How to setup your anti skating about 85% of the way without any tools and equipment Cartridge: amzn.to/3tT3fz2 Turntable: amzn.to/3IxLkC6 (bluetooth version)
I think you managed to create the PERFECT anti-skating video. My NEW cartridge/stylus has been DIVING into the first track on a couple of my LPs. I've adjusted everything pretty darn well (overhang, tracking force, protractors, height, etc)... But I refused to touch the anti-skating, stubbornly leaving it at zero. Now I know I'm an idiot. And I thank you for that!
Thank you very much! It's definitely not perfect, you really need a test record and oscilloscope for that (and if you have a fancy setup it's definitely worth to invest in that) but judging by how much non-sense there is online regarding anti-skating setup, I figured I'd at least try to get everyone 'close' :D. I'm happy so many people find this video!
Finally a method that makes sense to help those without ability to accurately test this setting. It allows us to get it set very close to the proper setting. For most folks that is the best we can achieve. This setting has always been the one setting I could not feel confident I did right. I set it by careful listening and it turns out your method confirmed I had it set well. Problem with the dial type with numbers the spring weakens over time and matching the grams to dial is not accurate over time (may have never been accurate). Thanks again for this tip.
There is another method that is even more precise but only works with manual record players. Check soundsmith’s guide on anti skating. Grams made no sense anyway, even if the dial were correct. You rarely end up there :)
This is great! I have set up my antiskating to the same amount as the weight itself (2 grams), which ís recommended by the manufacturer. However, dropping the needle at the beginning of my records had it skip over the first few grooves, which I now learned is something I might be able to fix with slightly more antiskating weight.
You are very welcome! It's well worth hooking up your stereo rig to a simple sound interface (Behringer has 25 usd ones that are just fine for this) and using oscilloscope software, it's available for free. The most expensive thing will be your test record, a good one is usually around 50usd, but that way you can setup everyone's record player. Still, this method gets you close. And seriously, whatever manuals and even audiophiles say; this is the only quick method that doesn't involve an oscilloscope. Using a blank record makes no sense and setting it to the weight even less so. Manuals are often simplifying stuff, for instance; in a cassette recorder manual it always states to record until the meters only go into the red at the loudest peaks of the music. So that would be around +1dB's at peaks. Whereas tape manufacturers work really hard to make tapes handle way louder levels, sometimes even up to +10. If you were obeying the manual, you'd be wasting your money on those tapes. And it's the same with cars. No manual explains to you how to properly shift gears (i.e.; giving the gearbox time to synchronize from gear to gear, not putting it into first gear until you're almost stationary and actually letting the gearbox center itself, not pushing it diagonally to the next or previous gear). So I guess in the end we need to figure our stuff out by ourselves. Part of the fun, right? It's nice to get it right! :D.
Where in the world are you? I may some day actually be there to demand that beer you just offered me :D. I would like to repeat myself; This is not the scientific method, it's worth while getting a proper test record (i use the hifi news test record) and an oscilloscope (computer scope software works too!) but in a pinch, this works.
There are more precise ways but this is your fast one. Make sure you look into overhang and compliance though. It’s a bit much to handle but it matters so much. Feel free to tell me what record player and cartridge combo you got and I will tell you if your compliance is correct, and why.
@@rollingtroll The anti-skate was the only thing I did not have a clue about how to adjust it exactly. I have a TD124 + Jelco SA750L + Phasemation T300 SUT. I use an Ortofon SPU #1E and a Zyx Ultimate 100, depending on the mood.
Great vid. I think AT decks are now equipped with really juiced anti-skate springs since even at 0, mine has a slight "return to rest" effect on the tonearm when floating. At least the anti-skate actually works now.
Thanks for the advice. I have the LP120XBT + VM95E for daily listening and it’s working for me with VTF 2, anti skating at 1.1 with this method. I have the VM95ML too, but I guess that will need a different anti skating adjustment.
Did this and it worked like a charm. My sound improved dramatically. Also matched up with a smooth movement towards the spindle on the inner dead wax of the record. This method stopped the aggressive jerking of the stylus into the spindle there too. Distortion gone. Using a laser disk I guess could also work but the goal there would be to watch the needle ride smoothly towards the spindle. And not for it to sit still at all points of the record-that wouldn’t work anyway on a pivoted tone arm; Maybe a straight tone arm.
Thank you! I've been using my AT-LP120X with a VM95E stylus (both set to 2g) but this method that you showed us is gold. Can you tell me what the test record is for? Is it different than the blank record? Thx! 🤘🏼💿
It has resonating frequencies that will distort the sound it the anti skating is off. It literally causes the stylus to rattle in the groove. You can hear it, but even more precisely see it on a scope. If you want some in depth info and don’t mind it going technical look at the soundsmith explanation somewhere on RU-vid :)
Hey thanks so much for the video. Was definitely experiencing some skipping over the first few grooves before doing this. Question though: when I lift the cueing lever at the end of the record (or even in the middle), the tone arm goes up but also swings back somewhat substantially instead of just popping up in place. Is this normal? At a lower anti-skating setting this obviously wasn't happening because there wasn't as much force pulling the tonearm back. Thanks again!
You are welcome! Your lift is pribably dusty and slippery. Clean it with a q tip and some alcohol, also clean the bottom of the arm where it touches the lift and it should be good :)
That said, if the difference is very shocking there may be other things wrong. How did you setup your overhang? Also what arm/cartridge combo are you using? It may be way off, and then it just gets more sensitive to everything.
@@rollingtroll My player is a Teac TN-300SE-MB and my cartridge is a AT-VM95EN. I used one of the Hudson set up records with a scale on one side and the other side is blank.Only problem I was having is a little bit of IGD and it would skip when I would drop the cartridge down to play a record sometimes. I know some IGD is not 100% avoidable but I was having a little more than I thought I should be having. I do plan on upgrading to a micro line cartridge.
It's really hard to find the effective mass of this arm, but what I found is 23 grams which is properly heavy. The AT-VM95EN is relatively high compliant (way more than the "E"). Have you tried it with the regular "E"? If not, do it. I know it's technically a worse performing stylus, but chances are it will match way better with your arm. @@kevinwest1607
I got a question if you set the antiskating for the beginning of the record would that be too much for the end of the record? Because it will be pulling to much to the outer grooves?
Seems that many of my jazz discs have lead-in wax that is not exactly flat (like the rest of the album), but wider and inclined to drop down onto the flatter/main section of the vinyl. This, I would think, would affect the forces involved, no? Solution... make sure to use a disc with flat lead in wax. But still, as I have experimented with non-groove vinyl sides, the tracking for any given setting seems to behave differently, depending on the needle-drop location (first-track, middle, last (toward inner dead wax). I tend to calibrate in the middle of the platter, and so remain dubious that this method produces optimal results for the entire platter.
Absolutely, make sure you either use a flat one or only use the last little bit. Or get an oscilloscope and a test record, which in the end is the best option :). A test record has its anti skating setup grooves on the inside of the record, and then one at the beginning and one half way. You do the setup on the inside though. So nope, this is most definitely not the optimal result. But that's also exactly what I say, and exactly why the title says 'quick and dirty'. It's as close as you'll get without a test record and oscilloscope.
Franke Schröder, who designs and builds some of the world's best tonearms, came up with a similar anti-skating test. Instead, Frank's test is done in the run out groove towards the dead wax. It is explained @6:35 in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6pmD1gIL_cU.html I will be trying both methods. Thanks for the tip.
Ideally you may want to use the middle of the record. This method seems to match with a proper setup using a test record and oscilloscope more than using the dead wax. May have to do with me using bearwald for overhang, maybe Franke is a Stevenson guy
@@rollingtroll I tried using the deadwax but it was prompting me to use hardly any antiskate at all. With your method, antiskate is now about half of the VTF, which makes more sense (and sounds much better).
never use outer edge of a 12" record. the cross section of the 12" is not even. it's down to the moulds used by given press, be it SMT, Toolex or Hamilton, the first 5mm is NOT horizontal. ive been pressing records for ages, and ive dealt with most of the pressing mould inserts available since the 60s ;)
It technically would if you used the beginning or the end. But it shouldn’t stand still. People are somehow convinced the stylus should stand still to get anti skating right and that just is never the case.
That sucks, my anti-skating setting is too low, no wonder my $2500 cartridge always skips the first few grooves, have been using it for 3 months :(, hope no damage, thanks bro
Excuse my honesty; If you buy a 2500 dollar cartridge without knowing how to set it up, maybe you should change your priorities just a little bit :D. I am happy to help though! Maybe look into overhang and how to properly set your VTF ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1FSOa_-jDsM.html Here's a very very quick video on that, I still need to do a good one May I ask; What cartridge, and what arm are you using?
In the end...your method is actually like setting the antiskate with a blank lazer disc and let the stylus lean towards from the outside to the center of the lazer disc but not aggressively
You can also just use a normal record with quite a bit of dead wax at the end, put it where there is no groove, let it move inward slowly. Works fine too. Laserdiscs have a different abrasiveness though, the stylus doesn't move as freely on them.
@@rollingtroll right, the speed of the skating. Same thing. But it’s a great trick if you’re out playing somewhere. I’m not knocking it, anti skating was that button none of us knew what it was for years before the internet lol Now it gets the attention it deserves. Thanks for posting.
This theory, that a tone arm should be motionless on a groove-less spinning disc is absolutely incorrect according to a phonograph technician I spoke with at length. Actually doing as this theory advocates can cause irreparable damage to the record and stylus. Actually, Anti-Skate is supposed to add a very small (slight) amount of outward force (toward the edge of record) DEFINITELY NOT CAUSING THE TONEARM TO BE MOTIONLESS. With the proper amount of Anti-Skate applied, the TONEARM will still move toward the center of the groove-less disc but at a slightly slower rate of speed compared to the slightly faster inward speed of TONEARM movement if no Anti-Skate was applied.
The beginning of the records have a run in groove, just as the end of the record has the run out groves, so I think it's not the anti-skating that takes your stylus towards the first track of the record, it's the run in grooves.
@@rollingtroll When I say run in grooves I don't mean the first groove where the first track begins, i mean the tiny grooves that takes the stylus to the first groove, because when you mention the first groove in the video, I'm guessing you are talking about the first groove where the music begins, please correct me if I'm wrong.
@@laurelhardy4064 You are wrong I am afraid. I specifically mention that when you drop the stylus, it sometimes hesitates to find the groove, except for when you exactly hit it. So when the anti skating is "off" it skips all of the deadwax (run in grooves) straight onto the music, or it hesitates before it sinks into the groove. When the anti skating is correct, it will slowly sink into the run in groove. Look closely at the video and listen to my explanation then you can see and hear it :)
It will always hit a groove eventually yes. But it’s about HOW it finds the groove. Is it hesitating? Is it rushing in? Watch the footage closely with your eye on the stylus.
This is true, but this is only an approximate adjustment. If you don’t have any equipment to test it, this is as close as you will get. It is smart to use a record with a relatively flat beginning. Some are a little bulbous to the outside which does make the results less reliable.
I am having a ghost of a time figuring out how the Anti-skate works with Microlineal Stylus's and the Blank record method is NOT, I repeat NOT the best.
@@rollingtroll Not with ML stylus's because with ML syulus's you have to set it all the way up for it NOT to run to toward the spindle and this simply cannot be correct.
@@rollingtroll Jumping into this discussion a year late: caveats that it's not as precise as an oscilloscope aside, does your method generally work for an ML stylus?
