If you have recently purchased, or are thinking about purchasing, an Aloris or other brand QCTP, you really should watch this video. It may help you to make smarter purchases based on your work and budget.
Another great vid, Joe. I have a 15" Clausing with the CA QCTP. Years of scouring scrap bins and scrap carbide containers yielded quite an assortment of tooling and inserts. Most are based on using the unused corners. Big companies are fairly wasteful with these. Well worth the trouble. Now days carbide has a good scrap price and used inserts are traded at tool crib for new ones with the discards deposited in locked containers. I still had a lot of years to scrounge. Being on a budget I make my own holders for the leftover corners, especially milling cutters. I have boxes on boxes of brazed on carbide tools. Right place at right time. Not much use in an big NC shop any more. Life savers in a home shop, especially since I used so much of it starting out. You showed one I've never seen. The deep holder. I could use one like that. Sounds like my next project. Lol. Good stuff Bro 👍. I really enjoy your vids. Great to see guys like you putting the knowledge out there for free and not looking down on or belittling any one! 😎🇺🇸
That 15" with the 'C' size block is a great combo. Ran a setup like that for many years. Moved into a 18-140 gap bed mazak. What a beast. Glad the material helps. I try to keep it real.
Thank you very much Joe for using our products and providing such a detailed description. We invite you to visit us again and discover new products that we have available for you to continue developing new ideas.
One hint on qc tooling blocks is to buy a bunch of plastic balls with a threaded insert the same as the height adjustment stud thread. Its a lot more friendly to lift a round plastic ball than a threaded stud. Especially 50 times a day!
Man, your shop gems are things we need to start doing in our shop. I'm not sure how well they would work in swiss machines, but that's a good way to save a boatload on carbide.
Hi Joe . A DCBN tool holder will use the unused corners of that insert as well . It will give you limited facing & makes a good roughing tool . Cheers.
I have BXA 250-201 and 250-202. I had already installed some cutting tools and was unable to see the groove in the 202. Thanks to you, I now know the difference. Good source for information for this graduate engineer finally learning how to operate machines and something about the ART involved.
Joe , I even make my own tool holders to utilize every cutting edge ,great video.thanks for taking the time to explain how the little tricks go a long way as far as getting your money's worth , have a great weekend
@@metalshopwithtroy5755 hi Troy ,if I have it A2 tool steel , but to perfectly honest whatever I have in higher carbon , but I surface grind everything nice & flat, once it's made I harden ,over the years it's really saved on buying, have a great weekend
I was not aware that Aloris had so many options in their catalog!! You have some really interesting ones there Joe. Thanks so much for sharing and take care!!
Thanks for the interesting information on other types of holders available. Another good point to see you've got your tool holders stored on a rack at the back of your lathe and not directly behind the chuck, in the muck. Nice one Joe.
Most interesting information on QCTP options! There are a multitude of possible tool options I did not know about! Thanks for sharing and keep up your great work!
as the new owner of a '56 Myford Super 7 in (really good condition), i am happy to be a new subsubscriber, you have given me more good information in the 5 videos i have watched so far, than in any of the dozens of others i've waded through. thx joe
@@joepie221 as a canadian cousin, i also appreciated your psa. we hear grim things up here about things down there, nice to know somebody is actually paying attention. looking forward to making swarf
Great Video I never thought about adding a block under the tool holder to get the tool high enough to adjust on center Brilliant!! I milled out the bottom of the tool holder but barely had enough left for rigidity Thanks for great ideas
great video but a suggestion- explain the difference in the sizes of tool posts. you are running a bxa and a lot of your tool adjustments are low. instead of your block you talked about maybe originally tooling a cxa would have been better. i never knew what those letters meant till i researched buying one for my little lathe. also for a newbie it might help someone get the right stuff the first time. and explaining a button from a wedge.
Good stuff Joe! #35 and #53 are two of my favorites but only because my toolpost is aligned and locked on a solid block instead of the compound., ATB, Robin
I almost bought that exact knurling tool. I wound up with a Eagle Rock clamp knurler, which works pretty well but it's really difficult to change the knurls. Those boring holders only come in two sizes for a particular QCTP size. They come with split bushings. I made a whole bunch of rigid bushings for small boring bars, and bought one pass through sleeve bushing for a 5/8" boring bar. The pass through sleeve allows the set screws from the holder to pass through the bushing and go directly against the flat on the top of the bar, making it a whole lot easier to line everything up.
On the CCMT inserts you can purchase additional tool holders that are design too use those corners not typically used on that insert. The holders are SCSCR, SCBCR, and SCKCR. Micro 100 is one of the few US companies that make those holder, however there are a lot of import companies that make them. Thanks for the time and effort you put into making your video series, Mark
Nice selection you have. That shell mill was on my shopping list before they got out of the machining biz at work. Too bad I had a few pounds of inserts to feed it. Thanks for the video Joe.
For my boring bar holder I made a bar with a dovetail mount on the end to suit my dial indicators. Great for awkward reaching that mag bases struggle with. It gets more use as that than as a boring bar holder
Great video and tips! I am also a long time user of tpg:s , find them flexible for manual work. I can usually buy them real cheap around here. I grew up with the Swedish "Bergstrom" toolposts , similar concept to Aloris. I now like the multifix system much better, use the B size on my lathe. Seems like the setup with the splines is more rigid and repeats better for me. The main disadvantage is the size and weight of the individual toolholders when handling them. The ability to quickly change the tool angle in 9 deg increments is nice. I simply dont get why they divided 90 deg into 10 parts instead of 12 divisions though.
Joe I appreciate what you did yes you did give me some pointers and improved the scope of my options at the same time. very good video production and presentation too. I also noticed that you have skinnied your kennametal tool bars too. I think i need to have another go at the one i discussed with you. Thanks alot Joe sincerely Troy Guyette
Regarding tool height, I have the opposite problem you have. My tools won't go LOW enough on my Maximat 11. (Maximat 11 carriage was designed to serve as milling table in addition to lathe toolpost. That makes it a little higher, but permits coarse adjustment of tool post, which is most useful for large work!) I have taken tool holders & milled some off the BOTTOM (versus your adding spacer plate under the post to raise it) so I can get the tool "down to" center. I am using AXA1 system, which is the smallest offered. Those parting blocks are way too high on my lathe. I note that you have machined a lot of your holders (evidenced by milling marks on hardened steel & lack of bluing). It would be most informative for you to make a video about this. I am sure each one has a long & interesting story behind it!
Great tips, one of those tool racks is now on my build list. I use the other corners of cubic inserts, 15 degree turning and boring tools work well for stock removal and it is easy to find tools with this angle that use the other edge. You gained a subscriber.
I made a hanging tool rack for mine, just a piece of U shaped channel, depending on how many tools you have, about 2 ft is good, well screwed into the wall behind the lathe (but a little down-bed from the chuck)
Joe your teaching is great. You should of been a shop teacher I lean so much off your video's. I'am just a hobbest who likes to turn, mill and brack stuff mostly endmills. I never even seen BXA-16 before , but I tell just looking at them. There not cheep like me. Lol but they are very cool. I love the leaning part of a Machinist but I don,t like how much it,s costing me. I was really intimidated about cutting threads a little hands on and know big deal. I would think gear cutting is the same. Nothing I do is 100 % but good a nuff for me. Well anyhow keep up the awsome work. Thanks.
As usual, well explained. For anyone just getting into using carbide (particularly as a hobby user), I definitely would recommend selecting a small number of insert shape - may not get away with just one, but having ALL the different shapes is definitely not necessary, and getting several tool holders for the same insert, and not get one of each of the different shape inserts. That way, you don't have to buy 3-4 different shapes and 3-4 different grades (chip breaker styles, etc) for different materials, different corner radius, etc. This is similar to the idea of re-using inserts for milling when they are gone on the lathe. (I'm rather rubbish at following my own advice, so I have pretty much all of the xNMG insert shapes in my collection by now and a left and right, a few different boring bars and one "use the odd corners of CNMG inserts for chamfering"). I could definitely do with a lesson in grinding HSS tools from square/rectangular tool blanks.
@@joepie221 Yes, absolutely. Which is exactly why my advice is to find one "shape" that works for multiple tools and more than one use (the TNMG, WNMG and CNMG are good, VNMG and DNMG less good, for example - there are also CCMT, TCMT, etc that are often good in a hobby machine). It's also better on a larger lathe, not one of those little ones. At least then your rather expensive box of ten works for several different cuts, rather than just the one type of cutting... :) I have found that I can find Sandvik inserts from Amazon for like $30 per pack of 10 - not all the time, and not all combinations of shapes, sizes, chip breaker, etc. It's no point, to me at least, in buying the "coarse" or "roughing" tooling, because my lathe can not take 2.5mm (100 thou) depth of cut with a feed of 0.5mm (20 thou) at anything like the sfm required. So finishing inserts, maybe "medium cut" ones at a push. There's also good sources on Ebay, for "opened, but unused" or "unused, unopened" packs. Not for everyone, that's for sure. But it also means you can get on with the lathe-work, rather than trying to make the right shape on a HSS toolbit. At least you then know it is JUST a matter of finding the right combination of feed and speed, rather than having to figure out "did I grind this the wrong angle" as well... :) Also, I found that the cheap ones on Ebay, Amazon that takes 3 weeks to arrive from China are, as a rule, worth less than you pay for them. They break if you look at them the wrong way, never mind making rookie mistakes of taking a heavier cut or not stopping soon enough on a shoulder (yeah, not a perfect lathe operator, still learning). Much better to get Sandvik, Kennametal, Iscar and the likes. Yes, you pay 2-5 times as much, but they last at least 10 times longer.
Nice video Joe, great tips, lots of ideas for my own shop and future projects for my channel. I have just bought some 01 to make some QCTP holders, I was going to go standard slot, but I will hold some mareial back for some specials based on what you have shown here, thanks. Keep em coming. Cheers, Jon
Good show. Quick change tool holders offer a huge variety of set up options. There is no doubt they are the way to go for many, especially hobby machinists. I have both piston and wedge style posts for both of my lathes. Wedge has won out, but the piston ones make a backup. I must admit however, it took a long time for me to warm up to the QC way. For production work, a high quality multi-detent four way has many advantages. When the four way can move in fixed steps, the time to “set” each tool becomes moot because it is so much faster to spin the holder. One cutting edge can do a variety of cuts because you can alter the angle it makes by using the detents. Perhaps DROs have messed with this approach. I don’t know. The lathes I did production work on all had Trav-A-dials. I know dating myself here.
Joe Pieczynski I have one that has seen better days. Got it used and free from a Baker Hughes shop. Have not tried to resurrect it. I got good at timing the rotation of the dial, not sure if it is possible to time the flashing numbers of a DRO. Being old school with emphasis on old, I have yet to decide if I really need a DRO. If one for lathes came with a digital display that mimicked the dial I would be more interested.
Me gusta su video ya que presenta nueva ideas y sugerencia que es muy interesante. No hablo muy bien el ingles pero trato de entender y a la vez es muy importante para mi.
Aloris also makes a toolholder that is able to take 3/4 square tools: There is a letter "S" after the toolholder number. I have a set of wonderful Ingersol toolholders, but they require the S Aloris toolholder, being 3/4" square.
Joe it seems like your Colchester might have paired up better with the next sized QC tool post. Did you choose the smaller post for the type of work you do, perhaps it was a carryover from a previous lathe or simply for the economics of the smaller series? The TPG inserts are fantastic for light to medium turning but work out being expensive in the hands of a less skilled operator working in steel. Double sided inserts are much cheaper to run, stronger and in my experience are the best insert style for general working shop usage. For the newbies or those transitioning from HSS your description of the double sided inserts as being "negative rake" could cause confusion. A negative SEAT rake does not necessarily mean negative cutting geometry and as you know the cutting geometry is what really matters. In fact I can see a good excuse to make a video explaining the ISO naming convention for various insert shapes and sizes.
Thanks for your great videos I learn so much each time. I am a hobby machinist in the UK with a midsize Chinese import lathe and would like to upgrade to QCTP. Any comments on the merits/faults of the different types of post would be greatly appreciated. There seam to be 3 different types available the wedge type similar to the Aloris, a piston type, and cam type that pulls the tool holder back against a register and locks against the height adjusting screw.
Chris Waddell Aloris Type has the advantage that you might be able to make your own holders. On the other hand I am quite happy with my Multifix from Pewetools in AS size for my Chinese Bernardo 750. As always: with time the price Fades but the joy of good quality stays.
I got a bunch of 1.5" square Kennametal tools in an auction, I planned on milling them down to fit my .750 tool holders. Then I thought why not cut out the middle man and just cut a dovetail to fit the post right in the tools? So I did and they work fantastic, they are extremely rigid.
Those toolholders that directly hold the inserts actually make a difference in rigidity for bench lathes. I can make cuts with them that used to chatter badly on my little 618 Atlas.
When I got my new-to-me EMCO Maier V10P lathe in 1991, I quickly became sick and tired of fooling around with shims to get the tools to centre height. At that time I couldn't justify a commercial quick change tool post; thus I made my own. I used 1/4-20-UNC socket head cap screws for the tool clamps, but quickly tired of these because the socket would fill with swarf that sometimes refused to come out. At a flea marked one vendor had a small tin can full of 1/4-20-UNC square head set screws. I offered 1/2 the asking price and we haggled a little. Still, the price was quite low. The surprising thing about these screws was their hardness. They appear to be case hardened and will mark a high speed steel blank. Further, the dimension of the square head was also 1/4" across the flats; this was handy because i could use a 1/4" socket extension rod for the wrench. OH yes, these were cup point screws, and I ground off the sharp edge of the cup. I still have, and use, that tool post today. I black oxide finished the post and the 30 tool holders, and that finish is beginning to wear off now.
@@joepie221 The screws I have do not have a flange between the thread and the square head. I conclude that the screws were either machined from 1/4" A/F square stock or, the round stock had the end upset to form the square. I lean towards the latter because the surface finish on the square sides is not as good as I would expect on square drawn/rolled steel.
This is good info for those that use this type tooling,unfortunatelI I'm stuck in the dark ages with high speed steel,left,right and straight tool holders using lantern style tool post,but I don't mind,it gets the job.😂
Last place I worked they were always throwing out those inserts with 4 good edges on them even though they had holders to use them. I'd always get the other holder and collect several inserts from the scrap bin to do heavy roughing.
I've seen where people have milled a dovetail directly into the insert holder itself, negating the need to spend additional money on more QCTP holders. Never used it myself, but seems like a nifty trick
I bought 5 of the Chinese knock-off Aloris AXA size holders on Ebay. Not bad, replaced the junk set screws with Unbrako. But not a single one had a height adjustment stud (M10) that was perfectly square.
I wish I could afford those Kennametal tools, and that they fit my Lathe... Good tip about using the 'unused' corners of an insert in a milling tool or a different holder in the lathe. Not that I have any scrap carbides, yet... My QCTP is AXA size, I think. Small... (often sold as 250-000 on Chinesium sites) and the holder can't hold thicker than 12mm tools. Still better than the 4poster that came with the lathe. It couldn't hold better than 8mm tools. (SIEG SC2 mini lathe. ) I have 4 '1' holders right now, but have 5 '1' and a '2' on order right now. I think that should hold me for a while. But... this isn't my first QCTP. I first bought the SIEG QCTP from the local distributor, and it came with 3 holders. And... couldn't order more holders anywhere! That sucked. Sure, I could have made do with those 3, but they were also a bit awkward, and if I had to replace the tool in one of the holders all the time, I just decided to ditch it. (I'm pretty certain it was quicker to change a tool in the 4poster than to replace a tool holder on the QCTP... Yeah, that awkward) There's a 'mini lathe' QCTH on the market, with similarly-looking holders, but where the adjustment wheel is gold-coloured. It's pretty easy to mistake those for the 250-series. My toolholders are 250-001 and 002, and there exists others, including a 250-010 knurling holder, too. But there's a 250-1xx series holders, also, and of course, as they're sold by Chinese who doesn't know the difference between a tool holder and a wombat emasculator, it's impossible to find out what the difference is. I probably have to actually buy one...
Hello Joe Thanks for that info ! some of that I did not know . did you say 40 years ? ha ha ! you sure do not look that old ! I am 73 and I look it ! Stay young and do not get hurt !
Mr. Joe, Another hit, Thanks a lot please keep-em coming. Question: do you check all of your tool holders and if so how close are they from the supplier. I'm asking about the higher quality brands like the Aloris and Dorian. I seems a shame to pay good money for good tool holders and have to "Fix" them out of the box since they are not inexpensive. Thanks Again!!
I have a Phase II QCTP on my 13" LeBlond lathe. The tool holder numbers begin with 250. Do you know if the Aloris BXA holders will interchange, and is that an acceptable thing to do? Or, should I just stick with the Phase II holders and tools? And once again - THANK YOU SO MUCH for sharing your knowledge with us! Yourself, Quinn and James are my machining heros!
I really can't comment on the interchangeability between the 2 brands. If you're just looking for the name brand and no other reason, I'd stick with what I have unless they don't perform as you expect. Thanks for the compliment.
I have 1947 Southbend 14 1/2 swing lathe with a 7 ft bed. Looking at the quick changes, both BXA and CXA fall in the range for my swing. It has the lantern style on it now and contemplating the upgrade. BXA is towards the Max and CXA is towards the min for their respective ranges. I am only putting an Aloris on it, she doesn't get any cost cutting corners taken on her. Which one would you get and why?
I know it is possible to recycle carbide but the only place I've found wants a large quantity. I haven't weighed my bucket but I can barely pick it up. Shipping will probably make it not worth while. These are from my woodworking business, not my hobby metalworking. I know that no professional machinist would sharpen carbide inserts but I do it on a Shars tool & cutter grinder. The geometry is changed but for my use they work fine. I'm cheap! I've also been known to regrind dull woodworking router bits to use on metal. Having them professionally sharpened to use on the CNC router isn't worth it. The coating is lost and errors are made in putting the new diameter into the machine file.
I've almost entirely quit using insert tooling in the home shop. Silver soldered carbide lathe tools are 1/10th the price and with a $20 bench grinding wheel the tools can be resharpened in just a moment. If you use them, avoid Chinese mystery tooling and get the grade suitable for the material you are turning. In the job shop or production shop insert tooling is the way to go. Time is money and along with horsepower and rigidity, insert tooling is how you make chips. Like Joe says, even in a job shop, not getting everything you can out expensive tooling will devour your profits. Cheers from NC/USA
Have you ever used a KDK tool post. It is superior to Aloris. KDK has two independent height adjustments. and I have never needed a height adjustment adapter. Once I put in a longer height adjustment set screw when using a small holder on a big tool post.
@@joepie221 Joe Pie, I forward your videos to worthy friends, you are a wealth of information....wish I had my 15" Triumph 2000 Back from the guy who never paid me for it. Cheers, Paul in Orlando....
I have the opposite problem with my OXA QCTP post mounted on my 7x12 lathe - I almost can't get my tools low enough to get them on center. My parting/grooving tool is almost at the very bottom of its adjustment range in order to get the top of the blade on center. As far as having a lot of holders, I just added another 6 OXA 001 tool holders to my drawer, bringing me up to 11. Still not enough holders for my liking, as I keep making new tools. The biggest goldmine of tooling and accessories I have found for my hobby lathes is Littlemachineshop.com out of Pasadena. Canadian exchange rate sucks, but they are the best source of supplies for these size machines I have found so far
@@owenclark7210 I'm upgrading my 9x20 from an OXA to AXA. If you need to get the tools lower get smaller tools (3/8 instead of 1/2) or take material off the bottom of the tool shank. That will lower the tool in the holder. That's what I'm having to do
I see tons of high end shops (some of them involved with the top 10 fortune 500 companies) wasting more than half the edges on their inserts and it makes me facepalm every time.
Great tips, I realised after forking out almost $100 for my first box of inserts, that I might be better off getting matching tool holders to reduce the variety of inserts($$$), hasn't really worked out that well, I keep seeing cool new tools, on bloody RU-vid video's, that I just have to have..... I got it bad;). Thanks, Joe, Scott. p.s. if anybody's looking for me, I'll be searching for matching CPG holders:),
