Making things wider without mono compatibility problems... Isn't that what we all want? Well...... Check sideminder here: www.raisingjak... Support me by becoming a Patron: / whiteseastudio Check the studio: whiteseastudio...
During the masterclass of Andrew Scheps on AES 2017 somebody had noticed that he has some stereo compatibility or phase issues. Andrew Scheps said: "Yeah, so what?)"
@@public_hell you can lose a lot of loudness, and even harmonic information due to notch filtering by translating into mono. Considering dance music is bass heavy, and being played at loud volumes is even more bass-focussed, keeping the mid-freqs in mono is the difference between having mids and just having a kick and hi hat playing. If you are mixing for a club, check in mono. Rock mixing doesn't mix for the club, and that's fine.
AboveEmAllProduction it’s not a stereo widening plugin.... it’s used to make a wide stereo image mono compatible... it stops the stereo image from going out of phase in mono
Most EDM clubs have a stereo to mono converter, and use mono output to the crowd. As such, in the club it isn't a problem to not make two mixes, one stereo and one mono. Also, and I hate telling audio Engineers this, but your average person and even your average artist will not be able to tell the difference between some and no phase cancellation within EDM tracks. There is simply too little signal in breakdowns to cause phase cancellation, and there is so much background effects and white noise we add to drops that phase cancellation isn't noticeable within them.
Most people are listening on ear buds or headphones, which are stereo. even if they’re listening to the built in speakers on the phone it’s probably still stereo as well. I think the last 3 Apple Phone releases have stereo speakers. I don’t think many people are actually listening in mono majority of the time but it still doesn’t hurt to make it mono compatible of course. I don’t think it’s AS important as so many people make it out to be. As long as ur not totally overdoing it you should be fine. I tend to prefer mixing for headphone users, because like I said, most people are listening on headphones or earbuds. I ride the train in the city everyday and literally every single person is wearing mostly earbuds but sometimes over the ear headphones as well. Unless you want to annoy everyone around you with your phone speakers, which doesn’t occur that often, then most people are using headphones and earbuds. But like I said, even the phone speakers nowadays are in stereo. So yeah, I prefer to mix for headphone users and make my mixes wide, but obviously just don’t overdue it and should be fine. Oh and also, a lot modern cars have hi fi surround sound systems with a super wide image and of course everyone’s going to be listening to music in their cars as well. I find it extremely important to check my mixes in cars. Listening in mono is quickly becoming a thing of the past and we’re almost at the point where it’s totally not going to matter anymore and there’s honestly no point to even think about it, at least in my perspective. The future isn’t mono, it’s actually quickly turning to surround. You’d be surprised how many car sound systems are in surround. I invest a lot more than most people into stereo imaging/widening plugins as well as multichannel/surround plugins for this very reason. If you don’t need them now, you’ll definitely need them in the future. And it’s best to learn now and get ahead of the curve than to learn later and get left behind. Not to mention also pretty much all video games are surround sound as well, and that’s a big industry influencing a lot of things, even music. A lot of people could be listening on their surround sound gaming headphones or sound systems at home either through their PC’s or gaming consoles. Spotify does quite well with gaming consoles.
But you're not correct. Phone speakers are basically mono because they are so close together. TVs are mono for the same reason since the speakers are almost side by side mosttt of the time. The really BIG deal breaker for not ensuring mono compatibility though is clubs and sounds systems for parties. They are ALWAYS mono. Imagine someone in a club and the system is stereo.. That means someone on one side of the club or party will hear only some or MORE or one sound?... Madness. The guy in VIP needs to hear the music the same as the girl on the dancefloor etc.. So unless you want your mix to not be relevant on a TV, or a party or any club then sure destroy the mono. You an still have nice stereo width AND surround AND have mono compatibility if you mix correctly.
@@Yrushmusic That is true, but i'm on board with Koda Keller. First off, if you are listening on phone speakers you really don't hear anything anyway. If you are in a loud club, I'm sure no one will hear or care that you lost a tiny bit of a certain sound because it was summed to mono. Most tv speakers are a joke as well, and if there are two actual speakers there then it is not mono and the problem will be... well not as bad as if it was single speaker. I say give headphone and hifi people the best experience, the others won't mind i'm sure.
Yrushmusic that’s why I said don’t overdue it and you should be fine. I’m just saying it’s not something I think people should worry about so much and let it ruin their creativity. I’m just saying in the future mono won’t be nearly as prevalent as it is today as many sound systems even on tvs and phones are learning ways to make stereo or surround sound wider than it really is even with the speakers being so close to together. You’d be pretty surprised how good the built in stereo speakers sound on the new Apple phones, because I was. And especially all the new TV’s sound fuckin great with their built in speakers. a lot of them incorporate Dolby atmos somehow. I know obviously it’s not as good as real surround speakers and a sub and all that, but I was very surprised at just how wide and great sounding a lot of the new built in tv speakers sound. Then again, how many people are honestly listening to music on their built in tv speakers anyways? But either way, my main point is as long as ur not overdoing it you should be fine.
Joakim my point isn’t that you shouldn’t watch your mono compatibility in your mixes. I understand that it’s important. I’m just saying it’s not really AS Important as people make it out to be. Sure there’s a lot of mono outputs out there but I’m just saying the direction that most companies are headed in the future isn’t mono and a lot of consumers are becoming far more knowledgeable about sound and most listeners tend to prefer either stereo or surround outputs. And honestly, how many people are watching cable television nowadays and what does that have to do with music? People aren’t listening to music on cable television. 99% of the time people are listening to music in their cars, on earbuds or headphones through their phones, sometimes speakers, which may be mono, but more than likely will be in stereo, and sometimes even surround. Yes I understand that club and PA systems are in mono but that doesn’t mean you should limit your creativity to only making ur mix sound good in mono and let it destroy your stereo and width creativity. I personally think it’s important to make your mix sound more interesting for stereo listeners. Like I said, as long as your not overdoing it you should be fine. Losing a tiny bit of information here and there for people listening in mono like in clubs and stuff like that isn’t going to be the end of the world, and they likely wouldn’t even notice anyways since most clubs are so bass heavy and sound crazy anyways lol. As long as ur bass is in mono you’re probably good to go. But if you’re going so crazy with your mix that you can’t even hear certain important things in mono then you probably shouldn’t be an engineer anyways.
Your thumb nail makes it look like a fail when it's obviously a total win... but that's what got me interested in watching the video... and the video sold the plugin to me!
I have this plugin and it works good keeping a wide stereo image mono compatible... it actually works... a lot of vst synths sound crap in mono ... this plugin fixes that 💯🤟🏻🤟🏻🤟🏻
I like the plugin:) I use wideners both for width, their sound, and to phase out the middle from stereo guitars for example to a vocal. This is good in the 1st scenario
I was really starting to miss Sandstorm! I think he's done a great job with this, but not a lot of people are going to need it. But, if you are going to use a stereo widener, this would definitely be the one to use!
If you need mono compatibility while you are mixing you also could make a fx channel get Voicode by merging technologies and send your track to that fx or buss channel and you cant get a negative correlation anymore. But should send about -6 to -3 otherwise center image to loud...... will check this plugin as looks interesting to check on some piano node’s which tends to go out of phase or being to wide. Cheers.
Good snake oil episode...the issue is if ya realize the mix and master is well too phased after the fact its really kind of too late... so perhaps a good plugin for a repair to a stem that is fixed (unrepairable), but couldn't a revision be done in the mix?... anyhoo,. Its so difficult to have a mix that hits every single bullet point , I feel like it could be one of those tools that might work on a random whacked stem... I find Izotopes built in multi band dynamic shapers can help here also while maintaining the transients.
Can you do a video on “in the box” mixing and mastering (kind of like Joey Sturgis’s Nail The Mix)? And possibly use examples of less than perfect tracks? I feel a lot of the content you show in your videos are electronic based and to some extent the samples are already somewhat processed. Maybe explain how you’d go about mixing drums/guitar/bass/vocals that were tracked with mics in a less than ideal room, etc. I say “in the box” because most of us at home recording artists aren’t going to have access to outboard gear and will be limited to plug-ins.
Ever since Im using 2 monitor sets, Ive got a Big Knob on my desk, which has a mono button. I use that button constantly when mixing, everytime I do something that might have some effect on phase. Ive been looking for a good widerner, for a while. Right now Im using the iZotope, but I'll have a look at this plugin, it seems very interesting
Is it? It would be advertised as something different, like adjust the phase... But limit 'width' not volume. Otherwise not that useful. Mcompressor does that... Is better not just to lower the side, you lose balance. There is a Reaper stock plugin that MOVES THE SIDES INTO THE MIDS...? Simple mid/side decoding i guess, you phase rotate one side I am guessing as side=both channels inverted phase between them, opposite for left/right Of course, that would be better at mixing by 100000% on each part.
Did you tried out the PAZ Analyzer from Waves? It has an very usefull and understandable Correlation Meter build in. It´s very easy to see where youre Sound is in the Stereo-field there.
I completely stopped using stereo widening tools except to make bass mono and my mixes have only sounded better since It sounds awesome on a piano backing a guitar until you switch to mono and it collapses completely, so I might actually consider buying this plugin if only for that one purpose
Ive havent been much into stereo imaging tools, but instead regular ms/lr eqing. I can sculpt it way i like, but admit that when i do so im checking into phase meter(vectorscope?) in digicheck tool that comes with rme cards. I learnt it this way, i've thought stereo spread tools were to fool money from people that dont know this technique 😄 but one free phase meter id recommend is the one flux makes, check it out
I sometimes like to experiment with delay's and get in phase problemens, this is maybe a good thing to have in the master bus and stay phase problem free?
so you gave this plug in a fair shake, even though you know going in, anyone who knows how to mix, doesn't need any sort of sterio widening, its for people that want a quick fix for a problem they prob caused themselves by over doing everything
I like the idea of the plugin but i dont think a wide mix is important or sounds better then a mix which is more centered. I even prefer a centered mix. As long as each element in the mix has its own space.
@@gottreich making the amount of width more consistent through out each sound, although I dont know why you wouldnt just use a comp on the side signál for that
I mean as always there are creative aspects while mixing. But for me only a full mix or at least a bus (i.e. drums) has enough stereo-dynamic (i mean right left changing) information to use that plugin. A piano or a lead synth is not dynamic enough to go and use that plugin on it. A release has to have information to work with. Maybe its useful for a pingpong delay but here is the possibility to go too far to the sides and sound weird.
I think there's an exception for phase cancelling instruments on the left and right channel, which would be M/S micing of an acoustic guitar. Since there's still a centered signal, it sounds super wide when played in stereo and the guitar does not go away, when summed to mono. Any other opinions?
If its in balance and mics are close enough as you dont want massive changes across systems. But i know many producers wouldnt touch m/s. Still it would be in the green of the phase coherence meter because youd hopefully put more of the mid mic in there... Its kind of a blended sound just like any stereo source you can decode to mid/side.
WHERE IS THE PAYOFF?!?!? Sorry for yelling. You did not say whether it is Snake Oil or not. I'm assuming not, even though you say you don't need it. I'm going to get it right now just because it looks like a cool toy. DrMS from Mathew Lane is my current champion of this kind of plugin, it can both break and fix correlation depending on how you use it. I have piano virtual instruments that sound awful when listened to in mono, even if it is the only thing playing. DrMS can tame its correlation to both sound good and play nice with mono compatibility. But reading a bit of the manual or watching a video is necessary to understand what the four main knobs do.
bx_solo is just a mid-side matrix. Just like Voxengo MSED. A completely different thing is SideMinder. This is a relative side limiter that only works with a negative correlation.
Holy Shit, look at this, your taking time out to read the info on the plugin?!?!?!? Not just playhing with it for two seconds and then ripping it sheds?!?!? wHa?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
will be cool to hear your opinion regarding this brand www.dmgaudio.com i think their mb limiter really sounds sweet :) but they say that equalizers are also superb....etc. thanks for creating this fun channel :) best wishes !!!
