I feel like joy also restricts her moves when she’s wearing tight uncomfortable clothes... that’s why she’s better in umpah umpah where she was wearing comfortable clothes
I think when she’s at a physical and emotional peak Yeri could be way higher, I think consistency is her biggest issue by far. I also sadly think that after the events of December Wendy might not come back how she left which is super sad because you can tell she tried her best to develop her dance skills.
After a few incidents SM seems to take a lot more care of the mental health of idols eventually she will get over it, she's that kind of girl. Im sure of it. (hope it won't take long tho)
i don't really think consistency is yeri's main issue, it's that she's often off beat and out of sync, which i think shows a lack of rhythm overall rather anything to do with emotions or physicality. she trained a lot but i don't think she has much fluidity as a dancer. but yes i really hope wendy will be okay, regardless of dancing, i just hope she heals completely and is healthy.
From 7:15 - 7:31 I meant "Because she is amazing at hip hop and similars, but not as genius in the other styles". I have NO IDEA how it came out like that
@@summerrusset2578 plus, her height is in her limbs. There are other idols that are the tallest in their group but are part of the dance line such as Rosé and Jiho but they have less height problems because their height is in their torso.
Seeing how Wendy has improved makes me very excited to see the progress of the 4th gen girl groups. So many of them are already such strong dancers. In a few years they could be absolutely incredible and I can't wait to see that! Also reminds me I should be practicing my dancing more lol
I agree with everything except for Seulgi being underrated haha. She's definitely not underrated, she's ALWAYS mentioned when the people talk about 3rd generation best dancers or best SM dancers. Also she's really really popular, the people know her more for her dance than her vocals, and that's amazing. She, with Momo and Lisa, are the most popular dancers in the 3rd generation and three of the most popular in the kpop.
the fact that seulgi joined sm to ba a vocalist scares me like bruh she is a monster she has a very beautiful vocal and she dances like that all her hard works has paid off
5:03 I don’t think irene intends to look so stone faced when she dances I think she’s just super focused on the movements. There are also many performances of Irene dancing with red velvet with good stage presence and facial expressions so...
@@forggstans she does great in velvet concepts for me, and is doing quite well in umpah-umpah era. But yeah in red concepts, she is usually expressionless.
i think seulgi levels herself with her co-members in the group when dancing as a group. you see in her solo dance she is a monster dancer, but when dancing as red velvet she seems to be just an above average dancer. but you can point out that she's the best in the group
Yeah right because the concept of dancing in RV specially in Red side. Their dance is not that complicated in many song. Seulgi and Irene sacrifice alot in their dancing just to be a team player and not outshine everyone. Sub unit prove that their dancing is on a another level.
Honestly, for me. I think all dancers in every kpop group should do that ESPECIALLY those with lots of members. I think main dancers should only go all out in solo dance and dance break.
The same can be said about all main dancers and main vocalists. They are in a different level compared to the rest of the members in their group and they have to tone down to match their members. So people outside of Reveluv don't consider Seulgi one of the top dancers in 3rd gen because they don't see her individual dances where she really shows her skills and technique, and same goes for Wendy. People think Wendy's not the best main vocal in 3rd gen cause they don't watch her individual performances and listen to her belt and do vocal runs that you won't always hear in RV title tracks. That's just how it is💁 and also why I'm happy Seulgi and Irene got to show their skills in their subunit, and why I'm waiting for a Wendy solo album to show off her range and technique and skill
@@endaime26_52 yes but so does Seulgi, you can still see that she does some moves better than her members, but I’m saying that RV dances aren’t that ntricate and technique based and so people don’t get to see just how good Seulgi can dance
As a dancer for over 19 years, I'll just give my own opinion again. Seulgi is my favorite dancer and she actually helped teach Joy to dance as a trainee. Joy is also one of the most consistently in sync with Seulgi which is a massive pro and indicative of dance ability and her sense of rhythm. I definitely don't think Joy should be ranked last. I would say that because Joy had such a short trainee period she was less developed at debut but she’s definitely improved a lot since then, which has been demonstrated by her Psycho performance on Handsome Tigers (wearing comfortable pants), Sunny Side Up fancam Bing Bing fancam, Umpah Umpah Weekly Idol fancam, and with her Tango solo dance. Joy is usually given tight short dresses to dance in (the RBB fancam used in this video has her in a tight strapless bustier and hot pants), but when she gets to dance in appropriate outfits she can really show her fluidity and clean dance lines. I agree with the video that Joy has great stage presence, and I'd actually say she does have good extensions and that the ballet training she began last year has improved her dance lines even more. With her taller height though, Joy is more careful to match the other members, something she actually does consistently well, making her movements more refined. Since there is a height difference with the rest of her members, Joy has to alter her movements to ensure she matches the formation (which she does). Joy consistently makes the overall choreo formation look good and that's something I would say puts Joy at 3rd in the group. Joy’s biggest weakness is her stamina, and knowing that she has underlying health issues it’s clearer to see why she sometimes doesn’t hit moves as hard or has as much power, but it should be stated that this is separate to actual dance ability. A Red Velvet choreographer stated that Joy always looks for ways to make the choreo more expressive and I can definitely see this. Just compare the Umpah Umpah Weekly Idol fancams of all the members and you'll see how Joy is in sync with the music, where she shows detailed and expressive dancing. I'd also recommend people watch the group Sunny Side Up fancam from Inkigayo which especially displays Joy's dancing ability. Not to mention Joy's special stages, where she always stands out and has done very well delivering the choreo each time (Age of Ceremony, Hush, MR MR etc etc). As a dancer, I would definitely put Joy as 3rd overall. Anyway I think Red Velvet are such an amazing group, all with their own strengths, and I hope all the members will be reunited soon on stage.
yes and to add too, joy was recovering from a shoulder injury throughout the rbb era. joy was actually sent to hospital mid-concert less than a month before this comeback and was receiving injections to help with the pain in order to perform. i don't think it's right to use such a fancam to critique her as a dancer and then say she has a stiff torso (whilst she's also having to wear a strapless top). after watching fancams like sunny side up and umpah umpah weekly idol, plus various compilations like this one ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2Svbn6j7Dt0.html i completely agree with your ranking and analysis.
Just want to add - joy always get really short skirts and she seems always hold back because of it. Check out the video of her to psycho on I think handsome tigers? Definitely performer though - or maybe the old episode when she’s queen havana
no surprise to see that seulgi is at #1, and i agree with irene at #2. but i'd definitely put joy at #3 overall. i often watch red velvet group fancams because i think they give a much better comparison than just looking at solo fancams from different eras. just watch the sunny side up group fancam from inkigayo (where they're wearing purple and black) or the sma pyscho fancam. i honestly don't know how anyone could watch that and rank joy as last in dancing. although joy's dancing isn't as powerful, she's actually very fluid and in sync (a main dancer like seulgi is both). wendy definitely has a lot of energy, and i noticed her improvement around kcon ny 2018, but more energy doesn't translate into skills and her overdancing looks very odd like a zumba routine in choreo like bad boy. for me that's a huge negative, as it actually affects the way the group choreo looks overall. i would put yeri at #5 because i find yeri's movement very disconnected and often out of sync and quite awkward looking, which is why i think choreo with abrupt movements is probably better for her because it doesn't require fluidity. anyway i definitely recommend people watch various group fancams for themselves. for example this zimzalabim group fancam: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-miSelTz4dmA.html, MAMA 2017 dance break fancam: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wtauxdkHTGQ.html, sunny side up group fancam: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rYr8VNTzE0A.html, and the SMA psycho performance ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zyAKP0VIit0.html. my ranking remains: #1 Seulgi #2 Irene #3 Joy #4 Wendy #5 Yeri
I completely agree with your analysis and ranking. I also think you make a very valid point about using group fancams to accurately compare things. You can even see here with the choice of using that specific RBB fancam for Joy where she's wearing a strapless top (and how she was then critiqued for having a stiff torso when that's not an issue for her when she's wearing dance appropriate outfits). Not to mention Joy was literally recovering from a shoulder injury during this whole period. She was sent to hospital mid-stage and was receiving injections to help with the pain. The part selected for this video also skips probably the most important section of the choreo at the RBB chorus where Joy really delivered the choreo well. I went and watched the full group fancam from that day and it certainly clarifies dance ability when you see everyone performing the same choreo together. Your points were spot on. Thanks for explaining things so clearly.
@@Zinnie98 yeah i think group fancams are a really important point of analysis as they actually let you compare how in sync the members are with the overall group and how it impacts on the complete choreo. i commonly see this overlooked in rankings when i'd say it's an incredibly important aspect as a dancer. as you said, outfits are also an important factor and certainly should be taken into consideration when critiquing performances.
watched all the third gen girl groups big 3 vids you made and I agree with the rankings Lisa#1 Momo#2 and Seulgi#3 but I think if I would rank them in overall performance (including singing, stage presence, etc.) Seulgi would rank #1. Seulgi is one of the greatest performers of kpop she is one those who are perfect packages of what a great performer should be💛🐻 all these girls deserve all the praise for their amazing talents👑👑👑
@THE FACTS she isn’t a bad freestyler. her freestyle in chicago was really good, she used her whole body. her freestyle in idol room however was messy, but it might have been because she was joking or because the song wasn’t too fitting. she has the potential of having good freestyle as seulgi.
Agree with your ranking fully. I just want to point out that I believe Joy isn’t as loose and expressive body wise when she dances is because she normally gets out in very tight and short dresses not allowing for a lot of mobility. When she wears comfortable clothing she dances a lot more fluid. Still agree on the ranking though.
Exactly. It doesn't make sense, she really has a rythm, charisma, and can dance having comfortable clothes, and even having an uncomfortable outfit she can nailed it. Doesn't seem right.
@@alzu582 Yes but compared to the other members she's probably last but she still a good dancer. Her height honestly is keeping her from her potential since she has to keep as even with the others as possible
@@alzu582 Yep, it just seems people have wanted to spread a certain narrative. Joy's so great in the Sunny Side Up group fancam ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rYr8VNTzE0A.html and in so many others like this Zimzalabim one ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-miSelTz4dmA.html. This ranking video also uses a fancam from when Joy was injured and having to get injections throughout promoting. I don't think it's too much to ask for people who make ranking videos to properly research or watch multiple fancams from within the last year so that their analysis is accurate and unbiased. Isn't that the point of the video? Even taking into account her health issues, the way Joy's constantly put in the tighest shortest skirts, and how Joy has to adjust her movements because of the height difference, after watching fancams from over the years and her special stages, I'd never put her 5th.
Honestly I think part of the reason joy comes across as so stiff is because of the outfits she get she constantly looks uncomfortable in her out fits like in her umpha umpha solo dance on weekly idol she did so good and look so less stiff and I also think their choreography is focused more toward smaller people which is fair since 4/5 of them are tiny but I think it puts her at a disadvantage but I do agree with this ranking
Joy mostly has a disadvantage when it comes to dancing on stage. (I'm not saying this is the reason she is ranked lower than the other members it's just her disadvantage) She always gets short, tight, and uncomfy outfits causing her to show a lack of power/confidence. I'm pretty sure Joy also gets uncomfy shoes to dance with. I'm not saying the other members don't get uncomfortable outfits/shoes I just see Joy getting them every time.
The biggest contrast there is for seulrene is that seulgi is more of a hiphop dancer. She's great with popping, locks and etc. but when it comes to fluidity and gracefulness its Irene. I personally think that's the reason why she's lead because her line of dance is more of the hips and shakes
im a dancer too and i agree with this ranking! could you maybe do clc cause like i want to see what you have to say about seungyeon because imo shes fantastic
Yeri looks stift of some of her moments. Joy is focus on being sexy and fluid. I love joy so im al ittle bias so im pushing her on 4th lol. The rest is perfect
MY OPINION (btw i´m a dancer too lmao): 5/4) wendy/yeri: I honestly can't pick between them who is a better dancer, each one of them has her own vibe in dancing, but both of them are on the same level so i think no one is better than the other, their dance moves are too simple and great, especially that they always make the dance moves looks easy and simple so that's perfect. 3) Irene : Een though irene is a lead dancer but i still think joy is a bit better than her, irene has a higher technique in dancing but joy has the charisma, so in my opinion i prefer the charming and charisma more than the technique cuz that's what attract the fan to a member. 2) Joy: As i said joy has the most charisma while dancing ( in my opinion) so i prefer her so much than the others not bcz the others are not good, definitely not, actually the other members can dance very well and everything but i am just saying my opinion. 1) seulgi: SEULGI OUR BEST MAIN DANCER! Ofc she is the best dancer out of the group, actually Seulgi isn't a main dancer for nothing, she has the most perfect technique and vibe in dancing, she feels the dance moves ao much that she makes it looks easier than it is originally, she also has enough charisma and charms to attract anyone to her dancing.
About Joy, well for example when i watched sunny side up’s fancams she really captured me (dance-wise) i mean she has a sexy way of dancing and she was so smooth too ; she did good in many moves where i found wendy and yeri a bit stiff in it . I think that Joy, yeri and wendy have the same level and for irene and seulgi i feel that they are main dancer materials (of course seulgi is already one of the best female dancers in kpop) . And just one more thing , THE FACT THAT ALL RED VELVET’S MEMBERS HAVE SCORES OVER AVERAGE; JUST LIKE IN VOCALS🥰- WAW.
I love Irene so much and she is such a great dancer, but I will never understand why she always looks like she does not want to be on stage when she is performing with RV. Even in Zimzalabim, which I consider her era, and is a high energy song, she looks annoyed. I know it is just her face, and I do not at all believe she is an "ice queen" or whatever antis say about her, but on stage, I just wish she would show more presence. You don't have to be smiley all the time, but it is part of her job as a performer to have facial expressions. Even if they aren't great, she needs to utilize her face more. Again, I adore her and I know that she has a resting mean face, but on stage, her face should not be resting, at least not all the time. She is a very bubbly person with a big laugh and a kind heart, so I just do not get it.
@@juansuarez0126 That is true. In her concert videos and performances other than awards and music shows she is more expressive. Maybe she feels too controlled on those stages.
Something I've noticed in all their performances and dance practices is that Seulgi and Wendy have the best sense of rhythm. Seulgi is a naturally good dancer and for Wendy, it might be because she just has a very good understanding of music, based on her vocals Joy and Irene are pretty good, but Yeri often does her moves too fast
Could you do Cosmic Girls and After School? They have hardcore choreos, AS way more, but anyway I want your opinion! I love your insights Could you too please make a special of Insane Choreos in kpop? Like Poledance, risky moves, insane difficult levels? Girl groups do less then boygroups but still is easy to find
In all honesty I'm really obsessed with great dancers in Red Velvet, Seulgi is my 1st then 2nd goes to Irene although Irene I really like her graceful manner & flexibility but she can manage to catch up with Seulgi if she works hard.. Seulgi I've seen her different styles in dancing the fact she's been trained for the longest time compare to the other so it's given.. But I'd like to see Seulgi dancing in a sexiest ways like more daring and bold although I've seen a few footage that she dance in a sexy but it's really different if she can showcase that side.. I know she can nailed that it's just that SM Ent. wont let Seulgi showcase that kind of stuff for the sake of her image and reputation.. In ITZY I'm really obsessed with the trio Yeji, Chaeryeong and Ryujin my god I really love it when these trio dancing. In Blackpink I'm obsessed with Lisa & Rose when it comes into dancing.. Lisa is really a great dancer.. Actually there's so many to mention as long as main dancers.. I would totally go crazy cos I'm obsessed for perfection for dancing
I knew it Yeri Joy and Wendy are really so close to each other when it comes to dancing. For me, It's really hard to rank them so I put them all in #3 😅
Plus the fact that Wendy has to also hits high and complicated notes while dancing makes her more awesome. Plus her facial expressions are on point as always
in my opinion sometimes irene doesn't let her head free when she dance when rv performance irene always keep her hair beautiful and not let her head free to dance that make me feels uncomfortable when she dance on the stage cause like her body dance but her head keep stay which make me feel really uncomfortable. she's really full of energy when dance practice n wear a comfortable clothes but i wish i can see irene being like that on the stage too pls don't judge me its just my opinion hehe i love her so muchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Wendy always got criticized for her dancing but her energy and charisma on stage has always caught my attention and made up for any flaws imo. I might have posted this before but I remember watching one of their 'Russan Roulette' goodbye stages and Wendy just consistently stole the cameraman's attention and always looked like she was having a blast regardless of HOW she was doing and that's infectious. Joy meanwhile while she can have great charisma when she wants and has one of the best smiles (and eye smiles) like EVER imo tends to wear quite a lot of emotions on her sleeve so to speak so if she's uncomfortable or bothered or in pain (due to her chronic issues? I know she's gotten hurt a few times) it shows really quick and she frequently looks underwhelmed or "over" certain comebacks especially certain Red concepts. HOWEVER, they usually put her (and Irene but mostly her) in the most difficult stage outfits (super short tube dresses etc) plus her slightly taller height and long limbs probably make it a bit more difficult to dance compared to an otherwise very short (tho not LOONA short) group no?
Ik this has nothing to do with this video, but I never knew yeri had a square body shape! It’s so cute 😆. Ik I sound like such a creep rn but it’s just I haven’t rlly seen idols with that body shape so it’s just cool to see it.
I actually really agree! I remember years ago someone said that Joy and Yeri start to struggle at the end of some stages and I was wondering if you noticed that? Thanks for making these!
okay but i think there are way more videos of irene that you could have used; girl really did great in one of the stages of rbb (the stage you used for yeri's); her performance/facials in mnet bad boy stage was great too; dumb dumb was one of her concepts, she owned the choreo. idk if i'm just being biased but i think you focused too much on her expressions (which she's improving so much even at this point) rather than her dancing.anyways, i hope you'll update these rankings too in the future :)
could you make a video for gfriend since gfriend are always praised for their choreographies and how in sync i've always wondered how they all are individually as dancers?
My ranking is almost the same as yours with only a couple changes 5- Yeri Yeri’s angles are decent and she is currently involving sharpness into her technique. Unfortunately she’s the member mostly likely to be offbeat and lacks rhythm. Yeri has stiff hips, a stiff torso and has a lot of arm tension (particularly in her wrists). She also has a tendency to shortcut movements and under-extend her dance lines. Yeri’s isolations can be very sloppy at times and I’ve also noticed she hunches her shoulders a lot. 4- Joy Joy is better than KPOP dance rankers give her credit for. Her hip control is very developed and her angles and placement have gotten better over the years. She is also the member most in sync with Seulgi during live performances. She can be stiff at times though, specifically in her torso area. Like Yeri, Joy also has issues with under-dancing and under-extending movements due to a limited range of motion. Her isolations are often sloppy or just not executed at all. She needs to work on her overall body control and her energy levels. 3- Wendy Wendy has great facial expressions and good rhythm. She has also showcased an ability to be very fluid if the dance calls for it. Wendy’s biggest weakness is her body control. She has poor body control so it often makes her placements, angles, and lines look sloppy. Her tendency exert too much energy only aggravates this issue. Because of a lack of body control her isolations are very sloppy and poorly executed. She also has a tendency to tense up her body during faster sections of the choreo. 2- Irene There is a big jump in technique once you get to Irene. Irene is very fluid and graceful. She has good angles + lines and can be very precise. As showcased by ‘Naughty’ she also has good arm control. She also has very good neck isolations as seen in Monster and certain parts of CookieJar. Irene has two main weaknesses. 1: Weak dynamics. Irene has a tendency to execute every move with the same energy which hinders her dynamics. Rarely ever does she show tension or power variations which makes her dancing look one-note 2: Under-extension in her lower area. Irene’s leg movements are often shortcut or not fully executed. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-W-ovOXIkVYg.html in RBB at 2:21 compare her leg movements to Seulgi or even Wendy. Look at how her knee isn’t brought up very high. Another example would be in Umpah Umpah: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Z4BE86Z0kYE.html notice how at 0:25 Irene’s knees never fully extend outwards like Seulgi. And at 0:49 the second knee movement isn’t done (again look at Seulgi in comparison) 1- Seulgi Seulgi is a very clean dancer. Rarely ever does she blur her lines together. Her sharpness allows her to create clean and precise angles, and her body locks are clear and well executed. Seulgi has great armwork and legwork. She also has great rhythm and dynamics. She also has the best isolations in the group BY FAR. Her biggest weaknesses are torso stiffness, a lack of body connectivity, and un-detailed footwork. She also has minor balance issues
i feel like seulgi's lack of agility and balance comes form her lack of flexibility mostly , but her BODY LOCKS are something else, and also she adds texture....
I find after the seulrene subunit, Irene stage presence improved a lot. I guess prior to the subunit ppl always complimented Irene for her looks and never her talent. Similar to the imposter syndrome, I guess Irene just thought she wasn't talented and felt she didn't need to put any effort. but once she got complimented for her dancing skills (during the subunit) she realized her worth and started putting more effort and looks happier on stage. just an observation :)
Joy is the 3rd best dancer IMO, and her technique exists in the fact that she moderates her movement accordingly to her conditions. Although she has less power, her movements are always connected and graceful which end up making the choreo looking easy without being sloppy. She is the type who can add power when she wants to (look at dumb dumb). I noticed she is very aware of her own limits and weaknesses. So with that in mind, she is definitely a solid idol dancer, but not up to par with Seulgi. And in general, I don't think she focuses as much on being the best dancer but rather someone who does enough to not be criticized (focuses more on the performance as a whole). I like her style because she consistently keeps her dancing at a certain standard, never going below. Not to mention she is very good with waves LOL (very good natural groove and rhythm). Lots of room for potential if she focuses on improving her isolation and edgier styles. Yeri, on the other hand, has dropped to #5 for me since she had a car accident around RR era. Her posture became really bad (this creates bad dance angles) as well as how she's always offbeat and often does not complete the entire movement leading to a very choppy and inconsistent style of dancing. When I watch fancams of yeri compared to seulgi/joy/irene, she just does not capture the original feeling the choreography was meant to have which makes it frustrating or just boring for me to watch :/ (2:43 she's rushing through the moves while joy takes time to execute the whole thing) Wendy would be 4th! Really good power and more awareness of rhythm; but she needs to learn how to moderate her moves a bit more as she does tend to over dance or create angles that are a bit off.
For 4th do gidle (I don’t know if they’re third or fourth), Cignature (if it isn’t too early to tell) and bvndit For 3rd gen dreamcatcher, mamamoo and twice
i know that there's not enough material since they just debuted, but it would be great if you can rank SECRET NUMBER. They have two ex YG trainees and a 1 million dancer. Just discovered your channel and i love your analysis. Keep up!
Your channel become more and more famous, just keep update more! Can you do SN and Oh My Girl? Yooa was amazing dancer that people always overlooked her.
In my opinion the irene part where you commented on her facials would be the hardest thing to improve she even said herself that she’s super introverted and when their’s a camera her face is muted or monotonous and stiff
Seulgi’s techniques and foundation to Me is very very strong and well established and I always thought she lacked energy but in fact, no. She has great torso control and energy but rather I realised it is probably her lack of flexibility and groove. Like sometimes it doesn’t “excite” me to watch her dance but sometimes it does.
here are my suggestions: Momoland CLC Weki Meki DIA Cherry Bullet Apink fromis_9 AOA MAMAMOO Gugudan EXID BVNDIT APRIL GWSN SONAMOO Lovelyz SNSD Secret Number btw i love your videos
