Racing the Devil: Identifying Di Meola-Style Wrist Picking Motion 

Great question! Pickslant refers to the slanted orientation of the pick, not the angled direction of its motion. In Andy Wood’s example, the motion is angled, the pick is not. In previous lessons we have been sloppy in referrering them as kind of the same thing. So we now have a term for the motion (escape motion) and a term for the pick’s slant (Pickslanting) because they can vary somewhat independently.

@@troygrady Thanks for the answer Troy! You are awesome. So you can have a pick that is pickslanted but at the same time no scape motion and voce versa. I really thought of those things together.

They vary somewhat independently. Just an example you’ve probably noticed that not all downward pickslanting players have the amount of pickslant. This is not a matter of personal preference. It’s because they’re using different arm positions, pick grips and joint motions, in other words, different techniques. Gypsy technique is not the same as Mike Stern’s technique even though they both are nominally “downward pickslanting”. So right away we know that the pickslant is one thing, with a particular purpose, and that it is separate from the picking motion and whatever is generating it.

@@troygrady Glad that you clarify that either pickslant can have either escape motion. I've mixed both escape motions across both pick slants forever, before your first video even, so I felt like a bit of a freak upon seeing your early videos...like I was doing things too out of the box.

@@troygrady Have you looked into Josh Meader's playing? I have never seen guiatr playing that efficient. Check this out: LINGUS || Cory Henry's Solo on Guitar

Very true! And Troy himself is a monster picker as is clearly seen in his videos. He seems to be able to not lock himself into any one technique and can add all these techniques to his tool box and use as needed.

True that !!

We're doing good, thank you!

@@interestingthings8598 When it's done! We have some detailed updates on our Kickstarter page and blog if you'd like more of the play by play. But we've got working prototypes so things are moving more or less as planned.

I've had that experience of not realizing the future import of the band I was watching, when I saw Alice in Chains open for Extreme. I was just like, who are these dirty guys, and where is Nuno?

My friend s father in law owned a huge guitar store in Maryland. He asked me. Who would be cool to hire to play at store. In early 80s I said Al dimeola He hired him. Store was packed Al said I could sit in. It was. Awesome

Yes but is it OVERLY analytical? I get it and I'm not trying to be an ass but at some point you just have to get to making music. Sometimes you can overthink things.

@@mandanglelow1442 you’re missing the entire purpose of this video and site in general.

@@mandanglelow1442 I hear you. It’s not for everyone but for us guitar nerds who love to have things broken down like this it gives us more clarity in understanding our own preferred way of picking. It’s channels like this that will have its niche and that’s honestly a good thing in standing out from others.

@@maneli True. I was just thinking out loud. 👍😊🍺

@@mandanglelow1442 Yes there is such a thing as overly analytical for sure. The test is simple: do people get better at guitar from watching something? If they say they learned something, but they don't actually get any better, then it's overly analytical. If they say they learned something, and actually acquire an ability they didn't have previously, then it's not overly analytical, no matter how technical the presentation. TLDR it's the results that matter, and this is always uppermost in our minds as teachers.

Too bad we can't get a Larry Coryell video. He's sadly overlooked. Originally the acoustic trio with McLaughlin and Di Meola was supposed to feature Larry Coryell instead of Paco De Lucia. Sadly, his drug problems got in the way. There are some videos of a few performances floating around, and they KILLED as a trio. Larry Coryell had some of THE fastest and CLEANEST picking ever heard in Jazz or Rock. RIP- Larry Coryell

If you've got ISS connections, I'm all for it!

You are probably not alone!

Mine too. I remember Al explaining his picking technique in a magazine article decades ago. I used that info to get started with fast picking.

"Land of the Midnight Sun" was mine. (ignore what that implies about my age:)

not related but it's funny seeing your comment when I recently started playing dark souls.

What?🤔

Haha

I'm a big fan of the EVH middle-finger / three-finger grip style of wrist motion, and it's one of the motions we cover in this series. It's not actually that different from what Al does in overall concept, it's just performed from a different arm position - hence the different grip needed to reach the strings.

This isn’t a requirement - the position of the fingers is somewhat secondary. You can curl them so they don’t hit the guitar in either case. It’s really just the direction the wrist is moving that you’re controlling.

Ancient Martian dialect?

@@Roman8883 yeah ancient Martian dialect. Old language from Mars.

@@mysterybotts yeah yeah sure bud thanks

For sure. The hard part is figuring out how to get through to people. In the sequence of lessons this video comes from, we've included some hands-on tests that someone can do, and sort of sidestep the issue of "knowing" what their motion is. You play certain phrases, and look at whether the motion gets bouncy or stays fast and smooth. A similar hands-on approach like that might work better for students. However, the tests should probably still be administered by a teacher such as yourself, since you'll be better equipped to evaluate the results, i.e. so the student doesn't really have to.

@@troygrady Thanks, Troy! You're doing God's work.

Honestly I don't think there's a gauge that helps you go faster. Common picks in the 1mm to 1.4mm range, like a typical Fender "heavy" or a Dunlop Jazz III, all work fine even for extremely fast playing.

Thanks for watching our stuff! Always happy to hear our stuff may be helpful.

me and you ben

Always glad to hear it!

Correct, yes when we say 2:00 we really mean “8 to 2 or 2 to 8”. However when you want upstroke string changes you can’t do 10. That would be stringhopping. Instead the correct motion is 9. Remember the arm is already tilted, so 9 already escapes. There is no need to move it.

@@troygrady Thank you!👍🏼

Nice work on that. Your right hand technique is pretty cool - you're not alternate picking the fast lines, but actually using pulloffs and upstroke sweeping at various points. Didn't watch the whole thing, so I'm not sure if you address that or not. If you get a chance to film yourself in a "down the strings" perspective, you can get a better view of what's going on, would be interesting to take a look at.

@@troygrady hey Troy! I'm one of those fortunate souls whereas my right hand just does what it does. I rarely give it a second thought. Still love your dedication to right hand mastery. It's important to say the least. I know that I state numerous times within this tutorial that everything is alternate picked, and then I proceed to not alternate pick, haha. My right hand is just doing what it does best for any given situation automatically. At speeds like this piece has, I can't concentrate too heavily on picking technique. I just go and it works itself out. I've been called out a few times in the comments to this tutorial, for claiming everything is alternate picking and then not doing it. Oops! Like I said, right hand is just automatic on my part.

I completely understand, and again I think your technique is interesting. I mention in this video on Al that most people are on "autopilot" when they're playing and not totally aware of the motions they're making. That's probably the case in Al's technique as well. Looking at the motions people like you learn when they're not thinking about it is how we have learned what we know about technique. In this regard the pulloff / sweeping aspect is a superficial observation. The more interesting question is what does your motion look like in terms of the path it is following. Meaning, is it moving along a diagonal or a semicircle when viewed down the strings? Only because the wrist has a unique ability to do these different kinds of motion, and that's what allows players to get over the string in both directions when using wrist technique. I suspect that at least some of the time you may be doing the double escape (i.e. semicircle) motion, which is cool. If you get a chance to point your camera in that direction could be interesting to take a look at that.

Thanks for signing up. We'll probably include some notes in a future update about things like approach angle, since that affects things like pick grip. But if you have something more specific in mind in terms of a problem that needs addressing, definitely let us know on the forum.

Aha, so you watched that one. Keep us posted if that actually helps get anywhere with the motions. Your playing is already pretty great, and very wristy, so it's only a stone's throw to more mixed escape kind of stuff.

@@troygrady before I was using wrist motion for dsx picking but more forearm rotation for usx playing. Now getting more toward the same palm anchor point for both and getting to wrist based usx. Which is what you were taking about in our private session. So thanks!

Lots of approaches for this: all wrist, wrist forearm, and no adjustment at all, just play though whatever is in the way. Depends on the player / phrase.

Check out Joe Bonamassa for this technique, he's a master 2 way escape player and often plays fast licks that require 1 note per string

Thanks to you both. I've studied a bit of Bonamassa's work in regards to his style but I'll do a deeper dive into his technique as well. Currently something like the intro to RHCP's "Snow" is nightmare fuel for my escape mechanics. My forearm feels it very quickly.

Do you mean distortion of the pick edge against the string?

When we film wrist players, we often see some elbow movement alongisde the wrist, probably because the wrist can choose to move in the same plane as the elbow if it wants. This is evident in Al's fastest playing, and in the playing of players whose techniques are similar to Al's, like Andy Wood. It is possible to move only the wrist joint, but it's not because you do something to force the elbow to be stationary. It's because you simply choose to move only the wrist. However this is not something I'd really be concerned about. The reason we see the wrist and elbow operating together is because they can, and there isn't necessarily any penalty to doing this. The main thing to focus on is smoothness and tension. If you feel arm or shoulder tension when you play, that's a sign that you may not be doing the motion correctly. Experimentation is the answer, to find some way of moving that doesn't feel like it's going to burn out in a bar or two.

Yes, technically the motion is the motion, and is not really affected by the anchor point. You can use a range of arm positions from the thumb pad to the pinky pad and the downstrokes will still go up in the air. The more you turn toward the thumb, the more vertical the downstrokes will appear to go. However, the fine point is that if you ever want to play lines like 3nps scales, you will also need the upstrokes to go up in the air, and when Al does this he leans on the pinky pad so that you can make two (slightly different) diagonal motions, not just one. That being said there *are* two motions you can use when resting on the thumb pad with no pinky contact, however they are different motions than the one shown here. This is how Molly Tuttle and David Grier play scales, and we have a lesson on that approach as well. But again, that's not Al's motion, it's slightly different.

Frank Zappa used it as well

Some players are fast with finger motion, but the fastest joint we've filmed is the elbow, followed by the wrist. Unless you're in a death metal band you may not really really *need* 250bpm alternate picking speed, but it's nice to know it's actually possible and does not require Usain bolt levels of genetic gifts.

It sounds like you're asking about what we call "edge picking". It's a core component of pick attack, and it acts as a tone control. Flat is brighter, more edge is darker. However, there is no "correct" edge picking angle, and all amounts technically work. Bluegrass player, for example, often use almost no edge picking, for a flat attack, and a brighter sound.

@@troygrady Thank you for your timely response much appreciated! Keep up your smokin playing and the inventive and superior video work!

Shawn is great. I think part of the issue is that his technique is in some respects very similar to players we've already looked at like Eric Johnson, and a lot of the long-time viewers already know the "trick" to how those picking techniques work. But we'll get back to him eventually I'm sure.

Here's the long answer: Technically speaking, a downstroke escape picking motion can *only* be used to play lines where the last note on every string is a downstroke, otherwise you would contact one of the surrounding strings. Players like John McLaughlin adhere strictly to this rule, and almost every line he plays is a pattern with a downtroke as the last note on each string. He gets amazing mileage out of this. Check out his "Cherokee" solo on the Tonight show, which you can find here on RU-vid. Almost the entire thing is downstroke string changes. Al uses the same wrist motion as John, but often playes lines where the last note is an upstroke. I think there are several things happening. On many live performances you can actually hear the upstrokes hitting the next open string during string changes, which is what I call a "swipe". While this is technically a mistake, it doesn't sound too bad if the playing is synchronized, it's just a little open string noise every so often. You can get rid of that noise with palm muting and left hand muting, and lots of players do this. It's possible that Al does this some of the time and that's why we can't hear it, even though he is hitting the string. Finally, it also is possible to use a slightly different wrist motion for the upstroke string changes. The would allow the pick to get over the string. It's what players like Andy Wood and Anton Oparin do. However, since wrist motions are small, we wouldn't know if Al is doing that without filming him up close with a camera.

@@troygrady Thanks for the detailed reply Troy. Love all the work you are doing!

It's probably just the grip you're using. Are you on our forum? Show us a photo of this, we'd be interested in seeing it. There could be some subtlety we're missing in the grip interaction.

Just keepin mind that there's not an actual "slant" to Al's pick most of the time, that's the trick here. What matters is the diagonal path of the motion, where downstrokes go up in the air, not the appearance of the pick itself. That's why I generally refer to this type of motion as a "downstroke escape" motion, i.e. where the downstrokes go above the string, rather than by the appearance of the pick. As far as the tria question, it's just a question of string changes. For this motion to work, the last note on every string needs to be a downstroke. If it's not, you can use a legato note, or just pick it and hit the next string. These are all things that players do who use this motion.

@@troygrady That's how mine is, the down motion is above the strings and the up is below. I think it came from playing hybrid style for so many years. Maybe if I take a vid and post it on the cracking the code forum someone can give me some tips as far as expanding it a bit. The only problem I have with it is that it's a completely different forearm and wrist form from how I play chords. Thanks for the reply, I'll continue this on the CTC forum.

I'll be the first person to say that Cracking the Code isn't really needed everywhere. Only where there is an obvious mismatch between how many people attempt something versus how many can't do it. And even then, only if the mismatch relates to a lack of understanding of how things work. So... do most people try to learn classical and fail, the way they do with flat picking technique? If so, there might be something there. But as an outsider, honestly, most classical players look pretty similar in form and capabilities. Which is quite different, from, say, jazz players or rock players and so on.

No but that’s Al’s tune Race With Devil on Spanish highway, I’m sure there are resources for this online it’s almost a signature song for him.

They’ve sent out email updates on it.

Thanks for backing us! We're getting closer, and we have working prototypes now. You can check the Kickstarter page or our blog for more details on how it's going. But we'll get there, for sure.

I know we have that impression now. But when GNR first came out the 80s were in full swing and Slash honestly seemed to fit in fine. I mean, the playing on the first album is pretty hard core. The end of Paradise City is an all out shredfest for over a minute straight.

@@troygrady hopefully that means he qualifies for analysis. Thanks for reply.

@@troygrady he defo rests the fleshy part of the pinky side on the bridge, and the fleshy thumb part is close to touching at times too: DSX?

I hear your frustration. The best thing to do is put down the guitar and test your joint motions. Once you know your joints can move normally, then you realize that you just have to do the same thing on a guitar and it will work fine. Here's one test we like to use which you can watch here on the channel ( ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-L6PUCTaNAOw.html ). The complete set is here ( troygrady.com/primer/testing-your-motions/ ) but try the free one first and record what metronome marking you can get to. If it's way faster and smoother than your actual guitar picking, then that's good news - you have all that ability just waiting to happen.

if you are left handed you have a great adavntage in that your dominate have is doing all he hard work! if I had it to over again I would have defiantly done a lefty guitar

If you have a motion you can do that is fast and smooth on a single note, then you have what you need. That motion can probably be employed to great effect for more complex lines once you understand which escape it has. That's really the thrust of this sequence of lessons.

@@troygrady Thanks, really appreciate the tips! :) Actually, thanks to you and your videos I've been giving my guitar playing more thought than just "strumming is fun" lately, and I do think and feel that there's been some improvement too. I have to admit I really don't know much about music and playing, I took it up more seriously about 5 years ago to help negate my rheumatism a bit as my fingers felt a bit stiff, but I doubt I'll ever be a Slash or anything, but I can always dream :)

For sure, those players are the opposite of Al in the sense that the upstrokes go up in the air, which we call "USX" motion, or "upstroke escape" motion. We have interviewed Joscho Stephan and in another video in this series we look at his alternate picking motion. It's a combination of wrist and forearm, so it's a little more complicated than Al's motion, which is just wrist. In general, most Gypsy players appear to use a mix of the wrist and forearm joints.

When you say "switch strings on a downstroke", do you mean when the downstroke is the last note on the string? Because that's how this picking motion is designed to work. To play odd numbers of notes per string / upstroke string changes, lots of options exist. You can use swiping and play through the string that's in the way, or you can mix and match different joint motions to make all string changes cleanly. Here's an overview of various mix and match methods: troygrady.com/primer/picking-motion/primary-plus-secondary-motion/

@@troygrady Hey Troy! Thanks for replying. I meant to say switching on an upstroke. That's my picking kryptonite, haha. When doing so I rotate my forearm (supinate is what you would call it I believe, but my understanding of all the jargon is pretty limited so I could be wrong!) not unlike the Andy Wood example you shared on the link, but it's neither very comfortable (although it's what I attempt to do on autopilot), clean nor fast. I've been trying to figure out how to improve the technique for a while now but nothing has quite clicked so far. I think I'll be purchasing the primer to get more detailed insights, as the issue may not be the motion but perhaps how I hold or angle the pick, or something else. Thanks again Troy, your work in the field of picking is unparalleled!

They're really not similar at all, so it wouldn't be much of a "comparison", so to speak. George's picking motion is USX, which means that when you're using pure alternate picking, you can't change strings when you play a downstroke, only an upstroke. So the whole musical vocabulary adapts to this. It's more similar to what Gypsy players or Eric Johnson do. Here's an overview: troygrady.com/primer/picking-motion/dwps-economy/

@@troygrady Thanks for your help. I logged onto your site for an explanation. Contrast would be a better word than comparison Could be the reason George's runs are almost always descending and rarely ascending.