What blows my mind is how few hours he has in the game. By 11/11/12 I had several thousand in Skyrim. Dude's been playing since launch, for almost a decade, and has half the time....
Most of them probably end up in Z tier. Aside from Brimstone and D6 everything else is garbage (haven't watched Issac in years, is that still the meta?)
@@KevinAccetta You can download extensions for that. I don't go quite to 3x, but my standard right now is 2.5x, since I got so used to 2x that it started sounding slow.
@@bardockshiny I assume that was supposed to be an insult. 🤣 It wasn't.. But, I said I hated it... Not, that it was hard....🤦🏻♂️ Reading comprehension, little fella
I wish at the end of the video B-Tier was just empty and when people asked why he was just like “I’ve already discussed them all, there’s no longer a need for it on the chart”
NL, I'm just gonna say. You said Gungeon was 'meh', it got a lot of updates, gave it a second chance, loved it. Hades was meh, got a lot of updates, gave it a second chance, loved it. Dead Cells, you think it's meh, it's had an UNREASONABLE amount of updates. It's not even remotely the same game you played years ago. Give it a second chance.
I mean, honestly, his point still stands. The best way to play the game on the highest difficulty is to skip most of the enemies and keep running, and for a game who's combat is fucking amazing and it's selling point, I really dislike how it encourages that kind of play.
Dead Cells is meh at best. It is unreasonably difficult to fight anything on higher boss cell modes. The fluidity of the combat is the games best feature, yet is discourages combat. Yeah...
NL clearly broke himself by playing dead cells so early and listening to chat. Its super polished now. And to echo everyone else, I agree, wtf, no Wizard of legend?
The core concept was done to perfection but the concept of other games are just better. Like how a very good steak would be better than the best vegan chicken nugget.
he did also say that the mechanics can be more stressful than relaxing to him so i can see that being grounds to put it where it is. remember these arent objective tiers, theyre relative to another and all of these games on an overall gaming tier list would be A or higher
I waited for years for that game to get local co-op, i even asked about it in the steam discussions at least 2 times and got positive responses, then they made roguelands or whatever it was called and again no local co-op :(
Slay the Spire is a game that originally didn't grab me and then became a game I've sunk hundreds of hours into across multiple platforms. It's honestly shocking how well they've perfectly captured the gameplay loop to be challenging, rewarding, and just damn fun. Add to that the continued content support and the insane number of customization options, it's definitely top tier for me.
Symeon literally a genre defining game the same way metroidvania's are, so many games bite the basic formula and it still holds up. the only negative is the lack of official endless mode.
@@symeon5518 Honestly, you have to have played FTL to understand how it created it's own genre pretty much. I mean, good management games existed before this, but it's easily conceptually the best crew management game with ship to ship combat and so on. I do understand why FTL is in the A tier and not higher though, because in some ways it always felt lightweight to me. By the time you've played most ships, the core gameplay loop is kind of samey really. I do think the game needs more content or maybe a feature or two to expand upon the core game loop. Don't get me wrong, it's easily 9/10 game for what it is and at an exceptionally low price.
My honorable mentions: Crypt of the Necrodancer: Interesting mechanic to move on beat, banger Danny B soundtrack, lots of characters to play with. Moonlighter: I played it like 5 hrs but economy + roguelike is interesting. Wizard of Legend: Almost good combat fluidity as Dead Cells. Void Bastards: FPS Roguelike done good. Risk of Rain: Name legacy
Moonlighter is amazing. Not nearly enough shop-keep games around. The fact its a Roguelike Shop keep game is amazing. And 100% with you on Wizard of Legend. The combat is so fluid and the variety of tools at your disposal really helps keep the game replayable.
This is the kind of list i want. A in depth ranking of some of the best games in the genre from someone with extensive time in each title, and whose opinion I value on the subject. Thank you sir.
Semyon Galtsev I would say 100+ hours is extensive with how the length of the run is at most a few hours. That’s quite a few runs in each game. Some more then others but that’s enough to rank the games on a tier list.
Semyon Galtsev My friend, if you think that 100+ hours in a roguelike/roguelite game isn’t extensive, I seriously worry for how you spend your free time.
Out of these games Isaac is the one I have the most hours in. I think if you put rebirth in without any of the expansions, it's s-tier. All the other content that came later with the exception of some synergies honestly just bloated a well-balanced game
IMO dead cells is S tier because it has fixed all the faults you mentined, I think you should play through it again cus it's super fun. My list: S: ETG, Dead cells A. Isaac, wizard of legend B. Slay the spire C. FTL, Spelunky, into the breach, rogue legacy D. Dicey Dungeons, darkest dungeon, Nuclear throne
@@darkjanggotdi6154 I don't hate any version of Isaac, but I'd say each expansion was more quantity and less quality changes. For example items kept getting added that really were just slightly different versions of items that already existed. Isaac was huge to begin with, it needed refinement rather than expansion.
I love how everyone's talking about tumbleseed and flinthook while the only reason I remember them is because you played them around the time dead cells came out and my interest in your channel was reignited
As someone who has been following the channel for a long time I'm glad to see spelunky so well treated. It was at the time my favourite serie. Thanks for teaching me English NL. May our next decade be as good as last.
The way NL talked about Dead Cells just showed me he hasn't played it in ages so his opinion was straight up uninformed. I wish he'd played it a bit on his own to take in some of the changes and the game itself without commentary, because it's so much better than it was when he played it, and it was already great then. I also think the visual and sound design is some of the best out there. The OST is just *chef's kiss*.
I have this with Hades. The combat becomes more stale the further into the run, to a point where bossfights are just bullet sponges you need to hit. I might just be bad at building a run but even when making only damage+ choices, it still feels like I'm doing no damage.
I'd love to see more videos like this in the future, NL! Great diversion from the norm that lets your personality shine while also giving you something relatively meaningful to discuss.
@@huseyinarisoy7824 The levels were procedurally generated, as was the missions and items. It had a limited campaign and an endless mode, so it should be counted as roguelike.
By the way, I was pleasantly surprised by Rogue Legacy's addiction. Definitely easy to recommend to those who never played it, but are into platformers / roguelikes.
@@Rafty9 Did you play the game when it was brand new? It was much worse at the time. The two optimal ways to play were to either skip through nearly everything to get a time gate on every level, or to be cursed 15 times every run and meticulously wait for cooldowns on your turrets so you could clear out every stage
Hey Ryan, I bought Hades after watching you play and I agree with you. I think I played it for 6h straight on first install, great game. Great list as well thanks for all the content over the years.
For the ten people looking at the other side of the roguelike coin: S: Nethack | SLASH'EM A: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead | Brogue | Cogmind | Caves of Qud | Tales of Maj'Ejal B: Rogue | Tales of Middle Earth | UnReal World | Moria C: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup | HyperRogue | Sword of the Stars: The Pit | DoomRL D: ADOM (Don't kill me please) | Infra Arcana | 868-HACK | Dungeons of Dredmore
I know they're not really his thing but it does feel kind of odd to have a ranking of roguelikes and to not have even one traditional/'real' roguelike on the list, especially when you have something like Qud that is maybe on the verge of actually being somewhat well known (~2500 steam reviews compared to ADOM's ~800). I do think traditional roguelikes are not doing themselves any real favors by continuing to pretend like they are terminal shell games -- for instance, UIs that only make sense if you've been playing roguelikes for years or are a sysadmin. Qud and C:DDA with different control schemes could be massively popular. As it is now the bad keyboard-centric controls just end up turning off new players. By all means, offer multiple modes, but don't force players to learn a control scheme straight out of 1980s unix.
1 was good but being in 2d severely limited gameplay depth and replayability. 2 has potential to become really good, but they dropped it pretty early into its early access and the game is very empty as it stands. While RoR2 has made some good progress it’s still very much an early access game that lacks a lot of the pizazz that would let it make this list
@@allhailepicface123 Totally fair. I love both games to death, but the first Risk of Rain was pretty hit or miss as to whether any given person actually liked it, and 2 isn't even finished yet, so judging it now would be a little preemptive.
Isaac in S? That's interesting. It would have been in S for me if it were just Rebirth but honestly the DLC has ruined the game for me, especially AB+. Greedier is fucking obnoxious and unfun, and the item bloat is insane. Hopefully Revelations is amazing, they seem to be taking their time. The game holds a special place in my heart but the highest I'd put it is B WITH DLC.
@@shamblestheclown I put it in S also mostly because it has the best modding scene of the ones I played. Also it helps that most of the bs bosses are optional.
I feel like half the fun of Isaac is the game shoving bs into your face and then you have to say ‘alright, how do I combat this?’ And think of a way to get out of the situation you’re in
in all of my 115 hours of isaac, i have never been in a situation that i would call bs and only a couple of times was it unfair, am i playing it right or am i just good?
@@mylastaccountgotbanned2393 If you have not encountered any bs in Isaac yet, then you are lucky. I have 900 hours on it now and have encountered many bs/unfair situations
@@mylastaccountgotbanned2393 Maybe the many times I've died due to rooms I go into being flooded with enemies and bullets, or maybe the time I picked up soy milk and encountered duke of flies, who spat out flies faster than I could deal with them, making the fight literally impossible?
@@Sleepy-yp4wx neither of those are "bs", sure they may be hard but the first situation just get better, and the second it was your choice to grab soy milk which automatically makes it not bs but you also could have just dodged the flies and focused on the duke.
@@SteamrollerMike7 completely agree. Not top tier by any means but tons of replayability, and like NL said, decent co-op. Not to mention the ability to create your own build to go in with makes a ton of "classes" you can play as.
Well, for one thing he didn't understand the game AT ALL until like his last three runs. For another, he never tried mutators/custom characters, so has no idea that a solid chunk of the gameplay exists. He still hasn't played like 1/3 of the classes. Love NL, but his SoR series is about as incomplete as a couple dozen episode series on a roguelike can get. Let's not forget it took him 20+ episodes to try _talking_ rather than shooting/beating every problem in the face.
Coming with a big amount of Bias. Played Hades non-stop since may, the game was amazing back then and has been improving non-stop throughout early access. That game is S Tier right now and will be SS later down the line.
I was looking forward to it but it's on the epic store so I lost interest in it. It's a shame because from what I've seen it seems incredible. The fact that almost every time you die you get new dialogue is crazy.
@@liplaygames5591 The game has been on Steam since this month, mate. 10.12 or 11.12 or so. If you buy it until the second of january, you get Pyre on top of it!
Using only the games NL has on here S Tier - Slay the Spire, Isaac, Nuclear Throne A Tier - FTL, Darkest Dungeon, Hades B Tier - Enter the Gungeon, Spelunky, Rogue Legacy C Tier - Into the Breach, Streets of Rogue D Tier - Dicey Dungeons Haven't played Tier - Dead Cells, Children of Morta This hurt to put together. I love so many of these games. It felt like a crime to put Hades at the bottom of A tier, or Gungeon in B tier, but I just felt like I couldn't put every single game in S tier. Besides the ones I haven't played yet, Dicey Dungeons is the only one I just don't like. It didn't get me. Everything above it though stays installed on my computer at all times because I would go back and play them any time.
I think I would have put Darkest Dungeon in S tier, I just love the atmosphere of the game, the fact that it's longer but still has replayability, I adore personalizing my characters in the game and getting attached to them, then being depressed that they died, the style of the graphics is stunning, the soundtrack is amazing. Now, it can be a bit frustrating, as any game that has any degree of RNG in them but considering that it evokes way more emotion from me than any other game on this list, it's a strong S for me.
@@jigartalaviya2340 wow... i never thought someone hated turn based stuff(assuming you like rogue likes) since there are so many synergy possibilities in turn based games. I guess thats just me
What i learned more than anything is how much these games can change for the better via patches/updates, i couldnt imagine anyone putting Dead Cells under 'A', i just started playing the game a few weeks ago though, probably playing the most polished version.
I agree, Isaac needs a cleanup. Here's a start, lets delete every item, trinket and pill that creates liquids, causes farts or just gives money. Second, put all familiars and bomb modify items in a seperate item pool, not in treasure rooms. Increase gold chest and challenge room drops of these items. Third, give every character a gimmick to deal with activatable items: more options, backpack and 'forget me now' comes to mind.
Also since this almost feels like the culmination of a huge part of your channel over the years, I wanted to say thankyou. I'm not even sure exactly when I started watching although I know it was pre Isaac. I remember the first Dark Souls videos, the Spelunky. Of course the Isaac. I've had other channels I've come and gone from but only a select few that have endured that kind of time. So thanks for literally a decade of entertainment.
Ranking of Dead Cells irked me a lot, but you redeemed yourself with Gungeon. Also, you know in your heart of hearts that Isaac is B-tier. Vanilla Rebirth may belong in A. AB+ is a firm B.
I think the only change I personally would make, would be to put Hades in S tier. As someone who's been playing it since 2018 when it was originally released, I love that game to death, and not only has watching the improvements been incredible, I think out of all the games on the list, it has the most heart. I don't mean that in terms of gameplay, or in terms of the lifeblood the developers poured into the game, but in the sense that every character in that game makes you feel something. All of them are little quirks, and interactions that change based on every little aspect of your run, things you did in the pregame area, etc etc. There wasn't another game on the list that had a character in it that I love to death, but Megera and Dusa from Hades just make me smile. Also, as one of the only games still in production, I feel it has so much more to get, and the past two updates have added so much I can't imagine what else is in store for the next two before we likely get the 'complete release'.
