QnA: Charismatic gifts? If you sell your soul to the devil? What's a real Lutheran Church? 

I'm so glad you 💙did this video about the charismatic movement! I was baptized in an Assembly of God church when I was nine years old and I was at the altar asking God to forgive me for my sins because I knew at a very young age that I needed a savior! But my grandma and her friends were more concerned about me speaking in tongues and they kept telling me to day JESUS, JESUS, JESUS REALLY REALLY FAST AND WHEN JIBBERISH WORDS CAME OUT THEY WERE CLAPPING AND REJOICING THAT I HAD BEEN FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT!!! I WAS SO CONFUSED!!! I AM SO GLAD I'M ABLE TO LISTEN TO YOU ALL LUTHERANS ON RU-vid!!! LOL MY aunt Callie was a Lutheran, and my Pentecostal Grandmother told me to not listen to her because of her views on water BAPTISM!! Love ya LUTHERAN pastors!!! 💙💙

There were so many hard pills to swallow as I left Charismania behind. I saw in this movement the teaching of the occultic "Law of Attraction", the teaching that "we are little gods", and more. It was really hard because that is how I started my faith walk. But we need to learn humility. I thank God for channels like this, LutheranSatire, Fighting for the Faith, Justin Peters, and Conversations with a Calvinist.

The saddest things i have read about those who have been hurt by the charismatic movement is that these individuals were dependent on themselves for the promise of salvation, and felt like they were doing something wrong. They were completely unawar3 of the promises given us in Grace through Jesus alone.

Before I was Lutheran I thought Lutherans were people who went to church, chanted the liturgy, got confirmed but had no relationship with Christ and didn't have a passion for spending time in prayer and studying His word. Obviously, I was wrong!

My family is all Southern Baptist and Primitive Baptist. When my dad found out I'd joined the LCMS, he asked, "What do they believe?" "We are saved by grace, not our works." He gave a very positive response, and that's all he needed. Growing up Southern Baptist, I never heard that. I'm glad Dad heard it somewhere.

I agree with you 100% on all three of those points that you mentioned Bryan. I used to speak in charismatic tongs and I thought it was good, but it is so evil, because I used to constantly hear swearing voices and always angry and not at peace at all. I remember seeing a man who definitely had an evil spirit in him and he spoke in charismatic tongs. So it shows you it's evil. I have since denounced it and haven't heard those voices and at peace and not angry. There is absolutely no order in the charismatic churches. I've been to them for years and over the years it's gotten a lot worse and have left now and recently have started going to a Lutheran church. I am loving it so much and getting to know God and the gospel in the right way

A real Lutheran Church? No women pastors, no alphabet weddings, no charismatic shenanigans, proper worship music, communion in both kinds, you know, the biblical stuff

❤❤Greeting to all Conservative Lutheran now, lets pray for folks I was there but now my thought is let us all pray. The Holy Spirit is in charge of the Church of Jesus Christ. People are seeing God and He is faithful to lead His Church. Blessing to everyone ❤

A certain elder for some reason briefed Lutheran students from the three nearby campus who came to worship on Sunday which I was informed later by a student. He told them our church was still using the Old Lutheran form of worship with detailed liturgy. Following Sunday notice time, I stood up and put it bluntly: 'Elders must refrain from speaking to our new students about our form of worship, or we lose the church identity.'Period. It's better put this way. (Evangelical Lutheran Church of PNG)

Assuming people are thinking of a confessional Lutheran synod and not the ELCA, in my experience people either assume Lutherans are just another Protestant group (which is weird, since it wasn't all that long ago that we were lumped in with the Catholics by Americans), or they think we're the ones that their Aunt So-and-So visited one time and they wouldn't give her communion and she still rants about it at thanksgiving fifteen years later.

Great discussions, thank you. I began life as a Lutheran but at age 17 went off to Baptist and Pentecostal churches until I was aged 50 when I enrolled in a very good Evangelical seminary and after 12 months of study had realisation that something had to change. So my wife and I departed all that and started attending a Lutheran church (similar style to yours) and from that experience now 10 years latter we often reflect back how those churches are so different, but also how far those churches can be “off track”. The other thing is how narrow the preaching is. While in a Lutheran church we have heard topics preached we never heard at all. God Bless you both.

Pastor Wolfmueller and Pastor Packer, I must tell you that i thoroughly value these discussions about Lutheran theology and practice. Concerning the practice of grape juice/wine at our church we offer both. The reason was we have a member who was not taking communion and upon asking we were told that she was alcohol intolerant, so the elders and pastor decided to offer both from the individual cups. They are distinguished by being a different color from our communion wine. Thank you for your time.

As a former charismatic, I remember how insistent they were on "unity", yet at the cost of sound doctrine. It took a long time for me to.embrace doctrine and un-learn the flawed teachings I had known.

awesome informative video!!! thank you! i have been a member of my local lcms church immanul lutheran in Hamilton ohio for 2 years and before then if you asked me what is a lutheran i totally had no clue lol ..once i started attending ( my mom was a member and my brother attended the school attached to the church) I would never go back to the old Baptist life!! I feel so much closer to God now its awsome ! I look forward to every service.. there is just so much more focus on God and not self in my church..thats what i see anyway ❤✝️

Even though I’m more of a contemporary worshiper than you guys would expect me to be I still appreciate how you handle the issues. I really liked your question about how the outside views us Lutherans. Being in a semi German area of Texas I’m often met more with statements like y’all brought up. However, I’m also asked “”are y’all the ones that practice the sprinkle creed?” Then on the flip side asked “are y’all the ones who disagree with women’s rights and women pastors?” But I really can get into it when people honestly ask what we believe about salvation, works, grace etc…

7:30 -in 1982ish I was told by pastor of charismatic church during the laying on of hands, "even if you say 'yabba dabba doo' you are speaking in tongues."

Sinclair Ferguson has done a wonderful study series on Holy Spirit, worth a listen/read

My husband and I are confessional Lutherans now. There's a lot of Catholic churches in our area, and our family is moderately charismatic (not NAR) having left Catholicism years ago. I've often heard that Lutherans are considered "Catholic-lite" and didn't leave Roman Catholicism completely. We had family question our salvation & another at least say we were deceived when we became Lutheran due to view of baptism & communion saying it's heretical.

Interesting. Do you have the link to the study on the Holy Ghost, referenced by Pastor Wolfmueller? I think some of my Pentecostal/Charismatic family members, might find it helpful. Thanks.

I use the term sell your soul When someone is willing to do anything to get ahead of others.

The grape juice concern at the Eucharist is something I have read about in, "a summary of christian doctrine". Several of us men, including our pastor, discussed how God does not give us an alcohol content for the wine. If grape juice is open to the atmosphere for any period of time it has slightly fermented. Absolutely use fermented wine if possible. As far as alcohol sensitivity, how can something that is blessed, with the authority of God, be bad for you? Paul writes about both the spiritual and physical benefits of receiving God's blessings through communion. But, please read your Bible, find a congregation that is word alone, pray, and follow God's will in your life.

Is that study of the Holy Spirit recorded and do you have a reference to it?

I am not really sure about what has been said regarding the speaking in tongues/praying in tongues. I agreed with much of what you both said, and I am interested in reading the Evaluation Of Claims To the Charismatic Gifts book that you recommended. However, I and my family are LCMS Lutheran, and yet my parents can both pray in tongues. My mother has told me that she has met LCMS pastors who can pray in tongues too (though they don't flaunt it publicly). It's true that my parents first started praying in tongues when they were living abroad and a pastor of an international church offered to privately pray over them. But the way my mother describes it is that when she is at a loss of what to pray in times of trouble, she feels like the praying in tongues helps to give her words to pray. She also does not feel like she is praying gibberish. And, when it comes to other gifts like healing, my mother once was in an accident and the bones of her finger were crushed, but when my Lutheran grandma prayed asking for God to heal my mom, my mother's finger healed good as new before their eyes. There were no other healing cases connected with my grandmother, but just that one time, my mother believes that God answered my grandmother's prayers in a very miraculous way. However, my parents have always clearly taught their children that such gifts and miracles are in no way a criteria for faith and salvation. We were taught to think of them as in 1 Corinthians 12. I myself often feel a strong burden on my heart to pray for people, and I think that urgency to do so is a gift that God gives me for the good of others as well as a strengthening of my own faith for I cannot pray to God and say "'Jesus is Lord' except in the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3 ESV). Lastly, sometimes I wonder about the "self-control" listed in the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). I think He does protect us from demonic possession, which means we keep our self-control in that sense, but I think the faith we are given also gives us "self-control" in the sense of resisting temptation, not sinning in our anger by losing our temper so badly that we say hurtful things intending to cause pain to others, etc. I wonder if we Lutherans are not narrowly overusing what the "self-control" gift refers to too much when I only hear that self-control fruit of the Spirit being talked about in context of rebuking the Charismatic movement.

When I think of "Lutheran", I picture a sect that is often detached from Martin Luther's original teachings and is fading away. Plus there are several divisions of Lutherans, very different from each other.

I grew up Lutheran and still am…although I now live in Montana and attend a southern Baptist church. I had to make a concession so my husband would attend . I noticed the church I grew up in has shifted to a much more liberal stance, that church is in Colorado. When I hear Lutheran I think of pot lucks and coffee (in styrofoam cups of course! 🤣).. oh and Lutefisk…. 😟 Even the Lutheran churches here lean pretty far left and are not gospel centered. I am so happy I found your channel and look forward to hearing more!

Most Charismatic Christians entire system of faith is based on their most recent Godly experience. If their not having these experiences their faith falls apart. So they continually seek emotional events. Its seen in the modern christian music artists.

34:20 When I think of Lutheran I think of good hermeneutics in a high church context. I'm not a Lutheran, mostly because there aren't any (confessional, non liberal) in the Netherlands. I often listen to Kongsvinger services, so that'd be my reference.

And one more thing about the thing. Your take on the Charismatic movement is accurate. I know a few that came out of that movement because it does believe that if you have the Holy Spirit you will sopeak in tongues. That says Christians have to conform or be liars. And that is very spiritually damaging. In order to be accepted by your brothers and sisters you pretend to speak in tongues. But you know in your heart you're lying. And Satan just uses that to pull you away from God. "You're a liar. God doesn'tlike liars.". Or "See you are not really a Christian. All these other people are better than you snd God chose them. They are speaking in tongues. They are real. You are not". Or "you are lying. How do you know all these other people aren't lying too. You can't trust anyone. You can't believe what you see or what you don't see. You can't even open to anyone that you are lying. You faker.". And then Satan convinces you that you can't even tell the truth to God. God's like all the people around you. Lying. God wont accept you. You're not a Christian. You're a pretend Christian. Pray for these people. They are in so much bondage and they don't know it. Thank you Pastor Wolfmueller for all your podcasts and posts. I joined a very godly LCMS church in 2019. I so appreciate our pastors who speak God's truth. The Bible is inerrent. And I asked our Pastor about your posts to make sure all is well. Having your books at CPH also helped. Thank you for all your explanations. I know between my pastors and your messages I am getting saturated in good truthful Biblical doctrine. The traditional Lutheran denominations have so much to offer. Many don't know the gifts they have in the LCMS. I thank God for LCMS.

The main reason why I drink juice instead of wine during communion is because there is tons of alcoholism in my family. to me if God can change wine into blood, then he can certainly change juice into blood

Check out Fighting for the Faith with Chris R. for a great ministry that is fighting the lies of the charismatic movement.

Charismatic Altar Calls come to Mind. Well I gave my life to Christ, but I messed up! Do I need to go again and give my life to Christ?

Oh and who do I talk to about getting my son information on this cruise?

Pastor B, you menntion Pr Tim Halls, Elemental Certainty in this video. Im trying to find it to read. Can you direct me? Thank you, Cindy

Would you edit out the marks of the church into a short?

I go to a lutheran church and it is liturgical. what concerns me is the district is wanted to build a church near by that is only contemporary and in a rich neighborhood. What do i do? 😢. System seems broken.

The apostle Paul admonishes that things ought to be done decently and in order. He actually endorsed and listed various spiritual gifts. I'm not charismatic myself but have witnessed deliverence (demonic) tongues and healing among people I trust. I find no evidence that these gifts would cease. The problem is there misuse or overemphasis. I've had people tell me I must speak in tongues as a sign that I"m saved. I tend to ignore them. I also ignore people who say these gifts have ceased. God is moving in these end times and I believe we're going to see a lot more or the miraculous. We're told in scripture that the end times would see a form of godliness but denying it's power.

Have a Part 2 Cruise for 42-82, Pastor Packer can host that one😅😅

Could the parishioner concerned about taking communion with grape juice ask the pastor to give them individual communion with wine until a better option is offered?

It could be soul power, physic power. I use to be in that circle but also in Ro 7:25 ect. But now I have peace and freedom and I know its Gods grace through His Spirit that works freedom and liberation in our soul.Self control, peace, free from fear and other habits. There is so much to learn but having library is just great. Free from guilt and condemnation. This is all available and possible so I'm not in that camp but its Gods grest grace at work as we truly seek Him. It's hard to explain all I can say is inside I know there is a change and I know repenting and calling on God is so needed. The character is the key, ones dispositions in hard times. The Life of Christ in our flesh manisfested is a joy. Non of us are there but we are,, I know zI am,, moving forward in Christ.

I have a question if a Lutheran Church used grape juice in the Sacrament does it cease to be a sacrament??? That’s no different than just serving the bread or Host at Communion?

I think people look at lutheran as "not quite Catholic " if that makes sense.

Re grace juice, if the pastor does this because he thinks it is alright, go to the circuit counsel, then the district president. Go up the chain.

What do other Christians think of Lutherans, especially Evangelicals? I can tell you when I returned to college to obtain my BA I enrolled at a SBC college where I received my degree in biblical studies. I was the only Lutheran/sacramentalist in this pre-ministerial program. All of these students were preparing to become pastors in one church body or another. NO ONE had a clue about us. If they thought about us at all it was that we were Roman Catholic without a pope. When I explained what we confessed and that we were the first “evangelicals” and the first “Protestants”, they were in shock!

Tongues were always known languages? ”For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.“ ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭14‬:‭2‬

This might be a pedantic point on my part, but for the sake of accuracy, I’d like to point out that the Words of Jesus as recorded in 1 Corinthians 11 are not “Do this often in remembrance of me,” but “Do this, as often as your drink it, in remembrance of me.” The Greek word there is hosakis, “as often,” not pollakis “often.” Again, this might be a pedantic point ( which I find myself doing a lot). I think we can assert that the words imply a repetitive action. But I just wanted to point for the sake of accuracy that the word “often” is not the same as “as often.”

Thank you. Had the same experience with the Charismatics and an attempt to make me speak in tongues. After many years I no longer consider them brothers in the faith. They have another gospel. Wherever they go they stir up division and hatred. They are constantly talking about themselves and the power the Holy Spirit gives them to work miracles. Get yourself far away from them as possible.

We are not an LCMS, Lutheran Church, and we use grape juice in our communion on Sundays. I am the pastor, and I have wanted to use wine however, I am aware that in our small church of 40 members, we have a high percentage of, as you stated, “alcohol, sensitive“ people. My resolution of this has been to use wine in private, communions at nursing homes and hospitals, and in peoples homes when there is sickness or another need. And I have stuck to grape juice for Sunday mornings so that everyone may participate. freely.

Does baptism into steam count?

I was told that grape juice is fine. But stay within the fruit of the vine...aka, grapes. Dont be serving/ drinking pomegranate juice, strawberry juice, cranberry, etc.

There are a few charismatic churches that are not like what you said. They're orderly and there is always an interpreter. I went to a charismatic church for about a year and a half as as a child. And I became of an age when I would go upstairs like the adults did. I had children's church at the same time as adult church. The Sunday school teacher asked me if I wanted to "accept Jesus as my savior". I asked what would that mean. You would have the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues. I said no. And we left that church. I knew I was already a Christian and had a close relationship with Jesus. It was at least 3 years later that I realized I already had the Holy Spirit. Paul did talk about him speaking in the tongues of angels in his private time with God and that he has no idea what he's saying. So I do believe there is a speaking of in tongues that is Gods language. But the person who does that will never tell you. Is Paul said that is something private between him and God. It is a gift and is nothing to boast about. I did go back in college for two visits to a Pentecostal church. The way they put tongues in an interpreter up center detracted from my ability to worship God. I do think most churches that are charasmatic have a lack of understanding of theology in the Bible.

I can’t see how the devil can give anything to us other than misery.

Leadership at Lutheran Churches have basic Lutheran Doctrines, but interpretation by leadership makes each church its own kind of entity.

Mick Jagger, Kieth Richard’s, Bob Dylan, Neil Young. I could go on and on. That was a bad example

I can tell you from experience that people have a misinformed view of Lutherans. When we lived in West Virginia, child protective services were called on us because my son couldn't accurately describe what a Lutheran is and believes. They thought we were in a cult, and we were very secretive about our religion. I always said we may be a little elitist, but not secretive. LOL

The argument presented her for using wine and not juice, could easily be used to say that it has to happen after the evening meal, or it has to be taken from the same cup. Because that was what Jesus and the disciples did. There is no law for this, just as you don't have to use running or slightly dirty water for baptism, or even full submersion (even if that's a powerful image), just because that was what they probably used/did in Jordan. Don't add to the Bible and make it unnecessarily hard on people. Also I think it is the same word in greek, if specification was neede you woul add "new" or "old" for juice or wine. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

The Lutheran church is the only church that understands worship. We recieve the forgiveness of sin and this leads to salvation. And the second divine service is that God works through us -which can never lead to salvation. It has nothing to do with the hymnal or the style of music. Both forms of latreutical worship (1.receptive worship and 2.our offering of the works He does through us.) are found throughout the new and old Testaments.

I realize this isn't the full treatment on Charismatics, but there are a great deal of Charismatics who believe in the authority of Scripture, church order, and don't believe in rolling around on the ground in convulsions. If you only look at only the "worst of the bunch" you will always find the worst of the bunch. If I looked at Lutherans this way, I'd make quite a case for antinomianism, but I don't because I recognize that isn't the core of Lutheran theology. With that said, there is an intelligent debate among Charismatics, and a Biblical case to be made for the continuation of the gifts. It isn't all as caricatured as many do. With that said, much caution is necessary and the entire doctrinal structure of some groups like Pentecostals is definitely faulty but I can't agree with the saying that gifts have ceased altogether based on the abuse of said gifts.

I think the one word Luther had in mind was 'Liar'.

Four golden texts that utterly demolish Pentecostalism when expounded correctly from the original Greek: Acts 2:11 1 Corinthians 14:18 1 Corinthians 13:1 1 Corinthians 14:5 Overview: 1) Tongues were known languages in which the message of God's Word was proclaimed. 2) Paul uses the INDICATIVE MOOD in the original text to state fact. 3) Paul NEVER spoke in the languages of Angels. The hypothetical "IF + SUBJUNCTIVE MOOD series of statements make this glaring obvious in the Greek text. 4) Tongues is nothing more than the gift of prophecy in another language. Let's see how. 1) In Acts 2:11 we find that with the very first appearance of tongues: - Those around them heard them speak in THEIR OWN TONGUES from the various countries they come from AND EVEN in their own various DIALECTS. - And THE CONTENT they heard was about THE WONDERFUL WORKS OF GOD. (Yes, Bible tongues had SPECIFIC CONTENT focussed on Christ (2 Corinthians 5:19). The counterfeit contains only BABBLE in the form of VAIN REPETITIONS (Matthew 6:7)) 2) In 1 Corinthians 14:18, when Paul states: I thank my God I speak in tongues more than you all Paul uses for the words: "I speak" λαλῶ (Lalo) which is an INDICATIVE in the Greek. Indicatives are used in Greek to assert statements of FACT. And therefore they are used by the Lord and His Apostles to assert statements of FACT. Paul was stating, in accord with Acts 2:11, (which also uses the INDICATIVE MOOD VERB), that he spoke the wonderful Word of God in more other known tongues than the Corinthians were doing. 3) Not so in 1 Corinthians 13:1-3 though! Here Paul shifts entirely to: - a repeated pattern of the conditional particle ἐὰν (ean) - IF and - A switch to the SUBJUNCTIVE MOOD. Now the subjunctive mood, unlike the indicative mood, IS NOT the mood of FACT. The subjunctive mood is used to state "what is possible", and sometimes "what is probable". But here, when used in conjunction with the conditional particle "IF", the subjunctive mood is used to denote "hyperbole" and to denote "what is hypothetical". Moreover the subjunctive mood is often translated "SHOULD" , "WOULD" or "COULD". Let's examine the structure. Paul writes: "Though I speak with tongues of men and angels and have not love I am become as a sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal" First of all, the English expression is a contraction of the full expression"Even though" . But more importantly, this is really just the HYPOTHETICAL, word IF in the Greek. Secondly the use of the subjunctive mood in the verb λαλῶ means that it needs to be translated accordingly as IF I SHOULD speak in the tongues of men and of angels and have not love ... Or using English idiom THOUGH I SHOULD speak in the tongues of men and of angels and have not love ... Or even more literally according to the intention of the hypothetical idiom EVEN THOUGH I SHOULD speak in the tongues of men and of angels and have not love ... But let's develop it further ... The rest of the passage follows suit using the subjunctive mood repeatedly for all of the hypothetical propositions. THOUGH I SHOULD have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries and have not love AND THOUGH I SHOULD have faith to remove mountains and have not love, I am nothing. AND THOUGH I SHOULD bestow all my goods to feed the poor AND THOUGH I SHOULD give my body to be burned , and have not love, it profits me nothing. Now Paul never gave his body to be burned, and Paul did not move mountains, and Paul did not give all his goods away either, and he certainly did not speak in the languages of Angels ! These statements are hypothetical propositions, and in the case of the "Angel tongues" they are pure hyperbole. Paul is effectively saying THOUGH I SPEAK IN SWAHILI ... and have not love .... I am nothing Paul NEVER gave his body to be burned and he NEVER spoke in the tongues of angels! 4) In 1 Corinthians 14:5 Paul states: Greater is he that prophesies than he that speaks in tongues, EXCEPT that person interprets: THAT THE CHURCH MAY RECEIVE EDIFYING" Now we have come full circle back to point 1) in Act's 2:11. Why is the gift of prophecy greater than the gift of languages (ie tongues)? Because when men spoke in tongues, they were PROPHESYING in the known languages and dialects of men. This means that the use of Biblical tongues was simply PROPHESYING in other languages. And it is only when the person prophesying in other tongues, can translate that message into plain language of the listener , that the person becomes EQUAL to the one who prophesies in the language of the audience. Another compelling piece of evidence for the fact that: Tongues = Prophesying in other languages may be readily derived from Peter's appeal to Joel 2:28. Peter states that THIS (speaking in tongues the wonderful world of God) IS THAT which Joel spoke about: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will POUR OUT of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall PROPHESY - So the baptism of the Spirit (Acts 1:5) was accomplished by POURING not by dipping / immersion (see also Acts 2:33 where ἐξέχεεν (execheen) means "TO POUR" not to dip. (This puts the lie, also to the Baptist false doctrine that Baptism must be by immersion - exclusively. Clearly baptism can be by pouring, and indeed by sprinkling also (Ezekiel 36:25; Hebrews 9:10.)) - And the speaking in tongues was one of the ways in which Joel's prophesy which spoke of "PROPHESYING" was fulfilled. (Acts 2:16, 17) Summary: 1) Tongues is a Greek idiom which means "actual spoken languages. When men spoke in Biblical tongues, they prophesied the the Wonderful works of God. 2) Paul used indicative mood verbs when he wanted to state objective truth and objective fact. Paul DID speak in more foreign languages (tongues) than the Corinthians. And based on 1 Corinthians 14:5, he used this gift wisely and to reach appropriate audiences. 3) Paul switched to CONDITIONAL and HYPOTHETICAL LANGUAGE by switching away from standard Greek Indicative mood verbs to Subjunctive mood verbs. He used a repetitive series of conditional particles + subjunctive mood verbs to build a series of hypothetical and hyperbolic cases. Paul NEVER spoke in Angel tongues. And when Pentecostals try to hide their MINDLESS BABBLING under the smokescreen of "angel tongues" they are greatly deceived. And in fact they are lying by God's Word (Jeremiah 23:21, 26, 31) How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets THAT PROPHESY LIES? YEA, THEY ARE PROPHETS OF THE DECEIT OF THEIR OWN HEART (Jeremiah 23:26) 4) Genuine Bible tongues were simply the gift of prophecy but in other languages. Moreover it was given predominantly as a sign for "THIS PEOPLE" ie UNBELIEVING ISRAEL (Isaiah 28:11; Matthew 15:8; 1 Corinthians 14:21) Today genuine Biblical tongues have long passed (1 Corinthians 13:8) The signs served their purpose and were given essentially during the first generation of New Testament believers in order to confirm the Word (Hebrews 2:3, 4)

If paul is speaking of existing languages then why does he also says that it need an interpreter ? If speaking of toungues is in earthly launguage anyone can understand we wont need any interpreter

Talking about the Holy Spirit probably should be something to be careful about. The whole unforgivable sin thing. These charismatics and self proclaimed prophets are choosing a rough path to go down. Grape juice does not seem like a problem to me. The Seventh Day Adventists call it "new wine" don't they? While I disagree with the SDA and it seems like a cult. I think grape juice is fine. Jesus said that wherever you go, eat what is presented to you. I can even eat meat sacrificed to idols. I will eat catholic meat and blood. I will eat crackers and grape juice. Nothing will shake my faith. When you start caring about wine or grape juice, how is that not idolatry? I hear eastern Orthodox priests talk about wine. Frankly it is disgusting, they don't care if someone is an alcoholic or alcohol sensitive. Their traditions are more important. They will rather be a stumbling block than to compromise their traditions. If you went to them and said you can't drink alcohol, they would make up excuses, and like a snake, try to convince you to go against your conscience. I don't think Lutherans should look down upon grape juice. It troubles my heart.