+fuzznose The guitar is played by Leslie Fish--she keeps her 12-string guitar, "Monster", tuned either a half-step or a whole-step lower than usual. (I used to know which, but I forget.) But it may also be capoed up here for the singers. Regardless of what "absolute" key this is in, she's PLAYING chords in the key of A minor.
But why would he wanna break c? YES it would probably make him able to travel back in time. BUT it would only himself since only he is traveling faster than light. So he himself would get younger. He wouldn't be able to turn back time for anything that is not in the ship itself. He wouldn't really be able to go back or would he? Would love if someone could clarify that. :)
***** He's not trying to break c. It can't be done. He's just going so close to c that he's losing the world he left behind as it is aging faster than he is.
+BloggingLP He absolutely wouldn't get younger. From his perspective he always travels through time at a constant rate. As he approaches c the universe appears to speed up around him (thus two years passing on Earth in his two month run). If he could break c he could potentially go back in time (to see those lovers and friends mayhaps?). However, if he's trying to get there by accelerating he's got two major problems 1. The energy required to accelerate increases, c is the point at which that energy becomes infinite. 2. As you approach c the universe also contracts in your direction of motion. At c the entire universe is in the same plane as you, meaning that if you are headed in the direction of anything at all, you immediately collide with it, else you're thrown deep (infinitely?) into space. Then if he ever manages to turn around the time dilation would almost certainly cause him to meet the end of the universe before he could get going into the past.
+BloggingLP He's not "trying" to do anything. That's the point, really. The song isn't meant to be taken literally towards the end - he's not stupid, he's just lost. He's literally lost everything, and doing what he does - making C-fractional cargo runs, one after another - is him living life by never looking behind him at everything he's lost. Always taking another step forward, because... because it's all he can do, and because tomorrow can't be worse than what he has today, basically.
Anyone know which album this is on? I tried searching the website in the description and couldn't find it. I'd love to buy this song (or possibly a whole album)!
These old filk tapes are like gold dust now. And some are very unlikely to ever get re-released, for various practical and legal reasons. Thank God at least *some* of this stuff can be shared online now, and enjoyed by a bigger audience than ever dreamed of by the folks producing their runs of 100 or (if you were feeling very confident!) 200 tapes...
