Aristocrats are like cockroaches in lace. I'll never forget how hilarious it was when I converted an EU4 to Vic2 game as a genocidal Mongol Empire. Whereas my friend went for turbo literacy humanism in Scotland, I went for ultra traditional aristocracy for that cav combat. This had unintended consequences when the save was converted to vic2 - my capital city was 40% aristocrats
@@arisaka233EU4 to Vic2 converter. The converter converts your savegame into a victoria 2 mod, so you can continue your EU4 campaign in Vic2. The converter converts development into pops, factoring in your idea groups. There are other converters allowing you to play a megacampaign from ck2 all the way to hoi4
@@arisaka233 He was using the Unofficial Save Converter. It takes into account things like Idea Groups, Development, Buildings, Decisions and events etc. to determine how many pops should be in a province and what composition should they be. For example, his friend chose Humanist ideas, which makes your pops more likely to be Intellectuals (clergymen in base Vic2)
@@SlimeJime in the late game i dont like to see red in the pie charts but i need to tax other pops from the same stassa to keep my economy going vic3 probably gonna fix this
@@SlimeJime Slime Jime, I find that at least in modded Vic2, they help a lot to suplement production as long as there are enough resources to input and demand for the output, they can capture money from foreign markets for the nation alongside the factories so I don't mind them too much
@@SlimeJime Fix just realised in my New Era Modded Game as greece(where admittedly I have cheated a bit since i am annoyed having to manage troops to win wars) most of my steel production is by artisans, I produce about 2.8k steel, 2k of which are produced by my artisans due to a distinct lack of craftsmen, although to be fair, all 900k of my artisans are producing steel, and likely inefficiently so, since even with most of my workers in other factories, I still managed to produce 800 steel
pre-industrialization artisans are the backbone of your economy (along with those that provide resources and bureaucrats) but when you start researching better tech industrialization becomes profitable and artisans pretty much become obsolete
No matter how much you industrialise you cannot beat the production of modernised Chinese artisans. Also your meme game is on point mate, never have I seen someone use FGO, Tintin and Morrowind together
@@TheButterMinecart1 oh you dont want to experiences it. The game didn't balanced with this in mind. In the late game united Chinese Artisans will wreck the global economy (just in real life really).
Capitalist is actually useful if you have large nations because otherwise your game will turn into a tycoon games real quick (You had to manually build and upgrade your factory, which is fine for small nations but tedious for bigger ones).
Upgrading and building factories by hand is op for a big country like Germany or the United States, you can just build a perfect and super productive economy, capitalists are useful for lazy players
Shift click my man But yeah, once you've planned everything out yourself (or are large enough for it to not even matter) always switch to laissez faire because of automation and their prod bonus. Plus they give enourmous tax revenue in the late game. Capis are an easy S tier starting mid game Similar for clerks and their bonuses (also to research). Pretty shit tier list tbh
What also bumps up Craftsmen, Labourers and Farmers up for me is that you can mobilize them for your army. They and the Soldiers win you wars while the other pops do nothing for that.
Nah, Elon Musk is all about futuristic-looking transport that fits few people and is ultimately useless, so he'd be all over trying to invent mini-planes that seat 2 or 3 people and take off from circular runways. Like in that Jay Foreman video
The aristocrats are arguably the most integral part of this game though. They hire labourers and farmers to work on the RGOs in every province. You literally wont be able to produce shit like wheat or coal if you dont have them :/
They aren't really the most integral. Most states start with between 2-4 aristocrat efficiency, but there is no point of trying to get that up to 100% through national foci, as there are more important pops to prioritise such as bureaucrats or intellectuals. The industrial/commerce tree also increases RGO output pretty early in the game where there is just no point of trying to increase aristocrat pops.
@@lloyd2633 You dont need to increase aristocrat pops. As long as you have one you can still employ farmers and labourers, if you have no aristocrats, you have nothing.
@@powersettingsm7172 No, if there are no aristocrats the RGO will still hire. It just assumes that somebody will collect 50% of the profit the aristocrats usually get, and then that money vanishes. So its bad to have 0 aristocrats, but it doesn't break the game in the way you think. also you can't get rid of your aristocrats so it doesn't really matter. their survival instincts are too strong
@@SlimeJime" The income from an RGO is distributed between the owners ( aristocrats) and the paid workers (either farmers or laborers). Unpaid workers ( slaves) do not get anything.". Well that's what the wiki says. It doesnt say that aristocrats are necessary for a province to hire pops but it does say they're necessary for them to get paid. Man this game is so broken lol
@@powersettingsm7172 the economy is just really rigid. i've tested this before for capitalists, the "owner" pops just have 50% of an RGO or factory's income reserved for them, nobody else can collect it. The 50% goes to the workers. it's pretty easy to test with capitalists because you don't need them to build a factory. Set one up in the early game, check your workers income, then promote some capitalists. you'll see that the worker's income doesn't change at all.
Artisans are the producers of the feudal age. Then the merchant class began selling them their resources, and buying the products. This turned them essentially into the merchants' workers. So the merchants put them in one big place and made them produce stuff together, making the first manufactories, which became factories. And that is how the Capitalist mode of production started. They work nearly exactly how they did in real life, except they survive longer in Vic2. They are starving and instead of becoming a factory worker, the just continue to starve like a moron.
Farmers sadly dont transition fast enough the way irl does, in irl due to industrial revolution, each farmer produces a fuck ton, leaving their sons as well as colleagues unemployed
Not as fast as irl but they do eventually transition and become a minority pop as you get techs which increase farmer production and thuse cause unemployment in farmer pops(which drives them to promote to craftsmen)
@@arthurbordet8754 To prevent a late game liquidity crisis, if less money is added via gold mines than it leaves the system via entering state treasuries then the supply of money ceases to exist, to solve this problem make big spending, lower taxes and destroy countries from the game to stop their treasury from growing.
@@diegotrejos5780 this can also happen with debt interest, as that is voided. additionally, factories without capitalists void half their income and thus a country like russia trying to industrialize can also cause a liquidity crisis in theory.
The problem with both Aristocrats and Capitalist, is that they can't lead other lower class pops into revolt, so they never can build up decent brigade counts.
I find the game's system for generals to be pathetic, auto assign should also just automatically create generals and the points should not be made by percentage but by sheer number of officers
@@Cecilia-ky3uw You mean like they historically did and did so faster over time, because more people lived after the industrial revolution? But giving bonus because of being a "great power" is okay. Just shit game design and shit historical simulation
@@Cecilia-ky3uw Osmosis, give higher tech cost reductions when something has already been researched, industrial spying, research cooperation. Boni because of high standard of living and high population density, relatively good education system for the time, high university density, early adoption of industrialism/steampower/rails (Benelux region were first in the continent to adopt) You could give them a bonus for their history in printing and publishing and their strong participation in global trade and colonialism (being competitive, sharing of ideas)
Capitalists are really nice if you don't want to micro everything. Imo state capitalism/planned economy is just an early game and transition to electronics thing, after that I either use interventionism or laissez faire (usually only post 1890 tho)
Exactly, any large country it's the 2nd pop I promote (after clergy). Just manually build a little industry and then let the capitalists do all the work. As Russia there is no way I'm clicking to build in every province. Let them do all that work!
@@MarlosCanuel one of the problems wirh Capitalists in a big country tbat I've noticed is that they can't build fast enough. In my last Russia game where I was avoiding planned economy or state capitalism they would just stop trying to make or expand factories because they capped out their build queue. Honesrly kind of annoying.
@@jakman2179 I haven't had that happen but I go for an interventionist government just in case so I can help it along. Did you just spam capitalists in one state or start getting a good number all over the country?
@@jakman2179 As long as you don't tax them and promote a good 0,4% in the biggest states along with 0,2% in the other ones everything should be fine. They will have enough money
I feel like clerks got a bit underrated over here. Aside from somehow filling less of their needs than the average craftsman most times because "Victoria 2 reasons", they can absolutely save your industry's profits and increase them further while remaining competitive in external markets and fighting against enemy competition. I've got NO IDEA of how this works, but I've got factories running on just a few units of £s on the green despite selling everything go up to _several and several_ times over until they go back to making sizeable profits again and other times where I apparently managed to reduce other Powers' production on certain goods upon encouraging them until the factories reach the 30% output bonus. There is something very, very weird and unexplained about how the profits work in his game and it has A LOT to do with how much output bonus you have at times...
Actually generals/officers coup may occur, because in game may uprise whole army stack, then general will stay as leader so therefore if he will take capital then it's technically general coup.
Artisans: HMMM i've been starving for 100 years because im trying to make clipper convoys, it is definetly wise to stay an artisan and not demote to labourer/farmer
@@SlimeJime Yah it's really not much unless you're just powergaming everything to hell. Though it is more noticeable when you modify the end date, and suddenly that bonus is the only possible increase to productivity you can get.
From my time playing - clerks and craftsmen are the end goal, the rest is for growing this population and this is done mostly by increasing literacy , importing the right resources or just having them available and researching tech so that your clerks and craftsmen will exist and will also have factories to work in. Capitalists are more useful that said here I think but not so much early game.
Capitalists building railroads in all my states so I dont get arthritis: Epic Capitalists randomly building a luxury clothes factory when I need steel: ???? (also, artisans randomly making stuff like explosive is always funny)
Just realized Vicky2 is much more realistic that I previously thought, with things like urbanization (farmers going to towns and becoming craftsmen), slavery becoming nonprofitable, etc.
imo they should rework slaves a little. Slaves should be more productive than farmers early game. They did benefit from some early tech that actually kept them profitable. Honestly, the reason slavery ended up going into the garbage bin of history was that they were too profitable compared to honest labor and people didn't want to compete with slaves. You could model that in the game by having them be more productive but all of their wealth goes to aristocrats instead of the state, so the player has an incentive to get rid of it once they can produce RGOs with farmers instead.
@@pax6833 Also, wealth being concentrated in the hands of a few families is terrible for a modern day economy because there isn't going to be enough consumers/spenders for products to be viable.
Capitalists also increase input efficiency, therefore increase profitability. Also there are ways to manipulate what they should build, if you play with f.e USA.
I think Capitalists being idiots kinda makes sense. I imagine it wasn’t too uncommon for the son of some aristocrat or some upper middle class dude to try his hand in this new capitalism business with no real knowledge and his startup dies without finding. From my understanding it leads to only a very small handful of capitalists to be successful which is accurate. Keep in mind they can’t see the future while we as the player can. They can’t be certain Clippers will become completely obsolete while we do. Even the capitalists make stupid decisions all the time, just look at CNN+. Plus there is the gameplay reason of the devs didn’t want the game to basically play itself
They work for China because china doesn't westernize until endgame so tech boni don't matter to it and its economy works through sheer weight of numbers to produce things.
@@МаркоПоло-ю2у In most cases you can't. There are a bunch of mechanics for assimilation, but in general it will take most of the game. It is only ever very fast in the Americas, where there is a special modifier. I could go more in-depth in a video tho
Also play a game as China into the late game and watch capitalisms reacreate survival of the fittest but with factories. Just destroy all factories that go out of business and watch the capitalists kee throwing crap at the wall until it sticks.
Clerks should be A tier, craftsmen run the factories but clerks make them profitable, also that 4% research bonus from clerks is pretty sweet and they're middle class too so good consumers. I think buerecrats should be high A or even low S. The fact that admin efficiency means better POP promotion means its often worth going beurecrats>clergy>craftsmen. Beurecrats also increase tax, tariff efficiency, prevent negative crime modifiers to provinces, allow for turning colonies into states and even coring provinces. Also buerecrats in my games tend to get their luxury good and are good assimilaters to the primary culture. They actually do tons, I think they're S tier
Clerks have made some of my factories that were once running just above 0 despite selling all their production to absolute heights of profitability. I've got no idea of how this works. But it works.
Clerks are great pops, better than clergyman at least. They also produce research points, but also increase production in factories, and don't rely on government to feed them. They're the most valuable pop at the end of a game. Quantity over quality.
Nothing against your other videos, they’re fun in their own way, but I personally would LOVE to see more content like this. Haven’t been this entertained in a minute.
Laborers should be S tier because you need them so badly. If your laborers are turned into craftsmen on super important RGOs like iron, the game enters a permanent economic depression because of the resulting global iron shortage breaks the game economy, especially since you can't demote pops into laborers to increase supply. Feels bad. Otherwise great list.
1) Artisans are debased by craftsmen. I think it has a lot of historical backing I remember reading about artisans protesting against high tariffs in the US 2) Do all pops contribute to mobilization? I thought it was only farmers and laborers? 3) Great video1
Clergyman are basically the same as in real life they are the ones offering the education to the population even if their influence has declined many educational institutions are religious
You're completely wrong with the capitalists. In laissez-faire (best eco policy), they can build and expand factories for only 30% of what u would, and encouraging more (you can do the same with aristocrats) increases the demand for goods, higher demand = higher price = more $$$ for craftsmen (clerks are only good if you really want those research points). Added benefit is that you don't have to worry about your industry for the rest of the game (and the 5% factory output is nice too).
@@GameyRaccoon there is a gamey thing you can do where you manually buy "0" of your military supplies to save money without losing organization. its finicky and you have to reset back to auto if you ever need to reinforce. otherwise no, you should always stay on auto-trade. delete your starting navy if ur have money problems.
So to me the slave only needs one adjustment...It needs to be harder to Ban As in history slavery itself was that anchor that prevented countries from entering the industrial age a lot of the time and I generally enjoy how it more drags your Economy down Which can be seen in real life cases like the Union and the Confederacy where one could just outproduce the other and I wish slave revolts where also added and where made Just as scary as they were in real life because that would push the players to getting rid of it even faster
I don't think capitalists, landowners and clerks deserve to be placed this low. Capitalists and landowners of valuable resources swim in cash. They will feed your luxury goods factories which are the most profitable goods in the game. And clerk %30 output bonus is insane. You need every type of pops for a healty economy
That's such a tiny bonus it's irrevelant. Their point is they demand so much luxury goods that your factories can make profit by just selling them goods.
21 percent bureacrats was never necessary tbh, at highest I believe it was like 4 or 5 percent bureacrats- doesn't apply to modded games where you need to maintain said bureacracy spending to maintain bonuses, does overbloating your bureacrat population
they get to 21% in a single province (possibly) because they can only exist in the state capital. it has to cover for all the other provinces in the state
@@SlimeJime also, it might also be caused by the fact that state-provided Bureaucrats' income/stipend tend to grow steadily to be more and more lucrative by the endgame -> which means more people convert to Bureaucrats over time since it offers more money than becoming a clerk or officer, for example. I noticed sometimes that some of my poor provinces (i.e with wool or fish RGOs or poor industries) got more Bureau Bros by percentage compared to my other richer, more industrialized provinces. I often get provinces with 10% or more Bureaucrats pops by the endgame, since I don't really want to reduce my admin fund sliders (lol)
@@hanselsihotang "I noticed sometimes that some of my poor provinces (i.e with wool or fish RGOs or poor industries) got more Bureau Bros by percentage compared to my other richer, more industrialized provinces." That actually happens IRL, I'm from a relatively less fortunate part of my country and the amount of people who become civil servants is significantly higher than around the rest (per capita). Though they then get reshuffled to the wealthier and more populous regions.
@@andresmartinezramos7513 same in my country too lol. I guess it's pretty funny that old game like Vicky manage to somewhat replicate the problem that plague some countries IRL (the overly bloated bureaucracy that exist because there're not many other better career choices available).
