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What language do they speak in British is it British when Scotland leaves the Union and Wales leaves the Union and England wonders why are they left They're going to turn to people like you for answers and you're going to have nothing to tell them. If you want to be trusted you should get basic geography correct because in 10 years time the table will be turned.
The Greek East India Company Empire, represented by the red, blue and white colours, claims dominion over UK, Holland, France, Russia and the USA, amongst many.
@@cymrucatNot really The Scottish independence movement died with Nicola Sturgeon The Welsh independence movement is a small force I don’t understand the anger that comes from either tbh.
@@Greivs You're in the English which means you know nothing because your media doesn't allow you to know anything or you're a unionist and you want that to be true because it serves your masters interest. Either way you are objectively wrong Welsh independence numbers keep going up and Scottish independence keeps going up because the Westminster government keep defying our wishes the Israeli issue is only driving independence numbers up. Because we want to get away from your fascist imperialist b******* and the more you show that fascist imperialist b******* the more the independence numbers will go up. And when you're looking for those numbers and you can't find them you have your own country to bring because you should be fighting for your independence rather than marching to your Doom. What you see as anger is just giving a s*** something you will never understand unless you actually take responsibility for your own life rather than letting politicians and rob you and your neighbours.
Here’s one for you. The alternative of 3 lions appears in the title text. That came from Richard the Lionheart. The 3 lions were one for each of the regions he ruled - England, Normandy and Acquitaine. So even that most “English” of symbols was originally two thirds French!
Yes, they are leopards but what I remember from Uni was that it all depended on the position of the symbol. Whether they were rampant or lying down determined which animal they were.
Allied aircraft were given stripes on the wings and fuselage from D-day onward in the European theatre. At this point in the war stealth and camouflage were not important to the allies, but being downed by friendly fire was.
True and may I add that offensive forces are in less need of camouflage then defending forces and painting all Allied aircraft and vehicles Olive Green helped to identify them as Allied. Because the Germans used camouflage patterns on their vehicles and aircraft. So was it green, hold your fire. Was it is camo, fire at will. That is why the Israeli Army still wears Olive Green uniforms for those 2 reasons.
The white stripes on the wings were, I think, added in a hurry just before D Day. There were so many planes to paint they gave up being careful and added the stripes using brooms! They must have looked rough close up but did the job!
@@scottlewisparsons9551 Yes, they planned this way in advance but kept it a secret until a couple days or so before the invasion. Didn't want the Germans doing the same thing. The stripes were meant to be temporary and we're to be applied in a hurry so they were actually applied using whitewash.
@@mardiffv.8775Don't think that was quite true. In 1944 the Americans were leaving their aircraft in bare aluminum, the British used a grey/green camouflage pattern on the top surfaces and grey undersides on their day fighters and bombers. There was a joke going around the German army in 1944/45 - if you see a plane, if it's silver, it's American, if it's grey it's British. If you can't see it at all it's Luftwaffe.
My grandfather flew in WWI with the RFC, I’m only 27, so you can imagine how late he had my father; and how late my father had me - I am grateful to you for your teaching me the above about roundels and I shall always cherish it. VIVE L'ENTENTE ! 🇫🇷 🇬🇧
What Americans called the "meatball" was the hinomaru. (Perhaps this word should be capitalized.) The literal meaning of hinomaru is "the sun’s red disk". It was adopted as the standard roundel of Japan in 1918.
My dad was in the R.N. during World War II. At the beginning of the war they tended to shoot at anything with wings. I think by the end of the war things are become a bit more sophisticated, but they were still a bit trigger-happy.😁
The allies shot down their own C-47s during the Sicily landings because the pilots stupidly thought that their own troops would recognize their own aircraft. For D-Day they painted huge white stripes on all the airplanes for the same reason.
Yes, that was very interesting. It explained alot of things. I often wondered why Battle Of Britain fighters had that yellow outer ring surrounding the normal roundel. I had also noticed how it changed in 1942. The USA also chose to modify their own aircraft markings to avoid confusing them with the Japanese red sun ones.
during WW2 in the pacific, Australians painted out the red part of the rounderl on aircraft, because at a distance, the red was mor visual, the blue and white, blening with clouds and sky, and there were a few occasions of aircraft with roundels being fired on by our own side, and a few shot down. (my father was in 76 Sqn RAAF).
I find it interesting that the RAAF, RCAF, RNZAF and the SAAF roundels (Kangaroo, Maple Leaf, Kiwi, and Springbok respectively) all can trace their roots back (indirectly) to the Napoleonic Wars cockade.
Excellent video. Quite a confusing and complex history ! And I didn’t know at all about the WWI part, which was essential in the cocardes becoming such a standard !! As of the French, we always sticked to the basic 3-color one, although a low visibility version recently came up. The size of it also varied quite a bit.
I always wondered if that was based on the French round, but never actually looked it up. Pretty cool. I also wondered why the never used the Union Jack or even St. George's cross. Great video...
The Union Jack was used by the Royal Flying Core in WW1 but it was repeatedly confused for the German Iron Cross and changed to the Roundel. At least that is what I read in a history book years ago.
Aside from the fact St George's cross is England and not the UK, I imagine painting a red cross on a white background on your combat aircraft might cause some legal/ethical issues.
my Dad (RCAF WW2) considered our very similar roundels as "airborne bl**dy targets" and felt they endangered anyone flying with them on their a/c. He much preferred the monotone roundels now in common use by many countries - _"why give them some-at to shoot at?"_ RIP, Pops. Thank you for your Service.
Friendly fire was more of a problem than enemy fire back then (I don't have a time frame so yeah...), he probably has survivor bias I'd prefer being shot down by an enemy than an ally But at the end of the day, thank you for his service
But are the roundels placed over any ultra vital part of the aircraft? What would these "targets" encourage enemy forces to fire at- the outer wings and the rear of the fuselage? Not particularly near the flight crew, engine, fuel or ammunition.
I've seen pictures of British war planes in the pacific theater with a white bar added. Similar to the bars of the US design. Probably to avoid friendly fire.
Early war (BoB) the RAF (and RN?) we’re on the defensive and aircraft were painted with half black and half white undersides in an effort to prevent “friendly fire” incidents, as they went onto the offensive over Europe undersides reverted to sky/ light grey.
Good video! I'd add that the USAAF changed their roundels after Pearl Harbor, to avoid confusion with the Japanese "meatball" & it's only recently I realized the SEAC had done the same thing.
Famous tactically astute seizing of the empty Bastille prison ... The early RAF Mustangs bore some more than slght resemblance to ME-109s which tended to make things a bit difficult for their pilots.
I dearly wish the RAF and RN would at least return the red center and tail flash to the F-35s. It's really hard to imagine how that little bit of color would compromise stealth. How widespread were the white squares on either side of roundels in the Pacific?
Paint does compromise stealth. Plus, the threat of being misidentified by ground forces and fired upon is no longer a threat. Modern fighters are meant to kill from beyond visual range, making markings obsolete.
@@frankleespeaking9519 Still, national pride is a thing, and visual ID is still helpful, even if just different nations operating F-35s together (Like trying to start an identical car, it would be embarrassing to walk up to an ally's aircraft)
@@petesheppard1709 Every f35 operator has unique logos and flashings on its aircraft. If you need a red white and blue bullseye on your aircraft to keep you from taking off in the wrong one, you probably shouldn’t be a fighter pilot.
I always thought why the RAF roundel had similar colours to the French air force roundel. I got the answer today. Thanks to your video I got the answer.
Thank you so much for your wonderful videos! I've been teaching design for almost twenty years now. That subject - the WW1 markings - emerged while introducing Branding/Corporate Identity to one of my classes. In a nut shell, the Entente/Allied Forces = Round shape markings, Central Powers (Ottomans and Bulgarians included) = Square* shape markings. * German Crosses pained on square background; black cross with just white edging was not enough in battle. Ages ago I remember reading in some relevant book, that "...in battle it's rather shape than colour" I strongly agree! Keep up with the well-documented work of you all! One of the best subscriptions in RU-vid!
The early RFC was, in reality, a Gentleman’s Club. Then, about 1918, it got serious, then, with peace in sight, it became a career path for, in the main, unemployable drones, which it continued to be that Gentleman’s Club for unemployable drones until about half way through the battle for Britain, then it admitted the oinks, until peace was in sight, when it reverted to type.
Which is why they were pilots who were trained during National Service postwar. The interwar RAF was very small, but even so a goodly number of pilots were trained from non elite, although often 'middle class' backgrounds. From the mid 1930s pilot training hugely expanded as the UK rearmed. A large number of prewar pilots died in the first year of the war.
First example off the top of my head of why your post is a massive oversimplification. Edward 'Mick' Mannock. His father, though from a wealthy family was an NCO in the British army. At the time of his death Mick Mannock held the VC, DSO with two bars and MC and bar. He was credited with 61 aerial victories. He started his WWI service as a Sergeant in the RAMC before transferring to the Royal Engineers as an officer cadet. He then transferred to the Royal Flying Corps and was commissioned as a second lieutenant in August 1916. Not exactly a 'Gentleman' in the sense you appear to be using.
Chap. Of the original RFC squadrons No 1 flew balloons. The second, II (AC) Squadron, were the first to fly fixed wing aircraft. A bit of a picky point but a detail any former member of II(AC) Squadron will gladly remind you of. Now have a guess what I used to do in a former life?
Well said! As a proud ex member of II(AC) you are entirely correct. I’m very proud to have served on the oldest flying squadron in the world. Happy Christmas to you all.
So the Brittsh adopted their present roundel in WW1 to avoid friendly fire due to being confused with the German Cross. And yet the Americans moved away from theirs by adding white stripes on the sides in WW2 to avoid friendly fire due to being confused with the Japanese "meatball" roundel after a few attempts at color changes, like removing red, didn't completely solve the issue. The Americans had insisted that any RN FAA aircraft add the same strips to their roundel when they started operating in the same Pacific areas in large numbers for the same reasons, though unlike the Americans, the British dropped the side bars after the war, having only used it briefly. I've often wondered if they would have kept the side bars if they would have had to deal with the same amount of friendly fire as the Americans had earlier in the Pacific War.
Awesome and thanks: I learnt something new today! I know quite a bit about WW1 as it's one of my favorite rabbit holes, but I didn't know those bits of history on airplane markings and roundels 👍😁.
You forgot about the rnas, royal naval air service. They also served in ww1 in france. And later both services were amalgamated into the raf founded in 1918.
Very interesting history, and great presentation. It could have taken lust little further by adding that: The RAAF have a red kangaroo(what else?) instead of a red dot, similarly the RNZAF have a Kiwi, and the RCAF have Maple Leaf (again in each case, what else?)
A good point. I didn't want to lump the RAAF, RNZAF or RCAF in with the RAF too much as they really deserve their own videos. But you're right, I should probably have mentioned those interesting national variations.
during exercise RED FLAG in the US this year a journo asked a british wing commander(?) was there much competition between the Ozzies and the Poms got the reply; "not really ,but we have lot fun watching the Ozzies and the Yanks trying to out do each other"@@CalibanRising
An excellent video. Your research is impeccable. Except in the realm of the US Army Air Corp insignia. The USAAC used a similar design to the British roundel, except the middle white was in the shape of a star as on the US flag. However, when American aircraft arrived in Europe this was found confusing due to the similarity to the British roundel, so the red (outer) blue (middle) and white (inner) roundel was adopted from Feb 1918, which had been the Russian markings, but as of October 1917 they were no longer part of the conflict. The original “star” US insignia returned in 1919. Interestingly, this was only ever applied to the upper and lower wings, and never the fuselage.
One fun thing about the "bullseye" roundel is that the Russians also used a similar one, with the same colors in yet another arrangement (white center, blue middle, red outer), and when the US joined the war, the US Army Air Service adorned their aircraft with a roundel using a similar arrangement to what the Russians had used (the Russians had dipped out of the war by the time US joined in). That evolved into the roundel used by the US Army Air Forces at the start of WWII which had a blue field with a white star with a red circle at the center. Similarly to the RAF, the US ended up ditching the red dot and adding a gold border to avoid confusion with the Japanese "meatball" roundels, and also added the white horizontal crossbars seen on US roundels to this day, with low-viz monochrome versions being common.
It wasn't just the Royal Flying Corps in WWI - the Royal Naval Air Service was heavily involved as well. The RAF was actually formed by merging the RFC and the RNAS together. Which went well...
Its also worth noting that during WW2, the colours on the RAF Roundels were made a lot duller and darker than they were prewar and post war. The blue is very dark, and the red is in fact nearly brown! Even the yellow has quite an orange tint. One thing not mentioned is the Fin Flash - the stripes on the tail fin! I have been researching the actual colours as I want to put a full size aircraft into WW2 - style camouflage...
The low visibility roundel was used on the V-bomber fleet as it was less likely to absorb heat from a nuclear explosion which us why the bombers in the early days were painted in anti-flash white.
I wonder why the germans didn't use black white and red (or the various state cockades like blue and white for Bavaria) for their aircraft too. I mean german cap badges sported cockades since the 1860s or so. But probably for the very same reason that colours are not distinctive enough but a cross is
Genuinely didn't know that, I'm more Naval history. Though it's on brand for the British to knick something and then forever it be known as a British thing. I also never knew we changed the roundel so much 👍
I was just a joke that is a tribute to the United States bailing England and the rest of your account in world War 1. Then repeated the process more so in world War II. Red white and blue and everything. Never knew the origins thanks for sharing.
Interestingly, at 06:00 we see an early US roundel being very similar to one of Imperial Russian Air Service - yet another WW1 ally. But tail insignia differ.
Lovely, spot on. Nice to see some appreciation of the roundel, in all it's variations. I note that some aircraft seemed to have carried anachronistic or out-of-date roundels at various times in the early war years - much the same as some squadrons arranged their aircraft and squadron codes differently or in unusual sizes, so a roundel from one squadron to another might be a different size for the same type of aircraft. So it looks like there was a bit of squadron individuality as far as roundel regulations were concerned. - Maybe that explains the remarkable Spitfire MkIX flying with bizarrely-proportioned 'Type 2' upper-surface roundels on its wings? (MH434, squadron code ZD, aircraft code B). Google it; it's really weird.
Who would have thought. My Great Uncle flew a Sopwith Camel during the Great War. He was bearly over 5 feet tall which he told me was one of the reasons he got the job.
They would not have used the 3 lions/leopards in any case, but the Cross of St George. However the Cross of St George might be mistaken for the German Cross and so the roundel was substituted instead.
Interestingly, Yugoslav roundelle has the origin in British one. In WW2 there were two squadrons of BAF staffed by Yugoslav pilots and their task was support of Yugoslav partisans and escort over Yugoslavia. To distinguish themselves from other RAF units and to be recognizable to the partisans, they painted a red star over the RAF roundelle. It caught on and remainded practically the same till the end of Yugoslavia. It was practically a cross between the markings of two countries that gave them planes, UK and Soviet Union.
I knew we took the french roundel and swapped it a round (No pun intended) However I didn't know it was because from a distance the red cross in the union flag looked like it may be the German cross . I thought it was just easier and quicker for the ground crew to sort out . Either way the markings didn't all ways help , they could hinder . Incessant flying over your own ground troops p*ssed poor old Tommy off because it alerted Fritz to their positions and pot shots were known to be taken
Around 1960/early 1970 the Ops Officer of the 11th ACR Air Cav Scout platoon had roundels painted on the sides of the OH-6 (Loach) choppers used by the scouts. He wasn't trying to copy the RAF or RAAF roundel, he just wanted something similar, something different to other Army aircraft. When I was assigned as an OH-6 pilot I was surprised to see what I thought were RAF roundels on the OH-6 that came to pick me up. Most of the pilots thought target and not RAF when they saw them. Most of or work was at tree top level and yes, we joked about having targets painted on the sides. But the reality is that most of the people shooting at us were not trying to aim that precisely. The other insignia on some of the OH-6s was the Zig-Zag man which in a way was the better choice for that time and place. Though the dopers, and there were a few, were never allowed anywhere near the aircraft. The irony is that the one insignia the Army was not allowed to use was the star and bar national ensign used by the other services. The Army then and still wants everything painted a standard shade of drab. The words United States Army in black was officially the only allowable option. The words are hard to read at a distance, but I doubt that anyone was confused.
