Raising Monarchs - How To Euthanize (Help The Monarch Butterfly) 

I appreciate that. You hope the message is clear, but by nature, I'm skeptical. So such feedback is appreciated!

Tears are only evidence of being human. When my Emperor Scorpion, Copernicus passed, I shed tears. Tears only can occur if you cared.

You mentioned you kept them in your garage. Did they not need sun??

Sorry that this had to happen, Mya, but I'm glad that this video could help make the process somewhat more bearable. Thank you for continuing to raise them and help these guys out!

How did a 10yr old write this lol?

@@spikesecho724 her parent wrote it most likely but I wouldn’t put it past a very educated 10 year old lol

Thanks! How is this year comparing to last year?

Didn't want the shirt to come off as arrogant, but must admit, it was a gift that I thought was pretty darn awesome when I opened up the package!

MrLundScience Love it! Similar too, “Do it the way your mother told you” but better. 😂

MrLundScience each video i anticipate what his T-shirts are of

That's great to hear! Are you bleach treating your eggs/leaves, or is this just some good fortune coming your way (and theirs)?

MrLundScience I bleach all containers (after using them for habitats) and leaves. I might start bleaching eggs, but something about makes me nervous.

Understandable. If that's the case, but you're still thinking about trying it out, you could start with just one or two, and see how it goes. Follow the directions completely, and it should go without a hitch. I've not had any problems with the recipe/method I provided in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oZYzzcGiZRA.html

That's both odd and interesting. I've never seen (or heard someone tell me) that they've found a cluster of Monarch eggs before. If they're Monarchs, that's a new detail I shall watch out for. If they start to grow hairs, though, they might be Tussock Moths, which also use milkweed, lay in clusters, and look similar in their first instar to a Monarch's first instar. They're pale with black faces when first out of the egg, and that's about it. Interesting to hear how it goes. Please check back a few instars from now and confirm if they get the yellow/black lines, or if they get the fuzzy black and orange mohawks!

MrLundScience will do. What confuses me is that they were pearl white when I found them and had those ridges except so tiny I had to look at them via a jewelers monocle which magnified 10 X . Then they black tipped and yes they are very cute albeit tiny. They are munching away healthily and preliminary count which was a challenge is 58. I will watch for the tell tale hairs of the Tussock moth. Keep you posted.

I’ve had a few like that!! They stayed in the habitats a bit longer, not as active, but actually ended up flying away on their own after a few days of drinking nectar & hanging out!! May just be late/slow bloomers!!

I let them try to fly around a few times in the yard & it seemed to help build their strength!

I'm glad that people seem to be understanding. It wasn't fun to make, but equipping ourselves with knowledge for how to deal with the less than fortunate circumstances might make things easier.

I am also a nurse. There can be NO LIFE without DEATH. This is not heaven on earth for us or the creatures. We need to be honest with ourselves and accept that things can and do go wrong. It is painful, but we do not live in a PRESTO world. When we go outside and see things going right it puts us in a pleasant mood, but not every day, month, or year is pleasant. That's reality.

Thought you'd be interested in the fact that I have successfully overwintered swallowtail chrysalis in the fridge - from about December (no nectar in Virginia) to spring. I used an open container with some paper towel at the bottom that I moistened slightly at first. 11 of the 12 "hatched" just fine - either in my screen cage or out in the sun. I have to warn you though that I was always afraid I was going to open the door and find I had butterflies. The chrysalis were attached to the inside of toilet paper tubes or the paper towels covering the end, and I cut the cardboard into strips so they all fit in a small yogurt container. Some were showing signs of "ripening" after all that time so proceeded to warm them up. Finally got some milkweed to come up and brought in 6 eggs yesterday.

There aren't many. The only one that Michigan might encounter would likely be an adult infested with OE, or in the case of a debilitating injury or deformation. I don't recommend euthanasia, but I don't discourage it in such cases either. It's a sensitive topic, and people requested a video to be made about the proper way to do it. I remain neutral on whether to do it or not. That's officially up to the individual.

Thank you Sharon! A tough topic, but I thought the information was worth having out there.

I don't have numbers to back up what I'm about to say, but I'm pretty certain that the mortality rate of eggs is quite high compared to caterpillars, and much higher in 1st and 2nd instar caterpillars than 3rd, 4th, and 5th. By the time a caterpillar has made it to the size it needs to be for most of us to readily find it, it's already made it over many of the hurdles. If a Monarch is going to be taken out of the game, it usually happens as an egg and we never had the chance to meet it. I've found a number of already hatched eggs on my plants with no caterpillars to be found by them. Pretty sure they were gobbled.

I'm happy to hear that things are going well! Hopefully, as a beginner, this video remains useless to you for many seasons to come!

Greetings, and thank you for adding some milkweed to the effort! Full disclosure: I'm no gardener. I'm not adept at it. When it comes to transplanting potted plants, I've had zero luck. I admit, I haven't tried it often. About three plant transplant failures occurred, and since at the same time I was having much better luck with starting from seeds, I stuck with that. One of the reasons you might not be finding much info online as far as milkweed care is because, as long as herbicides aren't affecting it, it's a pretty tenacious plant. That is, if you can get the roots to take. My failures, I think, were due to roots being damaged during transplant, or because of transplant. If this one has grown from seed in a pot, likely its roots are pretty congested within the pot, and ready to branch out. I would imagine if you provide it plenty of water these first few weeks, the roots will begin to spread and get away from each other. From there, it should be a pretty healthy plant, especially if it has some shade as you said. I wish you much luck with it!

The spores are likely not dead. They can be tenacious. As they are technically in a dormant state and don't take in energy, grow, or expel waste, an argument could be made that they aren't exactly alive when they are spores either. They are similar to seeds, in a way. That said, I know I wouldn't trust wings from an infested one. It's too easy to get some spores on the other Monarch, or in other places. If I try a transplant at some point, it won't be with wings from an OE Monarch. That said, the spores are only a problem if they get where they can be transferred to milkweed leaves, or transferred to something else that will transfer them there. So, I think if one is sanitary about it, they could still mount, spread, dry, and frame the Monarch. Otherwise, placing the Monarch in a bag and disposed of would be fine, or if you prefer, even a proper burial, though the extra over cautious guy in me would not bury it near milkweed.

I've raised only a few Swallowtails before. If you have a good food source supply, then yep, it is essentially the same as with Monarchs. The one difference is you will need to give them sticks/twigs/something to help them build their chrysalis off of. They need to mount on something that is somewhat vertical to make a silk thread that they sort of lean back from to form their chrysalis. Google some swallowtail chrysalis images to see what I mean. Provide them that, and it can go just as successfully as raising the Monarchs. I don't know, though, much about any parasites with Swallowtails, and my experience with them is quite limited. I don't know that I know much troubleshooting with them if you run into problems. Good luck with any you try to raise, though!

Tim - here is my swallowtail experience if you need it. Mr Lund - love your videos, this is my first batch of monarchs, you are super helpful. I am so happy that you are spreading all this good info! Sorry this is gonna be crazy long. I raise the swallowtail cats on food that I cut and put in water (I often use a spice jar and put foil over the top with a small hole for the plant stem.) I usually have rue and parsley. They will stay on the food until they ready for the last big watery poop when they will wander to find a place to form the chrysalis. If I have a lot of cats at different stages I put the jars in a homemade screen container. They can form a chrysalis on that, but it is a pain to have one eclose in it. To avoid that, when they are pretty big, I put them in paper coffee cups or paper oatmeal containers with paper towels fastened with rubber bands on the top - and add food. My preference is to move them again to make it easier to manage and I think they "like" darkness and "privacy" to form a chrysalis. I try to catch them after the big poop when they are done eating and before they are too committed to a "position" - usually on the side of the container, sometimes on the paper towel lid, or sometimes on a stalk of food. I use toilet paper holders (paper towel on the ends). I often put a little stick in there but they usually prefer the side, though sometimes the paper towel top. After they form a chrysalis I take off the paper towel "lid" so they can crawl out when they eclose. If they are on the paper towel I tape the paper to a piece of cardboard like the outside of toilet paper holder. They can be vertical or horizontal. But they need to be attached at their bottom. They make a sticky pad to attach. But sometimes that didn't work correctly and they need to be able to push against something to eclose. I have successfully hot glued them in that one spot- just a tiny bit of lo temp hot glue. I put the open container in a big mesh hut if I am not going to be home or if it is kind of cold outside, when it looks like it's time to eclose - the chrysalis gets transparent. Or put the open container in a hanging basket on the porch. I have had spiders kill a chrysalis (or birds) though when it is outside, so I try to minimize the time they are unprotected. Parasites? I had 2 chrysalis turn black and rot last year - for the first time. This week I had a cat - with visible white stuff on its face/head and twitching and it's "horns" were stuck extended. Took Mr Lunds advice and put it the freezer. Have not looked at it under my microscope yet. This was a first. This is a horrible season - rain every day almost, warm early in the spring then cold again. Just found my first eggs 2 weeks ago and none since. Had ten, now nine since the death. One confirmed chrysalis. I have had to supplement food in the past. Assume all herbs have been sprayed with BT even if organic. This is true for plants from a nursery or cut herbs at the store. It does wear off after say 2 weeks. On my first 6 monarchs ever!

Oh yes. Seen this before. Never been a problem. Sometimes, they act like they are ready, then decide they aren't. Want to wait a bit more. Try again. Then, nope. Change their mind. The mood has got to be just right, apparently.

This afternoon it started to go into chrysalis and got about almost 3/4 and just stopped- not sure what to make of this at all.

Not sure quite what to say. As mentioned, I've seen this behavior before, and while not "normal", it hasn't been a problem at those times. Perhaps this wanderlust and indecision does indicate some amount of something is wrong or off, and yours had more of that something than the ones I've seen doing this had. Sorry to hear that he/she didn't make it to chrysalis.

I guess I will leave it there and just see what happens. It's like a stunted chrysalis but other than size, it looks completely normal. I can even see the gold band on top.

My daughter and I started raising monarchs a few months ago. The first 4 were healthy but then parasites damaged the next 4 so we had to euthanize them..I could not believe how many tears I shed over those babies..I didn't even want to continue because it was too heartbreaking. A week ago she noticed a chrysalis in the cage, then 5 caterpillars so here we go again

You're definitely welcome!

This does work for other butterflies, yes. It's a method entomologists tend to use and seen as the more humane option (compared to chemical ones). Sorry that you're having to deal with this.

The fluid should dry and seal, almost like a scab. Here's the reality of the situation, though: If it lost too much fluid, it either won't come out and perish, or, it will come out with deformities. Another possibility is that due to the rupture, it could have gotten bacteria in it, which could also cause an infection, possibly fatal, or, possibly leading to deformities. But, those are the *worst* case scenarios. If it didn't lose too much fluid, it could still form properly, and though would have less mass than if it hadn't lost any fluid, might still be a healthy flying adult. Gotta give it that chance and see what happens. It's also okay if it continues to develop on its side, provided the rupture has dried. I wish you and this lil' guy/gal much luck! Hope it turns out well.

@@MrLundScience Thank you. I will let you know.

If the caterpillars are alive, I don't euthanize, but I quarantine. Separate them from each other as much as you can. If that needs to be three per container, then so be it, but one per container is of course optimal. And then give them the chance to make it to adults. If multiple are dying, though, that could mean various diseases. Are they turning somewhat black upon death? If so, that would be the smoking gun for NPV. You may wish to look into NPV and see what it's about if you are currently unaware of it. The chrysalides may be just fine, but again, I'd quarantine as soon as you can.

Unfortunately they all died. The ones in crystalise made it, I've successfully released 3 so far. 2 males and one females, and another female, her Proboscis stuck out wasn't sure if it developed properly. The last one has not emerged, but most likely will tomorrow. The last cat, I thought might make it didn't turn black but there was one that did turn black. I froze the dead cats, but I had a plant that had lots of eggs on them, but for some reason they didn't hatch? Could they Be infected with the OE virus? I did your bleach/water solution with the new batch (39 larva) and cleaned the leaves. I did separate 3 different enclosures, so not all get infected.

Do you suggest I throw out the plant? I'd hate for a female to lay more eggs if it has been contaminated

Eggs not hatching wouldn't be OE. OE is taken in by caterpillars. They are spores that are on the egg or the plant that mom transferred from her abdomen. OE is never inside the egg. So, not hatching isn't due to the OE. It's possible that the female laid eggs when she had not yet met a boyfriend and had them fertilized. She could have laid a clutch of duds for you. That's a possibility, but I'm sure other possibilities exist, I just don't know what they would be. When you say you did the bleach treatment with the new batch, are we talking about bleach treating the eggs, or just the leaves that are fed to the caterpillars?

If it is the plant, that would solve the issue. If it's not the plant, you'd at least have ruled out that possibility if this continues.

I would release. Even if it's near freezing or slightly below, Monarchs are able to find warmer areas. They are more hardy than we sometimes give them credit for. I'll admit, though, it's a less likely to be successful situation for it. But, if the mom laid the egg, I see that as her having already decided it for us. She "thought" that it wasn't too late. Granted, she may have been wrong, but I feel that was her decision, and is not mine.

I have tossed around the idea of not taking in caterpillars, but still do. I reconsider it often, though. What always pushes me back on the side of the fence of taking them in is that I can always keep them separate from the rest, and see if they have it or not. That allows me to somewhat take in data and get a feel for how much OE is in my area. It'll take a few hundred before I'll feel as though I have some reliable numbers (and even then, not that reliable). If a caterpillar is going to contract OE in nature, they usually get it from mom, and they have it within the first or second instar, when they are likely to stay on their "hatch leaf" on the plant.

I have not had any pupae in my garden. if it were not for my taking these caterpillars in the birds would have a field day.

Greetings Trish. Very sorry that some of this is happening. Just as an aside, some good news - OE isn't something that comes out of caterpillars. One caterpillar that has it can't transfer it to a caterpillar that doesn't. Caterpillars that eat OE spores then have their digestive juices activate the dormant OE that is in the spores. The OE then grows and multiplies within the caterpillar all the way to the chrysalis stage, and in the chrysalis stage, that's when the go back into the dormant spore form. They then are on the outside areas, mostly the abdomen, of the adults. But in all of that, OE is never released from the caterpillar, be it in their frass or otherwise. So, at least there's that. NPV, though, yep. That one can be spread. If a chrysalis is turning a yucky color, the Monarch inside is likely no longer alive. I don't wish to say that we should euthanize a "black" chrysalis, as that could cause confusion. Someone new to this might become worried that the chrysalis that is naturally becoming transparent and showing the soon to be emerged adult is "turning black" and could make a rash decision. But, if a chrysalis is turning an off color, I'd give it some time still, just to be sure. I've had a chrysalis before that was mostly green, but also had a small patch of orangish-green show up about 5 days before eclosure. I was concerned, but before eclosing, it turned the normal transparent, and a healthy butterfly emerged. I hope that helps in some way.

@@MrLundScience Thank you! I am careful to make sure a dark chrysalis is totally black, as I can clearly see the Monarch wings when it is about to eclose. So beautiful!

Sorry to hear that this was the case. Better equipped than not, though. Sorry you had to use this procedure.

Me too, but that's the ugly part of animal husbandry. Every child that gets a puppy is the teen that has to put one down. Bittersweet, but hopefully everyone is better for the experience. Thanks again for your tutorials.

Most definitely. I'm past the thinking part, too, for the most part. I mean, there's always thinking to be done, I suppose. But, I'm ready to try it out, when the situation arises. However, I really hope the situation doesn't arise! I have only about 20 Monarchs left this season. It's a pretty good chance that none will need any such transplant. I'm still looking into some details, though, and they're tough to find. Like, how significant is it if you were to transplant male wings onto a female, and vice versa? My guess is, this could matter a lot, specifically if attaching male wings with the scent glands onto a female. Is it possible this would deter males from mating with her? Is it possible other males would try to force her out of territory? Important details I want to know first. But, I do see a wing repair, and a wing transplant video in my future, though likely next year.

That would be Part 4.

MrLundScience Thank you very much. Sorry I asked again before I saw this response.

Update: I decided to play God and euthanize. Their pain is over. Sad moment.

Yeah, NPV can be a brutal outbreak, and the chances are, one in a container that has it already spread it to others long before any signs were there. Still, what you did is commendable. Just got to give them that chance, right? Very sorry that this happened.

While it seems like there may be an added struggle to its life, if it can fly, it can be successful. This would definitely be a situation for release, with an extra helping of those well wishes and good lucks.

MrLundScience okay. I did release it because I figured like you said if it can fly it would be okay. It was a strong flier.

Oh yes. When it's time to make the chrysalis, they tend to get a pretty strong wander lust. For sure, it'll go exploring.

MrLundScience thank you !!

IG: @MrLundScience

The more we know details about the world around us, the more interesting everything gets to become.

Thanks David!

I've explored this option recently, and even was going so far as to trying to decide what materials would be lightweight and ideal for recreating a wing. But, during that searching for knowledge, I found a page stating that studies have been done that show the visible difference in the Monarch leads to being noticed more by predators. I want to find the actual study to learn more (and verify that the internet page was correct in their reporting) before I discard this idea. Or, it could lead me to wanting to find a way to make it visibly appear like a true wing. Much work to do, but I think this might be a problem I'll have to try and solve next summer.

MrLundScience Yeah i get what you’re saying i hope we can do it, we could tackle this together if you want. And to hide it from predators would be to paint it the same color and draw the markings also. How to operate and put the wings on is like you said needs a lot of research.

Both claims are worthy of debate. ;-)

Thank you for teaching us how how to raise Monarchs. My caterpillars just started to J hang. We don’t want to miss them chrysalis. How long does it take usually from this point

Typically, it's a tad short of 24 hours. Fair warning: Though going into chrysalis full can be around 6 - 8 minutes, that goes by quick when not looking. When the head antennae look somewhat shriveled and limp, going into chrysalis will happen within the hour, usually.

MrLundScience now I feel silly. I’ve been staying close to home. Second question...when do they stop laying eggs in zone 4b (Minnesota)

Definitely not my intention to have anyone feel silly. Asking questions is just a brain wanting to know more. Who can't love that? And understand, when I was first doing this, I was equally without answers to the same questions. We all start somewhere. As for when they stop laying eggs, tough to exactly say. I'm not well versed in plant/gardening zones, but Minnesota and Michigan share essentially the same latitude. In Michigan, I've found eggs as late as mid September. HOWEVER, people should understand that a late late season female Monarch still has the drive to lay eggs. That doesn't mean the chances are good for eggs that late in the season. An egg laid in mid September will become (if all goes right) an emerged adult in mid October. Minnesotians and Michiganders alike know full well, mid October can be chilly, stormy, and sometimes snow might even start to fall. By that time too, most of the nectar producing flowers are gone, and the ones that are there, well, there's less and less of them each day. So, eggs laid in September already are primed to become adults that aren't that likely to make it to Mexico. Milkweed is also hard to come by as September becomes October. "Mom" still lays the eggs, but she's out nothing in doing so. And as a Monarch can lay up to 500 eggs, well, if just two of the 500 make it to Mexico, the "Mom" broke even in playing the "pass on your genes" game. If three make it, she won the game. So, she lays them, even though us humans know, the majority won't make it compared to if she was laying those eggs in August. For all of these reasons, this is why some hobbyists set an end date, where even if they find eggs/caterpillars, they cease taking them in. For me, I do not take in eggs any longer after the first week of September. Even those eggs, I know, have odds stacked against them. But I do it so I can show them to my students, and because I can still get milkweed for about a month without much trouble.

Ivan del rio it’s for the best or eventually it would die, with a lot of pain