Raising a Copper Vessel, Start by Sinking 

Thank You Matt

Lindas palabras y dices toda la verdad !!!

Thanks for watching.

It's one thing to make a small bowl and entirely another to make something as large as a sink. Try a small piece first and see if you can do it. I think there are videos of some Mexicans making large pieces like sinks on RU-vid that will give you an idea of how to handle large pieces of copper. Thanks for watching and good luck with your project.

A viewer recommended www.riogrande.com/category/metals/base-metals/copper, but they only have 3"&6". 18 gague as their biggest and it's labled as half hard? Around 15$ per

Thanks for watching!

What was the school?

It was called Vale Technical Institute. Located in Southwestern Pennsylvania. The problem is I’m so old now I really can’t recall if it was the thumb or the index finger. Try one then the other. You’ll know instantly the difference in control.

lol

John Di Francisco Sigh, why didn’t we have that at camp? So much time wasted not knowing. You were blessd.

Some hardware stores carry sheets of copper but you can also go to places like riogrande.com & search for copper. Usually if you live in a fair sized city, 20k+, you will have metal supply shops that have a good selection to choose from.

Please see my reply directly below, thanks for watching!

I used a wood gouge, which is a chisel with a bend in it, and a mallet to make a rough shaped bowl and then used a convex faced hammer to smooth it oit a little. The depression smooths out as you use it to sink vessels. Thanks for watching.

I have not worked with steel but other people have and used similar techniques. You should try with a smaller piece of steel first. I'm not sure about annealing the metal. You might find a blacksmith as there are many steel alloys and you'll probably get a better answer. Thanks for watching.

I was going to use a pre-annealed .025" sheet of 4130, so it should be soft enough to work hopefully. Thanks for the response!

Thanks for the message. I don't know what Kojiri is so I'll look it up. I keep brushing up against blacksmiths and need some of the basic skills to make tools that I use in silversmith work. I have great admiration for the Iron working blacksmiths, the precision and demands for making multiples has me enthralled and then there's the Damascus steel and knife makers. . . Hope you are enjoying yourself. If you need some chased decorative work keep me in mind. Take care, Sage

***** I mostly make edged tools. Few knifes, plane irons, chisels, drawknifes and such. Some unusual stuff too, like a bent 'saya nomi' chisel, or a 'sen' which is basically a drawknife for use on steel. Also stuff like punches, fire starting steels. All that's pretty simple, since I've been doing it for a year now, and don't even own a proper anvil as prices here in europe are enormous(400$ for a beat up 100lb? Not for a college student for sure). I wouldn't call myself a blacksmith, since I don't have much experience, but creating either beautiful or useful items is a thrill, as you know. I needed to make a scabbard, so I had to plane some wood - I built a hand plane and forged an iron for it. Needed to chisel out a cavity in the scabbard, forged a saya nomi, and so on. I love how I find projects inside projects. First draw knife I forged was for that scabbard too. As for the kojiri, look for the fish hook type ones. Probably easy to make if you have a punch and die, but it's not worth making them, since it's one job, so I decided to explore rasing and sinking. Even if I won't make that piece, I'll learn something new. And if it'll work with thin mild steel... well, I've got some of it stashed in my workshop :) Take care, R.

Ah, also one more thing I forgot to write. You said that you want to pick up some blacksmithing skills. While I'm not a greatly experienced in blacksmithing, feel free to ask anything you might want to know. I do simple stuff, but still, first hand experience is gold. I had to spend months to figure out why my forge wasn't working. Somebody who actually did this would go "hey, you need more pressure and a bigger firepot" and hey presto : ) That being said, I won't be able to help you with propane forges, but bituminous coal, anthracite, charcoal, feel free to drop me a PM. Same things about basic steel, heat treatment and tools. Sadly I won't be there to help you in person, but I can tell you who will be. :) Raph.

+Benjamin This question is answered below, See barronredneck _Mallet and gouge, (curved chisel). The depression does not have to be perfectly smooth. Use will flatten any little irregularities. Thanks for watching!

symbols are brass and are formed by what is called spinning. The brass is forced into shape on a lathe. Your not going to get a symbol tone from sheet copper.

The copper I buy is soft to begin with. You may have to anneal if the metal is not working for you like it does in this video. You will have to anneal after this initial phase and all after all subsequent rounds. Thanks for watching.

+barronredneck _Mallet and gouge, (curved chisel). The depression does not have to be perfectly smooth. Use will flatten any little irregularities. Thanks for watching!

David Gibbings 20 gauge I’d recommend. Otherwise you’d be annealing very often.

Julia Macdonald thank you ,it’s difficult to see what thickness is needed I’ve pin holed my first one trying about 2 millimetres Thick so far , I guess practice more and maybe get some better hammers🙂

Please read the comment below. I get the copper from Metalliferous online. Thanks for watching.

Your use of a mallet is fine, the hammer will not thin the metal unless it is struck onto a metal base, that's why I am using a stump. Thanks for watching.

Yes, you can, start with a smaller disk, say 2.5 - 3 inches. Be advised that working that small is difficult. You will need a smaller diameter stake for raising and a small flat top stake to set the base. I have done a few small cups and they are difficult to hold while hammering, if you are making a short glass it might be more useful to do it in silver. Good luck and thank you for watching.

Hi Greg, without pictures I can't really say what is happening. If I could see the cup you're working on I will be able to suggest something. There are too many variables from the stake and hammer to the force you use to strike the metal. Also the angle you hold while striking, beginners often have difficulty to raise and close the diameter because they are not yet aware of how to hold the cup on the stake, it will take about three cups to get the movement, angle and striking coordinated. If you could send a photo I might be able to suggest something more specific.

I don't know how to insert a photo into this comment section, but I can tell you I gave up on the cup in this case and left it as a flared bowl, wide flutes at the top and flame painted it.

you can send me email, other viewers have found my address, I also have facebook and instagram, I don't want to post it here as there would be too many requests...

Have you tried Metalliferous online? It is often less expensive to buy sheet and cut the circles you need. I find that I am doing that more and more because I need specific diameters and finding the disks has been difficult for many years now. Good luck and thanks for watching.

I am striking in two different places as I turn the metal. Once to bend the metal and the second strike is slightly forward or inside so I don't have to advance the metal with each strike. This is my method that, for me , works very well. You will notice that I am always moving the metal especially on the second round from the center. I am constantly watching the reflections and aiming to flatten any high area to smooth the surface. It is subtle movement and a beginner should probably move a little more slowly and deliberately, it takes a while to figure out where the hammer is striking and in the beginning I had to be conscious of what each strike did, strike and look, strike and watch for the last mark made. As I made more vessels the striking became faster as confidence and control became a part of raising a vessel. You never stop watching and your control gets better all the time. Thanks for watching.

You can make the helmet or components that will be riveted or soldered together to make a finished helmet. You won't need a larger sink but you will need a larger piece of metal. It's too complicated to discuss here, Try looking at info about raising vessels (which is not far from the helmet shape). Thanks for watching.

I used a wood carver's gouge with a mallet, shaving little bits at a time from a circle that I had drawn on the stump. It's about half an inch deep at the center. It doesn't have to be perfect, it will even out as you use it. Thanks for watching.

***** thanks so much for letting me know! My Father has a router and we were going to try using it as per Ganoksin - but I really appreciate your insight!

Juliette, regarding the beads on my latest blog post, yes--they are translucent Premo clay with oil paint. All my polymer pieces are surface-colored. Say "hello" to Nevada City for me--I love that little town!

bonnybrookmuggsy Thanks so much! They are gorgeous beads! Nevada City says 'Hello!!" to you :)

I used a wood carving gouge and a mallet. The depression is cut and then finished by hammering with a convex faced hammer. The last step is not so necessary because the depression will get smoothed out as you use it . Thanks for watching.

@@Ceropegia wow thanks man, this was the best tutorial on rasing copper !

You are asking a question without a photo or video. I cannot see what you mean by "crimp" , its size and location on the piece. I cannot help without seeing something. make a short video with your phone where and how large it is on your work and post it on Instagram or YT. Then I can help or advise what to do. Thanks for watching.

@@CeropegiaHey thanks so much. I didn’t know you would accept photos or video. I’ll try and get one to you soon.

After you know what you are doing, the rhythm builds as you are moving the copper and striking in coordinated movements. Everyone will strike to their own rhythm and depending on what they are doing there will be breaks as decisions are being made constantly. Thanks for watching.

All I did was to polish it so that it would not add texture or marks on my work. Thanks for watching.

+Tanya McCormick This was awhile ago, I was using 18 for most of my work early on but this could be 20 as I use 20 for all but large pieces now. Thanks for watching!

+Sage Reynolds, Wonderful thank you. I also want to say that this is a great series of video tutorials, I am a copper jewellery designer and have watched several videos on techniques and I find yours very insightful and easy to follow. Great Job! I can't wait to explore the rest of your videos

Thank you!Tanya McCormick

Please read the first comment below. Thanks for watching.

The Ball Peen end of the hammer is flattened a little. If it was a true ball shape the dent would be much smaller, this can also be done with a convex shaped raising hammer but I didn't have one at that time. Thanks for your careful watching.

+Math.S The curve and depth of the depression is more important than the actual diameter. You want something that is near the size of the piece you are working on and not to deep for starting and if you are smoothing out you need a hammer or mallet with a convex face and a depression that is close to the final curvature of the bowl. It all depends on whether you are raising a vessel or making a shallower bowl, doing it a few times and trying different depressions will answer a lot of your questions. Thanks for watching!

thanks i have allready maked two and it worked

If you follow what I do in the video , working from the outside edge you should be able to get it going. It won't be very deep until you start to raise it. Thanks for watching.

@@Ceropegia my hammer was the issue I was having!

Yes there are many tools to use doing this; this video was made in my early days. When doing silver I used a bossing mallet, sometimes I need the extra weight of the ball peen hammer. Being done in a wooden depression there is no thinning of the metal regardless of the hitting device. I think it is preference and circumstance (material) for this stage of making a vessel. I appreciste your comment, Thanks for watching.

@@Ceropegia Extra weight? Bigger mallet. I make my own mallets and the choice of timbers for the head and the size of the head comes into it. Being in Australia we are 'blessed ?' with a vast array of 'hard as all fuck' timbers easily sourced. In fact most of the timbers I use come from my own back yard.

+Erika Heinen You could probably get some thiong this large close to a hemisphere, but you will need a deeper and more perfect depression. To get a true half globe shape you should do some raising and careful planishing. Thanks for watching!

+Sage Reynolds here's the thing, I'm in art metals 101 at my school and I don't know much yet. x.x I'm not sure if my teacher would allow me to do what you demonstrated. She only showed us hemisphering, sinking, and a couple of other forming techniques. I want to make a pumpkin and she said it'll be very challenging, but I want to try to do it! I want the top of the pumpkin, where the stump is to come off, so the entire thing acts as a box with a removable lid. So I'm kind of trying to form a little cauldron type of shape.

What you want to do is challenging. Especially making the top and bottom work together. Try to raise a few simple vessels first and get to know your hammers and what they will do. I made a silver teapot body that is more of a topless sphere shape, it took me ten weeks from a 7" disk. Look at some of the shapes in my video on metal work projects 2012 and you will also get an idea of what ribs and gadrooning look like on smaller bowl. There are also still shots on my Face book pages, and in the Face Book Silversmith Gallery. Good luck, take your time a keep that goal in mind.

floopy312 Copper is very pliable but work hardens and can become hard and brittle as it is hammered/bent. This is fixed by annealing the metal, which is to bring it up to a certain range of temperature which will cause the structure of the metal to relax, softening it.

Copper, being a pure metal will take more hammering than an alloy like sterling silver. I am using a ball peen hammer on the copper over a wooden surface, the ball peen spreads the pressure in the metal wider than a raising hammer so the metal is not truly work hardened and I can make a second round. Using a raising hammer on a metal stake hardens the metal more and annealing is necessary to continue raising, however you can go lightly over the surface with a planishing hammer to flatten some areas where the metal may have bunched up, especially the edges before annealing. Thanks for watching.

Metal spinning is another trade, I don't have a lathe or access to one. So the answer is no. Also, my needs are for one of a kind cups and bowls , not multiples of the same thing ( even if I do make sets of 5 and pairs of cups) which would make sense for spinning. Thanks for watching.

@@Ceropegia I'm sure you could make one of a kind objects by spinning but was just wondering if you ever dabbled in it, keep up the good work

Thank you for the warning. I have been doing it this way for about 12 years and have never had that happen in more than 100 vessels and cups. I'm working primarily 18 and 20 gauge metal and that may have something to do with my work not splitting. My scores are very light, just enough to see. When I am raising and need guide lines, I do use a compass and pencil or sharpie on the sides of the vessel. Thanks for watching.

I'am English but live in France and went on an educational course for aircraft aluminium work. We were taught to shrink over a ball rather than in a hollow and for me it seems to be more precise.However, the French don't seem to know about electrolitic reactions. They use pencils and felt tip pens on the aluminium and DO NOT understand the consequences. I once saw a photo of the fuselage of a deHavilland Comet that had depressurised after 20 years of service because someone had drawn a circle on the fuselage with a pencil during construction. The result was a very nice round hole. Not one of the French people I contacted,Airbus,SOCATA or the instructors who taught me had any idea of this .I have a very good friend who is an engineer at Rolls Royce who told me that pencils are not allowed in British aircraft factories for this very reason. When will others learn.

John, The leather sand bag will not give a consistent surface and curve against which to strike. The goal at this point is to stretch the metal a little and give it a uniform shape from which to raise the beaker. Since the beaker will go through 5-7 annealing-raising cycles hammer marks, at this point, are not an issue.

Hi Sage Thanks for answering my question because I found your video interesting because I was trained to do copper work many years ago in my apprenticeship. We used hard leather sandbags, which you initially form a depression to work in. We were trained to use a round domed mallet to raise the copper disc into a bowl, beaker, goblet etc.

In the title it says "Sinking" , Thanks for watching.

Did you not hear him say, at the end of the video, he was going to anneal it?

The first marks left a hollow space (kind of triangle), the divider adjustment put a mark into the center of that space from which I could determine the center. Thanks for the question and thanks for watching.

This is only the first step in raising a cup. The center is needed for raising on a stake and for setting the base. If I was making a bowl it wouldn't be necessary unless I planned to chase a design and put in rims and borders. Thanks for watching.

@@Ceropegia I was wondering too, because the marked center was facing away from you. Beautiful piece of copper. Isn't Copper expensive now? I kind of want to have a fork and spoon made by a metalsmith or whoever does that sort of thing. I have this image in my head.

The first thing is to always mark the center. It’s easier to mark when it is a flat disc.

The copper was not thinned by sinking in the stump. And as the cup was raised on an iron stake, the metal remained 18 gauge all over. If metal is moved properly it will not be thinned. thanks for watching.

Sage Reynolds Thank you for your reply. Sometimes, the sides actually thicken. If you like, I will give you my email and exchange photos.

Just polish it! I think he re profiled the pien for the end result.